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Our readers asked:

Where in the Bible does it say that Mary, mother of Jesus, is sinless? And if it is not in the Bible, why does the Catholic Church act like she is?

Fr. Joe Answers:

Catholics differ from some Christian Churches which accept the Scripture as the only source of God’s revelation. Catholics have a strong belief in the truth of Scripture, but we also believe in tradition as a way in which God continues to reveal truth to us. Tradition can include beliefs, customs, prayers, and worship, the teaching of popes, bishops, theologians and Church councils. It’s our process of continually reflecting on the way in which the Word of God encounters our own experience as a community of faith.

Catholic understanding is that tradition includes the Scripture, and began before the gospels and letters were written. We do believe that Scripture is a unique revelation from God and that the truths of tradition must always be tested and evaluated against the truths revealed in Scripture. They should not contradict Scripture. They should find their roots in Scripture.

The belief that Mary lived without sin from the moment of her conception springs from Church tradition. It evolved over a period of time, and was not formally defined as a teaching of the Church until 1854. It is not found explicitly in Scripture, but seems for Catholics to flow naturally from the testimony of Scripture that Mary was “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) and “blessed” (Luke 1:42).

In Catholic understanding the belief in Mary’s “immaculate conception” does not say so much about Mary as it is about Christ’s saving power. We believe that God created the human person to be in God’s own image. Grace is more original than sin. Our natural state was to be “full of grace.” Sin is our universal experience but it’s not what God intended for us in the past nor wants for us in the future. We are saved from sin through Christ. Mary’s being conceived without sin takes place in the context of the entire saving act of Christ. In being “full of grace” she is a model of what we human beings were intended to be and who we are redeemed to be through God’s saving power. She is the first sign of God’s victory over sin in Christ.

You also ask: “Why are Catholics who are baptized when they were infants, choose to lead unholy, even atheistic lives, die and then the priest at the funeral says they are going to heaven because they were baptized?”

The bishop of Rome, as head of the Catholic Church, sometimes declares certain people to be “saints” because they lived such exemplary and holy lives that we can believe with confidence that they are “with God in heaven.” Such a declaration only comes after a long investigation into the facts of that person’s life. The Catholic Church has never declared any deceased person to be “in hell.” Aside from this we don’t know and can’t presume the eternal state of any person who has died, although we believe that God desires all people to be with him in death as well as in life. Baptism does not automatically ensure that a person will go to heaven when he or she dies. We must try to live out our Baptism with lives of faith, hope and love.

The Catholic Church asks its members to pray for those who have died BECAUSE we know that we are all sinners, and even when we have tried to live a good life we can die short of the purity of heart that makes eternal life “with God” a reality. Yet we believe that God’s mercy is not thwarted by death and that God has the power to purify and transform the soul even after death so that it is fully open to participating in eternal life. Purgatory is not a place of “sentences”, like a prison, because it exists in eternity which is timeless.

We should certainly pray for the living as well, that they may accept God’s grace into their lives.

 
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The Author : Fr. Joe
Fr. Joe Scott, CSP, has been a campus minister, pastor and editor as a Paulist priest.
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Please note that the editorial staff reserves the right to not post comments it deems to be inappropriate and/or malicious in nature, as well as edit comments for length, clarity and fairness.
  • TabithaRaised

    Jesus saved his mother from Original Sin at her conception because she does not know time. God sees time all at one time. He can save someone from Christ’s blood before their birth or after because Christ’s Redemption is for all time. As you remember Christ spoke Redemption to the captives held in the “bosom of Abraham”. It wasn’t just those born after the Redemption that have an opportunity for salvation. Christ can save someone before his Redemption, during, like he did with the good thief, or after, like with us. God needed a spotless vessel to born the son of God, so Mary was cleansed from Original Sin. Her family had suffered for many generations. Her lineage had to be cleansed through the centuries, too, before the son of God could come to the Jewish people. Both, suffering of the people of God (Isrealites) and Christ’s Redemption worked together to provide Mary as a spotless vessel to bear the son of Man.

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Mary was a VIRGIN pure and simple , she was not cleansed from original sin! Her title to being the the mother of Jesus, (ACCORDING to the Bible), was pure and simple She had to be , A VIRGIN!!!! Sticking with the Bible, IT, said Mary did not know , (have sex}, Joseph, until after Jesus was born.

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        Jesus Christ had no brothers. It is complete foolishness and heresy. Just the other day Some called me brother and was not my brother. During the time of Jesus Brother an Sister was commonly used in that context. Mary was a Holy Virgin being Holy Mother to Christ. Christ who honored Mary as His Mother as much as the Father the Commandment Honor thy Father and thy Mother. That’s why Jesus had to change the Water into Wine if not he would have sinned against His Father which is impossible so Christ always honor His Mother even in Heaven.
        Mary is there for Mother of God. Christ took on Mary’s flesh which was nor defiled by Original Sin. God specifically created

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        God specifically created Mary with out sin. This she is called The Immaculate Conception. For Mary had to be pure of Original Sin and designated her the 2nd Eve who does the will of God and participates in the Salvation of Mankind. Protestants only believe Salvation is through the Bible. That’s a big error because you also need the Church of tradition and with the Traditions of the Catholic Church and her Dogmas and Sacraments can one be saved it’s all in the Bible but the Protestants will not have any of it and the lose out the Holy Graces that is Overfloweth which Christ through His Scarifice and Death on then Holy Cross gives His Mother the Queen of Heaven and Earth to her children of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Praise Jesus and Mary!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        “”Participates in the salvation of mankind”". That is funny, Luke 1:46 states, “” And Mary said , My soul magnifies the Lord. Vs. 47 And my spirit rejoices in, GOD MY SAVIOUR”"” Mary called Jesus her Saviour because she knew she had to be Born Again. Because God Gave His Son Jesus as saviour of all mankind, But they had to get Born Again Just as Jesus is my Saviour. Jesus said in Jn 3:3 you must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God!! It is not good enough to have a “”head knowledge”"” of Jesus as Saviour. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, And after being born again and you sin, you go directly to Jesus to ask for forgiveness of sin ,, not some man in a Roman Catholic Church,

      • Aerauxel

        Oh you are back :)
        All I know that ALL PEOPLE HATE MARY were against to God as well :) Gen 3:15 ^^

      • JuliePurple

        Ah, come on. I’d think just the opposite. A political activist’s Mom? Whew, you have to have a lot of sympathy for her, regardless of any thoughts you may have about any of the spiritual stuff. Because it’s hard enough being a mother, much less the mom of a guy who pi$$es off so many people! Can you imagine? The neighbor lady saying, “So, what trouble is your son getting into lately?” What do you say to that? “Trouble! Oy!”

      • Aerauxel

        Well for him, hating Mary made him closer to GOD :P

      • JuliePurple

        Well, I think it might be more that hating Mary made him *think* he was closer to god. I mean, really, can you picture it? “Hey dude, I love you, but I hate your Mom”. Yeah, right. That’s just sad.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I don’t hate Mary but, I don’t worship her either!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Who hates Mary????? If you are using Gen 3:15 for your proof that all hate Mary ,,,,, Read it again and you will find that MANY people will hate Jesus!!!! Remember the Bible is about God’ salvation through JESUS,, NOT, NOT, NOT JESUS and Mary!!
        To believe that Mary helps in God’s Salvation, is sending a whole church to Hell

      • Aerauxel

        Who hated Mary? YOU :)
        from the very beginning you are making Mary a SINFUL woman

        How did you say that ALL HATE MARY on Gen 3:15
        God is talking to the serpent: “I will put enmity between you[Serpent] and the woman,
        and between your offspring and hers;”

        Is the WOMAN their Eve? Why God didn’t say EVE, because it wasn’t eve. Why? What happened to Eve’s offspring, was they against the serpent or some are with the serpent by falling from SIN?

        If you hate Mary, then you are with the Serpent. Well where is your ALL HATE MARY because only Protestant hated Mary so much :D

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I don’t HATE Mary!!! I did not call her a SINFUL woman!! I said she had the, “”Sinful Nature”" just like every body else in the world , outside of Jesus. No, Protestants don’t hate Mary, we see what you and your cult have done, in lifting up Mary to a position she does not hold.
        God the Father, God the Son, Jesus, and God the Holy Ghost are the ONLY ones we are to Bow down to and worship.
        YES, Jesus had brothers and sisters, since Joseph had sex with Mary after Jesus was born, Matt> 1:25

      • Aerauxel

        YES, Jesus had brothers and sisters, since Joseph had sex with Mary after Jesus was born, Matt> 1:25

        – that’s what happened if you took the bible LITERALLY…
        You are out of context when you are thinking (just poisoned by the serpent hehhe) that verse was about sex.

        Matthew
        is addressing a Jewish audience. In this passage he is affirming the
        reality of the Incarnation. In other words, the evangelist is saying
        that Joseph and Mary had no relations before the birth of Jesus, and so
        Joseph isn’t his natural father. His concern is strictly with the period
        of time before our Lord’s birth after Joseph had taken Mary into his
        home (v.24). Not unlike Matthew, the early Church Fathers defended the
        Christian belief in the Incarnation in their apologetic works.

        We can BOW to anyone, but we can worship only GOD. You are repeating the argument because you can’t accept the fact that bowing and worshiping was two different thing. You Protestant can’t distinguish who think happened in WORSHIPING. You don’t even know the origin of the word WORSHIP. That is why Catholic change worship for Mary called adore because the face that we bow to Mary was to adore, not to worship the same level offer to GOD…

        Go to google, type in “word origin worship” without double quote and you’ll find it’s history.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I have never heard your,, PS, Must of been a Sacred tradition of the Catholic church, to keep it’s members hooked!!
        I have never in my WHOLE life bowed to anyone, Once I was, “”born again”", I have , “” bowed “”, The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

      • PWB

        “YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN” .. HALLELUJAH!! lol

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Apparently you are not, Every Catholic that I have spoken to, and they said they had gotten born again, and every Catholic I personally have led to the Lord , (the born again experience ) have left the Catholic church.
        through the Born Again experience , God gives a NEW Spiritual nature, and their eyes are opened to the truth.
        The truth is , If you think you have to belong to an organization , like the Roman Catholic Church, Church of Christ, The Mormon church, and Jehovah Witness church, and follow their rules to get to Heaven.. That is so wrong!!!
        The true church are those who confess THEIR sins directly to Jesus, (not some man, or in the HUGE error, of asking Mary to pray for us sinners now) Because she HAS NOTHING to do with sinners. ONLY, ONLY Pray directly to Jesus! Also the prayer has to come from your heart, your inward man, for God to hear it. You will Know you are born again when your whole life changes, scripture says from darkness to life.
        You are as Ps 102:18 says created a new person , only God can do this

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        Jesus was Man! You just countered everything in the New Testament! Jesus Christ is True God and True Man! The Apostles are Man. St. Paul is Man evangelizing and participated in Holy Mass of the Catholic Church. As well as the Apostles who took care of the Bessed Virgin Mary who is Our Mother and the Mother of the Holy Church! Thank you Dwayne for your foolishness! Nice try!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        1. Jesus was a man, Where did I say that??????
        2. Mary, THE MOTHER OF THE HOLY CHURCH!!!!! using the Bible for your proof of THAT statement, BOOK, Chapter and verse ‘ s PLEASE,PLEASE, and NO, NO, no man’s traditional explanation, you know , the men of this Catholic counsel, or the men of that Catholic counsel , have come up with the teaching that MARY IS THE MOTHER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH !!! I will tell you the truth of what the Bible says, WHEN anyone , including Catholic Counsels introduce a teaching to the Church, they, the people in the Church searched the scriptures daily to see if they were being taught the truth!

