What Does a Celibate Priest Know About Sex?
The Princess, The Priest and the War for the Perfect Wedding Episode 4
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Episode #4 — What Does a Celibate Priest Know About Sex?
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We encourage you to email us questions, or record a short video with your question and send it to us. If we use your video in a future episode, we will give you a $25 Amazon gift certificate. Send in your questions to weddings@bustedhalo.com and hear Dr. Christine Whelan, author of the Pure Sex, Pure Love column go head to head with Father Eric Andrews, a Paulist priest with more than 15 years of wedding experience as they debate your questions: Why can’t you get married on the beach? Why is the priest being such a jerk? Why do we have to talk about sex during pre-Cana? And many more.
Dr. Christine B. Whelan, is an Iowa-based social historian, professor, journalist and author. She is the author of Marry Smart: The Intelligent Woman’s Guide to True Love, and Why Smart Men Marry Smart Women.
Fr. Eric Andrews CSP is the pastor of Blessed John XXIII parish, which serves as the Catholic campus ministry for the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. Prior to entering the priesthood, he worked for Jim Henson and the Muppets on a variety of television productions.
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Ok. That priest was so uncomfortable talking about sexuality, it was almost an argument for getting married by a judge.
Also, the spinning rings were really large and hypnotic. I was almost looking at the rings more than the people.
LOL, Stephanie! I was thinking the same things about those rings.
I actually thought Father Andrews handled those concerns quite well. Of course there is always more to be said on both sides but I think at least the basic points got out there.
As for this being an argument to get married by a judge, I should very much hope that an uncomfortable discussion with a priest over something absolutely integral to the health of any marriage (particularly in terms of communication) would not be enough to throw out the entire sacramentality of the marital covenant. Marriage IS a sacrament, and thus very much the Church’s business.
If folks think a celibate priest doesn’t know anything about sex, they should read up on JPII’s Theology of the Body. :)
I don’t know about other folks, but my now-spouse and I had a great time doing the FOCCUS assessment and talking things over with our priest – it was the pre-Cana retreat with other couples that was awkward, cheesy, misinformed, and poorly delivered. I’d talk with our priest about sex any day over that!
It’s all about facilitating communication?? Is he a priest or a marriage counselor?
I thought a priest’s job was to make sure the couple understand the beautiful teachings of the Church concerning sex and marriage. I’m with Mary K here, has Fr. Andrews even read JPII’s Theology of the Body?
Allison–
I’m sure Fr Eric has read Theology of the Body more times than you have. I’d also say that if you think that not establishing communication is not at the heart of a Catholic marriage than I think you should re-read JPII’s TOTB.
Fr. Eric was also specifically talking about the FOCCUS survey in this instance which highlights the differences in opinions about various things in one’s marriage. When he facilitates conversation using this tool the COUPLE will bring in God without him even trying in most instances, but in the act of facilitation using the church’s principles are assumed. To think otherwise, I fear is unfair to Fr Eric. As a quick example, an obvious question when a disagreement arises between a couple is “Do you pray together about this?” The couple needs to be able to talk openly about everything–there are no deals, no secrets in married life. That is what the survey does–it highlights where there might be a tendency to hold back from your partner, which TOTB teaches is always wrong.
So Fr Eric, keep up the good work.
Agree with Boomer on this one. Fr. Eric brought up four areas of intimacy that each need to be maintained in a marriage and that already is more than what most couples would probably expect to discuss with their priest. Among these is spiritual intimacy, which necessarily must involve some theological discourse to ensure the couple are on the same wavelength in regard to marital/sexual beliefs and responsibility within a Catholic.
‘union’
from what i’ve been reading lately they have way too much “hands on” experience.
Then stop reading and get yourself to a church or Paulist Centre to meet real priests yourself.
These are real men, the vast majority of which are holy and loving in all the ways unique to the special vocation God has called them to. If you do not share this belief or are simply too lazy too seek the true dignity and worth of these men (or any others more easily judged from the comfort of your desk chair), then don’t cowardly post anonymous shots that you wouldn’t have the guts or argumentative foundation to say to their faces.
Peace,
Stu
Stu,
I seem to have touched a nerve.
Where was your rage when the “other priests” did those despicable things to children which has done so much damage to the “real priests” you rush to defend?
Where is your rage against the Church hierarchy that hide the “other priests” allowing them to commit further atrocities against children?
Call me a coward? You, Sir, are a hypocrite.
