Busted Halo
googling god
The Busted Halo Question Box
Ask our spiritual experts virtually anything!
This is the place where you can ask all of those burning questions that you wouldn't dare ask in person. We will post questions here (using your byline only with permission); we guarantee an answer to everyone.

Have your own question? Then pitch it to us!

Caitlin Kennell Kim
Mary
Fr. Rick Malloy, SJ
General Questions
Fr. Tom Ryan, CSP
Ecumenical, Interfaith
Neela Kale
Culture, Moral Theology
Ann Naffziger, M.A., M.Div.
Bible
Mike Hayes
Swingman/Editor
 
facebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestlinkedintumblrmailfacebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestlinkedintumblrmail
Our readers asked:

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?

Ann Naffziger Answers:

(CNS photo courtesy Catholic Communication Campaign)

If you were to read all four gospels thoroughly in search of Jesus’ teachings on homosexuality it would be a futile endeavor. Not only would you come to the end of the gospels without finding anything attributed to Jesus on the subject, you wouldn’t even find a single reference to the issue in any context.

In fact, there are only a handful of references to homosexuality in the entire Bible, but they are found in the Old Testament and Paul’s writings. (To put it in perspective, while there are only seven references to homosexuality, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of references to economic justice and the laws governing the accumulation and distribution of wealth.)

Jesus’ silence on the subject suggests that an issue which can be controversial and/or fraught with emotion these days was simply not a central issue in his lifetime 2,000 years ago in the land of Palestine. The fact that he didn’t address this issue leaves us all to ponder what he might say were he here today.

 
facebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestlinkedintumblrmailfacebooktwittergoogle_plusredditpinterestlinkedintumblrmail
The Author : Ann Naffziger
Ann Naffziger is a scripture instructor and spiritual director in the San Francisco Bay area. She has has written articles on spirituality and theology for various national magazines and edited several books on the Hebrew Scriptures.
See more articles by (112).
Please note that the editorial staff reserves the right to not post comments it deems to be inappropriate and/or malicious in nature, as well as edit comments for length, clarity and fairness.
  • DrWayner

    I am no Bible expert, but I do know what I believe. I was born into a
    staunch Catholic family and went all the way through Confirmation
    classes. That was the end of my Catholicism, not because of any
    epiphany or insight, but because it was hollow and ritualistic without
    any personal relationship with God or Jesus Christ. The road from there
    was long and spiritually sporadic, but I knew God was there and that He
    loved me no matter what I did. Since my rebellious days I have gone to
    Baptist Churches, Pentecostal Churches, Lutheran Churches, Methodist
    Churches and Non Denominational Churches. I studied in their Bible
    classes, took independent Bible Study Fellowship classes and graduated
    from a Christian University (Business Degree not Theology). I have read
    the Bible and I read a daily word with thoughts attached every day. I
    pray. I pray for forgiveness, for understanding, for my family and
    friends, for our government and world leaders and I give thanks and am
    thankful every day for everything, because God has provided everything
    for me and for you. Those who do not believe in God, Jesus or the Bible
    do not understand these things. As someone said before me here, Jesus
    inspired the Old Testament as well as the New because He is God. Jesus
    is The Word of God. One can nit pic, take out of context, deny,
    rationalize and or make up their own interpretations of what Jesus said
    or did not say, however the bottom line is this: The Old Testament is
    the Law sent down for man to follow which man repeatedly could not do so
    Jesus came to make the final sacrifice to atone for man’s sinful nature
    once and for all time. To say that Jesus did not imply anything about
    “men lying with men” is preposterous and if you have the Spirit of God
    within you then you know I speak the truth. It saddens me to see The
    Pope degrade Christianity and it also makes me believe that prophecy is
    to be fulfilled very soon. Jesus is not your reason to sin, He is your
    reason to stop sinning. I hope the Holy Spirit works through these
    words to help you understand that God requires us to be holy, to rebuke
    and turn away from our sin and to know that the Blood of Christ was the
    most precious asset God has and he gave it to us. I think that deserves
    honor, love and obedience to understanding what God has asked us to do.
    One last thought, to rebuke a brother or sister is not to judge them,
    but to warn them that God will not tolerate blatant disobedience without
    trying to turn from ones sin. May God Bless each and everyone who
    reads this.

  • K Rob

    Totally agree with these words. Yes, God made rules and gave people a path to heaven. However, they did not follow those words (hence Noah and humanity reborn). Later, He brought us Jesus, who died for the sins that man (once again) could not overcome. It was then that Jesus asked Him to forgive us, for we knew not what we did. We judged, we killed, we did not understand that we cannot be perfect, for no one knows what perfect truly is. Now it seems we are (once again) judging people based on who they lay with. Just take a step back and know that gay people existed before Christ. When He died, he represented all of us…

  • Tamlew

    yeah.. again, the entire Bible is the WORD of Jesus who is God ..not just the red letters ..read Romans 1 (the whole chapter) that’ll help you out..

  • Edem

    Wow Eddie that’s so wrong….God knows the end from the beginning so don’t try to help God. Have you checked that there’s is more death than birth? Is homosexuality an alternative birth control method? Why do you want a sexual relationship with a fellow man? I wonder why this contribution was detected as spam. Is it the site administrator or a fellow user?

  • Thomas Maher

    The author is just truly wrong and subject to a harder road when judgment Day comes. Just another blind guide. Matthew 5:19 says it all as well as remembering that the term “homosexuality” is a modern construct (1940′s). When Jesus said that He had NOT come to abolish the ‘Law and the Prophets’ (Euphemism for the Hebrew Scriptures), but to fulfill, the fact that he did not at that time explicitly exclude male on male sexual behavior or female on female sexual behavior tells us VERY CLEARLY that those sins (sexual immorality in His own words) are prohibited. Very weak argument from a false prophet. You can search the Gospels to find that Jesus never spoke about against polluting our environment or Global Climate change or a host of other issues. Our stewardship of the world is quite clear in Genesis. Jesus includes that in His fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets.

    • Bella

      Well, if not one iota shall pass away, I hope you’re still rigidly obeying every command given throughout the Pentateuch.

      But I’d be willing to bet you aren’t!

      • Thomas Maher

        I certainly am trying to the best of my ability, but I confess my sins frequently. Jesus does not address “homosexuality” by the term but stresses that “all sexual immorality and licentiousness, greed murder are what defile and come from the hardened human heart.

      • Bella

        I doubt very much that you’re trying to obey every command given in the Pentateuch. Have you played football? Sorry, you’ve disobeyed a command. Have you worn clothes made of two different fibres? Sorry, you’ve disobeyed again. Have you cut your hair or trimmed your beard? Sorry, more disobedience. Have you been to church on the same day you’ve had sex? Sorry, that’s out too. Have you ever not paid an employee on the day they worked? Sorry, more disobedience. And that’s just a very few of the commands out of hundreds, if not thousands.

        Jesus may not mention the term, but that doesn’t mean the concept was unknown. In fact, the Greeks had several words for different types of homosexual relationships. The terms used in the bible are the ones for exploitative or violent homosexual acts, not loving homosexual relationships, and I certainly agree that exploitative and violent relationships are immoral and should be condemned. But that’s a whole lot different to assuming that all homosexual relationships are immoral.

      • amercrutio

        You rationalize to support abnormal behavior. Children can only be indoctrinated into abnormal behavior by adults they trust. That is child abuse.

      • amercrutio

        Who thinks they should obey documents from a culture 2,000 years old? A culture that is completely different than today’s culture. Why do you think this makes sense?

      • Bella

        I don’t. I’m not the one arguing that we should.

      • amercrutio

        I don’t think your comments help anyone or make anything clearer. Just verbiage for its own sake.

      • Tamlew

        because reality is not subject to popular vote

      • Syn Holliday

        The Bible, a good guide book for our troops. “Kill every male among the children, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” Numbers 31:17-18

      • Tamlew

        Context is everything…

      • Syn Holliday

        If you don’t mind, please explain the context of this verse, what does it really intend to say.

      • Tamlew

        If you want to know the context you read the whole chapter and often times the whole book. To ask me to explain it would require you to be very very lazy just read… if after you have read it you have questions that’s another thing

      • Bella

        EXACTLY!! Our context now is different from their context then, and so the way we understand and apply the instructions given must also be different.

      • Tamlew

        Seriously?! What is important about the context of a text is the context in which it was WRITTEN…. But you are trying to say that the importance of context is the context in which a text is interpreted…. Since you obviously care so little about what God thinks why don’t you just go have sex with anything, anywhere, anytime and leave God out of it? He clearly had and has an opinion on the subject. It has much to do with the law of diminishing returns and preserving the blood line, but you don’t care. The heart will ALWAYS make a convert of the mind. But this lame attempt to make God appear approving of your perversion is beyond foolishness…. If you torture the scriptures long enough you can make them say anything.

      • Bella

        My “perversion”? Have you not yet grasped that I’m straight? And as far as caring about what God thinks – I do. I just have a very different perspective from yours on what God thinks, and it’s pure arrogance for you to say that your perspective is right and mine’s wrong. You (no more than any other human) don’t have a monopoly on understanding the divine.

        *Both* contexts are important – that of the time of writing and that of the time of interpreting. Without understanding both contexts, it’s impossible to grasp how texts should be interpreted in a different time/culture in order to arrive at a parallel understanding.

        Incidentally, I agree with you on this: “It has much to do with the law of diminishing returns and preserving the blood line”. That’s exactly why I support gay marriage – because bloodlines are not dependent on marriage in OUR context, and population growth is no longer a desirable thing. What we do know of God is that he is first and foremost the epitome of Love. And furthermore, in OUR context we believe that the primary criterion for marriage is a relationship which best exemplifies God’s selfless love (rather than an avenue for legitimate procreation or appropriate transmission of inheritance). That foremost purpose is perfectly well served by any loving relationship, no matter what the genders of the parties involved. (And, obviously, is not served by your suggestion of “sex with anything, anywhere, anytime”.)

      • Tamlew

        so is it pure arrogance for God to say he has an opinion different than yours? because I’m pretty sure he did. and what you are wanting to redefine as love is merely lust.

      • Bella

        Your first question is meaningless as a response to what I said. You’re “pretty sure he did” – but that’s exactly my point. Neither you nor I can definitively claim to know the mind of God. We can only do our best to understand what characterises God, and how those characteristics might best be lived out in our own time and culture. Have you ever sung all the verses of “All Things Bright and Beautiful”? – including the one that goes:
        “The rich man in his castle
        The poor man at his gate
        God made them high and lowly
        And ordered their estate”?
        For millennia, people believed that class was God-ordained, that the bible showed it to be so, and that it was part of God’s loving plan for the world. But we don’t believe that now, nor do we argue the bible says it. Has God changed? No. Has the definition of Love changed? Again no. All that’s changed is the cultural framework within which the text is interpreted.

        As for love and lust – no, I’m not mixing them up. Love is essentially selfless, whereas lust is about satisfying bodily desires. An ideal marriage combines both, of course, in mutually-satisfying giving and receiving. But there is nothing which precludes that in two partners of the same gender. The only logical arguments against homosexual partnerships are those of procreation and power, neither of which are considered necessary (and in the case of power, not even desirable) in a modern marriage. And whatever God is, he must be logical and reasonable, since he certainly isn’t capricious and uncertain.

      • Tamlew

        love and lust are dialectically opposing realities. it’s heartbreaking to me that you think both are aspects of a good marriage…

      • Bella

        Actually, no they’re not. Lust simply means strong sexual desire. (Eros, in Greek.) It comes from the Germanic word meaning pleasure/delight. It is, in fact, exactly what the panegyrics of Song of Songs describe (albeit in somewhat culturally-influenced terms; I doubt any beloved these days would appreciate being told things like “your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn, coming up from the washing”!). If that pleasure is not part of your concept of marriage then I hope you never get married, because you’d be seriously shortchanging your spouse.

        The inference of lust as depraved desire is a very Victorian one, but it’s not etymologically sound.

      • Tamlew

        Because God never changes. He is the same yesterday today and forever.

      • Syn Holliday

        Then how can God ever be sorry for something He did? If He is all-knowing and is completely aware of His every act with hindsight, how is it possible? The Bible mentions His regrets. Just one example: Samuel 15:35. At one point, He feels a certain decision is the best, then later has regret because things did not turn out so good.

      • Tamlew

        What is your point?

      • Syn Holliday

        Your view on a decision is not absolute if after the fact, you regret making the decision. God can make a rule then later regret making the rule.

      • Tamlew

        but that is only a bullet point on the way to your real point please state your real point plainly and clearly.

      • Tamlew

        answer your own question how can it be that an all knowning foreknowing God can feel sorrow over the events that he saw coming? it is true that God does not repent like man but God has a kind of repentance that he experiences …you have all the information you need to understand him

      • Tamlew

        just because we human beings cannot perform the law doesn’t mean that God’s standard is lowered and in fact that’s exactly why we need a Savior. praise God we have one..but what you guys are trying to say is that Jesus Christ who is God celebrates sin..he does not ..he came to save us from sin

      • Bella

        No, that’s not what anyone’s saying. The point here is that there are *many* of God’s laws as outlined in both Old and New Testament which modern Christians believe God no longer insists upon – not because of a lowering of standards but because other times call for other ways.

        And as soon as you espouse that line of thought, you move onto very shaky ground in asserting exactly which commands are temporal and which are eternal.

      • Syn Holliday

        Here is a New Testament command, very easy for women to obey if they choose (though I see most women in church toss this one out, not take it seriously at all):

        “Let your women keep SILENCE in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands AT HOME, for it is a SHAME for women to speak in the church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

      • Tamlew

        I actually agree with that. But, again, context is everything.

      • Syn Holliday

        I hear that a lot from apologists with no clarification. Please clarify the context..

      • Tamlew

        well I can understand why you’re hearing that from apologists if you’re speaking to apologists the way you’re speaking to me because you’re not really asking any questions, you’re not really making any statements and you’re just pulling text out of context…so what is your question? what is your point?… and before you ask your question and before you make your point study the context, look at the entire chapter or even book or even the entire Bible before you ask you a question or make your point. one thing that is necessary to understand that a lot of people don’t understand and even a lot of Christians don’t understand ..and I don’t know what your background is.. is that God’s entire end game in the Old Testament was to preserve the human genome so that the Messiah could come so that people could be saved; so that he himself could lay his life down to satisfy his own justice and pay for the penalty of our sin out of his love for us.. for humanity. there is no other religion on the face of the earth that has a God who is a savior who is both justice and love.. and no human being would ever make that up in fact human beings cannot wrap their minds around that.

      • K Rob

        Tamlew, you make a great point; however, it does not support your reasoning. No man walking this earth can or will meet God’s standard. Jesus was the only man to meet and exceed His standard. We are all sinners. Why do you have the right to choose which sin is most unforgivable?

  • Tamlew

    Neither reality, nor God, Who is the Author and Finisher of reality, are subject to popular vote…. Thank God!

  • freshfighter9

    If Jesus cared at ALL about homosexuality, he would have addressed it. He addressed divorce directly, and I don’t see anyone fighting to make THAT illegal (probably because so many “Christians” get divorced).