        You my friend have not been taught the truth.
        3. Thank you Dwayne for your foolishness!
        There is foolishness and pure stupidity on the part of your church the, RCC, for not following the “”teachings”" of Peter and the other Apostles!!! But, are like the Pharisees, who trusted in man’s traditions, (the Catholic counsels in this case). Oh, you Pharisees, Saducees, Wouldn’t sees, and couldn’t sees, Jesus called them hypocrites , Jesus would call the RCC the same!! Peter and Paul would turn over in their graves, if they could see what the RRC church has turned into!! But, don’t feel bad, as the Bible says 2. Thes. 2:3, MANY would fall away from God’s true Church!! Those who are Born Again and have their name written in the Lamb’s book of life, are the true Church.
        Sixtus, or whoever you are, I will repeat again, John 3:3 Jesus told a religious man that he had to be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God!! Oh yes, water baptism is not being Born Again

      • SisterGayle Rusbasan

        you are not making any sense

      • JuliePurple

        Succinctly and accurately stated, SisterGayle.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        in what way am I not making sense

      • Pastor Dwayne

        But on earth Jesus moved and operated purely as a man

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Immaculate Conception, Immaculate only because a virgin conceived without having sex, and she did not have sex until after Jesus was born , according to what the Bible says. Yes, Jesus had brothers and sisters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

      • PWB

        The Immaculate Conception is not the same thing as the virgin birth. Certainly if you’re a pastor you should know this…

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I do know this ,,,and you don’t have to be a Pastor to know this! Where in the world did you come up with me saying anything about the virgin birth, I repeat ,, The Immaculate Conception, was only Immaculate, because God the Holy Ghost , overshadowed Mary, a virgin , and super naturally planted the seed of God in her.
        Also, after reading the Bible, (no matter what version),
        you don’t have to be a Pastor to know you are not to have statues in your church, also, NO man is to even make a statue, ACCORDING to what the Bible says! Also, NO man is to trust any other dead man, ( you call them saint so and so), for your protection, Also NO man, woman, nor young person is to confess their sins to any one other than Jesus Christ.
        NO man is to trust what Catholic men through the ages that has written, at this counsel or that counsel, without first doing what the Bible says , they went home and searched the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was true!!!
        YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS,,,, what is your excuse???????????

      • PWB

        “The Immaculate Conception, was only Immaculate, because God the Holy Ghost , overshadowed Mary, a virgin , and super naturally planted the seed of God in her.”

        You’re referring to the Immaculate Conception and the conception of Christ as the same thing. They’re not at all. The Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Book,chapter and verse to prove your point, NO phoney balony which man wrote!!!!!!!!

      • JuliePurple

        Wait a minute, I thought you *liked* the bible?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Man under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost wrote the Scriptures!!!! Traditions wrote by men that DO NOT line up with what the Bible says, are written under the inspiration of a god, Jesus called him Satan.

      • JuliePurple

        I bet it really bums you out that there is no actual objective proof for that. That has to be awkward for you.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You see, that is one thing you will never understand, that is, til you get born again!!!! When you are born again, you are a brand new creation of God, all of the old has passed away you are a new person . And you know that you know the Bible is true. For instance , before my conversion, (born again experience), if a person wanted to be homosexual, it was alright with me!! However, after getting born again. I knew it was one of the filthiest sins there was. without reading one word of the Bible! Then in reading the Bible , there it was , Homosexuality was a horrible sin.
        Yes the Bible was written by Holy men under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost!! When you look at history and it’s timing of when it happened, you see it in the Bible written 100′s of years and sometimes 1-2 thousand years before that historical event happened!!!!
        SO, no pun intended, but , if you don’t get Born Again, your final experience for eternity , YOU MAY BE RALLY BURNED OUT, and that may be AWKWARD for you!
        I did not say bits of the not lining up with each other,,,,, I said the Holy Sacred Traditions of the history of Catholic big shot men not lining up with God’s Word , the Bible! BYE

      • JuliePurple

        As it happens, I was born okay the first tiime. :-)
        Let me give you a bit of advice. If you want to convince someone who doesn’t agree with you, you need to use sources of information that the other person respects. Because otherwise, all you do is repeat yourself, and that gets boring really fast. Repeating yourself and using a lot of capital letters only proves that you are really into what you’re saying. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not a good argument. And so I say again, there is not a single source of information that I respect that says that the bible is a reliable source of information. It is just not possible for you to give me any actual proof that what you claim is true. And by proof, I mean something that is objectively verifiable.
        However, you’ve found something that you love and is important to you, and that’s great. But you’re using it as an excuse to put people down, and that’s just wrong.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        As I said before if you are not born again, you won’t understand a spiritual book, the Bible!

      • JuliePurple

        You have no objectively verifiable information, then. I didn’t think so. Nice pitch to avoid logic, though, dude!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Scientists couldn’t find, “”logic”", in bang, the universe was created, “”out of nothing”". There is not a lot of logic in God, that is, until you are born again

      • JuliePurple

        I see that you are not well educated in science, either. Don’t feel bad; a lot of religious people aren’t. Likely your congregation won’t know the difference.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        So you are saying in fact, that the scientist found logic in , bang, the universe was created out of nothing?????

      • João T

        Yes, they have, please read “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking, it is a fact that the universe is about 15 billion years old

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Please reread my above post , I never said anything about the age of the universe, God made the universe out of NOTHING, but scientist believe there had to be some kind of matter the universe was made from when it went bang

      • João T

        Pastor Dwayne, if the Bible really is the Word of God, how come there be parts of it which scholars are certain were added later, eg. The last chapter and the beggining (The Word which was God) of John, the first two chapters of Luke, Mark’s ending (16:9-20), Jesus sweating blood in Luke, the story of the Woman taken in adultery in John’s Gospel, and how come there be contradictions within the Gospels, eg. what were Jesus’ last words on the cross? depends on which Gospel you read, when was Jesus crucified? depends on which Gospel you read, how long did it take for Jesus to die? depends on which Gospel you read, who went to the tomb on the third day? Mary Magdalene or did other women comewith her? depends on which Gospel you read, was the tomb already open or did someone open it for her? dependson whixh Gospel you read, who appeared to Mary after she found out the tomb was empty? depends on which Gospel you read, to whoom did Jesus appear after He rose? depends on which Gospel you read, did the disciples go to Galilee or did they stay in Jerusalem? depends on which Gospel you read, etc. How do you explain this? Now keep in mind that I’m not attacking your views, I’m just asking you how you explain these things. I, being a Christian, and a Catholic, more specifically, believe that even though some of the things written in the Bible may not have actually happened, God still inspire the authors to write them, because they are freat moral lessons and great teachings, even though it was not what actually happened. God bless

      • Pastor Dwayne

        First,,,, you claim to be a Christian! A question for you. When did you get Born Again, how old were you when you got Born Again, ,, What was your like before getting Born Again, and afterwards?????

      • João T

        I became born again when I was 12 and my life as changed remarkably. Before I was born again, my life was a typical child’s life, but when I became born again I started becoming a man, and since then have been in the path of righteousness, and YES I am a true born again Christian, and NO I will never leave the Catholic church, you are a Christian by following Christ and through righteousness, it does not depend upon the church you go to within Christianity. YES I am saved, as is anyone who is righteous, including people from other religions, but please answer my previous question other than with another question

      • JuliePurple

        Joao T, something I’ve noticed is that whenever Pastor Dwayne is asked a question that he cannot answer rationally and still maintain his views, he responds with “you have to be born again”. I guess it’s his way of saying, “You’re right” or “I was mistaken”.

      • João T

        Yes, I’m still awaiting his answer, but I think he will answer it well enough that I can understand his views. By the way I’d like to know what are your views on religion and Christianity. As you may have already realised, I’m kinda a liberal Christian, I believe in the salvation of people from other religions, I know that the universe is 15 billion years old, and I know we have come to be through evolution, etc, which are the mainstream views in my country (Portugal). But what views do you hold about religion? God bless :D

      • JuliePurple

        Joao, thanks for sharing your views. I wish I could be sure that the majority of people in my country (USA) held rational views. I worry for kids here today, with public schools being allowed (in some places) to teach creationism in *science* classes! Can you imagine? I’m glad I’m old enough that any doctors I’m likely to encounter will have been given their medical education based on science rather than mythology.
        My views about religion are still evolving as I learn more. I was raised in a religious system, but when I got older found that what I had been taught was severely biased, to say the least. So for over 40 years, I’ve been working on discovering what I’m able about the whole thing. (I do other stuff to: got a college degree, got married, and all that — by the way, my husband and I just recently celebrated our 29th wedding anniversary! :-)
        My views… require solid evidence from rational, unbiased sources. I guess you could classify my views very broadly as agnostic, because I simply don’t know. All of the people I’ve encountered so far who claim to know are using data that has been proven to be unreliable. So my search continues. It is entirely possible that understanding the mind, methods, or intentions of what is capable of creating a universe containing billions of galaxies… might just be a bit beyond what a human mind is able to comprehend, at least in this stage of our evolution. :-)

      • João T

        Thanks for replying so quickly :D Yes unfortunately you are right when you say that a lot of believers do rely on unreliable data, I’ve observed that myself, more than I would want to, and that’s why I began to study not only the Bible, but the manuscripts, the early christian traditions, the Theology of the first Christians (which are the genuine authentic Jesus’ teachings). If you take, for instance, the Gospel of Mark (c.70 AD) or the Letters of Paul (50-60 AD) and you compare them to the Gospel of John (c.90-100 AD) you will notice that the Theology within those books is remarkably different. For instance, the Gospel of John is already picturing Jesus as God, because the concept that Jesus was purely God had already developed completely in those times, while in the year 60 or 70 it was still developing. These are the kind of things that made me analyse very carefully the New Testament, so I could get closer to what were really Jesus’ teachings. One of the reasons I am a believer is because of Paul. Paul is amazing, he writes about 20 years after Jesus’ death (and Resurrection), and he actually knew Peter, John and James, the Lord’s brother, as he tells us in Galatians, so he actually knew what he was talking about when he spoke about Jesus, which was always (by the way, 14 epistles are attributed to Paul, but scholars think that he only wrote 7 of them. The ones that he didn’t write are 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Ephesians and Hebrews. Scholars still aren’t sure whether or not he wrote Colossians and 2 Thessalonians). Paul died for what he believed in, as so did Peter, as attested by Ignatius of Antioch in c.110 AD and by Clement of Rome c.90-100 AD. That’s one of the reasons why I believe in Christ’s Resurrection, because Paul knew Jesus’ apostles and family and recieved the knews first hand, and died for his beliefs, as did Peter and James, so I believe that if the Ressurrection hadn’t happened, they wouldn’t preach it and they wouldn’t have died for what they believed in. Please, think about the point I’ve been trying to make throughout this message.
        I don’t know if this message was too confusing, because I tried to say many things all at once, but please, if you have any questions or didn’t understand something ask my, I will happily answer you :) Congratulations on your 29th anniversary by the way! :D
        God bless you much

      • JuliePurple

        This is just a quick reply, because I have to see to some things here pretty soon…
        Joao, I *have* researched and thought about the things you’ve mentioned. So much of even the earliest literature is suspect, as far as accuracy goes. And of course, from the very little that is available, people have added their own interpretations to that. Simply put, I do not trust the data. And logically, so much of it doesn’t make sense.
        And just because someone died for a belief does not make the belief true. It only means that they thought it was.
        Must go for now. Thank you for your kindness!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        As I was explaining how to get born again to a man , he told me that he understood some of the Bible, but not much, After he was Born Again he went to his home and about hour later he called me and said , when he got home he got his Bible and began reading . He said this sounds crazy but since I got Born Again I can understand the Bible when I read it!!
        So when I tell people they need to get Born Again, it is not saying , “your right” or “I was mistaken”, The fact is if people want to know God and hIS Word, they have to be, Born Again.
        I realize you are an intelligent person , but God’s Word states , “”the people of the world are always learning but not coming to the knowledge of the truth. SOOOO just start asking God to reveal himself to you!!!

      • JuliePurple

        Dwayne, I never said I had any trouble *understanding* the bible. It’s pretty simple. It is also filled with hatred, mistaken assumptions, and self-importance. It is self-contradictory. It is absurd. And it is not factual.
        Since you persist in repeating the same tired old “born again” rubbish, I suggest that you resume taking your medications, because your delusions are clearly overpowering your sense of reality. You can say “This is a fact” a thousand times, but that does ot make it true.
        God reveals himself/herself to anyone who has open eyes. It’s called “Nature”. God’s laws are things like gravity, conservation of energy, melting point of water, and so forth. Nature. It’s everywhere. Obvious. Beautiful. Provable. Elegant. True.
        The bible is simply ancient tribal legends, superstitions, and tribal taboos, well mixed with stories of atrocities against whomever they decided they didn’t like.
        I will tell you once again, since I really prefer rational thought in my conversations, and that does not seem to be forthcoming in your messages, I wish you well and bid you farewell.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        you apparently do not understand “”any of the Bible”" What you call God,in other words “nature”, is what God has created.
        Please give me one example of Hatred in the Bible????!!!!!!!