My rage is very much there for that cause moose, more than I could possibly describe, but why you ‘touched a nerve’ is because you are guilty of the same problem you just mentioned; damaging the ministry, identity, and reputation of every priest whom you know nothing about. It’s a generalization, and though I understand and acknowledge the place where it is coming from, I simply won’t stand to have these judgements made on an entire body of people whether they be priests or otherwise.
You ‘touched a nerve’ because I am Catholic, I love the Church, and when you attack or make hurtful generalizations of our priests, you are attacking a member of our family.
I ask only for your rage to be directed at the right people. Write the Bishops responsible, write their lawyers, make petitions and protest. You can rest assured I’ll be right there with you.
Stu,
Looks like your “rage” about sexual abuse by the clergy must have slipped your mind when writing your earlier message.
Unfortunately, what I originally said is sadly true and painful especially for those “real priests” who have devoted their lives to their ministry.
However, you are right when you say that the Church is like our family. And when you ignore illness in the family you make the situation worst, not better.
Honestly, I wish that your blanket defense of the priest hood was justified. It is not.
p.s. I find your claim that I know nothing about the priesthood somewhat comical
I’m not quite sure you’re making the point you want to make here moose and out of respect for the mission and purpose of Busted Halo I would say this is not the right place to do it either. Feel free to e-mail me at linus.wool@hotmail.com if you object to my taking issue with your comments.
Stu,
You expressed your disagreement with my comments which you have every right to do.
I’m sure that anyone reading this exchange will get my point whether they agree or disagree.
Now you say that “out of respect for the mission and purpose of Busted Halo I would say this is not the right place…”
I read many comments in Busted Halo where people agree/disagree with other comments. This is called an exchange of ideas!
You seem to be just one contradiction after another.
In the spirit of this festive day, my final comment to you is adiós
It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing moose, I gave you my e-mail so I’m obviously happy to continue the discussion in a place that is not intended for the commentary on this. What I object to is the insult and uncalled for inference that all priests are pedophiles. In each and every instance moose I object to that kind of anti-clericalist garbage in a big way, and I hope every Catholic starts to do the same. Unless you think you are doing more to solve the problems of this abhorrent crisis, leave alone those who have stepped up to the plate and decided it was time to change the face of the priesthood in America.
Adios
“… commentary on this video.”
First, a celibate priest knows diddly squat about sex. I can have read all the books on how to drive a car, have memorized all the road signs, and have talked to the best drivers and mechanics in the world, but unless I actually drive a car all I have is abstract and not practical knowledge. And without practical knowledge I can’t teach someone else how to drive a car. The priest lacks in the essential practical application of his knowledge. Second, when a disagreement arises between a couple, “Do you pray about this together” is used as a cop out. A couple should be able to come up with a solution and then pray about their solution.
“Priests are teaching married couples how to have sex?” Ken, your driving a car analogy doesn’t work. Do you have to have a great marriage to be a successful marriage councilor? No. They are not talking about the mechanics of sex but how we relate to each other sexually. We are all sexual people, even priests. You don’t have to be having sex to be able to talk and give advice about sexuality.
Mary – Neither was I referring to how to have sex. My example was to illustrate the difference between the abstract and the practical. I agree the priest was talking about communication and how we relate to each other sexually. And all he is doing is repeating something he read in a book. Big deal. Anyone can do the same; just get the book and read it. So just what unique contribution can a celibate priest can make to the discussion? Nothing. Do you have to have a great marriage to be a successful marriage councilor? You said, “No.” I agree, but priests are not even married – they have no marriage.
Ken–
The Church is the bride of Christ. A priest is married, in a sense, to Christ.
When it comes to having sex, you don’t need to be taught by someone experienced. Your body knows what to do–God made us that way. Teaching a couple how to do what their bodies already know how to do is not priest’s intention. Not everyone has the privilege of being able to sit down and read all these books and learn all that they ought to know about tying sex into their marriage, whereas it is the priest’s job to teach his parishioners about the Catholic faith. He has to make sure that they understand what the Church teaches and can communicate with each other based on that.
And the time to pray is not, as you say, after a couple has decided on some solution. The most important time is before the solution, so that they actually form the right one.
