Men can feel the same temptations to stick with “playing house”, even when not living together, under the presumption that “it’ll work out” just to avoid being single.

I am in college and this helped me know why people shouldn’t live 2gether before marriage. ik premarital sex is a sin and I believe sex is for marriage but i haven’t been told about y a couple has 2 be married before they live with each other.

Thank you for writing this, y Christine B. Whelan

(PS: i grow up and still am Catholic)

I think there is some confusion on what the church teaches about judging. We judge the sin not the sinner. We are not to condemn anyone. It does say in Scripture that we are to go to one if they are doing something that is endangering their soul. If we are not successful, then we are to go the elders of the church.

In 1965, after the close of Vatican II and the legalization of contraceptives, the same thing happened. Priests and bishops who thought that the church was going to change her stance on contracepting, began to tell the faithful that it would be between their conscience and God. If you read the documents of Vatican II, they do seem like you could take it anyway in one place and then later in the doc they reinterate the teaching. But it has caused major confusion and in 1968 Pope Paul VI released Humanae Vitae.Read Article 17 – he stated what he thought would happen – he was dead on.

And of course, there is still the issue with being young, and thinking the church should not tell us what to do and the mentality that the popes could not possibly know about relationships. I suggest those who think that way should read some enecyclicals and John Paul II’s Theology of the Body – these holy men do understand – sometimes it is easier to claim they do not so we can keep doing what we know deep in our hearts is wrong. It’s human nature.

I think the article should just have been a little more clear about who the target audience is. I don’t believe this is an article for people 1) who are already strong in their faith and conviction in God, 2) who are considering taking that next step of moving in, but haven’t yet, or 3) who are looking for advice from the church about premarital “codes of conduct.” This was an article for you if YOU are the one already living this way. It has some tips on how to get your relationship into, perhaps not the “best,” but a better standing starting from where you are already. It’s also for you if you are not living this way, but KNOW someone who is, maybe you could use these suggestions to help them start in the right direction.

Let me get back to the article though. Without going into the rules about what the Bible says we can and cannot judge, the most upsetting thing I found about this article is that in its effort to be non-judgmental, it MAY lead to people thinking the church is now okay with co-habitation (or it is at least starting to change its mind). This was shown when one commenter said, “I especially like the ‘wait three years’ part.” No, the article did not say to wait 3 years. I believe it was trying to say, “For those that are already in this situation, and have been so for 3 or more years, you REALLY need to make a decision.” Not that you need 3 years to make that decision, but if you’ve already spent those 3 years, that is more than enough time to figure it out.

Judging on the responses to this article, as an authors of a young adult study on God’s plan for human love, we would have to surmise a little of both. There are clearly two camps. So what are we suppose to do? Do we give you the truth and risk you walking away because you are not ready for the truth or do we water it down, allowing you to believe something that is not what the Church teaches?

You see, we left you this legacy – sex out side of marriage, contraception, living together. We are the generation of the 60, 70 and 80’s. We justified our behavior by attacking the very Church that truly has the answers. We just didn’t know it until we were in our 40’s. We had hoped that we could give you the wisdom of others who had lived through it. We had hoped to give you a gift so that you did not have to experience the pain, separation and grief that we experienced after our decisions. You see, believe it or not – what you do now has direct ramifications on society and the generation that comes after you.

You are living in a society that has split Reason and Truth – won’t you be the generation that puts them back together and become a light on the hill for the future generation?

Peggy and Marci (Authors of Genesis and Beyond: the Divine Plan for Human Love. http://www.genesisandbeyond.com)

“Not 100 in the United States hate the Roman Catholic Church, but millions hate what they mistakenly think the Roman Catholic Church is.” Archbishop Sheen
“The Catholic Church is the work of Divine Providence, achieved through the prophecies of the prophets, through the Incarnation and the teaching of Christ, through the journeys of the Apostles, through the suffering, the crosses, the blood and death of the martyrs, through the admirable lives of the saints…When, then, we see so much help on God’s part, so much progress and so much fruit, shall we hesitate to bury ourselves in the bosom of the Church? For starting from the apostolic chair down through successions of bishops, even unto the open confession of all mankind, it has possessed the crown of teaching authority.”
The Advantage of Believing 35
St. Augustine (392 AD)
Here is some more food for thought:
Natural Law
The moral law is the work of divine Wisdom. Its biblical meaning can be defined as fatherly instruction, God’s pedagogy. It prescribes for man the ways, the rules of conduct that lead to the promised beatitude; it proscribes the ways of evil which turn him away from God and his love. It is at once firm in its precepts and, in its promises, worthy of love.
Law is a rule of conduct enacted by competent authority for the sake of the common good. The moral law presupposes the rational order, established among creatures for their good and to serve their final end, by the power, wisdom, and goodness of the Creator. All law finds its first and ultimate truth in the eternal law. Law is declared and established by reason as a participation in the providence of the living God, Creator and Redeemer of all. “Such an ordinance of reason is what one calls law.”2
There are different expressions of the moral law, all of them interrelated: eternal law – the source, in God, of all law; natural law; revealed law, comprising the Old Law and the New Law, or Law of the Gospel; finally, civil and ecclesiastical laws.
The moral law finds its fullness and its unity in Christ. Jesus Christ is in person the way of perfection. He is the end of the law, for only he teaches and bestows the justice of God: “For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.”4
Man participates in the wisdom and goodness of the Creator who gives him mastery over his acts and the ability to govern himself with a view to the true and the good. The natural law expresses the original moral sense which enables man to discern by reason the good and the evil, the truth and the lie:
The “divine and natural” law6 shows man the way to follow so as to practice the good and attain his end. The natural law states the first and essential precepts which govern the moral life. It hinges upon the desire for God and submission to him, who is the source and judge of all that is good, as well as upon the sense that the other is one’s equal. Its principal precepts are expressed in the Decalogue. This law is called “natural,” not in reference to the nature of irrational beings, but because reason which decrees it properly belongs to human nature:
The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties:
Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures, the natural law remains as a rule that binds men among themselves and imposes on them, beyond the inevitable differences, common principles.
The natural law is immutable and permanent throughout the variations of history;10 it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies:
The natural law, the Creator’s very good work, provides the solid foundation on which man can build the structure of moral rules to guide his choices. It also provides the indispensable moral foundation for building the human community. Finally, it provides the necessary basis for the civil law with which it is connected, whether by a reflection that draws conclusions from its principles, or by additions of a positive and juridical nature.
The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known “by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error.”12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.