      • JuliePurple

        You need to be fined for excessive use of exclamation points, question marks, and incorrect use of quotation marks. And, of course, you should take your medications. By the way, if you don’t remember where to find examples of hatred in the bible, you could always Google the question.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        As I thought no example of anger in the Bible

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, you don’t even know how to use Google! Poor man. Well, as Thomas Paine said, “To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” And dude, please, take your medications. Your delusions are not good for you. And they’re a nuisance for everybody else.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        At least i’m not drunk like you! At least I know where I will be when I die

      • JuliePurple

        Well done! I finally get it! You really had me going for a while there!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Which presents the big question, where is JulieP going when she dies? When you think it over don’t go to your mythology of rational thought!
        Remember, the Bible says God’s thoughts are not our thoughts , and His ways are not our ways

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, no, never use rational thinking! Making sense? Nah, that’s bad for you. Fairy tales are where it’s at! Make believe! And for the love of all you hold dear, never, never take seriously anything that has actual proof! Because if it can be proven, it’s obviously false!!!!!!!!!!! (I’m competing for the most use of exclamation points, PD!) Oh, yes, and go get born again! Yee-ha! Go down that heavenly birth canal, get slapped by the celestial obstetrician, and yell out your first newborn angel baby cries! Yee-ha!

      • JuliePurple

        Okay, so here’s how you use Google. You know the Internet Explorer program, right? If you can find the area that has a blank space where you can type stuff in, just go there, and type in your search criteria. For example, “hatred in the bible” or “anger in the bible”, or whatever you want. You’ll get a range of websited with varying degrees of credibility, but if you check out several and do a little cross reference work, you should find something. One really useful screening tool for determining how reliable a site is, is noticing how good the spelling and grammar are. If there are a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes, it’s pretty much a given that the data is unreliable.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Well I GUESS I was true , which I am occasionally You havn’t even read the Bible all you have done is Google it. I GUESS that is how intelligent people get smarter, ever learning but not coming to the knowledge of the truth

      • George

        You start by questioning if the Bible is the word of God, and end your statement saying that you believe the authors of the Bible where inspired by God in what they wrote. It seems you answered your own question.

      • João T

        I did answer my own question, but I was asking Pastor Dwayne’s opinios about it

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Read my reply below to julie purple!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Joao, My answer,,,, When you find out who Matthew was writing to , who Mark was written to , likewise the Book of Luke, and John, you would understand why there are differences in the 4 Gospels!
        Joao , if you are truly born again, you would not be saying, “” IF”" the bible is the Word of God. Which is your basis for going to true falseness, Sacred Traditions
        If someone added to the scriptures , God may be using men to complete his work, as also why would God use men to take away whole books out of the Bible. Your 7 books in your bible were taken out, for several reasons 1. they were not written in Hebrew. 2.In a lot of verses they were contrary with the rest of the Bible.
        3. Jesus or the Apostles never quoted any of your 7 books.
        3 Solid reasons for taking them out , no not the reason catholics use. such as , they didn’t fall into Luther’s beliefs , and on and on!
        Joao, you need to get born again. The Bible says faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God , and how can they hear unless a preacher is preaching the word of faith, Joao you won’t hear that in a catholic church! Don’t get me wrong there are a few catholic churches that actually preach the Word of God and most in their church are born again , along with getting baptised in/with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues! Do it Joao i’m all for you . AMEN

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Mary had two parents , and was conceived in sin, just like everyone else in the world outside of Jesus!!!
        And Jesus had brothers and sisters according to Matt. 1:25

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Outside of man’s tradition where in the Bible does talk about Mary’s conception??? I will give you a clue, The Bible does not say a word about it!!!!!!!!!!

      • PWB

        As you should know, unlike fundamentalism and most of Protestantism, the Roman Catholic (as well as the Eastern Orthodox) Church believe in both Sacred Scripture (the Bible) and Sacred Tradition.

        The idea that Scripture alone is the only source of sacred knowledge is a relatively recent doctrine (16th century), invented by Martin Luther. Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only authority? (That would be hard to prove, since the Bible wasn’t assembled and canonized until 300 years after the New Testament scriptures were written by the Apostles. Therefore, no Apostle could possibly know which scripture would be in the Bible.)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Scripture alone, is the foundation of all truth, not “”"”"”sacred”"”"tradition, which as you see concerning Mary, has lied to you again , and again!!! There is NO such thing as the Immaculate conception for Mary! Tradition is is always based on scripture, but then twisted a little to fit religious men’s needs , usually to CONTROL the People! Jesus brought the truth , the Pharisees which were tradition based were in fear of losing all of their people!!! Read Acts 17:11, The people loved what they were hearing preached to them , BUT , they searched the scriptures daily to see if what they heard was true!! NO where does it say they searched their sacred traditions for truth!

      • PWB

        So what about the Christians that existed between 100 AD and 400 AD, when there was no official Bible that existed (nor were any scriptures disseminated to all Christians)? How did they know what to follow?

        Also, you haven’t answered.. Where in the Bible does it say that Scripture is the sole source of authority?

      • George

        They had oral tradition and some scriptures. Jesus himself read scripture to show He fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. So it seems Jesus was fond of showing He met the test against scripture. Saint Paul also praised the Bereans for it.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Read and study the Bible from one end to the other 20 times as I have “”"after”" being Born Again !! Then when you hear falseness , like Mormon and Jehovah Witness teachings, and your False traditions, “”the witness of the Holy Ghost”" you know it is false, and a person also knows

      • Pastor Dwayne

        ”’ No Apostle could possibly know,”"” You have one problem, GOD KNEW

      • João T

        plus, John knew too “John, behold your mother, woman, behold your son”

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The topic was , “” The Bible is the only Authority”", Not lying, “”Sacred, < WOW, TRADITION"" !!! Once you get Born Again, THEN and only then will you know that the Bible is the ONLY source of God's authority, not man made, """"Sacred""", tradition!!
        As you said above, """plus""" Jesus knew His beloved disciple , John feared the Word of God and would take care spiritually Mary's needs , Since his brothers and sisters were not believers in Jesus at the time, Therefore he said, Woman behold your son!!!

      • JACK MITCHELL

        TRUST IN THE LOIRD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND LEAN NOT ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. IN ALL YOUR WAY ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE’LL WILL DIRECT YOUR PATH.I

      • JuliePurple

        Well said, PWB.

      • George

        The only authority is the Holy Trinity. And what we know of God is by His revelation only, not by man’s philosophy. Jesus had miracles, and so did the apostles after they received the Holy Ghost and we believe their words. Jesus also focused on how He fulfilled OT prophecy. So there is an implied expectation that the scripture is used to verify that a person is who they say they are, and from God and God gives them miracles and makes their prophecies true. Otherwise, tradition can be corrupted by alien pagan ideas.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Once again Sacred Tradition WILL not go the opposite of what the Bible says!! If Sacred Tradition does go opposite of the Bible says , it is now called Sacred Fables!!
        PWB, I’m not trying to be smart with you , but fact is fact

      • Alessandra Vincitori

        Outside the protestant tradition answer this. Why a single man named Martin Luther, breaks the church, then writtes a book saying he regretted it.

        Second from that single break, over 4,000 have come about. Apperently not even protestants know what is right.

        The catholic church and doctrine has really never broken. Given that Othrodox and Coptic Christian split because of Geographical political reasons. Yet we believe the same fundamental things.

        So I was kind enough to answer your questions. Explain then to whom Christ referred to when he said ( Matthew 16:18), “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

        To what church was Peter pope to? (note how he said church not churches). And who is to be authority, if even the bible says man is not, unless directed by God.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I will answer, with Scripture, your question of to whom Christ referred to in? , MT. 16:18, and , To what church was Peter pope to? First, I read a lot of links on the subject, Both sides of the issue had good thoughts and bad thoughts. But none of them mentioned the scripture I am giving as my answer!
        ,,,,,Please read Galatians 2:7-9 and answer the question of, WHO WAS PETER DEDICATED TO SERVE, By the way, circumcision was the Jews, uncircumcision , the Gentiles.
        Please answer.
        In scripture we find where Apostle Paul went to Rome , but it sure wasn’t to be a pope, Scripture never records that Apostle Peter went to Rome, because he was busy serving the Jews in Israel, since Gal. 2:7-9 indicate Peter was an Apostle to the Jews!!
        Most if not all the prot. reformation churches are going to the wayside, There are very few Churches that actually serve the Lord, in the totality of Scripture.
        The eastern church was established way before the Roman catholic church , and was larger than the RCC til the years 1400-1600 AD .
        All you are , is , the church of Rome ! what I am saying is there is , and was a church every where, besides the RCC.
        In conclusion , it was the ROCK of the Apostles (plural), that Jesus built His Church,,,,, When you get Born Again you belong to Jesus’ Church!!!!!!!!!

      • George

        The reformation happened because the Catholic/Roman Pope was charging people money to forgive sins for the dead in purgatory. Martin Luther protested this, and the pride of the Pope made bad things get worse. A similar thing happened when the schism with the Greek orthodox occurred. The Catholic Pope sent some proud Cardinals to negotiate, and they made something bad go to worse.
        So the Catholic church has in essence caused the split of the Church of God with its pride and insistence on pushing the envelope with teachings that are made up by man. Other people, specifically Thomas Aquinas injected Pagan aristotelian philosophy into the RCC, and that has impacted us greatly. Aristoteles lived 300 years before Christ, and yet, our Lord never quoted his work to justify anything. But now the natural law of Aristoteles is quoted a lot in the Catechism to tighten the rope tighter than the Lord Himself did. Anyone that asks for answers in the RCC is shown the same pride. One thing is sure, our Lord promised HIs church will prevail over evil, and there are some that may be surprised when they are found to be the evil he was referring to.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The immaculate conception being the conception of Mary, AS you say, never happened!!! If something that important happened , it would have been written in the Bible, whatever version you have. So instead you trust in Fase traditions!!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        It is not in the Bible , so how pray tell would I know

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Being a pastor, I agree I should know, But since the immaculate conception is found no where in the Bible I did not know!!!!. SACRED TRADITIONS that don’t match up with the Bible, is the worst thing to put your faith in!

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        It’s complete foolishness and Truely Hertical that’s why you are outside the One Holy Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ. The Vigin Mary has never been touched by sin. Jesus never had brothers and sisters. Your teachings are Freemason teachings the teachings of lies from Pastor Dawayne who church was founded by Satan who Ordained himself a pastor preaching false doctrine. Satan attacks Christ and His Mother which good and Holy lodgic tells that Mary is the Mother of God. St. Elizabeth confirms at the meeting with Mary our Mother when St. Elizabeth says who am I to have the Mother of my Lord (God) to see me! But aparently the false teachings of Dawayne

      • Pastor Dwayne

        My teachings are not Freemason , my teachings are out of the Bible, THAT IS WHY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAY!
        Now , here is the Word of God, MATT. 1:24-25, “” 24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the Angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife. 25. And knew her not til she had brought forth her first born son, and he called his name Jesus”" NOW tell me what this part of vs 25 says, Verse 25 And knew her not TIL she had brought forth her first born son. Please answer this!!!

      • Alessandra Vincitori

        for this answer you must know greek or latin. And look at the first translation of the bible in latin Vulgate.”we must remember that the King James Bible of today is not the King James of 1611. It has undergone three revisions, incorporating more than 100,000 changes!”- by Greek Scholar and theologian Daniel Wallace

        in Latin Vulgate: “exsurgens autem Ioseph a somno fecit sicut praecepit ei angelus Domini et accepit coniugem suam”

        A more direct translation: the word you question is accepit. Meaning third person singular for accipio ( to accept or receive)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        What was the Latin Vulgate translated from???

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Jesus founded the Catholic church , not the Roman Catholic Church.
        Apostle Peter was not their first Pope , nor any of their Popes, Peter was the Apostle to the Jews

      • ray

        Origins of the Catholic Church – The CATHOLIC CHURCH origins is traced back from the early Church fathers; St. Justin Martyr, St. Ignatius of Antioch, Tertulian, St. Clement, mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3, St. Polycarp, St. Iraneaus, St. Ambrose, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Athanasius, St. Clement of Rome, St. Augustine and St. Jerome

        “’Catholic’ is the ancient name by which the Church of Christ has been known for nineteen centuries, this name was given to her not for reasons of controversy, to prove something, but because it identifies her uniquely. It was first used by St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch in Syria, who was martyred about A.D 110. The Church founded by Christ is here, for the first time, called ‘the Catholic Church’, a name clearly to denote the Church throughout the world in union with the see or diocese of Rome. It was stress the unity of the universal Church that St. Ignatius INVENTED THE NAME.”