    • Thomas Maher

      He addressed divorce “directly” because he was asked directly about divorce. He most certainly addressed ALL of His Father’s commandments in Matthew 5:19 And like divorce all of these things including homosexuality are happening not because God wills it, but because of the hardness of our hearts.

  • bonnieca

    Are you forgetting something? Matt 19:4,5 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    • TruthBeTold

      The subject matter of that passage concerns divorce from marriage, not homosexuality. Same sex marriage was not recognized, and so it was not an issue to address. However, if you continue further in that chapter, Jesus says:
      “But he said unto them, all men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
      For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb” Matt 19: 11,12.

      In short, the passage states that it is natural for a man to leave the security of his parents to marry a woman. And IF he does, the couple should join together as one, and they should not be separated (divorce). But, this union of man and woman is not for everyone because there are some who were born without an interest in women.
      It does not promote or denigrate homosexuality, it really just speaks to marriage and divorce, and acknowledges that there is an exception for certain people.

      • Thomas Maher

        Wrong again. Jesus includes in Matthew 19 the word “porneia” which from the time of Demosthenes referred to a number of sexual practices including same-sex acts. Read Matthew 5:19

      • Pigturion

        The meaning of words especially in biblical context can have wide, varying, even contradictory meanings. Considering it’s supposed to be the holy definitive guide for morals and spirituality, the bible is a pretty poor effort by or on behalf of an omnipotent creator. If God & Jesus were real, there would be no doubt, misunderstanding or debate about their teachings within (let alone without) the Christian community.

  • Doris Ngurumun

    By our laws today, a person is fairly an adult at the age of 18. If we then accept that Christ died at 33, it suggests that he lived 15 years of adulthood. I think the fact that for fifteen years, Christ did not find it worthwhile to discuss homosexuality and blacklist it, when he clearly said he came to fulfil the law, Christians tagging people in same sex relationships as sinners today should reconsider. Christ brought love to the World and there is no justification to claim Christ if you cannot love one another, by respecting the choice of other adults in this regard.

  • amercrutio

    The failure of any mention of homosexuality in the New Testament means that homosexual priests wrote that document. No images of Jesus from the time he lived in wood or stone means there was no Jesus to make an image of. I can go back 200 years before Jesus and find images of people who were only important in their small community and they were no bringing back the dead, changing water into wine, or healing cripples.

    • didil ais

      your point is?

      • amercrutio

        Homosexuals promote homosexual behavior. And Jesus is a made up story by homosexuals deliberately omitting that homosexuality is evil behavior. Homosexuals have a 4 times higher incidence of suicide, damage to their anus from sodomy, eye problems that include blindness from the pressure sodomy puts on the head and eyes, and internal damage if the object of the intrusion is too large. This health information is concealed from the public to misrepresent the kinds of lives homosexuals have and the life a boy will have if he engages in homosexual sex. These and other problems are why homosexuality has been considered an abomination. Something only homosexuals would omit from any document like they omit in the public discourse today.

      • didil ais

        OK, like i already said instead of dating a guy that has breast, wear high heels and lipstick, it is more sane to date a woman,… instead of dating a woman that looks like a man, wears clothes that will make her look like a man, wears artificial penis, it is better and sane to date a man……….. we do not have to accept every sexual act just like the society does not accept paedophiles… but my only question is you said Jesus is a made up story by homos, can u explain pls

      • amercrutio

        Many of the OId Testament stories are doctored. There is one large segment that appeared during some period of reconstruction of a religious building. Also there are other New Testament stories not accepted. The people who supposedly wrote the New Testament would have been long since dead and they were illiterate so they could write nothing. The New Testament stories were clearly ghost written, a not uncommon practice especially at that time. Only members of the clergy who could read and write could have written the stories of the New Testament and only homosexual clergy would have omitted condemning homosexuality. Heterosexuals who understood just the health problems I mentioned would clearly want to condemn and therefore discourage that behavior. Only homosexuals would not include homosexuality on the list of condemned behavior that should not be practiced.

      • didil ais

        i like how much belief you have in your theory…. i will have to disagree with you on some issues, Paul wrote most of the new testament and he was very well educated…. the ones that might not have been educated could write or tell stories in their languages. The new testament spoke about homosexuality, do not get it wrong,… Paul clearly condemned it…. the story attached with Jesus was about his life and fight against hypocricy. Gods take on homosexuality is clear and we Christians believe Jesus is God

      • amercrutio

        I was a literature major and certain things become obvious when it comes to written documents especially when something obvious is omitted. Paul is the only one of the people in the New Testament who actually lived and he lived long after Jesus would have died. It is hard to know what was written by Paul and what was not. Since he comes long after the whole Jesus and disciples incident what he says is clearly hearsay in many cases. None of the so called disciples could read and write. This is your imagination about what you want to “believe”. People believe all kinds of things that are not true especially when they have been brainwashed to believe them.
        I wrote a book called “Literature, Psychiatry and Psychology” proving that multiple personality does not exist. It is suppressed at the moment. I could give different explanations as to how easy it is to tell multiple personality is a fraud. However let me just say that multiple personality can be traced back to the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and no further back. Nothing in Shakespeare, the Greeks, the Bible, or people’s personal journals,nothing. If multiple personality were real it would have been mentioned over and over. Also psychiatrists now call it Disassociative Identity Disorder. The word disassociate is right out of the science fiction novel, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Near the end of the book the narrator asks,”how then are the two disassociated”, that is, the minds of Jekyll and Hyde.
        So the word disassociative is not a psychological term but a science fiction concept. The con jobs continue millennium after millennium.
        The Catholic Church knows the story of Jesus is fiction and they cover it up. if they allowed people to see all their docs especially the earliest from the time of the “mystery” religions it would be easy to see it is a made up story. Further, if the story of Jesus was unique which is what the story claims it would have no similarities with other religions that have things like virgin births, wise men, etc.. The story of Jesus not being unique shows it to be another myth.
        My larger point here is you have to know what to look for in written docs. And generally you cannot trust people who have a large financial stake in their claims. For instance, psychiatry is not a science. Psychology is a social science so why does someone practicing a social science who has a medical degree about physical ailments make them an expert in the human mind superior to a plain psychologist. Another con job to get you to “believe” what they say.

      • Michael Mckenna

        If anyone is going blind it’s you, Anal sex, anal rimming, felatio sex to mention a few are sexual acts thought up by heterosexual have you seen the sexual position scroll from the ancient Egyptians, all of the acts are portrayed on the scroll by man and woman. These are some of the “FIRST” sexual acts ever recorded. If you look at the statistics. It’s a well know fact Molestation in the heterosexual community is off the scale compared to the homosexual community. I could imagine homosexuals have a four times higher incidence of suicide certainly in younger teenagers having people like you around spreading hate and ridiculous out of date theories I thought the middle East was bad but America for a western country is so far behind but what is the strangest is the African community is the most phobic. Yet when they where forced from there native land and dragged over on the slave boats they knew nothing about christian religion until it was rammed down there throats by the white man. Now that was the biggest abomination being treated like animals. America you have never moved on and you’re education system is so out of date. You only have to listen to the “redicluess” manor people talk on here. Oh back to the bible Adam and Eve where told to go forth and multiply. They did, they had sons and daughters they where told to go forth and multiply by Adam and Eve with who? If this book you believe to be so righteous then you have believe we are all fro incest. You bible basher’s are all from the original sin.

      • amercrutio

        Using out of context documents do not make any kind of case for homosexuality. Not to mention that anything men and women do as sex is perfectly normal including a nal sex. Men who are sodomized become very different people unlike women, as for one thing women cannot sodomize anyone but males can sodomize other males. Molestation among homosexuals, is far greater than heterosexual molestation, since for one thing almost all homosexuals will have sex with women as well as men so the pool of children to molest is twice as large as that for heterosexuals, consequently the myth that homosexauls promote, that heterosexuals do most of the molesting,s is homosexual propaganda. It is one of the many lies of this group who hates normal people primarily because they are unable to have normal relationships, hence they are unable to have normal feelings or normal thinking like yourself. I had two brothers molested by homosexuals, my parents owned a florist that employed mostly homosexuals, and the grammar school I went to New Orleans Academy out of the 30 boys in my class only about 3 of us were not being molested by our own fathers. None of this molestations will show up in your phony “statistics”. Nor the girls raised in the same fashion by their own fathers. All the information I have about homosexuality I have gotten from homosexuals themselves. I will be glad to provide details to you of their many and blunt conversations with me.

        I have to put this up in sections because Busted Halo will not allow uncensored remarks in some areas and I don’t know exactly where they are.

      • amercrutio

        Your protestations of slavery seem reserved for recent history and the U.S. in particular when slavery has been a part of human society since there has been human society seeming to try to make the argument that because some people did evil things that justifies other people doing evil, like homosexuals. Yet you only condemn slavery for recent history, Nor did I say anything about that form of slavery you went on that rant on your own as if that has something to do with the topic of homosexuality.

      • amercrutio

        However, raising children in homosexual behavior when they are too young to know what they are doing, makes them sex slaves with no control over their own sexuality. You only condemn the slavery you are not a part of. The sexual slavery you are a part of is O.K. The same is true with doing this with women. As women have told me. After their first menstrual cycle and they start to have sex they will start to have o rgasms. The only way they can have that same o rgasm with another man is if that first man shows them. Perhaps you are too unsophisticated sexually to know this or maybe it is because you are homosexual and therefore have no knowledge of women’s sexuality.

      • amercrutio

        Your r anting about the J ewish Bible shows you are simply emotionally incapable of r ational thinking. You clearly believe the J ewish Bible is to be taken literally. That is not my understanding of the J ewish Bible. However all the major religions agree that h omosexuality is to be avoided. And my personal knowledge shows that the C reole’s of New Orleans were right that, h omosexuality turns men into b easts. H omosexuals will do anything to anyone. Virtually all and perhaps all s erial k illers are h omosexual. It is often hard to tell who is h omosexual because h omosexuals lie about their sexuality most of the time and as I have had h omosexuals tell me, they say they have to lie!

        I had to chop this up to get it past the censor. Not sure what they objected to.

      • amercrutio

        You have been so perverted by homosexual sex it is you who are the hater. You hate heterosexuals and lie about yourself and lie about the problems of homosexual behavior. You lie about introducing little boys to homosexual sex. You lie that males can be born homosexual. You lie to women about your sexuality, sometimes even marrying women to use as a front. And many women marry homosexuals that they did not know were homosexuls. All of these things are acts of hate. Telling the truth about homosexuality is not hate. If you find the truth about homosexualtiy something you do not like blame yourselves for turning yourselves into homosexuals as only homosexuals can turn a male into a homosexual as heterosexuals find sex with males to be disgusting.

      • amercrutio

        Heterosexuals are responsible for homosexual suicides. All you homosexuals always blame anyone but yourselves for all your problems.

      • amercrutio

        I heard h omosexuals all my life talk about one another in the most insulting terms including all the h omosexuals slurs. It is you h omosexuals who abuse one another that are the cause for all the h omosexual s uicides yet you blame h eterosexuals who have nothing to do with your h omosexual lives. H eterosexuals often do not know who is h omosexual but h omosexuals can tell other h omosexual quite easily. Not to mention p sychiatry and p sychology will treat anyone for anything they say is a problem but you h omosexuals are making sure no one who is h omosexual can get any treatment by law, even if they want it. This is another act of hate by h omosexuals. Why would there be no proper t reatment for h omosexual behavior when there is t reatment for any other a bnormal behavior? This is another lie from h omosexuals. Notice the pattern of lying? For another thing I know there is at least one treatment for h omosexuality created by the C reole’s of New Orleans as my fathers took it himself.

        Again,not sure what they objected to.

      • amercrutio

        I notice you do not say anything about damage to the a nus from s odomy. I have had h omosexuals tell me they have to be careful when needing to have a bowel movement or stuff just comes out. The a nus is not a sex organ but it is too h omosexuals. Women who have married h omosexuals tell my ultimately these men only want a nal sex to the total exclusion of v aginal sex. This causes many marital problems including divorce. This shows how developmentally d amaged and d eranged they are. Stop lying about h omosexuality including that eye problems including blindness doesn’t result from s odomy not to mention internal damage. I have known these people including ones that need surgery from s odomy. Why do you lie about all these things?

      • amercrutio

        Also the d iseases from h omosexual behavior are much, much higher than h eterosexuals. Some of it has to do with c ontamination of i nternal o rgans via s odomy especially with many, ma ny s exual p artners..

        Recently h omosexuals like yourself had a doctor f ired for telling people about this e xcessive d isease among h omosexuals. Look up–d octor f ired for telling the truth about h omosexuality–at freedom outpost.

        maybe it was the link on this one, but censored.

      • amercrutio

        There are so many problems with h omosexuality including the forcing of s domy onto some males during otherwise consensual sex and the r aping of h
        eterosexual men by h omosexuals for fun. I can give you details if you like. You should be aware of all these things but because of what being turned into a h
        omosexual has done to your mind you can only hate the messenger as if that negates the message. The message is clear h omosexuality is e vil and turns men into b easts who lie and force young boys into h omosexuality against their will and also turn the young women, they can get their hands on into s ex s laves. This is the reason so many women go into p ornography in the U.S. not to mention women are routinely forced in the U.S. to have s ex for grade, letters of recommendation, jobs in most fields in the U.S. particularly Hollywood and the medical field, but it true throughout the entire perverted American culture perversions that started in mass in 1935. Find out why here:”Nazi America” on Youtube
        And see the verification by goggling “map of u.s. by ethnicities” and look at the make on the far right.

      • amercrutio

        I am sorry you were turned into a homosexual without your consent and must suffer from it as your angry comments show, so why do want other males to suffer the same fate? What sense does that make? And if you want to get angry at someone think back to who turned you into a homosexual and get angry them, and at homosexuals who continue to turn little boys into homosexuals instead of spewing hatred at heterosexual swho tell you the truth, the truth you want to deny. Living in denial make for angy people and most of you homosexuals are very angry people as your comments to me indicate.

        And in your comments to me you take all kinds of examaples that have little relevance to one another as if you have made some kind of intellectual point. You haven’t. You have shown that homosexualtiy turns men into b easts.

        This site has made it difficult to say some things. I think they are interested in suppressing the truth.

      • Kcday

        The person that made him homosexual were his heterosexual parents genes , and I believe you were born that way and it’s not something that can or needs to be changed. You fall in love with the PERSON you fall in love with.

      • amercrutio

        No one can be born homosexual. It is not possible. Human behavior is all learned behavior. Humans do not have instincts like birds who know how to build a nest without being shown. Children have to be taught to dress themselves and if you teach them to put their clothes on backwards they will. Children have to be taught everything including sexual behavior. You have been brainwashed.
        You romantic notions are just that romantic notions.

      • Kcday

        Show me woman in pornaghraphy that support what your saying. And women are not forced to do anything to get ahead they are just taking the easy route or have such a low self esteem they can’t say NO!