Boomer – I agree that communication is very important part of marriage. But if the communication going on about sex in marriage is “What kind of birth control do you want to use?” “I’m good with the pill.” then the priest is not doing his job. A secular marriage counselor can aid couples to have that basic communication. Fr. Eric says, “I’m there to make sure the couple is able to talk to each other about all kinds of things – finances, in-laws… what I’m really trying to do is help them communicate honestly and openly… that’s my job, to facilitate.” A priest’s top priority should be to a pastor, to guide the souls of his parishioners (and their future children) to heaven. If a couple is communicating well but they’re leading themselves away from the path to heaven, then it doesn’t matter if they’re communicating well.
Fr. Eric also says “Sometimes the sex is real good while they’re engaged.” WHAT!? Of all people, how can a Catholic priest call pre-marital sex “good.” Pleasurable, consentual, sure… but not good! Not moral and not holy.
Sorry – I hit “enter” before I meant to. Obviously this topic has hit a nerve with me and I could go on and on. My marriage prep sessions with our priest were excellent… first we talked about boundaries (physical and emotional) of an engaged relationship, then NFP and good reasons for postponing pregnancies in marriage, then some hints and tips that he’s picked up from older couples on how to raise holy children. These are issues for a priest to talk about… if he doesn’t who will? Not the secular marriage counselor that talks to the couple 10 years down the road when they’re thinking about divorce. These is probably the priest’s only shot to talk one-on-two with most of these marriage prep couples, don’t waste it with fluffy stuff.
Perhaps Fr. Eric has read TOB and does talk about these sorts of important specifically-Catholic issues, but he certainly did not give any hint of that in this video.
Alison – Are the marriage prep sessions with the priest open to all (singles, couples beginning a dating relationship, etc) or are they restricted to those who have decided to get married? If not, why?
Bill – I don’t understand the point of your question. Of course the marriage prep sessions are for couples that are engaged to be married. I’m sure our priest talks about these issues (boundaries, NFP, parenting) with those looking to date or get engaged, but they’re even more important to discuss with a couple that is already engaged. Are you suggesting that only the issue of healthy communication is something that should be talked about with engaged couples? Honestly, that topic seems to be even more important to single people and dating couples. If you haven’t learned to communicate by the time you’re engaged, what are you doing being engaged.
Stuart/Alison, great comments.
Don’t forget that priests hear confessions and are privy to hearing the ‘mistakes’ that married couples have made in their relationships. Just with that background alone, not to mention their education in theology and phycology, I would think (no I DO think) that priest can be an excellent resource for advice on all aspects of marriage, sex included.
Greg- read “Gail’s” May 23 comment posted in Saying Yes to Sex. She says that Catholic men are clueless about sex.
It seems like some people are missing the point of this video (and a lot of others). In and of themselves, they are intended to be discussion starters, and while they are ‘starting discussions’ those discussions are “he should have mentioned such & such” or “he doesn’t know squat about x, y or z” or “because he’s a priest he must ____”
The title of this video was “What does a celibate priest know about sex?”. I think the video answered that question.
Furthermore:
moose: completely off topic
Stephanie: he didn’t seem uncomftable at all to me
Ken: I’ve never heard of any priest attempting to ‘teach a couple how to have sex’… that seems like the work of a sex therapist or perhaps a gynecologist. it seems to me that Fr. Eric is trying to emphasize that couples tend to avoid talking about hard stuff. that’s a fact of being newly married and/or immature. a priest brings up the topic of sexuality within marriage prepartion because its 1)necessary 2)relevant to encourage couples to be open to talking about all important issues of married life including sex.
Greg- I agree completely and would even suggest that from what a priest hears in the confessional he gains superior knowledge about how sex is relevant, experienced, and misused in marriage. Very important to be able to discuss/have knowledge of these issues.
Cristy,
Of course, what was I thinking of?
Please continue to dream on while the Church hierarchy is populated by sexual deviates. The Church is morally bankrupt until true reform occurs. See below.
TORONTO ‚Äì A Roman Catholic bishop who oversaw his diocese’s settlement with victims of sex abuse is facing child pornography charges, police said Wednesday.
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Bishop Raymond Lahey had his computer and other unspecified media seized after authorities found something troubling during a random search of his laptop computer at Ottawa’s airport on Sept. 15, Ottawa Constable J.P. Vincelette said.
Police charged Lahey, 69, with possession and importation of child pornography 10 days later. A warrant has been issued for his arrest and police are still looking for the bishop, Vincelette said.
People, if you are really that uptight about virgin, celibate priests (fyi, I know many priests who are widowed), go see a married permanent deacon for advice. Or go see a Byzantine Rite Catholic priest who is married. Why do people make mountains out of molehills?
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