        The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St Ignatius, written about the year 110. The words run: “Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church.”[15] Later, in the “Catechetical Discourses” of St. Cyril of Jerusalem we see the name “Catholic Church” to identify the church from various sects. St Cyril writes, “And if ever thou art sojourning in any city, inquire not simply where the Lord’s house is–for the sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens, houses of the Lord–nor merely where the church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of the holy body the mother of us all.”

      • ray

        Testimony of the Church Fathers on Peter as the 1st Pope. In the second century St. Hegessipus compiled a list of Popes to the time of Anicetus (eleventh Pope) which contained the name of St. Peter as first. Early
        in the third century the historian Caius wrote that Pope Victor was “the thirteenth Bishop of Rome from Peter.” In the middle of the third century St. Cyprian related that Cornelius (twenty-first Pope) “mounted the lofty summit of the priesthood . . . the place of Peter.” Even Protestant historians have attested to Peter’s role as first Bishop of Rome, first Pope of the Catholic Church. Wrote the eminent Protestant historian Cave in his Historia Literaria:
        “That Peter was at Rome, and held the See there for some time, we fearlessly affirm with the whole multitude of the ancients.” Hence the source of the Pope’s authority to rule over the Catholic Church is quite obvious: It was
        given him by none other than Jesus Christ–by God Himself.

        I. THE PRIMACY OF PETER IN SCRIPTURE

        Matt. to Rev. – Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

        Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16;
        Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 – these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.

        Matt. 14:28-29 – only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith
        to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.

        Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 – Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

        Matt. 16:17 – Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

        Matt. 16:18 – Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

        Matt. 16:19 – only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.

        Matt. 17:24-25 – the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He
        is the Vicar of Christ.

        Matt. 17:26-27 – Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ’s representative on earth.

        Matt. 18:21 – in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many
        examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus’ teachings.

        Matt. 19:27 – Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.

        Mark 10:28 – here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything
        to follow Him.

        Mark 11:21 – Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus’ curse on the fig tree.

        Mark 14:37 – at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to
        Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.

        Mark 16:7 – Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.

        Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the
        Church into all truth.

        Luke 5:4,10 – Jesus instructs
        Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows.
        Peter, the Pope, is the “fisher of men.”

        Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the
        disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.

        Luke 8:45 – when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.

        Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 – Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

        Luke 9:28;33 – Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.

        Luke 12:41 – Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter’s formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.

        Luke 22:31-32 – Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.

        Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 – John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived
        and entered the tomb first.

        Luke 24:34 – the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous
        hour. See Luke 24:33.

        John 6:68 – after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.

        John 13:6-9 – Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.

        John 13:36; 21:18 – Jesus predicts Peter’s death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred
        years of papal successors were also martyred.

        John 21:2-3,11 – Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the “barque of Peter”) is a metaphor for the Church.

        John 21:7 – only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.

        John 21:15 – in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus “more than these,” which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.

        John 21:15-17 – Jesus charges Peter to “feed my lambs,” “tend my sheep,” “feed my sheep.” Sheep means all people, even the apostles.

        Acts 1:13 – Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord’s ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.

        Acts 1:15 – Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and
        no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn’t it need one to Peter? Of course.

        Acts 2:14 – Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.

        Acts 2:38 – Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

        Acts 3:1,3,4 – Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray. Acts 3:6-7 – Peter works the first healing of the apostles.

        Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 – Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.

        Acts 5:3 – Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings
        about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.

        Acts 5:15 – Peter’s shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.

        Acts 8:14 – Peter is mentioned
        first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.

        Acts 8:20-23 – Peter casts
        judgment on Simon’s quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands.
        Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.

        Acts 9:32-34 – Peter is
        mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.

        Acts 9:38-40 – Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.

        Acts 10:5 – Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted
        this divine vision.

        Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 – Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).

        Acts 12:5 – this verse implies that the “whole Church” offered “earnest prayers” for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.

        Acts 12:6-11 – Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.

        Acts 15:7-12 – Peter resolves
        the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church’s first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.

        Acts 15:12 – only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter’s
        definitive teaching.

        Acts 15:13-14 – then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter’s definitive teaching. “Simeon (Peter)
        has related how God first visited…”

        Rom. 15:20 – Paul says he doesn’t want to build on “another man’s foundation” referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.

        1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.

        1 Cor. 15:4-8 – Paul distinguishes Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the
        other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”

        Gal.1:18 – Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ’s
        Revelation to Paul.

        1 Peter 5:1 – Peter acts as the chief bishop by “exhorting” all the other bishops and elders of the Church.

        1 Peter 5:13 – Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First,
        this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from “Babylon” which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that “Babylon” meant Rome. Rome was the “great city” of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.

        2 Peter 1:14 – Peter writes about Jesus’ prediction of Peter’s death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that
        he would suffer.

        2 Peter 3:16 – Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul’s letters. Peter is the chief
        shepherd of the flock.

        Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 – yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all
        servants.

      • Alessandra Vincitori

        In Judea there was no word for cousin. Look at it in a historical context.

        That would have made John the baptist his brother.But he was the son of Elizabeth

      • Pastor Dwayne

        No, it would make John the Baptist Jesus’ , a kinsman!!

      • Alessandra Vincitori

        Ok good at least you see that.. You now see that a kinsman is a word that people later interpreted as brother.

        Regardless , I found it intreasting how
        You did not comment on my question
        About the origin of your church , the multiple bible corrections, and Martin Luther’s regret..

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Kinsman is a different word than the word used for brother

      • SisterGayle Rusbasan

        No, Mary IS the Immaculate Conception, she herself was conceived without original sin. Read John Duns Scotus’ thoughts on it

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I read scotus,,,,, First and foremost, when establishing a teaching, or a doctrine!!! It must be found int the new Testament, and that teaching or doctrine must be proven by old Testament truth, Scotus did not use ,”"ONE “”, verse from the Bible, to prove his point that Mary was conceived sinless! but he had a reason for not quoting a verse or verses that Mary was immacuatly conceived ,,,,,, Because there is NONE, so if it is not based on Scripture , it is False!!! All of “”ROMAN”" Catholic sacred traditions that are not based on Bible Scripture are false!!!!!!

      • SisterGayle Rusbasan

        In arguing Mary is not the Immaculate Conception, you are limiting the power of God, and if you are going down that path, you’ll go alone. If you really are a pastor, your congregation deserves someone better than a person who goes online harrassing fellow Christians. Obviously, this is a Catholic page, so take your sputtering elsewhere.

      • JuliePurple

        With respect, SisterGayle, it’s for spiritual seekers in general, not only Catholic. But yeah, Pastor Dwayne *is* a bit much. :-)

      • SisterGayle Rusbasan

        True, yes, spiritual seekers as you said, not those whose sole purpose is to be argumentative, :-)

      • George

        I wish more of our catholic clergy was able to articulate how doctrines have been concluded. God is almighty, yes. That doesn’t mean we can claim God has done whatever it is that we wish He had done so we can defend our doctrines. Saint Paul praised the Bereans for checking his claims against the Bible, and they believed more because of it. I’m a catholic that is worn out by clergy that sees themselves above the rest, but is unwilling and/or unable to defend the doctrines of the church and many times expecting to be worshipped as if they have some infallibility. Not even St. Peter was infallible, Jesus kept correcting him. Jesus “harassed” the wicked like the pharisees and the money changers at the Temple. So confronting a fellow christian who we believe is in error is what we should do.

      • ray

        “so if it is not based on Scripture, it is False!!!” What about sola scriptura, sola fide, rapture, predeistination? Are they in the Scripture? What about the Catholic Doctrine of The Holy Trinity? Is that in the bible? Why do majority of protestants believe on this? And the term “Born Again” is a baptist (fundamentalist) tradition. JOHN 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. This is called baptism.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The holy trinity was not a RCC doctrine it is in the bible “Born again” is not a Baptist tradition,,,, Jesus himself said to see the kingdom of God , U must be BORN AGAIN!
        Rapture = caught up, its in the bible, predestination= we are predestined to be like Christ, it is in the bible, Sola scripture = They checked the scripture daily , to see if the Word being taught was true! Note they did not check sacred traditions to see if what they were being taught was true!
        Protestants believe this because it is in the Bible!

      • ray

        Sorry, “Rapture” is nowhere found in the bible,
        Jesus comes to earth twice, not three times. The so-called “Rapture” claims Jesus will secretly come to snatch away believers between his first and second
        coming, virtually make a third coming. We believe he will return at the end of time and all will be raised: those who have died and those who remain alive. WE will all be caught up together with Our Lord.

        What you stated above, referring to the invented Protestant “rapture” is not taught in Scripture, was never taught in all of church history until the mid-1800′s when 2 women had an ecstatic vision. This took place in Great Britain and was popularized in America through the Schofield Reference Bible or z’i'o’n*i’s't* bible.

        What you say above is a lot of speculation, unfounded
        assumptions, and frankly, a twisting of Scripture. Bottom line it is man made newly invented Protestant tradition, this has been the salespitch of evangelicals to sell wars on the MEast.

        Predestination is unbiblical, the heresy of eternal security is basically a 19th century British/American mutation that has NEVER been held or even dreamed of by earlier Christians. Sorry to disagree, but eternal
        security is nonsense, dangerous, and unbiblical.

        We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone (which is what “Bible Christians” teach; see James. 2:24). When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace.

        But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Galatians 6:2).

        Even though only God’s grace enables us to love others, these acts of love please him, and he promises to reward them with eternal life (Romans 2:6–7, Galatians 6:6–10).

        Thus good works are meritorious. When we first come to God in faith, we have nothing in our hands to offer him.

        Then he gives us grace to obey his commandments in love, and he rewards us with salvation when we offer these acts of love back to him (Romans 2:6–11, Galatians 6:6–10, Matthew 25:34–40).

        15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.

        16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father. (Matthew 5: 15-16)

        Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also
        must obey his commandments. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?” (Luke 6:46, Matthew 7:21–23, 19:16–21).

        We do not “earn” our salvation through good works (Ephesians 2:8–9, Romans 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Romans 2:7, Galatians 6:8–9).

        Paul said, “God is the one who, for his good purpose,
        works in you both to desire and to work” (Philippians 2:13).

        John explained that “the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, ‘I know him,’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3–4, 3:19–24, 5:3–4).

        Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation.

        We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Romans 11:22–23, 1 Corinthians 15:1–2; CCC 1854–1863). Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

        Read his letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven (see, for example, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, Galatians 5:19–21).

        Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God “will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness” (Romans 2:6–8).

        Sins are nothing but evil works (CCC 1849–1850). We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works.

        Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.

        Sola scriptura is not checking on the scripture daily, it
        means scripture alone as sole authority, nowhere you can find this in the bible.

        1st Sola Scriptura is not wrong because it causes division, even Christ causes division (Luke 12:51) and He is all Truth (John 14:6). 2nd, Sola Scriptura is wrong
        because it contradicts Scripture (Matt 18:17; 1 Thess 2:13; 2 Thess 2:15; Heb 13:7; 17). 3rd, Sola Scriptura is also wrong because it is illogical. It contradicts itself because it claims that all valid doctrines must be explicit in Scripture. Yet, Sola Scriptura is not only
        absent from Scripture, but contradicts Scripture.

        John 3:5 ? Refers to “water baptism” ALL EARLY CHRISTIANS INTERPRETED THIS TO MEAN WATER BAPTISM. UNTIL THE LAST FEW CENTURIES. Evangelicals claim that one is born again at the first moment of faith in Christ. According to this theory,
        faith in Christ produces regeneration. The Calvinist position is the reverse: Regeneration precedes and produces faith in Christ. Calvinists (some of whom
        also call themselves Evangelicals) suppose that God “secretly” regenerates people, without their being aware of it, and this causes them to
        place their faith in Christ.

        Born again is about baptism not some faith based conversion.” In fact, Jesus’ famous “born again” discourse of John 3:3-5, which is where we find the words “born again” in Scripture, teaches us about the essential nature of baptism:

        Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless
        one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicode’mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I
        say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the
        kingdom of God.”

        John 3:22: Immediately after Jesus’ “born again” discourse to Nicodemus, what does He do? “… Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.” It appears he baptized folks. This is the only time in Scripture we find Jesus apparently actually baptizing.

        John 4:1-2: Jesus’ disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus’ command. It appears from the text, Jesus most likely only baptized his disciples and then they baptized everyone else.