      • amercrutio

        They can say no and not get hired. I know of it throughout the U.S.. You either don’t know what you are talking about or you are lying.

      • Kcday

        No I do what I am talking about, if a woman wants something bad enough she will open her legs and if a smart woman wants somethingbad enough she will record everything just saying!!

      • amercrutio

        If they are raised that way. You are showing you have been sexually abused.

      • Kcday

        Really, that’s what you have to say…lol

      • amercrutio

        You are boring. And lie. And don’t care about people being sexally abuses. You are nuts.

      • Kcday

        Lol…sorry you can’t back up what you say!!

      • amercrutio

        Go see pictures of Jenna Jameson when she was young and go see what she looks and acts like now. I met her back in the early 90′s a very attractive and nice person. But not now. And look up Riley Brooks a very attractive girl now living in Dallas and repeatedly arrested. Go look up suicides in the porn business. I could give you more examples but you are boring me because you do not know anything.

      • Kcday

        N we say drugs…

      • Kcday

        The disease rate is higher because they are not the majority. Duh

      • amercrutio

        Duh. Yeah, that’s you. Another homosexual apolgogist lying to people. The disease rate would not be higher because of what you say, the rate is the rate no matter the sample. And homosexuals are not in the majority in the U.S. as tjeu are creating more homosexuals everyday mostly fathers doing their own children who cannot do anything about it.

      • Kcday

        If you were professional, I’m sure that’s not the comeback I would have got. You have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not a homosexual but I support people who can’t help being born different. You are the reason for the high suicide rate because you think it can be changed, your father is just suppressing his, and you probly are TOO!!

      • amercrutio

        You people have nothing but excuses to try to justify perveted behavior. I know exactly what I am talking about all from the mouths of homosexuals and the women many have married. Blaming heterosexuals because you turned little boys into homosexuals and who themselves find that behavior disgusting and can’t live with it is the reason for the suicides as well as people like you who lie about homosexuality.
        Everyone who opposses homosexulity is a closet homosexual? ROFLMAO. You are nuts. And all you spout is homosexual propaganda that is easily proven false. By the way, I notice you say nothing when I corrected you about the rate. Why do you bother to promote such a horrible lifestyle and little boys being turned into homosexuals against their will. Greek history is proof that homosexuals are made not born.

      • Kcday

        So me some proof of the side effects. And yes there may need to be surgery because of it but that’s because the persons doing it have no idea what they are doing!!

      • amercrutio

        You are clearly one of these people who were sexually abused. Your proof insistence is what I learned from homosexuals themselves and their wives. For people like you who want to live in denial nothing is sufficent even blatant facts. The but whole is a one way exit. Forcing anything into it like anything being shoved the wrong way into a valve will damage it. Sit on the commode and cough, you will feel pressure downward similarly pressure from below will put pressure in the head and eyes. S odomy creates a closed hydaulic system unlike v aginal sex that sometimes has p u ss y f arts. Internal damage can occure by desire if the object of the intrusion is too large. I know people with all these problems. I think you know these things.

      • Kcday

        So where is the proof, didn’t see any link.

      • amercrutio

        What proof from the homosexual medical community. Go google, doctor in boston fired for telling the truth about homosexuality. They shut everyone up who tells the truth. And I explained in detail about the medical problems of s odomy. Can’t comprehend english?

      • Glisten Snail

        *ahem* There is no such thing as a “male anus’ or a “female anus”. Everydody has an anus – it is not a sexual characteristic, or a variation between genders. Well not as far as humans are concerned – female birds use the same passage for both eggs and excrement. So maybe some animal has one kind of anus for males, and another kind of anus for females. I just don’t know. But for humans? Same construction for the anus of both males and females.
        So ‘”medical problems of sodomy” applies to both women and men. Which means it applies equally to both sodomy by heterosexuals AND sodomy by homosexuals. If such medical problems is “the truth about homosexuality” then it is also “the truth about heterosexuality”.
        This should be so obvious that nobody could get it wrong. Oh well.
        Also – another massively inconvenient fact that poor amercrutio has to ignore. Or more likely does not know. A lot of homosexual men include sodomy in their relationship, but not all. Plenty of homosexual men do not practice sodomy at all. Sodomy is not essential to homosexuality, just a little more popular than it is amongs heterosexuals. How MASSIVELY inconvenient is this fact for amercrutio’s beliefs? Why, oh why, are facts so insistently in opposition to him?
        DAMMIT!! I said I would stop correcting amercrutio’s mistakes. But really – the fool tried to pretend that a person who disagreed with his irrational conclusions “Can’t comprehend english (sic)”. There is merely wrong, and then there is “totally deluded”.

      • amercrutio

        An anus is an anus to homosexuals but not to normal heterosexuals. Heterosexuals may have anal sex but they will not have anal sex with men. So clearly your statement is proven false by normal people’s behavior.
        Female birds? I am talking about human beings. You are nuts.
        Medical problems of anal sex do apply to both men and women, however, homosexuals can only engage in anal sex so they have far more damage to the anus then heterosexuals, some, maybe many do not engage in anal sex at all. Men do not have v aginas so the only sex men can have other than oral is anal. This is the primary means of sex among homosexuals and why the have more medical problems and disease’s that are far less prominent in normal heterosexuals.
        You homosexuals like to compare homosexual sex and heterosexual sex as if it is equal. It is not equal. One is normal and one is not. Their are many problems with normal living including disease but engaging in abnormal behavior that can be avoided by not forcing little boys into homosexuality against their will is sick, perverted, and increases the dangers unnecessarily for no reason other than perversion itself.
        All homosexual men practice sodomy. Sodomy is essential to homosexuality. You are nuts. Stop wasting my time you pervert who wants to destroy the lives of normal heterosexual boys and their normal heterosexual families.

      • Kcday

        Why would there be a treatment for this when the majority of homosexual people are what they are, and if someone ( homosexual) thinks it’s wrong it’s because the people they are surrounded by say so (bible thumpers) they are the ones who you talk about committing suicide because they have noone like-minded to make them know they are not alone.

      • amercrutio

        You are brainwashed. Most homosexuals do not want to be homosexuals. I had two brothers molested by homosexuals, my parents owned a florist that employed homosexuals, and in my grammar school out of the 30 boys there were only about 3 of us not being molested by our own fathers. All your homosexual propaganda is nothing but lies. I have described who is responsible for those suicides and why; it is homosexuals and the abuse they heap on one another. Why can’t people who don’t want to be homosexuals have treatment. This is your equality? This is your fascism.

      • Kcday

        Not brainwashed, just a normal person expressing my view, which you obviously can’t handle because you know of a few people who didn’t want what happened to them. Please talk to a person who knows what they are and has had no negative experiences.

      • amercrutio

        Normal people don’t support homosexuality. You do not know what you are talking about. I know hundreds of people. A few. You are nuts and can’t read and comprehend that which you choose not to know. You are in denial as most sexully abused people are.
        And like all homosexuals and their apologists you ignore the things that refute what you say as you did in my last post.

      • Kcday

        You don’t know me but why do I need to be sexually abused to feel this way?

      • amercrutio

        Because you support perverted behavior and women engaging in sex as if it were casual.

      • Kcday

        It is

      • amercrutio

        If you were raised that way as far as casual sex goes. But you support perverted behavior which is only done by people who were sexully abused.

      • Kcday

        So show me the link where only sexually abused people support this.

      • Kcday

        Just for the record I have never been sexually abused so that statement is false maybe you should read more.

      • amercrutio

        Your mindset says you were sexually abused. You say things only sexually abused people say. And would you raise you hand and say I was sexually abused. Most people are too embarrassed and want to keep that info private.

      • Kcday

        You honestly don’t know anything about my mind, and because I am challenging you, you made that assumption to what, upset me?

      • amercrutio

        Go look up inductive reasoning. That is how I know what is in people’s minds from what they say. And I am not wasting my time with you anymore. Any answers to any comments you can make have been covered here over and over.

      • Kcday

        ??

      • Glisten Snail

        Oops. You might want to look up inductive reasoning yourself. It is deductive reasoning (also known as abductive reasoning) that has a conclusion that is certain e.g. that lead to the right answer.
        In inductive reasoning the conclusion is probable, not certain e.g. may lead to the right answer, may lead to the wrong answer.
        If nothing else, it explains why you demonstably do NOT know what is in other people’s mind from what they say.
        And since I am correcting your mistakes – you have not covered or answered any of Kcday’s comments. You have made absurd comments, ranted in general, and attacked Kcday personally. But at no time did you manage to cover OR “answer” any of Kcday’s comments.
        Do I need to point out that it is not possible to “answer” a comment? One answers questions, and one might use the word “answer” in a broad sense to describe an argument in response to another argument. But amercrutio has no argument to present, just an assembly of unsupported personal beliefs, false statements and personal attacks, so this use of the word “answer” does not apply. And he has made no genuine attempt to respond to the argument of others.
        And comment, by definition, does not require an answer – not even when “comment” is being used in its broad sense to refer to a post in an internet thread.
        To everybody else who reads or participates in this thread: I know, I know. Picking up on the mistakes and inconstencies in amercrutio’s posts is like shooting fish in a barrel – not sporting at all. And it would be the work of a lifetime, or at least take decades. I’ll stop now.

      • amercrutio

        I know exactly what inductive reasoning is. But as usual you abnormal homosexuals are the only ones who know the truth. LOL.
        I have used inductive reasoning for decades. When people make the same kinds of comments from the same experiences over and over that is proof that can be used when other people make the same comments. I know how to use inductive reasoning in practice. You know inductive reasoning from reading the concept out of a textbook.
        I never answered any of her comments.? You are nuts. She nor you will discuss the medical problems of homosexuality that are not present in normal heterosexual behavior. LOL. But ,I, am in denial. You are incapable or normal reasoning.
        The bulk of what you have to say is just your intellectual games that say nothing. Don’t waste my time. You are an idiot.

      • amercrutio

        By the way, genius, even deductive reasoning can be in error. But you learn everything from textbooks and have no practical experience. So you do not understand this.

      • amercrutio

        LOL. Do you think sexually abused people raise their hands to be counted. You are naive and boring,

      • Kcday

        Honesty than the statement you just made is not fact which should not have been stated to try to prove a point which you have no knowledge on. You are the most uneducated person I have ever had a discussion with on this matter you have nothing to prove anything you have stated as fact, and all you have to say are comments about my past, and how boring I am. I’m sad you are still in the closet and have such a hate for people who are proud to be different and not hide any more.

      • amercrutio

        Calling someone sad is a constant homosexual refrain.
        In the closet, yeah, when I need clothes. It is you who hate normal people. And you hate little boys and girls who are abused or you would want to stop the abuse. I have talked to so many people over many decades in many different places. You don’t know anything but homosexual and lesbian propaganda.
        And that statement I made is a fact. Only not to perverts who only believe their own propaganda.
        I have provided lots of proof but brainwashed people only believe their brainwashing like you.

      • Kcday

        No, you have provided no proof. Plus, you portray yourself as an older man but from all the comments made I see proof you are a young teenage boy who is confused because his parents take him to church which teach him he is evil and all these rants are you putting others down to feel better about yoursel!!

      • amercrutio

        What about treatment for the minority? You don’t care about them at all. You are so reasonable. And most homosexual if given a choice would not be homosexuals.

      • Kcday

        I had orgasms before my first cycle, and the first few men I had sex with didn’t give me any!! But after I learned what I liked, had no problem achieving one. So wherever you got that info is from woman who don’t know what the hell they are doing. And to get back on subject where did Jesus speak on homosexuality because I need to know!!

      • amercrutio

        Sorry, I know many, many women who have made it clear that what you say is not true or maybe you are some anomaly. The orgasms women have is not the kind of orgasm you are referring to. The orgasms I am referring to women will do anything for. I think it is you who do not know what your are talking about. Do you remember the first time you had sex? If not then you were being sexually abused. The v agina does not function in the same way before the first menstual cyle. It is simply a fact of biology. You can read my other posts about homosexuality and Jesus. If you want to live in fantasy then go ahead.

      • Kcday

        I think you are living in a fantasy. I totally remember the first time I had sex, and am sorry for women who don’t know what they are doing that can’t achieve one. And the 2 woman that you have talked don’t give you the right to make it fact.

      • amercrutio

        I have talked to dozens of women. You go talk to women and men and if they tell you the truth they will confirm what I have said. And like all homosexuals and their apologists you ignore things you choose to ignore like in my last post. But you are being honest? LOL

      • Glisten Snail

        You just spoke with a woman on the internet who told you the truth – and you chose to call her a liar or “just an anomaly” because she did not agree with you. Because – according to you – other women said otherwise. Why is is that the only people who tell the truth – according to you – are the ones who agree with you?

        You cite the people who agree with you as if this is some kind of evidence that you are right. But the ONLY people you cite are people who agree with you.

        Just how many times have you conveniently forgotten people who disagreed with you? Just how many people have you ignored by pretending they MUST be lying? Through your own post, there is proof that you cite only people who agree with you, and lie by pretending nobody tells you otherwise.

        You have been lying to yourself for a very long time. You have been wilfully ignoring any fact you find inconvenient for a very long time. It is understandable that you cling to your lies and misconceptions. The only way you could ever face the truth would be to admit all the harm you have done to others through your own ignorance and hate.

        It is understandable that you are desparate to avoid admitting this, so desparate that you will warp everything and anything into a defence for your own actions and behaviour. The guilt and shame would be unbearably painful.

        But that does not make you right. And it does not give you the right to victimise others. Nobody has the right to hurt others just to save themself embarrasment and shame.

        If you genuinely believe you are right, you do not need these lies and distortions. If you are genuinely right, then the truth is there already and it has no need to be redefined or manipulated by anybody.

        So you would not have to pretend that no woman has ever told you she enjoys anal sex. You would not
        have to pretend that every single homosexual who tells you they were born that way MUST be lying. You would not need to pretend that Jesus spoke out against homosexuality even though there is nothing in his
        teachings that even mentions homosexuality. You would not have to pretend that every person in the world who disagrees with you is lying, taking part in some huge, purposeless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy. There never has been. You and others like you imagined it so none of you had to face the painful truth.

        Most of all, you would not need to post again and again in tihs forum, desparate to convince someone, anyone, that you are right.

        Nobody believes you. Why would they? Not even you believe what you are saying. Even though you want to believe it, need to believe it, so very much.

        People who KNOW what they say is the honest truth do not need to post half-truths, deliberate distortions of the truth, and claims that anyone who disagrees with them MUST be lying. Because people who know they are honest with themselves and with the world only need to post the truth once, then move on. Other people can choose to believe the truth, or choose to believe lies.

        Let’s face it – there is only ever one reason to believe the truth. Because it is the truth. There are millions of reasons to choose a lie instead, and every single one is selfishness.

        The truth does not care either way. It is there, no matter what people say. You cannot change it just because you posted desparately against it, again and again, in an internet thread.