Oh and Ann, great point about these rules and stipulations all being made and put forth by men. I couldn’t agree more with you, they were, are and always will be a way of keeping women under the thumb of a “superior” male figure (By the way I am a married man). And Annie, in response to your comment about women postponing marriage just as much as men do. I think you’re right. My ex-fiance was the reason her and I never got married. She held off for almost 5 years before she finally left. I kept trying to set a date and get the ball rolling on the wedding but she kept pushing it back and back.

We should use our brains for something more than holding our ears apart and figure out how this whole faith and bible thing apply to our personal lives. Don’t just base it all around what the “Holy Church” says and tells us to do, don’t be like the generations of pre-Vatican 2. Think for yourselves. Question the church and your faith and you will find the answers typically point you towards God and a deeper understanding and a more loving relationship with Him. The church has it’s place within your faith absolutely, but don’t let it be the beginning, middle and end to it. God wants a relationship with you as a person, as an individual. He doesn’t want a relationship with an institution, after all He created people, not buildings!!!

Happy Lent everyone!

According to my own young adult children and nieces and nephews, the women these days are as likely as the men to want to delay marriage. It isn’t until late 20s, 30ish that both seem to start to consider the idea of marriage seriously.

Read Nevis’s pos

My point is that for those of you pointing out the wrongs in what people do: go find something else to do with your time. God gave us free choice didn’t he? I agree with all of those who say that we need a practical way of guiding people in this world. Saying “Or you’ll burn in hell” just doesn’t cut it. Saying “They’ll call you a whore” just doesn’t cut it. Who sets the standards anyway? Is it you or God? Even God loved Mary M didn’t he? We are all sinners, so are we all going to hell? If you sin and repent every day do you go to heaven? WHO KNOWS?! You just have to believe what you believe and give people the right to live as they choose. Period.

I am a male who lived with his ex-fiance for 4 and a half years. I do not feel that my decision to live with her and have pre-marital sex with her is going to cause me to spend eternity in hell. Instead I believe that God knows the intentions of my heart and has forgiven me for my indiscretions. He loves me no matter what even if I chose to commit “adultery” as the church would have us believe the term. Someone else on here put it really quite nicely, if the people living in cohabitating rlationships without marriage do not practice their faith (as much as others might think they should)than what makes us think for a second that our selfrighteous passing of judgement on them is going to make a difference. Rather shouldn’t we be more like Christ and open our hearts and minds to these people. After all wasn’t it Christ who called prostitutes, murderers and tax collectors to sit at the table with Him at the last supper? I know it wasn’t the Priests and Pharisees that were with Him when He gave His flesh and blood to the apostles.

And as for those of you who don’t think [assing judgement is a bad thing, IT IS! The term judgement implies certain conditions of punishment. For example a “Mortal Sin” means you are going to hell. These are terms that were made up by an archaic ruling church to control the people. We do not get to pass this kind of judgement, this is left to God and God alone. You can throw all the scripture verses you want at me about how it says we are allowed to do this, but reada little further past those individual verses and take them in proper context, don’t just use them for your own self serving purposes. In most cases you will find that these passages call us to love and accept our fellow man rather than condemning them.

In closing I would encourage everyone to truly look within themselves and discover what is wrong in your own life before going around passing judgement on others. As the bible says “Take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck of saw dust from your neighbours eye”. Leave the judging to God and just try to live your own lives as best you can.

And when it was all over, all that wasted time, all that mortal sin I heaped on myself and on him hoping for something different – that HURT.

My experience has taught me that young men will put off real commitment for as long as possible. It’s a lack of moral fiber and I don’t know if it’s encouraged by modern society, if they are just biologically inclined to do this, or what the problem is. But as women we have to STEP UP. As this author implies. We have to be the ones to bring up the scary lifesized issues and start a real dialogue about commitment. And be the ones to be strong enough to walk out the door when we are offered only vague promises and half-steps.

# 1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
# Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
# John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
# Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness…
# Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ…
# Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]…

As Christians, we are not to judge others in presuming guilt/innocence before God and whether they are going to heaven or hell. However, we ARE called to identify sin and encourage sinners to change their ways in all kindness and charity.