        In summary, Jesus was baptized, transformed the “baptismal” waters, and then gave his famous “born again” discourse. He then baptized before commissioning the apostles to go out and baptize. To deny Jesus was teaching us about baptism in John 3:3-5 is to ignore the clear biblical context.

        Moreover, John 3:5 is not describing two events; it describes one event. The text does not say “unless one is born of water and then born again of the Spirit…” It says “unless one is born of water and Spirit…” If we hearken back to the Lord’s own baptism in John 1 and Matt. 3, we notice when our Lord was baptized the Holy Spirit descended simultaneously upon him. This was one event, involving both water and the Spirit. And so it is with our baptism. If we obey God in being baptized—that’s our part of the deal—we can count on God to concurrently “open the heavens” for us and give us the Holy Spirit.

        And finally, it would be anachronistic to read into Jesus’
        use of “water” to mean physical birth in John’s gospel. In fact, St. John had just used a word to refer to physical birth in John 1:12-13, but it wasn’t “water:”

        But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

        St. John here tells us we are not made children of God by birth (“of blood”), or by our own attempts whether they be through our lower nature (“of the flesh”) or even through the higher powers of our soul (“the will of man”); rather, we must be born of God, or by God’s power. Notice, St. John refers to natural birth colloquially as “of blood,” not “of water.”

        I Peter 3:20-21: “… in the days of Noah during the
        building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

        Romans 6:3-4: “Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”

        Galatians 3:27: “For all of you who were baptized into
        Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”

        I Cor. 12:13: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized
        into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit (See also Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 and Col. 2:11-13).

        Baptism is the door for the unsaved to be brought into
        Christ, it is emphasized by Christ when He spoke of being “born of water and spirit.” Baptism is the instrument of new birth according to the New Testament.

        The Holy Trinity, is a Catholic Doctrine, The Term itself
        originates from the Early Church Fathers, St. Theophilus of Antioch (120-190 A.D.), Bishop of Antioch, Philosopher of the Easter Roman Empire, He first applied the term trinity to this Biblical concept as early as 181 A.D. But it was the Anathasian Creed, completed some time in the fifth century, which stated it most clearly: “We worship one God in trinity, and trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons, nor separating the substance.”

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray please STOP cutting and pasting, it would take a month of sundays to answer all of this! Granted, a lot is true. So for now I will touch on predestination, You say it is not true, not in the Bible, I say it is true, BUT not the way you take it, and it is not the way many Protestant teachers claim, for they took the thought that God was completely done with the Jews/Israel, therefore all the promises to the Jews/Israel were transferred to the church! When in fact the Predestined/Elect group were fore ordained to be the group of people that through their lineage would bring into the world, Christ in the flesh! That group was the Jews?Israel! Read about it in Romans, chapters 9-1
        Rapture — Thessalonians and all Christianity were told they would not go through WRATH, and were told to in, 1 Thes.4:18 comfort one another with these words, I personally wouldn’t be comforted if I were told you are going through wrath.
        We are told at the Rapture, (caught up one and the same) the Lord would come as a thief in the night, I used to get mad at people that claimed it would be a SECRET, but if you really look at it , coming as a thief in the night , you could look at the rapture as a secret.
        Think it over in Mt 24— it states after the sun and moon are darkened Jesus will return. I think, what I call the tribulation saints, those that are converted, saved, born again, AFTER the rapture, would know after the sun and moon are darkened , immediately Jesus will come , that is not a thief in the night situation , for they know immediately after the sun and moon go dark Jesus is coming!! thus the rapture happends some time before the great tribulation (last 3.5 years ) not at the end of the great tribulation.

      • JuliePurple

        Whoa, Dwayne, you and I agree on something! I’d like for Ray to stop cutting and pasting, too. Yay! We finally agree on something! Awesome!

      • ray

        Rapture, is repackaged goods (from James Darby) sold by the ‘c’h'*ristian-z’io*’ni’st movement to justify and sell wars in the mid-e*ast, and one of their foundations is the perverted 19th cent Schofield bible. This is to establish a m’a's’o'n’i'c world govt-’sr’a*hell. Their so called bible-belt preachers and churches are their biggest cheerleaders and marketers for this. The other problem w/your theory is the one who built this monster are a’postate *’j'*e’*w’*i’*s’*h’ central b’ank’sters – (‘*Rot*hschilds, Schi*ffs, Wa’rb*urg families) their agents Rockefs, Morguean etc, this is through financing and bankrolling fiat money to Wall Street, to employ the machinations of com’m*unism, na*z’is’m, fasci’sm, globalism, ca’p*i’talism, nafta, wto, u.n., etc. to built this beast. The primary goal is a world communist dictatorship, the duped West and the whole world is programmed through their media, that is why there is no peaceful solution in that region, and has totally bankrupt the U.S. and the whole world. These apostates are not biblical-*’j'*e’*w’*w*s” (Rev. 3:9), they are from the ashk.. tribe they have no lineage in that region as they claim to be and are extremely racists rooted from their… ‘*t’a'l*m’u*d’ic code. J’e'r’usal was destroyed as prophesied by Christ, this is due for their refusal to believe that Christ is the Son of God (Divine) and condemning Him to death, that is why their so-called temple of solomon was destroyed.

        A rapture event is not explicitly and implicitly stated in the bible, that is why evangelicals cannot establish a firm doctrine for it. Christ will only come twice on this earth – that is throughout The Virgin Birth and Judgement day, within that period He told His Apostles that there would be great tribulations (wars, earthquakes, famine, etc) but an event beforehand being snatched from heaven is “wishful thinking”. Harold Camping, Hal Lindsay are the famous apostates that has been promoting this fallacy, how come people do not understand there is no time and space with God, predictions on God’s Divine plan leads to more error, all these no of years, dates will always fall short, why people still believes on this is beyond me.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray, I tell you one thing, then when I get a chance I will go thru the Doctrine of Being “”caught up”" , the “”rapture”"
        OK, here is the one thing, Jesus doesn’t come to earth during the rapture as YOU say he does.
        One more thing, in your last sentence above, you state, “” why people still believes this is beyond me”" ! You say at the very end Jesus will come and catch us up, which will be very funny, why catch us up and turn right around and bring us back to earth??????????
        What you need to do is stop cutting and pasting , and study for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • ray

        Rapture is a z’i'o-scam, which of course you are still ignoring right now… I don’t care how you still hold up to this false doctrine, even majority of protestants now disagree with this, they have seen the damaged it has done to a lot of its members, it is based on fear mongering and anticipation of something that is not gonna happen. True Christian believers will be caught up with Christ, but this is not the false doctrine of rapture.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray
        Try telling all that cut and paste to the church of the Thessalonians!! I don’t think they will think what the Apostle Paul told them, ( about the Rapture ), was a , (Z-I*O!N+I.S.T.I*C*) scam!!!
        There will be a one world wide gov’t , and I don’t care how or who the Lord uses , to bring it to pass!
        In reading a lot of your posts , you sound like someone I was dealing with a year ago, you sure your name is ray???

      • ray

        LOL!!! That is right, you don’t care LOL!!! If it is not a scam just look at who is financing and sponsoring religious fundamentalism (evangelicalism), why is it that John Hagee, Jerry Fallwell and all their minions in the bible belt area, etc is always in bed with the z”i*o’-lobby?? Why do they promote this agenda in opposite of Christian morals and beliefs under the guise of perpetual victimization? They are not even ethnically connected in that area. Either your blind or you have a stockholm syndrome, no wonder you are a preacher. Isn’t it ironic that these so-called “bible only” believing Christians (if they are Christians at all) believe in this whirlwind unbiblical explanation and at the same time accuse others of being unbiblical? Why would you support a group that historically detest and hates Christ. There are millions in the world who knows this z*’i”8o*-evangelical scam, not just me, they are outed and they know it, it has already bankrupt the bible belt area and the whole world.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray??
        Just curious ,,,, What do you think the 1st 3.5 years of the tribulation will be like??
        Now,,,, What do you think the last 3.5 years of the great trib will be like,,,,,( also called the Time of Jacob’s great trouble ) ??????

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I agree with you , we will not know the day or hour of Jesus return, But Jesus himself said, in Lk. 4:19 that he preached the acceptable year that he would return… Question what year do think THAT acceptable year of Jesus’ return is???

      • Pastor Dwayne

        OK , Ray, once again, Jesus said, “”" I will come as a thief in the night”"”, Compared to Matt, Mark and luke, when they wrote of the end of the tribulation, the time of Jacobs trouble, saying, as Jesus is coming the second time, the WHOLE WORLD WILL SEE, Jesus coming!!!!! So why did Jesus say, “”" I will come as a thief in the night “”"?????
        A thief alone knows when he is going to break into the strong mans house, I guess you could call it a SECRET!!!
        What did Jesus say!!!! I WILL COME AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT, WHY?? To take his bride , the church to His Fathers house! When Jesus comes the second time, Rev 19:17, there is a army wearing the clothing that the Bride is wearing in verse 7 or 8. The Bride, the church which is in heaven, because of the snatching away, (The rapture)
        is coming back with Jesus to set up His kingdom on earth , and will reign with Jesus for a 1,000 years!,

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The Rapture is not repackaged goods, Ray as you say! It is in the Bible , The Bible also says that God has blinded the eyes of those who do not want to know the truth!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Still not a reason to Worship Mary as you do, the Bible says do not bow down to a statue , it also says don’t make statues of any kind!

      • ray

        Because God ordered Moses and Solomon to make graven images to be put inside the Temple, the Altar, the Sanctuary, the Tabernacle and the Holy of Holies.

        The Bible has presented a lot of passages describing the Temple designed by God as full of images of Cherubims, Flowers, Palms, Fruits, Bulls, Lions, etc. These are all images in the Temple of God. One of which and the most popular is the ARK OF THE COVENANT with two large graven images of Angels sculpted in wood and gold.

        Then Solomon KNELT in front of the Altar [1 Kings 8:54] while Joshua KNELT before the Ark of the Lord [Joshua 7:6].

        Exodus 20:4-5, Deuteronomy 5:8-9 refers to idols. But not all of the pictures is “idol or idols”. Because God decided to build itself as an image or graven image. If all images are banned what else why did the Lord God commands more pictures:

        Adorn the Ark of the Covenant: 
Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold; of beaten work shalt thou make them, at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end: of one piece with the mercy seat, you make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.

        BRAZEN SERPENT: 
Numbers 21:9 And Moses to make a serpent of brass and put it upon a pole: and it came to pass, that have bitten the snake lives beheld the serpent of brass,

        Statue and carving WITHIN THE TEMPLE OF JERUSALEM: 
1 Kings 6:23 [Good News] “In the Holy of Holies, he assumed two cherubim, IMAGE ON WOOD carved olive. Fifteen feet above each other. ”

        1 Kings 6:29 
He carved AND ALL THE HOUSE OF THE carved figures of cherubim and palm trees, and open FLOWERS, THE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.

        1 Kings 6:32 [Good News] “as the two boards of olive staple, and fluted THIS image of cherubim, palm trees and flowers. The panara’y inlaid gold fitted fitted with etched PHOTOS. ”

        1 Kings 7:29 
And side COVER IN BETWEEN ledges were lions, oxen, and cherubim; and upon the ledges there was a pedestal above; and beneath the lions and oxen were wreaths of hanging work.