      • amercrutio

        I have detailed specific information from literally hundreds of people, homosexuals and their unfortunate wives, so your beliefs in people’s perverted thinking as if it is normal is just that belief. Bruce Jenner is not a woman. He was sexually abused so his psychology has been damaged and he incapable of having normal relations. He has fathered children all the while pretending to be normal. Why did he engage in these normal relations if he is really a women? He could have declined. No, he wanted a normal life that was taken from him by child molesting homosexuals who lie about homosexuality. That woman I responded to in this column, for instance, said she was not sexually abused by was having orgasms for years before she had her first cycle. Women have their first cycle at about 10-12 and it has been getting younger over the decades. So this woman who said she was not sexually abused was having v aginal sex probably by the time she was 8 and I would guess even younger. That is sexual abuse even if you and she does not know it.
        One sexaully perverted woman saying something as opposed to dozens and dozens of women? Surely you jest. All you homosexuals want to take the exception and say that is the rule. The exception is not the rule. It has to do with facts not who I think is right.
        Further, she shows her ignorance with the statement that homosexual disease appears higher because they are in the minority. She and you, since you agree with her, do not understand science, as the rate of the sample is the rate. Do you understand that or do you need elementary explanations. First go look up “doctor who was fired for telling the truth about homosexualty”. This shows homosexuals like yourself are the ones who want to deny the truth and are hateful people who will destroy other peoples lives to justify your abnormal and perverted behavior. Not to mention turning little boys into homosexuals when they are too young to know what they were doing and use the lie that homosexuals can be born homosexual. This is absolutely not possible. Forcing your sexual deviation on young boys against their will is evil.
        Your argument is faulty. If people say the sun revolves around the earth does that make them right. According to you it does. So if people believe false information about homosexuality according to you they are right. Abnormal behavior causes abnormal thinking regarding homosexual behavior. And your reasoning is erroneous in order to justify feelings you have that were forced onto you by homosexuals, feelings that make you incapable of normal reasoning.
        You claim that only the things you say are real and say I ignore people who say otherwise? Aren’t you doing the same thing, however, I have science behind what I say, not emotion pretending to be reason.
        It is homosexuals like you who are doing harm to others and are engaging in projection. Why is normality the anomaly? That however makes sense to you in your perverted thinking. Abnormal is normal and normal is abnormal. Don’t you understand when you have things reversed? Apparently not. And this is the danger to society of sexually abuse particularly, homosexual abuse.
        You more I read your post, I have to say, you are nuts, as well. You have been damaged by being introduced to homosexual sex when you were too young to know what you are doing so therefore the abnormal is normal and the normal people are the sick, evil ones instead of yourself for all the reasons you claim about me. What you are doing is classic projection.
        Anal sex among consenting heterosexuals is normal. And woman were made for men to have sex with. Men and women can have sex in any way they like providing no one is being hurt. This is normal. Men s odomizing other men is not normal and creates monsters who molest, victimize, and even kill other people. Virtually all, and perhaps all s erial k illers are homosexual. Being homosexual does not mean you only have sex with men. It means you have sex with men, but usually, they have sex with women too. As one homosexual told me, a wet hole is a wet hole. This is sick.
        As far as Jesus goes, read what he said about coming to fulfill the Prophets no deny them, and that means homosexuality is to Jesus an abomination because that is what the Prophets he came to fulfill said. You people in your perverted thinking can justify anything even when the facts say you are wrong.
        Homosexuals lie to people about themselves so they can create more sexual partners for themselves by introducing young boys into homosexuality when they are too young to know what they are doing. And yes people who lie to do things are engaging in a conspiracy. Conspiracies happen all the time. Some are totally criminal some are not. People conspire to get two people together, for instance, that they think will make a good couple. But people are arrested everyday for criminal conspiracies. Read the daily papers, everyday, not just once in awhile.
        My posting is in response to people’s comments directed directly to me. And, of course, I am engaged in some conspiracy because I respond to other people’s posts that are directed at me. You are engaging in finding things to justify your beliefs because it is you who are in denial so normal activities like my responding to posts directed toward me are somehow conspiratorial and abnormal. LOL.
        There are lots of people who not only believe what I say but know it is the truth. I have heard these homosexual arguments you make many, many times. Only I believe it? You are nuts. Clearly all the people who told me these things not only believe it but know it is true, but you still make the specious and ridiculous argument that these people don’t count. Only your abnormal behavior and thinking counts. This is the serious danger of homosexual abuse. You people are dangerous to society and all normal people.
        Your ramblings on truth are typical homosexual nonsense. And if the truth is what you are looking for go back and read all my posts.
        Also I notice you do not say anything about the medical problems of homosexuality like damage to the but whole, eyes problems that include blindness, internal damage from s odomy. None of these things happen in normal sexual relations. Ding, Ding, Ding. Do you hear the bell of reality?
        It is interesting that girl brought up porn. I was in the video wholesale business and sold adult tapes. I was friends with the owner of one of the largest adult producers of porn and made many trips to the video convention in Las Vegas. I had many, many conversations with him about sexual behavior. And he did not disagree with me, in fact, he told me even more things to confirm all the things that I have said.
        I am not desperate in any way. However, I do care about people being damaged by lying homosexuals and other sexually abused people.
        Maybe you have read the recent revelations of Jackie Fuchs. If you do not know who she is by name then you are not a person who keeps up with the news. That means, you are in denial and don’t want to know what goes on in the world, but live in your little bubble. If you do know, or you look her up and read all the accompanying stories you will see confirmation of what sexual abuse does to people. Like Joan Jett ignoring the abuse and confirmation of her snickering while one girl is raped. This is what happens when men and women are sexually abused.
        Also I notice you say nothing about homosexual lying to women about their sexuality even marrying them without telling them the truth about themselves. This is common and involves them engaging in a conspiracy for their own selfish desires.
        You and people like you are very, very dangerous.

      • Michael Mckenna

        Woman do sodomized are you for real have you heard of a strap on’s They can sodomize both sexes and have been for centuries. I’m not sure about the Egyptians but the Roman woman certainly did and so on, You are something else the histories out there. Woman and young girls are being drugged, raped. gang raped, kidnapped, tortured and murdered etc. Family members are being drugged raped, molested, tortured and murdered by family members where in some cases whole families are wiped out with a gun or knife etc. You hear so much more cases on the news. Than a Homosexual who has molested. Normal people? what is normal “YOU” really? I don’t believe a word out your mouth no one thing. Where do you get your information from it’s a big farce.

      • amercrutio

        They keep blocking me.

        I know of no women who will s odomize any man by force however h omosexuals do it all the time. I had someone tell me he was told to get into a fight with me and if he could s odomize me. I told him I would have k illed him.

      • amercrutio

        Your insistence that women s odomize one another however fits into my point that s odomy has little effect on w omen however, s odomy on males has a d rastic p sychological effect. Again you want to say because some people are doing e vil things that makes the e vil things h omosexuals do o.k.. Again, a bnormal behavior causes a bnormal thinking. And h omosexuals will say anything to try to justify their p erverted behavior. That’s right normal h eterosexuals.

      • amercrutio

        All my information is from h omosexuals and the w omen who have been in volved with h omosexuals. And again you want to be in d enial in order to justify your p erverted l ifestyle. Also you don’t even try to re fute the my raid facts I presented on h omosexuls. You people just engage in any kind of p erverted be havior and p erverted thinking to justify the h orrible effects h omosexuals have on m ales.

      • amercrutio

        What is heard on the n ews? The U.S.n ews? H omosexuals control the U.S. m edia. Why do you think p eople are not told about all the m edical p roblems a ssociated with h omosexuality? Why do you think they s ilenced that d octor? H omosexuals in d enial like yourself only p erpetuate more e vil. And you are in capable of having n ormal r elations, n ormal f eelings or n ormal t hinking.

    • Michael Mckenna

      If a gay priest wrote the New Testament I think it would of had a bit of flare about it. like a rainbow on the front cover or Mary and Joseph riding into Bethlehem on a Unicorn..

      • amercrutio

        They didn’t say they were homosexual like the priests today don’t say they are homosexual. Nor do they go to confession or if they do they lie. Nor have any of the priests provided lists of the boys they molested. These so called preists are monsters who use religion to hide their depravities and prey on decent God fearing people.

      • Bella

        You really need to grasp the distinction between homosexuality, child sexual ab-use, and paedophilia! They’re three completely different things.

      • amercrutio

        Virtually all homosexuals molest children and molesting children is child abuse. However since child molesting homosexuals usually molest dozens and dozens of little boys it is hard to know. I am sure there are some homosexuals who do not molest children. But since the homosexuals population is ever growing and all homosexuals hide the truth about homosexuality they are ALL responsible for all the child abuse of children. The only way you get a homosexual is to introduce a boy to homosexuality when they are too young to know what they are doing. I get sick of you people lying and destroying children’s lives and the lives of their heterosexual families. This is the problem with homosexuality. It is simple evil.
        You perverts always say other people don’t grasp this or that. You are all incapable of having normal relations, and hence incapable of having normal feelings and hence incapable of having normal thinking. Normal people are entitled to live without having you homosexuals pervert everything in this world with your disgusting, evil, immoral, dangerous, lying behavior, but you homosexuals think you have the right to destroy anything and anyone normal. You are all dangerous monsters who are completely untrustworthy and should be separated from normal people and be forced to live your perverted lives by yourselves where you can’t hurt normal heterosexuals or spread your evil behavior. Satanic acts are bastardizations of normal acts and since homosexuality is a bastardization of normal sex it is Satanic behavior.
        No one should expect evil to tell the truth and you homosexuals do not tell the truth but lie in order to spread this evil behavior.

      • Bella

        Your rant is based on a whole bunch of unfounded premises.

        Firstly, many of us here (including me) are heterosexual. Secondly, there is no direct correlation between homosexuality and child sexual abuse (and your assumption completely discounts the huge proportion of heterosexual abuse). And thirdly, you have completely ignored paedophilia as distinct from child sexual abuse.

        This is not worth continuing unless you are willing to look at the facts instead of being blinded by conspiracy theories and your own paranoia.

      • amercrutio

        First you do not specify what my “unfounded premises” are. All you homosexual try to act like you are so sophisticated but you usually just make general remarks like you do. In other words you have nothing. Or you would detail it.
        I do not believe you are heterosexual. Heterosexuals find sex with males to be disgusting so why would hetereoseuxals support homosexualtiy. All homosexuals lie and they have told me they have to lie. They decieve and marry women pretending to be heterosexual as I have known many of them both the homosexuals and the women. There is a direct correlation between homosexuality and molesting children both male and female. Since virtually all homosexual men will have sex with males and females the pool of children to molest is much higher than heterosexuals, in essence, it is twice as large,therefore the abuse must be higher. You state you know so much about heterosexual abuse but in the same sentence you say there is NO correlation between homosexuality and child abuse, however you at the same time claiming there is a correlation between heterosexuality and child abuse. LOL. You guys are dangerous.
        You can use all the propaganda terms you want gay, LBGT, transgender, paedophilia to try to distract people from the facts. All gay, transgender and bisexual people are all homosexuals. You guys are psychological disaster areas with your lies, propaganda, and delusions. You do not know what paranoia is in clinical terms. It has nothing to do with your apparent definition as determined by your applying it to me. Conspiracies occur all the time and not all are insidious like people trying to get two people together they think will make a good couple. But lying to people about homoseuxality is a conspiracy. And what homosexuality does to men is a travesty and is criminal as only children introduced to homosexuality will become homosexuals. All homosexuals were abused as children by homosexuals as heterosexual who do not engage in homosexual behavior cannot teach homosexual behavior. I had two brothers molested by homosexuals, my parents had a florist that employed mostly homosexuals, and the grammar school I went to only about 3 of the 30 boys in my class weren’t being molested by their own fathers. I have know thousands of homosexuals who were very candid with me. All the information I have is from homosexuals and their unfortunate wives. So they are all blinded by conspiracy theories and paranoia? LOL.
        People are arrested for conspiracies everyday. This whole idea of laughing at any conspiracy with the phrase “conspiracy theory” shows there is a desire to make sure people do not take conspiracies seriously even though they happen everyday. You do not know anything or you are lying.

      • Bella

        Actually, I did state what your unfounded premises are. I enumerated them very specifically. I don’t intend to repeat that.

        “I do not believe you are heterosexual.”

        Therein lies the paranoia. People who refuse to accept reality despite being told the truth are exemplifying paranoia.

        “Heterosexuals find sex with males to be disgusting so why would hetereoseuxals support homosexualtiy.”

        Well, firstly, I’m female, so you’re ignoring half the population there. Secondly, in my early adulthood (I’m now in my 50s) I experimented with a lesbian relationship and decided I didn’t find it nearly as satisfying as heterosexuality. I’m absolutely certain I’m heterosexual because of that opportunity to have tried both, but I don’t find the thought of homosexuality disgusting. So that goes completely against your theories.

        Most heterosexuals don’t find the thought of gay sex disgusting; they find it uninteresting. The ones who are really vehemently opposed to it are very often found to be denying their own gay tendencies.

        And one last point – most heterosexuals have primarily heterosexual social groups. If you’ve talked to as many homosexuals as you say, then I’d guess you’re far more deeply into the gay scene than you’d like us to believe :-)

      • amercrutio

        You do not know what paranoia is in clinical terms like almost everyone who uses the term. My knowledge of psychology is extensive. I have written a book proving that multiple personality does not exist. It is called Literature. Psychiatry and Psychology and I have explained it in another post here. So find it.

        Women generally find men having sex with men something to laugh at. This is what many have told me.
        I used to see movies of all types including adult. I would provide homosexual tapes by order only. A woman store owner made it very clear she and her friends would get together and laugh for some fun by viewing homosexual tapes.

        All my information is from homosexuals and their unfortunate wives so you are saying these people are paranoid and don’t know what they are talking about?That shows how arrogant you are.

        How would you know how heterosexuals find the thought. of homosexual sex. There is not a single heterosexual man I have talked to who did not agree that homosexual sex is disgusting. And of course my feeling are to be discounted. You are very arrogant.

        You,r any male who opposes homoexuality is a homosexual, is deliberately insulting when you direct it at me and you do. And that is your intention. All men must really be homosexual?That is absurd. That is so stupid. If I made the same argument for lesbians you yourself as an example prove it false. It can be true for women but not for men?

        However, many men who have been introduced to homosexuality do not want to have that compulsion. And they fight it. These men do not need smart allecks like you making it harder for them to deal with this serious developmental damage.

        You are really not very bright. Of course homosexuals want to associate with any males they can. And their perverted desire makes them sexually desire heterosexual men. The forbidden fruit. The thing they can’t have. The fantasy that titillates them. They like you desire to prove all men are homosexual. You are all sick.

        You are very smug and ignore all the realities of the horror of homosexuality such as little boys can only be taught homosexual behavior by homosexuals. They cannot be taught homosexualtiy by heterosexuls as they do not practice that behavior.

        You are deliberately insulting and really a creep. More like a shrew. Your last statement puts you in that category. The sharp tongued woman is a genuine type of woman. Women who like to say things that are intended to inflict emotional pain.
        As you yourself said homosexuals have primarily heterosexual social groups. But you make the suggestion that I must be homosexual because I have talked to so many homosexuals.
        Your mental manipulation shows you to be as dangerous as the homosexuals I was forced to associate with.
        The boys in my grammar school class with few exceptions made it clear they did not want to be homosexuals but they had been forced to do it from the crib and so could not stop themselves from the feelings that were ingrained on them. They did not know their parents were teaching them abnormal behavior. But when they got old enough they knew it was something they did not want to engage in but the compulsion is lifelong.

