Why wood anyone want to show their possession on television is beyond me. Yes, please let’s get pictures and specially video because everyone needs to see another person suffering and much more.

I guess the Catholic boat is missing the boat on this one “I’m Not Rob” because guess what they are not putting it on YouTube and you know what YouTube is one of the best ways to create sensationalism and get money. So yes, I wonder why the Church is not doing it?

I know if I witnessed half the phenomenon possessions are supposed to induce I would be running for the nearest recording device. Additionally I will take one of Rubadubadoobag’s comments further I would consider it wrong, or sinful if you prefer, to have some sort of evidence for the devil’s existence and not share it with the world. What would be the motivation for such action (or inaction?) That would be like you telling me there was a dangerous lunatic in my house and then refusing to tell me where he is located. Those of us who question are not “lost” “damned” or any other such thing, we are rational people who would like solid evidence for things before we engage in actions or inactions that have the potential to harm others.

But that said, I suspect that if – as Father Thomas claims – possessed people are really ‘taking on the appearance of a serpent’ at the drop of a hat, the natural response would be to film this right away and putting it on YouTube so as to show people the reality of the Devil, and therefore of God. After all, realising that the Devil exists through the inexplicable powers of the demonically possessed is exactly how the protaganist in the movie based on Father Thomas comes to have faith himself. If the Devil’s greatest trick was convincing mankind he didnt exist, it should pretty much be a true priest’s moral duty to undo this deception if he can. That should be a much greater imperative than ‘preaching to the choir’ here, so to speak.

I wont cast any aspersions on Father Thomas’s integrity or what he may or may not have seen, but I would urge him (and I think anyone who might know him should to) to film and release footage of people ‘taking on the appearance of serpents’ if he sees this on a regular basis. I think there’s little doubt that he would save a lot of people’s souls if he did so.

Judith, I am sorry to say, however, that I am in total agreement with Steve on this one. It is sad when science is used to dissuade the faithful. Don’t get me wrong, for the most part, I would agree that most “possessions” are medical in nature. But to say that science has proven this is going a bit to far. Especially when you openly admit that you had many occurrences where the final solution was to institutionalize the individual. Institutionalization is not a cure, it is simply dealing with what you consider to be a lost cause.

There is no science that can prove faith wrong. Science may prove certain beliefs wrong, but certainly not faith. Science may prove that certain parts of the Bible were driven from natural causes, but that does not mean there is no God. Let’s take Darwin for instance. How is evolution proof that God does not exist? It may mean that our world is older than 6,000 years, but it certainly does not prove there is no God. Regardless of when or how we came, we came. So we evolved, well who created the amoeba? So there was a big bang, well who lit it? No science will explain the inception of all. From every found end, there will always be a preceding beginning.

Personally, I don’t take every word of the Bible as fact. But that does not mean I do not have faith.

Now Judith, Science without a doubt is necessary for we as a people to survive and advance. And perhaps faith does not belong in your profession. I would almost agree that it does not for the most part. But to claim proof of a Godless existence through science is impossible, and just as much based on your faith that God does not exist as the faith others have that God does exist.

I would like to point out that according to Fr. Gabriele Amorth, “An Exorcist Tells His Story”, and other exorcist accounts that, as rare as full possession is, it often results in the victim spitting up various objects including nails, glass, and pieces of wire among other things. It also has resulted in levitation. Demons produce these phenomena in direct response to the prayers of the formal exorcism rite, of which Fr. Amorth only uses the pre-Vatican II Latin form. These phenomena are certainly not produced by mere psychiatric illness. Moreover, in cases where someone is possessed, but treated by heavy medications, the less dramatic demonic physical effects are often suppressed. I would not expect medical treatment to produce extraordinary effects because it does not cause pain to the demons.

From personal experience i can tell you I am a devout Traditionalist Catholic who studied to be a priest for 4 years. Previous to a conversion I was once very immersed in music subculture. I had contact with witches and warlocks and I can tell you that I witnessed many things from these people that cannot be explained, including objects moving. I thank God I removed myself from that world and never participated in occult practices.

Pax Sapientiae. Sit nomen Domini benedictum.

As I said before, I don’t doubt that mental illness is a major factor in all but a few possession cases. However, there are still instances that are unresolved. Assuming that someday we’ll just advance as a species and figure everything out is just as much a statement of faith as the belief in the immaterial. To me it all comes down to creation: I just cannot imagine how something is made from nothing and how movement comes from non-movement.

I guess I am in no way understanding how religion, or even just the belief in the immaterial, is somehow anti-science (particularly with regards to the mental health profession). I’ve always approached any presumed conflict between the two as either the scientific knowledge or one’s religious beliefs as being incomplete, keeping in mind that perfection in either is impossible.

Your post is the precise reason why, before the Church attempt an exorcism, extensive psychological testing and examination should, and is, done. However, to rule out the possibility of possession all together is wrong from a Christian perspective. It is true that science has not proven possession – I don’t expect it to. However, it has not proven possession impossible either because the belief in the immaterial is not a question of science, but of faith. “Demonic possession exists” is not a testable hypothesis because all that can be tested is whether a particular instance of supposed possession can be explained by natural means.

Reason can take us to the very edge of belief, but faith is needed for the final step.