        Ezekiel 41:19 
So that FACE WITH SOMEONE IN PLACE OF THE HEAD OF A PLACE IN PALMA, and face of a young lion toward the palm tree on the other side. Thus it was made through all the house round about:

        Ezekiel 41:20 
FROM THE FLOOR TO THE TOP OF THE DOOR IS cherubim and palm trees made: Thus the walls of the temple.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        1 Kings 8:54, says Solomon was kneeling and praying to God!
        Joshua was also kneeling and praying to God.
        Again,,, getting Born (from above), Again, and having your name written in the Lambs book of life , at that instance you become a Christian, NOT belonging to a church establishment!!! The RCC establisment think they are the true church. When in fact, the TRUE church is made up of all TRUE Born Again believers coming out of all churches even including the RCC, But you have to according to Jesus, be Born Again to enter the kingdom of God.
        Read Romans 10:9 below ,, he is speaking the truth

      • newgirl

        very true-as is written even in the Catholic version-”Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.” (Mark 6:3)

      • ray

        THEREFORE, JESUS IS THE ONLY SON OF THE FATHER AND OF THE VIRGIN MARY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

        The Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary Revealed

        - The Bible says James is the Lord’s brother but it did not specify if they are siblings, uterine brothers, half brothers, blood brothers, or step-brothers:

        Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (Mt 13:55, KJV)

        Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judah, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. (Mk 6:3, KJV)

        But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother. (Gal 1:19, KJV)

        - If the Bible’s intent is a consanguineous relationship or of the same blood or origin, it resorts to circumlocution or the use of an unnecessarily large number of words to express an idea like in these verses:

        - Circumlocution of uterine brothers:

        And his father had not displeased him at any time in saying, Why hast thou done so? and he also was a very goodly man; and his mother bare him after Absalom. (1 Kgs 1:6, KJV)

        Yet his father never rebuked him or asked why he was doing this. Adonijah was also very handsome, and next in age to Absalom by the same mother. (1 Kgs 1:6, NAB)

        - Circumlocution of uterine sisters:

        Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: (Ezek 23:2, KJV)

        Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother, (Ezek 23:2, NAB)

        - Circumlocution of blood brothers or siblings:

        We be twelve brethren, sons of our father; one is not, and the youngest is this day with our father in the land of Canaan. (Gen 42:32, KJV)

        ‘There were twelve of us brothers, sons of the same father; but one is gone, and the youngest one is at present with our father in the land of Canaan.’ (Gen 42:32, NAB)

        - Circumlocution of cousins:

        And the name of Saul’s wife was Ahinoam, the daughter of Ahimaaz: and the name of the captain of his host was Abner, the son of Ner, Saul’s uncle. (1 Sam 14:50, KJV)

        Saul’s wife, who was named Ahinoam, was the daughter of Ahimaaz. The name of his general was Abner, son of Saul’s uncle, Ner; (1 Sam 14:50, NAB)

        Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it. (Jer 32:7, KJV)

        Hanamel, son of your uncle Shallum, will come to you with the offer: “Buy for yourself my field in Anathoth, since you, as nearest relative, have the first right of purchase.” (Jer 32:7, NAB)

        - Circumlocution of Jesus’ cousins James and Joses:

        - Jesus’ aunt Mary:

        Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. (Jn 19:25, KJV)

        So that is what they did. Standing near the cross were Jesus’ mother, Mary, his aunt, the wife of Cleopas, and Mary Magdalene. (Jn 19:25, The Living Bible by Tyndale)

        - Jesus’ cousins James and Joses are the sons of His aunt Mary:

        Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children. (Mt 27:56, KJV)

        There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; (Mk 15:40, KJV)

        And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. (Mk 16:1, KJV)

        It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. (Lk 24:10, KJV)

        - The Father of Jesus is God through the Holy Spirit:

        Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Lk 1:34-35, KJV)

        Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Mt 1:18-21, KJV)

        Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (Jn 5:18, KJV)

        Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: (Jn 8:54, KJV)

        Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (Jn 20:17, KJV)

        - Jesus is the only begotten Son of God:

        And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (Jn 1:14, KJV)

        No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn 1:18, KJV)

        For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn 3:16, KJV)

        He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jn 3:18, KJV)

        - The mother of Jesus is Mary the betrothed of Joseph:

        And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) to be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. (Lk 2:4-7, KJV)

        Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Mt 1:24-25, KJV)

        - Jesus is the only Son of Mary (“THE son of Mary” and not “A son of Mary”):

        Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judah, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. (Mk 6:3, KJV)

        And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech 12:10, KJV)

        - Like a pretext to conceal God was already made flesh or manifested in the flesh until the proper time is nigh, Joseph and Mary were betrothed and married, and they made it known that Jesus is their only Son to make it appear that they lived a normal and legitimate ordinary Jewish family:

        But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, (Gal 4:4, KJV)

        Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Mt 1:18-25, KJV)

        In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (Jn 1:1; 1:14, KJV)

        And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Tm 3:16, KJV)

        And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (Lk 2:48-52, KJV)

        And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, (Lk 3:23, KJV)

        - The father of James the Lord’s brother (cf Gal 1:19) is Alphaeus, and not Joseph:

        Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; (Mt 10:3, KJV)

        And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite, (Mk 3:18, KJV)

        Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, (Lk 6:15, KJV)
        And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. (Act 1:13, KJV)

        - The mother of James is the other Mary, wife of Cleophas aka Alphaeus, and not the Virgin Mary:

        Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. (Jn 19:25, KJV)

        And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. (Mt 27:61, KJV)

        In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Mt 28:1, KJV)

        Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children. (Mt 27:56, KJV)

        There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; (Mk 15:40, KJV)

        And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. (Mk 16:1, KJV)

        It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. (Lk 24:10, KJV)

        • The Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus and Mary the mother of James are sisters (short for sisters-in-law):

        Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. (Jn 19:25, KJV)

        • If Mary the mother of James is the sister or sister-in-law of the Virgin Mary the mother of Jesus, then the former Mary is also the sister or sister-in-law of Joseph, the known husband of the Ever Virgin Mary. Thus, if Mary the mother of James is the sister or sister-in-law of Joseph and the Virgin Mary, then that other Mary is the aunt of Jesus:

        So that is what they did. Standing near the cross were Jesus’ mother, Mary, his aunt, the wife of Cleopas, and Mary Magdalene. (Jn 19:25, The Living Bible by Tyndale)

        Ergo, James the son of Mary the aunt of Jesus, is the Lord’s cousin and not His sibling, uterine brother, half brother, blood brother, or step-brother.

        - If Mary the mother of James is the sister or sister-in-law of Joseph, then her husband Cleophas aka Alphaeus is the brother of Joseph (see here).

        - Excerpt from Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible on Matthew 13:55 (see here):

        “Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” (Mt 13:55, KJV)

        And his brethren; not strictly so, but either the sons of Joseph by a former wife; or Mary’s, or Joseph’s brothers or sisters sons, and so cousins to Christ; it being usual with the Jews to call such, and even more distant relations, brethren: James; the son of Alphaeus, or Cleophas, one of Christ’s disciples, Matthew 10:3 called the Lord’s brother, Galatians 1:19 and the same that wrote the epistle that bears his name: and Joses; or Joseph, as the Vulgate Latin, and Munster’s Hebrew Gospel read; and which two names are one and the same: hence, in Talmudic writings, we often read of R. Jose, who is the same with R. Joseph (w): this Joses is, by Dr. Lightfoot, conjectured to be the same with Joseph, called Barsabas, who was put in nomination for apostleship, after the death of Judas, Acts 1:23. And Simon; or Symeon, the son of Cleophas, who is said (x) to succeed James, as bishop of Jerusalem, and to be Christ’s cousin, being son of Cleophas, the brother of Joseph, the supposed father of Christ: and Judas; the same that is called Lebbaeus, and Thaddaeus, Matthew 10:3 and the brother of James, Luke 6:16 and the same that wrote the epistle that goes by his name.

        And his sisters,…. Whose names, according to Epiphanius (b), were Mary and Salome; whom he supposes were the daughters of Joseph, by a former wife; but rather of Alphaeus or Cleophas,

        ▪ Excerpt from Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible on John 19:25 (see here):

        “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.” (Jn 19:25, KJV)

        Now there stood by the cross of Jesus,…. So near as not only to see him, but to hear him speak: his mother; the mother of Jesus, Mary; which showed her affection to Christ, and her constancy in abiding by him to the last; though it must be a cutting sight, and now was fulfilled Simeon’s prophecy, Luke 2:35 to see her son in such agonies and sorrow, and jeered and insulted by the worst of men; and though she herself was exposed to danger, and liable to be abused by the outrageous multitude; and it also showed that she stood in need, as others, of a crucified Saviour; so far was she from being a co-partner with him in making satisfaction for sin, as the Papists wickedly say: and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas. The Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions distinguish Mary the wife of Cleophas from his mother’s sister, by placing the copulative and between them, and so make two persons; whereas one and the same is intended, and who was the sister of Mary, the mother of Christ; not her own sister, for it is not likely that two sisters should be of the same name; but her husband Joseph’s sister, and so her’s; or else Cleophas was Joseph’s brother, as Eusebius from Hegesippus says (k): and who was also not the daughter of Cleophas, as the Arabic version has here supplied it; much less the mother of him; but his wife, as is rightly put in our translation: for, according to the other evangelists, she was the mother of James and Joses, and who were the sons of Cleophas or Alphaeus; which are not the names of two persons, nor two names of one and the same person, but one and the same name differently pronounced; his true name in Hebrew was or or “Chelphi”, or “Chelphai”, or “Chilphi”, a name frequently to be met with in Talmudic and Rabbinic writings; and so a Jewish writer (l) observes, that , “Chilpha is the same as Ilpha”; and in Greek may be pronounced either Cleophas, or Alphaeus, as it is both ways: ignorance of this has led interpreters to form different conjectures, as that either the husband of this Mary had two names; or that she was twice married to two different persons, once to Alphaeus, and after his death to Cleophas; or that Cleophas was her father, and Alphaeus her husband; for neither of which is there any foundation. She was no doubt a believer in Christ, and came and stood by his cross; not merely to keep her sister company, but out of affection to Jesus, and to testify her faith in him:

        - Excerpt from Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible on Galatians 1:19 (see here):

        “But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.” (Gal 1:19, KJV)

        But other of the apostles saw I none,…. This is observed to show, that as he did not receive the Gospel from Peter, so neither from any of the other apostles, whom he did not so much as see, much less converse with; save James the Lord’s brother; not James the son of Zebedee, the brother of John, whom Herod slew with the sword; but James the son of Alphaeus, he who made the speech in the synod at Jerusalem, Acts 15:13 was the writer of the epistle which bears his name, and was the brother of Joses, Simon, and Judas, who are called the brethren of Christ, Matthew 13:55 and that because they were the kinsmen and relations of Christ according to the flesh, it being usual with the Jews to call such brethren. The relation came in and stood thus; this James was James the less, the son of Mary the wife of Cleophas, Mark 15:40 which Cleophas was the brother of Joseph, the husband of Mary the mother of our Lord, as Eusebius, from Hegesippus, relates; and so our Lord and this James were brothers’ children, as was supposed: or else the wife of Cleophas the mother of James, was sister to Mary the mother of Christ, as she is called, John 19:25 and so they were sisters’ children, or own cousins; and thus Jerom (t), after much discourse on this subject, concludes that Mary the mother of James the less was the wife of Alphaeus, (or Cleophas, which is the same,) and the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom the Evangelist John surnames Mary of Cleophas; and persons in such a relation, and even uncles and nephews, were called brethren by the Jews; see Genesis 12:5 nor is James one of our Lord’s disciples being called his brother, any contradiction to John 7:5 as the Jew (u) affirms, where it is said, “neither did his brethren believe in him”; since they might not believe in him then, and yet believe in him afterwards: besides, Christ had brethren or relations according to the flesh, distinct from his disciples and apostles, and his brethren among them; see Matthew 10:1 such as were James, Judas, and Simon; nor does the Evangelist John say, that none of Christ’s brethren believed in him, only that they that came to him and bid him go into Judea did not. Some have been of opinion that a third James, distinct from James the son of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus, is here meant; who was not of the twelve apostles, and was surnamed James the just, and called the brother of Christ because of his faith, wisdom, and becoming conversation; but certain it is, that this James was of the number of the apostles, as appears from the exceptive clause, “other of the apostles saw I none, save James”, &c. and from his being put with Cephas and John, who were pillars and the chief among the apostles; and besides it was James the son of Alphaeus, who was surnamed the “just”, and Oblias (w), and presided over the church at Jerusalem, and was a man of great esteem among the Jews; and is by (x) Josephus, as here, called the brother of Jesus.

        • PAUL MADE A SOLEMN OATH TO GOD that the Apostle James the son of Alphaeus is one and the same James the brother of the Lord:

        Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. (Gal 1:18-20, KJV)

        Then three years later I went to Jerusalem to get to know Peter, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. The only other apostle I met at that time was James, the Lord’s brother. I declare before God that what I am writing to you is not a lie. (Gal 1:18-20, New Living Translation)

        It was not until three years later that I finally went to Jerusalem for a visit with Peter, and stayed there with him for fifteen days. And the only other apostle I met at that time was James, our Lord’s brother. (Listen to what I am saying, for I am telling you this in the very presence of God. This is exactly what happened – I am not lying to you.) (Gal 1:18-20, The Living Bible by Tyndale)

        - Facts gleaned from the foregoing Biblical passages and excerpts:

        The Father of Jesus: God the Father through the Holy Spirit.

        The only begotten Son of God the Father through the Holy Spirit: Jesus.

        The mother of Jesus: the Ever Virgin Mary, the untouched and unmolested cohabitant of the righteous Joseph.