        You are disgusting. Seeing my older brother come back from a Catholic boarding school and struggle his entire life with what was done to him is something you snicker about like all the psycho’s do. As he got older their came a point where he could not stop crying. You are a monster. I have seen it firsthand with two brothers. I have seen it in the school I went to. I have seen it as an adult. Such as a woman confronting here unknown to her homosexual husband, in front of me, with her angst over his lying to her and having sex with males the entire time they were married. And her horror when he admitted he had started baby training their daughter by using her sucking motion to get oral sex. Clearly the infant was too young to know what was being done to her just like the male infants.
        I have seen it in the many adult males who have told me that they do not want to engage in h osexual sex and only want to have sex with women, but since that urge comes over them, they try to find a male like themselves so they can when they have to, have a male they can have sex with without anyone finding out. Your in the closet belief is really homosexual propaganda. Most are not in the closet, they do not want to be homosexuals and are trying not to engage in that sexual behavior they themselves find disgusting. As one homosexual put it to me, who would be like this unless they had to.
        Your contempt for the psychological problems of these men is astounding. And says you were sexually abused as only women like the sexually perverted Joan Jett find something to snicker about in these people’s serious emotional distress.

        You are a monster pretending to be nice like all sexual predators and their apologists. May God have mercy on your soul, but he won’t and shouldn’t as you are choosing to promote evil.

      • Bella

        Your words:
        “You are very arrogant.”
        “smart allecks like you”
        “You are really not very bright.”
        “You are all sick.”
        “You are very smug”
        “You are deliberately insulting and really a creep. More like a shrew.”
        “Your mental manipulation shows you to be as dangerous as the homosexuals”
        “You are disgusting.”
        “You are a monster.”
        “Your contempt for the psychological problems of these men is astounding.”
        “You are a monster pretending to be nice like all sexual predators”
        “you are choosing to promote evil.”

        Reported.

      • amercrutio

        The truth hurts. I am called all kinds of names on websites but never repost anyone. You want to insult but you object to being insulted back. Grow up. And you don’t respond to any of the facts I have laid out only I hurt your feelings. BooHoo. Crybaby. And shutting people up is what all you people with mental problems like to do. I am commenting on another site now about a completely different subject and the person who responds keeps telling me to take my meds and refers to what I say as raving. I am an adult. I am not a child who runs to their parents complain like you. Report him? You are silly and not very intelligent.

      • Bella

        You didn’t hurt my feelings (don’t flatter yourself!). You broke the forum posting rules. Any forum member, whether the one to whom such verbal abuse is directed or not, is entitled to report a poster who breaks the rules with their posts.

        I didn’t do it sneakily; I did it openly and explicitly. That’s adult behaviour.

      • amercrutio

        You have mental problems.

      • amercrutio

        I have reported you as well for calling me mentally ill and making other references that are insulting but you think because you do it cleverly it is o.k. . Report me? That proves you are a shrew.

      • amercrutio

        You said these are my words and they are. You choose to take them out of context.

        “You are very arrogant.”–100% true.
        “smart allecks like you”—-100% true
        “You are really not very bright.”–100% true
        “You are all sick.”——–true in as far as I can determine
        You are very smug”———very true
        “You are deliberately insulting and really a creep. More like a shrew.”——————–All three are true
        “Your mental manipulation shows you to be as dangerous as the homosexuals”—–100% true
        “You are disgusting.”—–true
        “You are a monster.”—–true
        “Your contempt for the psychological problems of these men is astounding.”- absolutely, irrevocably 100% true
        “You are a monster pretending to be nice like all sexual predators”———irrevocably true
        “you are choosing to promote evil.”—-undeniable true

      • amercrutio

        You retaliate by flagging posts that have been up over a week that no one else had any problem with. And they tell the truth which shows you are trying to silence the truth. That is fascism. See notice I didn’t call you a fascist just said that behavior is fascistic.

      • amercrutio

        The things you have said to me like calling me a closet homosexual are abusive, but you are blind to your own abuse.

      • amercrutio

        This has been re-written to satisfy your emotional needs.

        You do not know what paranoia is in clinical terms like almost everyone who uses the term. My knowledge of psychology is extensive. I have written a book proving that multiple personality does not exist. It is called Literature. Psychiatry and Psychology and I have explained it in another post here. So find it.

        Women generally find men having sex with men something to laugh at. This is what many have told me.
        I used to see movies of all types including adult. I would provide homosexual tapes by order only. A woman store owner made it very clear she and her friends would get together and laugh for some fun by viewing homosexual tapes.

        All my information is from homosexuals and their unfortunate wives so you are saying these people are paranoid and don’t know what they are talking about?That shows how insensitive you are to others.

        How would you know how heterosexuals find the thought. of homosexual sex. There is not a single heterosexual man I have talked to who did not agree that homosexual sex is disgusting. And of course my feeling are to be discounted. Your comments are hubristic.

        Your any male who opposes homoexuality is a homosexual, is deliberately insulting when you direct it at me and you do. And that is your intention. All men must really be homosexual?That is absurd. That is so vacuous. If I made the same argument for lesbians you yourself as an example prove it false by your own self description and shows you have no insight into yourself. It can be true for women but not for men?

        However, many men who have been introduced to homosexuality do not want to have that compulsion. And they fight it. These men do not need a smarty pants like you making it harder for them to deal with this serious developmental damage.

        You are really not that knowldgeable. Of course homosexuals want to associate with any males they can. And their perverted desire makes them sexually desire heterosexual men. The forbidden fruit. The thing they can’t have. The fantasy that titillates them. They like you desire to prove all men are homosexual. You are all unhappy with yourselves.

        You are very self congratulatory and ignore all the realities of the horror of homosexuality such as little boys can only be taught homosexual behavior by homosexuals. They cannot be taught homosexualtiy by heterosexuls as they do not practice that behavior.

        You are deliberately insulting and really a reprobate. More like a bad tempered person. Your last statement puts you in that category. The sharp tongued woman is a genuine type of woman. Women who like to say things that are intended to inflict emotional pain.
        As you yourself said homosexuals have primarily heterosexual social groups. But you make the suggestion that I must be homosexual because I have talked to so many homosexuals.
        Your mental manipulation shows you to be as much a problem to society as the homosexuals I was forced to associate with.
        The boys in my grammar school class with few exceptions made it clear they did not want to be homosexuals but they had been forced to do it from the crib and so could not stop themselves from the feelings that were ingrained on them. They did not know their parents were teaching them abnormal behavior. But when they got old enough they knew it was something they did not want to engage in but the compulsion is lifelong.

        You are unpalatable. Seeing my older brother come back from a Catholic boarding school and struggle his entire life with what was done to him is something you snicker about like all the psycho’s do. As he got older their came a point where he could not stop crying. You are a mischief maker. I have seen it firsthand with two brothers. I have seen it in the school I went to. I have seen it as an adult. Such as a woman confronting here unknown to her homosexual husband, in front of me, with her angst over his lying to her and having sex with males the entire time they were married. And her horror when he admitted he had started baby training their daughter by using her sucking motion to get oral sex. Clearly the infant was too young to know what was being done to her just like the male infants.
        I have seen it in the many adult males who have told me that they do not want to engage in homosexual sex and only want to have sex with women, but since that urge comes over them, they try to find a male like themselves so they can when they have to, have a male they can have sex with without anyone finding out. Your “in the close”t belief is really homosexual propaganda. Most are not in the closet, they do not want to be homosexuals and are trying not to engage in that sexual behavior they themselves find disgusting. As one homosexual put it to me, who would be like this unless they had to.
        Your lack of compassionate feelings for the psychological problems of these men is astounding. And says you were sexually abused as only women like the sexually perverted Joan Jett find something to snicker about in these people’s serious emotional distress.

        You are a pretender, pretending to be nice like all people who take undue advantage and their apologists. May God have mercy on your soul, but he won’t and shouldn’t as you are choosing to promote that which is unhealthy and abnormal.

        Have nice day!

      • TruthBeTold

        I can’t imagine why you would even attempt to respond to that. As a straight man, I’m highly offended.

      • amercrutio

        A straight man, huh. ROFLMAO
        And of course you do not provide any specifics, you intellectual you.
        And of course my response to him that destroys his arguments you ignore. This shows you are in denial.

    • Thomas Maher

      ?????????? what in the hell are you talking about?

      • amercrutio

        It is clear what I said and that is that Jesus is a made up story and it never happened. Total fiction.
        For instance, if the story of Jesus is unique, which it claims to be, then it would not have elements of things that are in other myths like virgin births and wise men to name only two things of the many that are identical to other myths. The story of Jesus is just that a story. All the disciples were illiterate and would have been long since dead by the time the New Testament was written. Illiterate dead men do not write anything. Nor of there images of Jesus from memory nor of his mother, his father, nor any of the disciples. This is not possible if he and they had actually lived.
        Not remotely possible.

        The Church is well aware of the fictional nature of Jesus. And if they would release all their docs esp. from the early mystery religions it would be easy to see.
        Priests do not even believe in their own religion otherwise you would not have little boys molested en mass. Also the priests don’t confess which means they do not believe in their own religion even though confession is required by priests, the church didn’t know these men were homosexual before they entered the priesthood even though the backgrounds are examined(LOL), nor have any priests provided a list of the boys they molested. They are all phonies taking advantage of honest, God fearing people for their own practical needs from sex to material things like money and using the phony story of Jesus to do it.

  • Don Howson

    How do hermaphrodites fit into the one man, one woman model?

    • didil ais

      a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition…….

      the word abnormally was used in the context, just as people are born blind etc…. Are gays born gays? a lesbian dating a girl that has features of a guy…. a gay guy dating a guy that has features of a lady, wear what ladies wear, eg make uo high heels,… its better to date a real man instead of a woman that looks like a man and wears clothes made for men, and also wears strapons like they call it…. you can always date someone with a real penis…….. men take hormones , so they can grow boobs, instead of dating a man with boobs, is it not better dating a woman that was naturally born with boobs….

      its sick my dear

      • Don Howson

        How does this answer my question?

  • didil ais

    Paul is Jesus disciples and Jesus came to fulfil. so i believe his disciple was speaking on his behalf

    • Don Howson

      Was Paul at Jesus’ side every day of his life? He could have had a day off.

      • didil ais

        hahahaha, when humans want to sin or justify iniquity, they look for excuses , lolll…. do not be deceived fella, you , i mean you cannot fool God. a man reapeth what he soweth

      • jimmyblair

        You’re the typical religiously arrogant twat!

      • didil ais

        lol , little one you are ignorant, either you are gay or someone close to you is. Jesus can save you, you do not have to insult me

      • ReformedConservative

        Have you ever been prideful? Ever told a lie? Ever seen injustice and done nothing about it? Ever been mean or rude to someone, even without vocalizing it? Have you ever compared yourself to someone and wished you had something they had (material or not)? Have you ever lusted over something or someone? Ever eaten more than you should have? Ever used something other than God to fill a void in your life? Do you really think that a quick “I’m sorry Jesus” makes you any better than any other sinners in the world? When was the last time you sold ALL of your possessions to give to the poor? When was the last time you took a homeless person into your home and fed and clothed them and gave them a bed to sleep in?

        And hey, even if you HAVE done those things recently, Jesus still told you to keep your judgement to yourself. So unless you can come back with an in-depth exegetical study on homosexuality in the Bible instead of the eisegesis being spewed by christians country-wide, I suggest you keep your accusations of ignorance to yourself.

      • didil ais

        huhahahahahahahahahahaaaaa, nice text, your ignorance starts from the fact you do not know the meaning of JUDGEMENT OR TO JUDGE SOMEONE, i will once again take my time to explain to those like you that find it hard to understand…. i cannot jufdge because i have no power to, it is those that can enforce the laws like Judges and God that can judge… if i was to judge HOMOS, i might throw them into prison, have them flogged, etc , but i have no power to do so… what i do is try to constructively criticize wrong doing and give the person the opportunity to repent

        the difference between me and homos is because the bible says a righteous man will fall 7 times and seven times he will rise again, but iniquity perishes a sinner, DO YOU KNOW WHY? because when i sin, i know i have done so, i pray and repent but A GAY GUY OR HOMOS , do not admit it is a sin and because they do not think it is a sin, they cannot repent…. THAT DIFFERENTIATES A SINNER FROM HOMOS….

        JESUS SENT US TO THE WORLD TO BRING THE LOST SHEEP eg THE HOMOS AND THAT IS WHY WE PREACH TO THEM , SO THEY BECOME HOMO NO MORE..

        you want me to back it with an in depth study well my friend, before sodom and gomorrah were destroyed, Angels went to visit Lots and the men from sodom wanted Lots to bring out his visitors so they can have sex with, even though Lots offered them his virgin daughters, they still wanted the men instead….i can give you lots of examples but like i said , i might b a sinner and i know i am one and knowing you have sinned is the first step to repentance and forgiveness and trying not to sin no more, BUT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A WAY OF LIFE WHICH THE PEOPLE INVOLVED DO NOT SEE AS SIN, THEREFORE THEY CANNOT REPENT OR BE FORGIVEN…

        LASTLY I WILL SUPPORT MY VIEW WITH A PASSAGE FROM THE BIBLE ACTS 28;26 -28 26“ ‘Go to this people and say,

        “You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

        you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”

        27For this people’s heart has become calloused;

        they hardly hear with their ears,

        and they have closed their eyes.

        Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

        hear with their ears,

        understand with their hearts

        and turn, and I would heal them.’

        repent my son, knowing you sin, is the right step….

      • Michael Mckenna

        Does the comic you swear by not say “love thy neighbour: In other words love your enemy, Seems the ten commandment mean nothing to you. Judge and you will be judged SINNER!

      • didil ais

        comic?lol do you work as a clown sir? what is your definition of judge or judgement? can we on this forum pass judgement on others? and how are we hating? can you prove i hate others or are you just been a comic clown?

      • Dave

        The fact is no matter how much your dogma is undercut didil, Jesus isn’t subject to your hate, nor homosexuals subject to your pride and arrogance.

        Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality because it was never considered a sin.

      • Bella

        No, they didn’t “still want sex with the men”. They wanted sex with *angels*. The bible is actually very clear about that. They “lusted after other flesh”. That is, different beings. That phrase does not, and indeed cannot, refer to homosexuality, the very basis of which is attraction for the same (Homo) rather than other (not even as ‘other’ as the opposite gender).

      • didil ais

        what you are trying to say is the men of sodom knew Lots visitors were angels?????? the question is did Lots himself know his visitors were Angels????/#
        send me the particular verse you got your idea from.

        Regards

      • Bella

        VerseS, plural.