        The only Son of Mary: Jesus.

        The assumed father of Jesus: Joseph.

        The father of James: Cleophas aka Alphaeus the husband of the other Mary, and the brother of Joseph, brother-in-law of Mary and uncle of Jesus

        The mother of James: the other Mary, the wife of Cleophas aka Alphaeus and sister or sister-in-law of Joseph and the Virgin Mary, and aunt of Jesus.

        The cousins of Jesus: James, Joses, Simon, Judas, (Mary, and Salome – from Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible in Bible Hub).

        The siblings, uterine brothers/sisters, half brothers/sisters, blood brothers/sisters, or step-brothers/sisters of Jesus: NONE!

        • CONCLUSION:
        We therefore conclude that James is not the Lord’s sibling but His cousin aka His brother, that is, His relative according to the flesh for He himself shared in the blood and flesh of Abraham’s descendants:

        For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:3-5, KJV)

        Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (Heb 2:14-16, KJV)

        THEREFORE, JESUS IS THE ONLY SON OF THE FATHER AND OF THE VIRGIN MARY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I’m not going to take time to go through all of the cut and paste, although I read it.
        THE real issue here is not if Jesus had brothers and sisters! The real issue is the ROMAN catholic church using all the cut and pastes to protect their favorite false sacred tradition that Mary is sinless, false, false, false.
        But again, the Greek word for brother is not the Greek word for cousin. Mt. 1:25 says Joseph did not have sex with mary until after Jesus was born! and the RCC’s translation of the word until does not hold water either!
        Ray, don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to tear up the RCC
        I wan’t to see them get back to the original Apostolic teachings. Ray, every roman catholic that I have led into the true born again experience , has immediatly left the RCC ! And after being in church for a while, they will stand up and testify and say they used to go to the RCC , but they have been born again, and can’t beleive they believed all those lies they were taught since childhood! The RCC HAS to get back to the origin Apostolic teachings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • ray

        Are you reading the New Living Translation? Mat 1:25But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

        International Standard Version
        He did not have marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son; and he named him Jesus.

        So how come all these new translations have marital/sexual connotations on it and the old ones below doesn’t?

        (KJV) MAT 1:25
        And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

        Douay-Rheims Bible
        And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

        So would you rather believe, the new translations or the old translations? There is no mentioned of a marriage and having babies after Jesus was born on these old translations?
        My question is if He really did have bros & sis:
        How come Jesus, dying on the cross entrusted Mary His Mother to His Apostle, John, not to His brothers? Where are they during the Resurrection? If Mary Magdalene and other Jesus’ friends are there to witness it, where is his brothers? During His ministry/priesthood aren’t they suppose, at least to play a role in His time here on earth? Where are they during the crucifixion? Why only Mary, Mary Magdalene and John on the foot of the cross? Where in the bible that at least Jesus mentioned them during His lifetime here on earth (only once)? Where is His brothers during His Ascension? At least He should have invited them since they are so called biological brothers? Where are they during the Pentecost? Didn’t it happen in the House of Mary & Jesus?Aren’t they at least to participate as witness on the Divinity of Christ? Why only mention once or twice? Where is St. Joseph after the Birth of Christ? Why did He disappear? This has been debated since the 4th Century by St. Jerome and Helvidius, I believe in the theory that these so called brothers are from St. Joseph’s previous marriage, that is just me saying. You should know that the original book of Matthew was in Hebrew / Aramaic and there is no word for cousin before it was translated to greek. “Eusebius himself declared that “Matthew had begun by preaching to the Hebrews, and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own Gospel to writing in his native tongue [Aramaic], so that for those with whom he was no longer present the gap left by his departure was filled by what he wrote” (History of the Church 3:24 [inter 300-325]).” I have to go to church history rather than interpreted by fly by night evangelical preachers.

        Sorry, I have been to a lot of evangelical/bible only-born again worships and services, but they have never been successfully convinced me to join their group and that is a fact, from classmates, friends, relatives never ever, invites we have all accomodated them, you name it I have been there, that is why my opening question statement are their false & unbiblical dogmas!! Rapture, dispensationalism, sola scriptura and fide, social gospel, tribulations both pre and posts, etc. and all their hip-hopping dogmas. The biggest turn-off is their entire dogmas and recruitment slogan is about “anti-catholicism”, they hate the RCC but they try to emulate their structure and heirarchy, even the so called “born again” pastors at work are even more infalliable than the Pope. Rosary and the Sacraments are the most effective for me, and it sure works!! It is not a merely a copy and paste thing, it is in devotion, sacrifice and prayer that you will get the fullness of Christ not by joining another denomination.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        RAAAYYY Mt.1:25—-”knew her not”",,,, I am sure you have read in the old Testament , where it used the phrase , “”knew her”" as meaning having sexual relations with his wife. . The newer translations say, “sexual relations”, for people that haven’t read the old testament , The newer translations also bring in “”homosexuality “” that the older versions also don’t have.
        Peter, you said what — Peter’s name was used first 155 times, more than all the other Apostles. Please don’t get mad. I don’t twist or yank scripture like you do to prove your traditions that are false ……Think about it Would Peter, because he is the Apostle to the Jews/Israel ask a lot of questions ? Would Jesus because Peter is the Apostle to the Jews/Israel , address Peter with much information to perform his duties to the Jews/Israel?
        Because Peter is the Apostle to the Jews/Israel would God send Peter to the Gentiles, Cornelious,sp,so that Peter would the Gentiles also belong to God’s church Answer to all the above, YES
        Paul built on his own foundation to the Romans! Paul was leting them and us that he won’t build a church up if someone else had already started the work. But you say it was Peter that founded the church at rome! Question, why would Paul write 16 chapters to the church at Rome, One good reason, is Apostle Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles. Peter was not papa to the ROMAN catholic church , because he was preforming his duties to the Jews/Israel church in Israel!!!!

      • ray

        If Mary who is betrothed (married) to Joseph, was planning on having intercourse with Joseph, why did she not understand the announcement of conception? “How shall this happen…? Mary said. Would she not have presumed that the Child would be Joseph’s son? or why would Mary question Angel Gabriel? If she had planned on having (sexual) relations with Joseph, why was she surprised to hear that she would have a child?

        Jesus was not an illegitimate Child!!! There is no way God would conceive a Child with Mary without first espousing her. Mary was espoused to God by a vow of virginity. A vow of virginity is a vow of espousal to God:
        total consecration to God her Spouse.

        Mary was not a surrogate mother for God’s Son! Humans can espouse themselves to God if they want to. The Church is the Bride of Christ, we will all be espoused to God for ever in Heaven. Nuns, Brothers, Religious take vows of Poverty, Chastity (Virginity for virgins) and obedience to God. In other words they marry God in this life to be more perfectly espoused to Him in the next. Mary had to be espoused (Vow of virginity) to God before she conceived Jesus otherwise Jesus was an llegitimate Child.

        ‎”Before they came to live together she was found to be with child”. In reality she was already married to God and had a Son. There is no way God would conceive a Child out of wedlock.

        Would a Christian man conceive a child with a woman before marrying her? No! Neither would God. God is not a spiritual fornicator or spiritual adulterer. Mary had to espouse herself to Him before He conceived the Child in her womb.

        Your position is that Mary was a surrogate mother for His Son. Sorry God does not use surrogate mothers. If He conceives a Child in a woman He would have to be spiritually espoused to her even though she is only a
        mere creature. God does not break His own rules.

        Jesus could not have been born of Mary unless she had taken a vow of virginity for the love of God. It would have been compulsory for her to totally give herself to God before she conceived His Son.

        So why was Mary married to Joseph? 2 reasons: 1) Because Joseph was of royal descent then by adoption into Joseph’s lineage Jesus became a descendent of David.

        2) For very practical reasons Mary who was a single mother had to have a husband for appearance purposes. She would have always been under
        the risk of stoning to death otherwise. Joseph was that very special holy and devout person who was capable of living under the same roof as God and who must
        also have been consecrated to God in virginity.

        Your sexualization of their union suggests that Jesus is an illegitimate child? bec. Mary had more children (sexual relations) with Joseph? Would this be an acceptable thing? You are forcing modern notions of marriage upon the 1st century Jews. Protestants should understand the Old Testament and Jewish law. According to Jewish law, because Mary conceived of someone other than Joseph, Joseph would have been bound to divorce Mary and he could never have conjugal relations with her (see Deut. 24:1-4; Jer. 3:1-2).

        When (Joseph) was informed by the angel that the child conceived was conceived of the Holy Ghost, he would have immediately known (being the just man that he was) that he would have responsibility to care for her and protect her though he could not have conjugal relations with her because she belonged to someone else (see II Samuel 16:20-22; 20:3 for an analogous case in the Old Testament). The Holy Ghost would not be able to sign legal documents or protect Mary from a mob who may have wanted to execute “street justice” on her for appearing to be an adulterer.

        There is no way God would conceive a Child with Mary without first espousing her. Mary was espoused to God by a vow of virginity. A vow of virginity is a vow of espousal to God: total consecration to God her Spouse.

        Mary was not a surrogate mother for God’s Son! Humans can espouse themselves to God if they want to. The Church is the Bride of Christ, we will all be espoused to God for ever in Heaven. Nuns, Brothers, Religious take vows of Poverty, Chastity (Virginity for virgins) and obedience to God. In other words they marry God in this life to be more perfectly espoused to Him in the next. Mary had to be espoused (Vow of virginity) to God before she conceived Jesus otherwise Jesus was an llegitimate Child.

        ‎”Before they came to live together she was found to be with child”. In reality she was already married to God and had a Son. There is no way God would conceive a
        Child out of wedlock.

        Would a Christian man conceive a child with a woman before marrying her? No! Neither would God.

        God is not a spiritual fornicator or spiritual adulterer.
        Mary had to espouse herself to Him before He conceived the Child in her womb.

        The Protestant position is that Mary was a surrogate mother for His Son. Sorry God does not use surrogate mothers. If He conceives a Child in a woman He would have to be spiritually espoused to her even though she is only a mere creature. God does not break His own rules.

        Jesus could not have been born of Mary unless she had taken a vow of virginity for the love of God. It would have been compulsory for her to totally give herself to God before she conceived His Son.

        So why was Mary married to Joseph? 2 reasons: 1) Because Joseph was of royal descent then by
        adoption into Joseph’s lineage Jesus became a descendent of David.

        2) For very practical reasons Mary who was a single mother had to have a husband for appearance purposes. She would have always been under
        the risk of stoning to death otherwise. Joseph was that very special holy and devout person who was capable of living under the same roof as God and who must
        also have been consecrated to God in virginity.

        I will ask you the same question again: Jesus really did have bros & sis:
        How come Jesus, dying on the cross entrusted Mary His Mother to His Apostle, John, not to His brothers? Why are they not present during the Resurrection? If Mary Magdalene and other Jesus’ friends are there to witness it, where is his brothers? During His ministry/priesthood aren’t they suppose, at least to play a role in His time here on earth? Where are they during the crucifixion? Why only Mary, Mary Magdalene, Mary wife of Cleopas (sister) and John on the foot of the cross? Where in the bible that at least Jesus mentioned them during His lifetime here on earth (only once)? Where is His brothers during His Ascension? At least He should have invited them since they are so called biological brothers? Where are they during the Pentecost? Didn’t it happen in the House of Mary & Jesus?Aren’t they at least to participate as witness on the Divinity of Christ?