        1. Ezek. 16:49 describes Sodom and Gomorrah’s sin as lack of care for the poor and needy (this and inhospitality were both seen as aspects of injustice; the more different someone was, the greater the moral imperative to treat them hospitably).
        2. Matt 10:15 and Luke 10:12 – Jesus likens towns who were inhospitable towards the disciples with S & G.
        3. Jude 7 – the phrase translated as “unnatural desire” is, in the Greek, “sarkos heteras”, which means “other flesh”. It was never used about the same species, because “heteras” means other/different. And Jude 8 makes it clear that this was about angels (“heap abuse on celestial beings”).

        So if you’re using (as good exegesis should) scripture to interpret scripture, it’s very clear that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality.

      • amercrutio

        You even want to re-interpret the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. So anything means whatever you decide it means? That is called rationalizing.

      • Bella

        Elsewhere in the thread I’ve cited other verses of the bible as justification for that interpretation of the Sodom and Gomorrah story. Go and read Jude 6-7 – it’s quite clear. And then add in Ezek. 16:49 and Matt.10:15.

      • amercrutio

        Justifying homosexuality shows a lack of understanding what homosexuality is. Your using Bible references as justification shows you just want to play mental gymnastics as there are Bible verses that can justify just about anything. However, right and wrong are very clear except to people who have ulterior motives.

    • jimmyblair

      “so i believe his disciple was speaking on his behalf” Just because you believe something does not make it a fact!

      • didil ais

        well nothing separates Jesus and his teachings or that of the ones he chose in the bible. its either you believe in them all, or you believe in none… God my friend cannot be fooled

      • Dave

        But Jesus didn’t choose them to present an oral tradition that would be bastardized over millenia by various unnamed sources and interpreters. Don’t be foolish by pretending others are fools if you don’t understand this basic reality.

    • Bella

      Firstly, that doesn’t mean he always got it right, and secondly, how does that apply at the times when Paul specifically said “It’s not God saying this, it’s me.”?

      • didil ais

        lol, you humans, Galatians 6:8 God cannot be fooled, do not be deceived. the bible is our link to Jesus, anyone that tries to doubt his teaching or that of his disciples cannot indirectly want to have access to Jesus. Take it or leave he, Jesus himself said he came to fulfil the scriptures and the scriptures says homosexuality is a sin. its either you believe in Jesus and the bible or you believe in none. you cannot believe in Jesus and question the teaching of his disciples , especially the one that met with him face to face on his way to Damascus.

      • Bella

        That doesn’t answer the question.

        Nor does it explain why those who argue that line don’t go by the rules of the WHOLE bible, in its entirety, instead of cherrypicking specific bits.

      • Dave

        “the Bible is our link to Jesus” except that Jesus never says that, because how could He? Most of the stuff attributed to Him was written AFTER His death. That logic makes no appreciable sense.

        Now if you want to say the Bible tells us things about Jesus, that’s better. But there is no connection between Him and Paul, for instance, except Paul (a Pharisee who persecuted early Christians) having a “magical vision”.

        We must discern, and faith without merit must be treated as the lie that it is. Homophobia (and much of contemporary Christianity) has nothing to do with the Teacher. Greed is justified, hate is justified, and Jesus spoke out against both at length. His disciples did. Paul did. Worshipping idols (especially the apostles who I would think would be appalled!) is specifically called out by Christ as one of His 2 commandments. Do you know the other?

      • amercrutio

        He didn’t get it right, but you do? LOL.
        Very self righteous. You are the only one who knows right from wrong? Really? That is pretty hubristic wouldn’t’ you say? Well, I guess you wouldn’t.

  • Tamlew

    Right, sin is sin and every sin is equally heinous because all of it separates us from God because He is holy. Sin cannot exist in His presence, so if you want to be in His presence you need a remedy for your sin. Praise God we have one; the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Repent, accept Him as your savior and be reconciled to Him. He will apply His holiness to you and you will be saved…. But, it is utter nonsense to say “Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality.” The ENTIRE word of God is the words of Jesus. Jesus is God. There is no separation between Jesus and the Father…. “I and the Father are one.” said Jesus. It’s so laughable that people actually think the only words of Jesus in the Bible are the red letters! All of the Bible is God/Jesus breathed, inspired, and the revelation of the mind and heart of God/Jesus. And, what He tells us in the Bible is for our benefit, so we can be safe and live forever in beauty, goodness, kindness, mercy, love, peace and joy. None of it is to condemn us or exile us. The heart of God longs to be pursued, loved, understood and enjoyed so He can raise us up out of the things that are killing us. Selah….

    • JuliePurple

      If you accept the premises that:
      1) God is everywhere, and
      2) sin cannot exist in God’s presence,
      then the only logical conclusion is that sin does not exist.

      • Tamlew

        Ha Ha! That’s pretty good Julie. At least it shows you’re thinking. :-D … But actually, and obviously, sin can and does exist in this dimension. All we have to do is look around, and look within, to see sin. And it is true that in this dimension, that is, within the created universe, God is omnipresent. But, what that means is that there is no where in the universe one can go where God can’t see you or know what you’re doing and thinking. . . The place where God cannot co-exist with sin is the dimension that we enter when we leave this dimension. Upon death we enter the dimension in which God fully exists. It’s there that sin can’t be present. What happens when someone with sin still on them enters the presence of God in the next age is that the glory of God burns the sin and the person the sin is on. This is the fire of “hell” that perpetually burns for eternity. They don’t burn up. They burn forever.

      • JuliePurple

        Thank you for your thoughtful response, but either God is *everywhere*, or he isn’t. That means in all dimensions. And either sin can exist in his presence, or it can’t. I appreciate that you’ve thought about this, but the conclusion you’ve reached is not logical. So either
        1) god isn’t everywhere,
        2) sin can exist in his presence, or
        3) there is no sin.
        All the talking around it in the world can’t make any other conclusion logical.

      • Tamlew

        Well then it would be more accurate to say that in the next age if you want to be with God you need a remedy for your sin because you will not be able to be with God (and all goodness) if you are still in your sin.
        It is a bit annoying that you majored on a minor point here and missed the whole point of the gospel…. But that’s just me being impatient. :-D

        The Bible clearly teaches that God is morally perfect and holy, that he hates sin. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. Christians often say that God cannot allow any sin in his presence.

        But, this is not the whole story. There are also several instances in the Bible where Satan and other demons are said to be in God’s presence (e.g., Job 1:6; 2 Chron. 18:18-21; Rev. 12:10). In addition, the prophet Isaiah, himself a sinful man, was in the presence of God, as recorded in Isaiah 6.

        We also know that God is omnipresent, which means he is present everywhere. “‘Am I only a God nearby,’ declares the Lord, ‘and not a God far away? Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?’ declares the Lord. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ declares the Lord” (Jer. 23:23-24). If he is present everywhere then he cannot but be in the presence of sinful creatures.

        So what are we to make of all this? I think the simple answer is that Habakkuk 1:13 is a commentary on God’s moral perfection and holiness. It is not meant to be a statement about his physical presence. In fact, the full rendering is, “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil.” But we know God does not literally have eyes! God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence.

        The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. We know that eventually he will quarantine evil from good when he creates the New Heaven and Earth (Rev. 21). At that time, God will physically separate those who love him from those who don’t. Those who love him will no longer be in the presence of sin from that point forward.

        Until then, God tolerates the presence of sin in order to accomplish his purposes with mankind. Thank goodness, because if God truly could not be in the presence of sin, none of us would be here!

      • didil ais

        I JUST EXPLAINED IT TO HER, BUT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND… REMINDS ME OF ACTS 28 : 26 – 28 “‘Go to this people and say,“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
        you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
        27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
        they hardly hear with their ears,
        and they have closed their eyes.
        Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
        hear with their ears,
        understand with their hearts
        and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

        THERE ARE CERTAIN PEOPLE WHOSE HEARTS ARE HARDENED

      • Julie Purple

        didil ais, you mistake the situation. There is a vast difference between a “hardened” heart, and a logical mind. It appears that there are certain people who are so determined not to think, that they avoid even the appearance of contemplating a different way of viewing things.
        It amuses me that you complain to Tamlew. by the way. Is that your alternative to thinking it through yourself?

      • didil ais

        for the last time Julie i have tried to answer all your questions but every time you say it does not answer the question, now for the LAST TIME, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW, ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION AND YOU WILL GET A SIMPLE ANSWER. ITS EITHER YOU REALLY WANT AN ANSWER OR YOU ARE JUST PLAYING AROUND. its as simple as that……. just ask the question and lets see if i do not give you a suitable answer….

      • Julie Purple

        My apologies, didil ais;
        my point was not phrased clearly enough. The question was implied when I stated it as premises and conclusion, instead of asking the question directly. Therefore, to restate the issue:
        Given the assertions that:
        1) God is everywhere
        and
        2) sin cannot exist in God’s presence,
        and the conclusion that:
        therefore either sin does not exist, or it can exist in God’s presence.
        My question is this:
        How do you explain the inconsistency in Tamlew’s
        statement: “Sin cannot exist in His presence”?

        I also apologize for not understanding that your comments about my lack of understanding and statements about why sin can exist in God’s presence, except that it can, were intended to be an answer. From that, it seems that you are saying that God is not everywhere, but only in “heaven”, is that correct?

        Your statement that, (as you wrote), “sin can exist in his presence, and there is no sin”; I simply found confusing

      • didil ais

        thanks for your reply Julie, i very much like your polite nature and i am also sorry if i sounded rude in any way….

        the answer is NO, God cannot dwell everywhere, people or many Christians might say he is everywhere , what they actually mean is he sees everything , and its only when you are somewhere you can witness what happened there, but with the help of CCTV for example i do not have to be in a particular place to be a witness to a crime

        , The Holy Spirit was sent after JESUS to dwell in the hearts of those that want him and to help humans find their way to God… the right phrase is God sees everything but he does not dwell everywhere , because he cannot dwell in sin. When light comes, darkness departs.

        That is why i gave you the example of Holy of holies, (

        Holy of Holies

        The Holy of Holies is a term in the Hebrew Bible which refers to the inner sanctuary of the Tabernacle where God dwelt and later the Temple in Jerusalem where the Ark of the Covenant was kept) Now what happened in the bible was ,a little sin prevents him from coming down to dwell in the HOLY of holies like i stated earlier.

        CONCLUSION

        God sees everything, he knows everything, nothing is hiding from him, but he does not dwell everywhere , if so he will be in Hell now too, but no that is not the case, but whatever we do or whatever the devil does is not hidden from him…… He lives in heaven, that is why Jesus said he was going back to his father, and sending us the Holy Ghost to guide and lead us, but has the possibility of seeing everything we do and when needed he intervenes.

        One thing God will not do is take away our free will, so interfering in our affairs is not his way… One more thing and i think this is very important, God or the holy spirit has the possibility of dwelling in us humans, but there are some that are demonic possessed and in those people God cannot dwell, one has to give way to the other, and that is another example he does not dwell everywhere like in sin, but that does not mean his presence (which can be him looking down from heaven or the holy spirit using his disciples on earth to preach to you ,)is not there…. if there are furthers question please be free to ask

      • Julie Purple

        Hello, Didil ais. I hope you had a niceweekend. My husband and I participated in an art exhibition, and we had a great time!

        Now back to the topic… Thank you for your detailed efforts to explain. I appreciate it. And now I can see that you disagree with one of my basic premises, which is that
        God is everywhere.

        But I have a problem with the idea that God does not exist everywhere, because of the underlying assumption, which is that something exists that is not God. Because if you grant that at the very beginning of things, there was nothing at all in existence except God, and that God created everything, then the only material he had to work with was himself, since there was nothing else. So logically, then, everything that exists is part of God, and God is everywhere.
        Do you see where I’m coming from?

        As for the rest of your explanation, about Jesus and the rest, let’s leave that for the moment, because that’s yet *another* a long discussion. Maybe we can get to that after we’ve finished with this one?

      • didil ais

        1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

        hello, thanks for the reply, i hope you both had fun at the exhibition…

        if i understand your question very well, you said if God created everything, he had to create everything from himself, which means if everything was created from God because he only had himself to work with, it means everything God created has God in it….

        if i got your question right, i will like to start by saying MAN for example was not directly made from God, he took clay and said let us make man in our image, a robot might look like man but it is not man, although God breath into man to give man life, neither body, nor blood of man was directly from God. YOU might argue that breathing into man could mean a part of him went into man, but could he have spoken to bring man to life? well the answer is yes if you believe he is as mighty as we claim. Woman on the other hand was directly made from man….

        if i donate blood, the person that recieves the blood needs the blood at that time, but does the blood remain in him forever? if i give someone first aid by mouth to mouth ….. does the air i breathe in him to bring him to life remain in him forever?

        i just got back from work and if you are there i am very free and willing to answer all your questions today

      • Julie Purple

        Hello, Didil ais. Thanks for the good wishes, and for the willingness to work together for an understanding.
        Now, about God creating man from clay, surely you realize that that is just one of the world’s many different creation myths? Or, at best, a metaphor? Men and women evolved just as all the other life forms evolved.
        Of course, if you believe that the bible is the literal truth, rather than simply the best guesses, tribal taboos, and legends of an iron age tribe, then I regret to say that there is no point in our continuing our discussion about it If that is the case, then I will not waste your time or mine, but wish you well as you go on your way.

      • didil ais

        greetings to you Julie, my answer was to the question you asked. i gave a direct answer to your question of God been everywhere, there is no course for regret because uptil now you have not mentioned science or evolution, you have always limited your questions to God been everywhere and sin not existing and i have in my best knowledge answered your questions……

        if you want to take the issue to science you should always be clear about what the question or topic is. we all have our opinions , and we are entitled to them…. that is what makes us humans……… there are several questions science has not answered and if that is what you want to discuss, feel very free to bring it on..

        you might call the story of the creation metaphor, it is your opinion , but has science actually told you how humans developed different languages and how it is possible humans during the course of evolution developed over 100 languages ….. so many unanswered questions but the fact is we all want to acquire knowledge….

        i will appreciate you asking questions directly.you should not be irritated when you get answers to questions….

        Beliefs , religion keeps us humans going. you might have experienced cases were you admit it is only a miracle that could keep the individual involved alive, there was a plane crash last week where it was just a three month old baby that survived, you think science can answer such questions?

        the issue of life after death remains a mystery but we have seen people coming out of operation and telling stories that they definitely could not know about…. whether we like it or not, before humans there was science, humans created nothing, everything we use to build , that we call technology was there before we came, we just acquired the knowledge of how to use them….

        in the days our forefathers used stones to make fire, there were already things available to build cooker or stoves. during the times wars were fought with swords and stones, the technology to build drones, war heads were already there….

        your evolution story tells us man was not like we are today, so clearly this is not the end, man in millions of years , that is if a war does not destroy the earth, will be different from how we look today, am i right?

        i know fossils has been discovered and man has conducted test, but can you precisely give accounts of events that happened millions of years before you existed…….

        either ways lots of questions remain unanswered on both sides and the truth is we all have to do what we feel best , that keeps us going… what i love about my bible is Jesus teaching on love, so if the bible is fake, one thing that will or would have made the world a better place free from wars, guns, discrimination, is his teaching of love… that alone is enough reason for me to follow his teachings

      • Julie Purple

        Hi, Didil ais. Gosh, I’m not irritated at all. I appreciate your efforts at clarification. But see, here’s my difficulty. You are sharing your ideas about how the universe got here, and I am sharing mine. You are using the bible as a reference for your comments. You are not speaking from your own direct experience and understanding. I also do not speak from my own direct experience, because I did not personally see all the fossils, study the geography, carbon dated evidence, and so on. Scientists did that, and shared their results with the rest of us. It is common knowledge in the modern world. So I do not think it is unfair for me to use my sources as a reference, do you see what I mean?

        Now, here is the main thing as I see it: I do not accept that the bible is literal truth, and you do not accept scientific findings. Given those two points, I really don’t see that there is any point in our saying anything else to each other about this except that we agree to disagree, and wish each other well.

        All those other points you raised do have explanations besides religious ones, but following your example, I note that you are also mentioning things that are not the point of the discussion.

        I agree that we all have to do what seems best to us. And there is nothing wrong with teaching love, but it is found in many other places besides the bible, and from many other teachers besides Jesus. To me, the important thing is to heed the message. Whatever source works for you is a good one.

      • didil ais

        you see i kind of like the way you did it, one could think you wanted to know more about God and the bible , because you never mentioned science in all your questions,,,

        well i disagree with you on the issue of love,… moses wanted an eye for an eye, the modern day man does same, otherwise there will not be wars, it is only Jesus that teaches you to give the other side of the face to a person that slaps you, it is the same Jesus that asked peter not to fight with those who came to arrest him….

        well like you rightly said, you have your views , i have mine, but you will also agree with me that nothing man created from the knowledge he got was good, its either it destroys the climate , or they keep making weapons that can destroy nations in minutes … is man really better of civilized or modern as you call it? the end will tell

        in conclusion, i had a very great discussion with you, do not be deceived, i believe in science and technology, they have helped saved lives, kidney transplant etc did not exist years ago, but what you have to know is , these things science build on existed before man,

        Regards

      • Julie Purple

        Hi, didil ais. (by the way, that is an interesting name!)…
        I never said once that I wanted to know about the bible. I stated premises and a conclusion, and it went on from there. I can understand, though, that considering your preferences, you would interpret it as that way,since that is your reference.

        As for others who taught about love, there is the Buddha, Lao Tzu, and many others in different traditions all over the world. But I absolutely agree about Moses! ;-)

        I am afraid that I don’t agree that nothing man created from his/her knowledge was good. You yourself mentioned modern medicine. And of course it is based on things that have existed before humans came into the mix! The whole planet was here before we were! What science does is simply to learn about the world as it is! Because while it utilizes what has been in existence for a long time, the knowledge to use it is something we are still learning. That is the cool thing about science: it knows that we still have a lot to learn, so it studies and learns. We have been learning for thousands of years, and we are still learning. The people depicted in the bible did not have the benefits of modern scoemce, and so ascribed things to supernatural forces. There’s nothing wrong with that; they did the best they could with what they had learned so far. But we know better today.

        But it is true that humans as a totality are responsible for climate change, wars, and many other ills. However, humans are also responsible for great works of art, humanitarian efforts, and great kindness. This is true in all cultures across the world. Humans are a mix.

        And now I’m turning off my computer for the evening. Have a good night!

      • didil ais

        thanks for d compliment, just one thing i think needs correction

        (The people depicted in the bible did not have the benefits of modern scoemce, and so ascribed things to supernatural forces.}

        {The whole planet was here before we were! What science does is simply to learn about the world as it is! Because while it utilizes what has been in existence for a long time, the knowledge to use it is something we are still learning.}

        ………………. is it not funny? so the world exist already the way it is, but knowledge to use science the way we do now was hidden from the so called people of the past….. man did not suddenly become more intelligent, man just discovered how to use what was there already.

        {As for others who taught about love, there is the Buddha, Lao Tzu, and many others in different traditions all over the world.}

        …….it is funny you name religious leaders , although u consider religion not to be true, but name religious leaders when talking about peace, meanwhile those that developed or created science cannot be named when talking about love and peace….. it starts from forceful taking over of countries due to greed, enslaving those considered inferior , it took them years to know the black man , was not different from the white man, even those considered civilized and modern, still practice discrimination, because it is still hard for them to understand that there are no difference in humans……. while the so called outdated religious leaders realized years ago there is no benefit war, America supported by those weapon lobby , still sells the most guns…… civilisation starts by knowing you have no authority to take what you cannot make.

        The fact is humans in d course of time has not changed, they only know or seek God in trouble… those that pretend no to believe have been heard praying in difficult times, i have seen some pray due to huge turbulence, etc… MAN, what do you expect from them anyways, when science fails and they are left alone,. they suddenly remember God……….

        But in all respect is the key. whatever we believe on…. the reason we commented on this article is about Jesus take on homosexuality….. i think the reason we are on this discussions is because of stories we hear about homosexual partners wanting to marry in the church,… i think Christianity is liberal enough for them to have such wishes which i think they cannot have while dealing with other religion, will a homosexual request marriage in the mosque?or will they request marriage in the Buddhist temple? the church has become an object everyone violates because contrary to the belief of old, the church is now very liberal and even accepts gay priest……………

        no gay person should complain when the church refuses to conduct marriage for them, the society has accepted them and they can now get married in the courts. wanting church marriages is just provocation.

        Regards

      • Julie Purple

        Hi, Didil ais. I agree, the people in the bible did not have
        the benefits of modern science, and made up stories to account for what they did not understand. Scientific knowledge came gradually as people learned more and more. It’s not that the knowledge was hidden, but rather that the people of the time hadn’t discovered it yet. But I
        think we are basically in agreement there, yes? That is to say, we both agree that people learned more as time went on.
        As for naming religious leaders, well, this is a site about belief systems. It seemed logical to cite people from that
        context. I never said that I consider religion not to be “true”. It is true that there are different religions all over the world. What I said was that few religious systems base their doctrine on factual evidence. Big difference. And while doctrine may not be based on factual evidence, there is still often much of merit in the systems. For example, teaching about love and peace is good, no matter what the basis.
        The part about developed nations, science, and so forth is a serious non sequitur, but I’ll address it anyway, here: slavery existed, and was condoned, in biblical times. Greed existed in biblical times. It is in *modern* times
        that slavery is coming to be seen more commonly as something not acceptable. Of course it still happens,
        but as it is brought to light, and rejected, gradually it changes.

        For the record, I believe that there have been marriages of same-sex partners in different religions. There are so many different varieties of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and so forth. Some are rigid and fundamentalist, some are liberal and more humanitarian. It is unfair to say that same sex couples wanting to be married in a religious service is “just provocation”.
        There are many religious gay people. It is understandable that a religious service would be meaningful to them. Don’t take this the wrong way, but
        it is not up to you to decide for them how to believe. That is a very personal choice. The fact that you consider it to be provoking says something about you, not them.

      • didil ais

        CHRISTIANITY IS THE BELIEF IN JESUS, follow his ways, the word was taken from christ…. Gay people were condemned not by me, but in the bible… it is a provocation because the bible does not accept them . if islam does not accept my ways, will i force myself on them? no… the fact your president , who no one knows his religion , decided to allow the gay rights , does not mean they have to pollute the church, it is just not fair, they will never try it in the mosque but yet because we christians have passed the age of violence . everyone think they can violate it,,,

        we are not in agreement on the creation story, like i stated, if anyone stole from anybody, it was science that stole from the bible…. read the creation story, the bible might have made it look like it all took place in 6 days , but the manner the events happened like animals coming before man, is strongly supported by science… now if the writewrs were stupid, how did they know this…..

        let me enlighten u too, in the days where your science thought the earth was flat, the book of isiah long before Jesus already spoke of a round shaped earth, meanwhile your science took a whole lot to know the earth is not flat

      • Julie Purple

        Didil ais, you have so many non sequiturs, illogical
        statements, and downright falsehoods there that it would take me over an hour to address them all. And from my
        experience, that would only generate more silliness from you.

        But there is one thing on which we agree: we are not in agreement. Whether or not you leave it at that, is up to
        you. But I’m done. Again, I wish you well.

      • didil ais

        may i ask please you a question, please do not be offended, i just want an honest answer, this site is for spiritual seekers, now you visit this site and even ask questions about God, although you do not believe in God, is there a reason for that?

        secondly you ask questions get answers but suddenly feel its not worth discussing because we share separate views and its a waste of time…… you should have known from the beginning or are you trying to make Christians realize their belief is bull…. although your science still has more unanswered questions and most scientist know although it cannot be proven there is GOD but in the same way it cannot be proven there is no GOd…..

      • Julie Purple

        Didil ais, I am not offended by an honest question. Here is
        my honest answer:

        I never said I do not believe in god. Don’t assume that
        because my belief differs from yours, that it is nonexistent. Not believing that the bible is accurate and not believing in god are two very, very different things.

        Secondly, please recall the beginning of the discussion. I address what seemed to me to be an inconsistency in logic. When I realized what you were basing your conclusions on, I realized that there is insufficient shared data on which to base a discussion. I learned this as we progressed in our discussion.

        Not all Christians believe as you do. This website is from a Catholic source. The official Catholic stance accepts
        evolution, and does not see the bible as literal truth (see the Busted Halo article, “Bible Boot Camp”).

        And yes, of course scientists know that they don’t have all the answers. That is why they keep looking! And as you said, whether or not god exists is something that cannot be proven.

      • didil ais

        there are lots of gods out there, so i do not know which you believe in. my God is the christian God and whoever is not a christian has a different God as mine… in africa there are over 1000 gods, so we cannot generalize GOD,,

        that been said, if a scientist claims he knows what happened billions of years ago, when he cannot actually tell what happened during the time of his grand dad that died before he was born, well we have to accept that with scepticism ,,,,

        u claim not all christians believe like i do, that is very wrong…. the fact there are lots of wolves in sheep clothing does not make us one,,, what is the definition of christian? christianity is not a religion, the society tries to make it one, but christianity is far from that/…. the bible says those that followed christ in antioch were called christians…. you cannot claim to be a christian which also means christ-like , and share a different view as christ or doubt Jesus christ…. that is ignorance and a waste of time.

        evolution you say, well let me shock you, pls pay attention to this, you called those that wrote the bible iron aged fellas, ignorant i guess , beliefs in the supernatural…. have you taken your time to study the creation? the world might not have been created in 6 days, but the bibles description of what came first and what followed is exactly how science describes evolution… the only difference is in science it takes billions of years, while in the bible it was just 6 days, ///// if i am correct, does that mean whoever positioned each thing that was created in such manner was not stupid? in a time you call the iron age?

        like i said, homo sapiens sapiens like your science calls it has not changed its form since the time of our fathers abraham or moses, man has always been as wise as we are, they just did not discover what we had the luck to know now

      • Julie Purple

        Wow, Didil ais, you seem angry. Bummer. I’ll just address one point here, because I’m about to turn off the computer for the night.

        “Iron Age” is a standard term for the civilization that existed in biblical times. It is not pejorative. It simply notes the degree of technological advancement.

        And for the record, humans have indeed changed over time. The evolutionary timeline of homo sapiens from its predecessors is a rather interesting study. I made no assertion that any of the members of the species has been stupid. There is a vast difference between stupidity and simple lack of information. If one merely lacks information, then one can learn. If one is stupid, however, one fails to learn from what has been discovered. Big difference. Early humans had to be quite intelligent to survive and propagate in harsh circumstances. Learning plays a big part in that survival.

        When you said “not all christians believe like i do is wrong”, I’m not sure what you meant. Are you saying that not all Christians believe that you are wrong?

        And yes, Christianity is indeed a religion. Why would you say that it isn’t?

      • didil ais

        what i meant is , the meaning of christianity is follower of christ, christ-like……….. you cannot reject the teaching of jesus and claim to be a christian… it is pure ignorance that will make someone do that…. i will be foolish to claim i am a muslim , when i have no connection to mohammed, the society might try to change things, but the truth is, those who follow him are the christians.

        Angry, lol. very farrr from it………… so what you are trying to say is those who will live after us will now be the higher developed man? lol, is that not funny? Darwin must be a genius.

        compare the story of the creation, how everything was made . one after the other, and tell me apart from time, what differences it has to evolution… if they are similar , just the 6 days theory of the bible that differentiates it, then one must have stolen from the other , or those that wrote the creation must have been very very intelligent, considering it was written thousand of years ago

      • Bella

        I’ve been following with interest your discussion with Julie Purple, but it seems to me that at this point you ignored the point of her question and her reply didn’t pursue it.

        You appeared to agree that in the beginning there was nothing but God. But then you said that God made man out of clay. So where did the clay come from? Surely according to your doctrine that, too, was created by God?

      • didil ais

        hello Bella, thanks for joining the discussion… i did not ignore her question… her question was if God created everything from nothing, he had himself alone to work with…. i answered by saying not necessarily, man for example was not directly from God…. read carefully please…. i do not run away from questions

      • Bella

        I can’t see that whether it was direct or indirect matters to her point. She said, if God created from himself, then God must be in everything. Now if one of the first things God created was clay, then God’s in the clay. And if God then uses clay to create something else (for argument’s sake let’s say it was man) then God is also in man.

        The peril of NOT accepting that God continues to remain at the same level in each subsequent stage of created things is that you make women less god-filled than men, which most emphatically wasn’t Jesus’ attitude.

      • didil ais

        firstly Julie did not ask the question because she believes in God, she thinks the bible is bullcrap and was trying to test our intelligence…

        Secondly can you point out were i made mention of women been less God filled, because our argument was never based on that.

        Thirdly you claim to have followed our argument but you clearly deviate from it, the issue was her trying to prove either God does not exist or sin does not exist……. our conversation has nothing to do with a womans worth… pls read carefully

      • Bella

        I’m saying the logical extension of your line of argument, if you don’t accept her premise that God is in all created matter equally, is gender inequality.

        And you’ve also presumed her position. Believing in science over a literal Creation account is not the same as “thinking the bible is bullcrap”.

      • Julie Purple

        Thank you, Bella!

      • Julie Purple

        Didil ais, where did you get the idea that I was trying
        to test your intelligence? How strange!

        Actually, Bella had a good point, and it is one which has been insufficiently dealt with.

      • didil ais

        lol really insufficiently dealt with, yet you say there is no room for discussion because we are wasting our time… if you need answers you will not tell me to end the conversation, you will ask more…. i get it, it is the christian version that is insufficiently dealt with, should we ask you questions on science, so you can sufficiently deal with it and save us all?

      • Julie Purple

        You misquoted me. I didn’t say there is no room for
        discussion: I said that you keep avoiding the issue.

        And it makes no sense to ask questions from someone who refuses to answer in a rational, coherent way.

        Save us all from what? The Adam and Eve story is a myth. There is nothing to be saved from.

      • didil ais

        that is your view, u are entitled to have one, i am entitled to have mine, and if you do not believe in it, we do not believe in the same God, are you ready to answer questions regarding evolution?

      • didil ais

        insufficiently dealt with? well then ask , instead of claiming we have different views and as such there is no reason to discuss further………… i personally have a lot of questions regarding the very modern intelligent version of life, will you be ready to answer them? i have been on the receiving side and i guess it fair to trade places, what do you think?

      • Julie Purple

        Didil ais, I have already stated my question, and your introducing additional topics is a smokescreen for the lack of a coherent reply. Your continued avoidance of the point is the reason I am giving up on the discussion. There’s only so much time I’m willing to give to it without getting a rational response.

      • didil ais

        lol, what topic, avoidance?seriously? one minute you say we agree on something , the next minute you say i am avoiding your questions…. basically what you want is for me to believe in what you believe in and that is the only way we can discuss, well i am sorry, that is not possible and we all have free will, so its left to you continue doubting the bible, but you are not ready to answer any questions on science, or are u?because there are a lot of fairy tales, i will want clarification….. now lets be fair…. you ask your question now for the last time for the whole community to see, and when i am done with answering it, i will ask you a question too………….

        i do not have to be of the same mind set with you, and the reason people discuss , is when they are not of the same mind set, people of the same mind set do not argue…

        ask your question, the one you feel i have not answered, if there is any….

        Regards

      • didil ais

        you asked if God was everywhere, i said NO… he does not dwell in sin. i even gave you the example of a cctv…. what other question am i avoiding?

      • didil ais

        have fun, you know it better, all you do is get people that think the way you do… no need arguing with you further,,,, the topic is JESUS and homosexuality, Jesus and the bible does not like homosexuality, if you are one of them repent, Jesus can save you, if you are not one of them or feel you do not need him, then its better you look for those that think like you and not comment on peoples views, pretending to ask questions, meanwhile you try to impose your belief on them….

        you know better , but shy away from answering questions , because you are scared you know nothing… good luck and God bless,whatever god u believe in….

        prove you are as clever as you claim and answer questions instead of disagreeing with what others say… it will be nice to know how much you really know, but i know your kind…. have a good and funny life

      • Julie Purple

        My goodness, Tamlew, I am amazed at the lengths to which you exert yourself to avoid answering a simple question.

      • Tamlew

        What question Julie? I saw no question. I am going to great lengths to explain what the Bible teaches, Reality…

      • Julie Purple

        I guess you didn’t see my response to didil ais, below. In it, I clarified what I meant.
        As for your explaining what the bible teaches, I see now why we are not coming to a meeting of the minds. If that is the only source you are using, and accepting that as the literal truth, then I do not wonder that we have different points of view! :-) If that is the case, that you are only using the bible rather than what has been learned in the time up until now, then we can abandon our attempts to reach a consensus, don’t you think? And I wish you well.

      • Tamlew

        This is a goofy article since all the words in the Bible are from Jesus who is God… The God who spoke the world into existence and the God who gets to decide what works and what doesn’t, what is beneficial and what isn’t, what is right and wrong in the universe He created. It’s silly to have a discussion about what Jesus thought regarding any subject without using the entire Bible as reference…

        But, you are free to reject Jesus….

        That is fine with me. But be warned, utter destruction is coming upon this world. Soon the true believers in Christ and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of this world. This is exactly what the world that hates to be reminded that sin is sin wants. . . A world without God or Christians. If the Bible is true and this really happens (and I utterly believe it is) you will be left to be devoured by satan. At this time you WILL be able to repent from your sins and be saved but very probably only under the threat of death, probably beheading…. I hope you turn and repent from your sin and return to Jesus at this time so you can be eternally safe with Him in all love, beauty, peace and joy….Take care.

      • Julie Purple

        Assuming that anyone rejects Jesus because of not believing that the bible is literal truth is a bit of a leap. Actually, there are a number of leaps in the message, but that’s a topic for another day. :-)
        Anyhow, all your fairy-tale-based hyperbole and threats aside, I wish you well.

      • Tamlew

        Anyone who says they believe in the Word Incarnate, Jesus while rejecting the Written Word of God, The Bible is either a liar or a fool.

      • Julie Purple

        Two things you are missing here.
        One, I never said one way or the other whether I believed the stories about Jesus. I merely stated that accepting Jesus and accepting the bible are two different things.

        And two, there are more ways of looking at traditional writings than you seem to be aware. For example, many people believe that Jesus was an actual historical personage, while dismissing biblical tales as fantasy.

        Liar or fool? Here’s a hint: in order to have productive, respectful conversations, try to leave out the more inflammatory comments. Just sayin’.

      • Tamlew

        You are either being disingenuous or you’re just not thinking this through… If Jesus was merely “a historical personage” and what the Bible says about Him is mere fantasy, then it doesn’t matter what Jesus thinks about homosexuality or anything else…

        As far as leaving out inflammatory comments, it’s profoundly inflammatory to set yourself up above the living God and mock Him and His people.

        And finally, and crucially important, Jesus cannot be divorced from the Bible. It is the written Word of God that is the ONLY source informing humans as to the reality and nature of the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ…. Anything else is just making up your own Lego-Land, which you are free to do, but don’t pretend to be making an informed decision regarding what Jesus thinks about anything, let alone, homosexuality. Jesus is God and inspired, approves of, generated and conserves and protects His Written Word, not just the red letters.

      • Julie Purple

        Wow, you seem really upset. Bummer.

        Anyhow, I *have* thought it through. A lot. And you’re right, a lot of what the bible says about him really is fantasy, or rather, what the people of the time wished to emphasize. That’s logical, and I’m happy to see that you have come to the same conclusion.

        Again, not believing that the bible is literal truth and mocking or setting myself above… well, very different things. It is perhaps a subtle distinction for some people, but it is a significant one, nevertheless.

        I understand that you see Jesus as being deeply connected to the bible. But to say that “he cannot
        be divorced from the bible” is simply not true. Parts of the bible were written well before he came onto the scene, and all of the parts relating to him came well after him, and much of it is made up, as you say, in “Lego Land”. Look, it’s fine for you to believe as you
        wish. Nothing wrong with that. But to expect others to interpret evidence (or, in the case of Jesus and the bible, lack of evidence) in the same way is not only wishful thinking, but irrational.

        We disagree. Let’s leave it at that. And by the way, you have answered my question: you are now saying that sin *can* exist in his presence.

      • Tamlew

        keep building your own lego land…. the false reality you’re insisting on believing in and promoting has nothing to do reality…. I am so grateful that God will not be moved or changed by idiots like you who want to make him somebody who approves of perversion. again I repeat if Jesus Christ is not God and is only somebody from history it doesn’t matter what he said about anything. why don’t you stop trying to promote nonsense and go see what’s on TV you seem to have been completely programmed by that sort of programming

      • Dave

        Well said Julie – don’t worry – there are those who refuse to commit to a genuine discussion, which isn’t even evangelism, but promotion of cult like thinking.

        They merely use the space hoping someone will be taken in by their muddled responses. It fails almost always.

      • didil ais

        let me answer this God is everywhere, Sin can exist in his presence and there is no sin…….. God has a fatherly role in our lives and although he hates sin , he has become very tolerant through the death of his son Jesus…. you as a child sinned or did things in the presence of your parents , you were clearly not allowed to do, but the thing is the role is to discipline or mostly forgive you. so the SIMPLE ANSWER IS THROUGH THE DEATH OF JESUS, GOD HAS BECOME TOLERANT AND SO HE TOLERATES OUR SINS AND THAT IS WHAT THE NEW TESTAMENT CALLS (GRACE)….

      • Tamlew

        No need to argue. It will become apparent soon how tolerant of sin God is. You are completely wrong about the definition of grace however. Grace, in the New Testament, is the power and ability of God, given to us as a free gift because God Himself paid the penalty for our sins on the cross, and infused with and informed by His perfect love, FOR US TO RESIST TEMPTATION AND STOP SINNING. Grace is God’s power and ability that raises the dead. The first to be raised from the dead being Jesus. This is what is meant when Jesus is referred to in the Bible as the first-born (again.) You have to be born again to be rescued from sin and death. IN NO WAY DOES GOD TOLERATE SIN, BY HIS GRACE HE PAID THE PENALTY FOR SIN.
        You people have only enough understanding to lead you into total error.

      • didil ais

        and Julie before i forget, there is a difference between something existing in Gods presence and God seeing them, now we believe heaven is his place and from there he watches over us, SIN CANNOT EXIST IN HEAVEN BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE HE DWELLS, that is why in the days of old the church had the Holy of holies, that place alone God can dwell, and whenever there was sin, he refused to come down………. so the fact he sees sin from heaven does not mean sin can dwell in his presence and the only places he visits are the clean hearts. eg i can tolerate my kids playing soccer in the garden, but not in my bedroom , because that is where i live and dwell………i guess your questions are answered now

      • Bella

        So what you’re saying is that God’s acceptance of us is conditional.

        That’s a separate piece of doublethink to that which Julie Purple is pointing out, but both appear pretty dodgy if you actually apply logic to them.

      • Tamlew

        you guys are like fish in a fishbowl trying to disprove the existence of the one who feeds you…thinking you’re so brilliant

      • Bella

        Ahem. Clearly you haven’t been reading the thread. I’m a Christian. I’m not trying to disprove anything. What I *am* trying to do is a) point out the logical fallacies inherent in a conservative doctrine set, and b) let other readers know that arrogant and judgemental Christianity isn’t the only way to believe.

      • Tamlew

        The height of arrogance and judgmentalism is to assume you are superior to God…Jesus is God and He wrote ALL of the Bible…. not just the red letters. The Bible informs us as to Who God is…. You can ignore it and make up your own “jesus” but he won’t be the true Jesus, and it would be preferable if you called yourself something other than Christian to avoid being deceptive. If truth is not important to you and you WANT to live in your own creation, go ahead. But you will be committing the same Sin Adam and Eve did; eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Deciding what’s right and wrong apart from what God says is right and wrong. You have the freedom to do that but you won’t change who God is or any other aspect of reality.

      • Bella

        Whatever your beliefs about the inspiration of the bible, it always comes down to interpretation and correct understanding of the text. Bible passages have been interpreted different ways at different times, even by biblical scholars/Christians, depending on church bias and access to contemporary documents.

        It’s not so very long since the bible was used to justify slavery, righthandedness, misogyny, repression of coloured people, and myriads of other things. You should read the history of Christianity!

        Since the 1970s (and particularly the discoveries at Oxyrhynchus) we have had access to more papyri than ever before, and in many cases they have shown that earlier guesses at the meanings of biblical words/passages were wrong.

        Your interpretation is outdated, and a majority of textual scholars know it. That’s not arrogance; that’s accepting the Spirit’s enlightenment. Arrogance is refusing to change your mind when God lets you know you’re wrong :-)

      • Julie Purple

        Bella, permit me to interject a bit of a non sequitur here. I have been reading your responses to messages, and must let you know that it is a real pleasure to read rational, logical, informed responses for a change! You know how to discuss different points of view as an adult, politely, and you take the time to frame your postings in a clearly understood manner.
        I bow to your skill and good sense! How I wish others (myself included) had such skill!

      • Bella

        Thanks, Julie. I’m pleased you think that, because IMO those are all qualities that shine out of the accounts of Jesus too, and that’s part of what I aspire to be like – rational, informed, mature and courteous.

      • didil ais

        Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”…

      • JuliePurple

        Thank you for your response, but the quote does not address the issue.

      • didil ais

        its does, you said since GOD IS EVERYWHERE , SIN does not, the quotation shows you that even the DEVIL CAN SEE GOD

      • JuliePurple

        Please re-read what I wrote; I did not make any assertions about who or what is where or whether it exists. I stated premises and a conclusion. And your additional response *still* does not address the issue logically.

      • Dave

        Yes, God can see your sin, based in pride and a lack of knowledge. False testimony in God’s name is curiously close to being a false prophet, and what does the Bible say about that, hmmm?

  • impeachemall

    No, Jesus would simply repeat his only commandment: “Love one another.”

  • hangman

    Matthew 19:4–6

    Embed

    4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, u‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

    • Jeffrey Quave

      by defining what marriage is he makes clear exactly what it is NOT…

      • Deanna Jones

        You realize that marriage existed prior to Christianity, right?

      • Joel Simon

        Oh Yeah it did. Are we discussing history here though? We are discussing Christian Morality on the subject. So Yeah Christ was real clear on the moral stand GOD took on the subject.

      • Deanna Jones

        Except Jesus didn’t talk against homosexuality. Perhaps because he had a better understanding of the true meaning of God’s love than those screaming in protest right now.

    • American Polyglot

      This bible verse is clearly referring to DIVORCE, and how you shouldn’t get divorced from someone you marry, he wasn’t defining anything other than the nature of marriage in terms of commitment. Reading anything else into that is incredibly disrespectful to the actual message Jesus meant to share.

    • knowitall

      Hold on! You forgot the rest of the chapter!

      Matthew 19:11
      But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

      The word eunuchs is just another word for homosexual.

      • impeachemall

        What?? No, the word eunuch is NOT another word for homosexual. A eunuch is a man that has been castrated. That’s it, you uneducated moron.

      • Melissa

        How can you be born castrated? For there are Eunuchs who have been so from birth.

      • Carla

        The eunuchs of the Bible were castrated males or
        incapable of reproduction due to a birth defect.

      • knowitall

        Eunuchs may have been castrated from birth but that is not the rule idiot! Eunuchs existed in many ancient societies and served many different functions depending on which society they were born into. A “chancellor” to the king was also a term used for eunuchs but changed because of the high status he held in society and it didn’t necessarily mean he was castrated. Other words include officer, official or chamberlain

        Eunuch generally designates some incapacity for or abstention from procreation.

        Do us all a favor and go look up the etymology of the word eunuch idiot!

      • John

        It shows from your name that you are the idiot.

      • knowitall

        I said look up the etymology of eunuch not the definition of the word which you posted. You do know there is a difference, right? Unless of course, you are…. umm, an idiot.

      • John

        eu·nuch
        ˈyo͞onək/
        noun
        plural noun: eunuchs
        a man who has been castrated, especially (in the past) one employed to guard the women’s living areas at an oriental court.
        an ineffectual person.”a nation of political eunuchs”

  • PeeBee

    “… Jesus would have said…” Except that he didn’t did he?
    This is you putting words into Christ’s mouth.

    • Matt Ghazarian

      Yes pee that’s what the article is asking precisely what would Jesus say if he were here today and babear has hit it on the head imo. First off to even care what Christ said you must be Christian.. if your Christian you quit sinning by the Grace of God and belief in Christ. Your true love for Christ shall overcome your false love for sin. A heroine addict (and many say they are “born addicts”) and a homosexual who chooses Christ have the same burden and it is heavy but it must be carried in the name of Christ and Christ WILL lighten the load.

      • Edem

        Matt that’s it. Most people commenting here are not Christians to start with…so they want Christians to accept what is ùngodly to be right…so you see a gay institution suing a church for gay marriage refusal. It’s signs of the end times…just check around, observe for a while where the world is tilting towards…it’s destruction! People are beginning to accept a lie, wrong becomes right….watch out people!

powered by the Paulists