        Again If She (Mary) was planning on having relations with Joseph, what part of “you will conceive” was confusing to her?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray, Ray, ray ,,, In your concept of what you just wrote ,, or in fact what I believe “”cut and paste”"
        Look at fact,, Mary was Joseph’s wife before The Holy Spirit over shadowed Mary! Under your concept of your cut and paste theory, by the way, please read what the cut and paste said! What does that make God????
        Jesus Had To Be Born Of a VIRGIN, therefore Joseph did not have sex during her pregnancy, til After Jesus was Born! then JUST LIKE SCRIPTURE SAYS ( NOT THE rcc’S FALSE TRADITION SAYS), THEN AS SCRIPTURE SAYS, jOSEPH HAD SEX WITH MARY! And as Old Testamen scripture says God is VERY unhappy with man if he spills his seed on the ground, Thus Joseph did not spill his Jesus had brothers and sisters.
        IT IS TIME TO THROW AWAY ALL fALSE TRADITIONS That are not based on the Word of God

      • ray

        LOL!!! Your slights still does not give any account that Mary & Joseph had children after Jesus was born. Where were they when Jesus was in his toddler, adolescent age? In Luke 2, when Jesus was 12, He and ‘His parents’ went up to Jerusalem with their relatives. No mention of “His brethren” here–and why not? So why not here? AND when Jesus is missing, His parents (NOT His ‘parents and siblings’) go looking for Him, (the only mention of her having ANY child at all is in naming Jesus as “the son of Mary”. Why is that? If Mary had had other children, they would have been her first concern after Jesus wouldn’t they? Not the nourishment of the wider family Jesus Himself had instituted–His Body, His Church. My question again that you have not answered: How come Jesus, dying on the cross entrusted Mary His Mother to His Apostle, John, not to His brothers? Why are they not present during the Resurrection? If Mary Magdalene and other Jesus’ friends are there to witness it, where is his brothers? During His ministry/priesthood aren’t they suppose, at least to play a role in His time here on earth? Where are they during the crucifixion? Why only Mary, Mary Magdalene, Mary wife of Cleopas (sister) and John on the foot of the cross? Where in the bible that at least Jesus mentioned them during His lifetime here on earth (only once)? Where is His brothers during His Ascension? At least He should have invited them since they are so called biological brothers? Where are they during the Pentecost? Didn’t it happen in the House of Mary & Jesus?Aren’t they at least to participate as witness on the Divinity of Christ? I would rather have Early Church Fathers explanations, Scriptures, The Protoevangelion of James & Christ geneology much more credible than self-proclaimed high-strung evangelical pastors bias assertions. The other problem with your theory is you want to get off in the sexual intercourse thing, not that is wrong on a married couple, but this theory does not hold any water since protestants cannot back up any solid proof that Jesus really had half (blood) brothers and sisters. Again, you are obsessed on accusing Catholics of twisting scripture but I have asked you time and again on these false and spun doctrines of protestants such as: cheap grace, televangelism, christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, ispensationalism, universalism, televangelism, social gospel, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation – Where Can You Find Them In The Bible? Since you claim to be a bible expert, explain to me or give me a link to back up these so many invented evangelical and protestant doctrines?

      • George

        Why did Mary have to be specially born immaculate? Oh, so that Jesus would also be free of the original sin. But wait, then doesn’t that mean that Mary’s mother also had to be pure of sin, and the same should be true of every woman in her line?
        Let me pose a different idea: There is no original sin. No one is born with original sin. Then you don’t need an immaculate birth for the virgin, because everyone is born without sin. Man has a sin nature, but not a sin when born. See, without original sin you don’t need to start inventing immaculate conception doctrines. You cannot sin until you can speak, that is written. If you are born with sin, then still born babies would have to go to Hell. That is also not written.

      • George

        Response to “ray” below(can’t reply to his comment for some reason).
        The verse in Wisdom 1:4 doesn’t really prove that Mary had to be immaculate. The soul of God entered the body of Jesus, who was physically inside Mary, but was not united spiritually with her.
        Jesus picked sinners for his disciples, ate with sinners, drank with sinners, slept in sinners homes, etc… As far as we know, Joseph was a sinner too. So he had an earthly father who was a sinner, or do we need to make him also immaculate? Why is it so crazy to think that he would be born from a sinner? Mary was blessed, but why do we need to deify her and make her immaculate?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Book, chapter and verse of the BIBLE ,to prove your point,, not the tradition of man, which has a tendency to lie and does not speak the truth of the Bible. What you have said is not found in the Bible, If your Bible which has 7 more books in it than mine, give the Book, Chapter and verse! I will be earnestly waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Alessandra Vincitori

        1 John 3:6 ” Anyone who abides in him does not sin, anyone who sins has not seen him, nor has known him.”

        She not only saw our Lord , but knew him before anyone, she abode in him and he in her. They shared the same blood.

        Second. Have you ever heard of the dead sea scrolls.

        Peace

      • ray

        If your so biblical where can you find the book, chapter and verse of the BIBLE, to prove all these false dogmas by protestant evangelicals:

        C’hristian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, social gospel, prosperity gospel, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation.

        Again, I know these are made-up doctrines, but just to give you the benefit of the doubt can you find them in the bible?

      • newgirl

        This from the Catholic version:”Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.” (Mark 6:3)

      • ray

        Jesus’ “Brothers” (adelphoi)) = Cousins or Kinsmen

        Luke 1:36 – Elizabeth is Mary’s kinswoman. Some Bibles translate kinswoman as “cousin,” but this is an improper translation because in Hebrew and Aramaic, there is no word for “cousin.”

        Luke 22:32 – Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his “brethren.” In this case, we clearly see Jesus using “brethren” to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers.

        Acts 1:12-15 – the gathering of Jesus’ “brothers” amounts to about 120. That is a lot of “brothers.” Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew.

        Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 – these are some of many other examples where “brethren” does not mean blood relations.

        Rom. 9:3 – Paul uses “brethren” and “kinsmen” interchangeably. “Brothers” of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children.

        Gen. 11:26-28 – Lot is Abraham’s nephew (“anepsios”) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 – Lot is still called Abraham’s brother

        (adelphos”) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is “anepsios,” Scripture also uses “adelphos” to describe a cousin.

        Gen. 29:15 – Laban calls Jacob is “brother” even though Jacob is his nephew. Again, this proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin.

        Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 -”brethren” means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for “cousin.”

        2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 – here we see that “brethren” can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend.
        2 Kings 10:13-14 – King Ahaziah’s 42 “brethren” were really his kinsmen.
        1 Chron. 23:21-22 – Eleazar’s daughters married their “brethren” who were really their cousins.
        Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 – these are more examples of “brothers” meaning “cousins” or “kinsmen.”
        Tobit 5:11 – Tobit asks Azarias to identify himself and his people, but still calls him “brother.”
        Amos 1: 9 – brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there is no bloodline).

      • Pastor Dwayne

        ray,, in response to Ro. 9:3 above, ” brothers of Jesus does not prove Mary had other children”", on the other hand, it does not prove that Jesus did not have brothers and sisters, thus Mary had other kids.
        By the way,,the greek word for, “brother” is different than
        the greek word for, “cousin”!
        Also,,,, Mk. 6:3, ” is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James , and Joses, and of Juda, and simon? and are not His sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. Ray, ask yourself , would they be offended if just cousins were there. Ray, these are people that were living next to or real close by, and saw Jesus , his mom and dad, and brothers and sisters as they were growing up!
        Ray you have to know that the ROMAN catholic church was established well after many churches already in existence , the churches of the north and 100′s of miles to the east, were established just a few years AD
        Also, the Apostle Peter was never a pope for the ROMAN catholic church!!!

  • JuliePurple

    Let me get this straight. So many people here are distressed because of a disagreement on:

    1) the meaning of worship
    2) who was or was not sinless, and what that might mean
    2a) virgin or not, and is virginity necessary for sinlessness (if so, too bad for
    all those married people, eh?)
    2b) who was Jesus’ father?
    3) who believes what

    Is that pretty much it?

    Try to remember, none of this is provable and none of it has anything to do with our personal spiritual life. It is all conjecture about something that really doesn’t affect us. So she was (or was not) sinless. I mean, nice for her if she was, but so what?

    • Sixtus_Maximus

      It’s important because of her Percepitation in the salvation of mankind. She starts His ministry at Canna and she’s with Him at the Cross. Mary suffers the pains of Motherhood for all the Catholic Church. On Cavary the Spear that pierces Christ’s Sacred Heart even though Christ was dead it Pierces Mary’s Heart to the fullest because Christ was of her flesh unstained by Original Sin the Piercing affected Mary to fullest an unimaginable pain that fulfilled the prophecy of Simon at the Presentation at the Temple win Jesus was a baby. Another fact bibical that the Protestant reject out right. Therefore in grave

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        Threrfore are in grave error! With major loss of grace do to Heresy and in Mortal Sin!

      • JuliePurple

        Did you mean “participation”? Or “precipitation”? I rather hope it’s the latter, because that would be an awesome pun — since she’s sometimes called the “Queen of Heaven”, and you know, queens reign.
        Well, never mind. I do get that a lot of these rather specialized differences a rather big deal to lots of folks. That’s cool. Whatever floats your boat, as it were.

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        Julie waving your Rainbow Flag again!

      • JuliePurple

        ?? Not sure what you meant there, but it’s cool.

  • Anthony Cowan

    So where is this place Purgatory in scripture ? Also it isn’t Biblical to say that God transforms the soul when we die. We are given a life on earth to determine our fate. This talk is exactly what is wrong today and gives sinners a mind that they will be saved either way. ” you can enter God’s Kingdom through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.” (Matthew 7:13). Tradition is so dangerous.

    • Aerauxel

      Tradition is so dangerous? What commandments did we broke because of our tradition?

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        There the Dogmas of the Holy Church which are broken is Considered a Mortal Sin which places you outside of The Catholic Church which you have to go to Confession in order to return and receive Communion! The Dogmas can not be changed not even the Pope. The Pope can only defend the Dogmas of the Holy Church’s teachings and add Dogmas that only conform to the Dogmas and teachings of the Faith. Pope John Paul II gave one Dogma which the Holy Church can not Change I repeat can not Change not even Pope Frances can Change it and that is the ordination of Women as Priests and even Decons because Decons are Clergy and that has been Dogma also. So as far as

      • Sixtus_Maximus

        There is no getting around those Dogmas. That’s why Pope Francis said Women Priests will never happen it’s not even on the table.

      • JuliePurple

        Oink, oink.

    • PWB

      The teaching of Purgatory is based off of 2 Maccabees, which is a book of the Old Testament that the Protestant reformers threw out of the Bible in the 16th century. It’s important for Protestants to remember that they read from a Bible with only 66, rather than the full 73 books.

  • JuliePurple

    All of this: bible stories, tradition, whatever — every bit of this is guesswork. There is no verifiable proof of it. Nobody really knows whether Mary was a virgin ( and really, there is nothing wrong with the usual method of conception). There is no basis for the concept of original sin, either. It’s all made up.

    • Anthony Cowan

      Actually we believers believe all the word of God and it was foretold in Isaiah 7:14 “therefore The Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive,and bear a son,and shall call his name Immanuel. ”
      This is our proof.

      • glebealyth

        Actually, “…a young woman shall conceive…” according to the Hebrew.
        It is only the mistranslation of Almah (young woman) from Hebrew to parthenos (virgin) in Greek that causes you to believe that a virgin conceived.
        You have been misled.

      • Aerauxel

        this was your point…
        it isn’t misleading

        Was Mary DEVIRGINIZED before She was pregnant?

      • glebealyth

        Was Mary DEVIRGINIZED before She was pregnant?

        We do not know. It is believed on the basis of a poor translation from Hebrew to Greek.

      • Aerauxel

        Early Christian teaching says Mary was Virgin.

        Check your history. Ask Google if you want

        It is believed on the basis of a poor translation from Hebrew to Greek.
        – It is on your OWN belief, not OUR belief… You have poor translation, because it was only said that

        Therefore, the Lord will
        give you a sign. The YOUNG WOMAN is pregnant and is about to give birth
        to a son, and she will name him Immanuel.

        – Isaiah 7:14

        Mary was not with any man, she said. Unless you can proof to use that she was raped

      • glebealyth

        Tradition!

        Tradition also has it that Dionysus was born of a virgin, on Xmas day and rose form the dead.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        Again you seem to be projecting events of your own family history onto others. This is shameful and another example of attention baiting. “Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotions and attention-seeking, including inappropriately seductive behavior and an excessive need for approval, usually beginning in early adulthood. People affected by HPD are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. HPD affects four times as many women as men. It has a prevalence of 2–3% in the general population and 10–15% in inpatient and outpatient mental health institutions.

        HPD lies in the dramatic cluster of personality disorders. People with HPD have a high need for attention, make loud and inappropriate appearances, exaggerate their behaviors and emotions, and crave stimulation. They may exhibit sexually provocative behavior, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and can be easily influenced by others. Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.

      • glebealyth

        As usual, without evidence to present, you resort to serial abuse of anyone who does not hold, or has the temerity to question, your exact beliefs.
        Once more, the love of jesus oozes from your every comment.
        I salute your consistency.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        I have evidence of wonder working power with every breath i take and every beat of my heart- The Glory of the King abounds in my soul and i can see his presence in every one of his creations- even in you- come back brother before its too late- Dont let yourself become as a foolish virgin- Be smart and get yourself some oil for your lamp

      • glebealyth

        Your HPD is showing again, dbc. Physician, heal thyself.

        Present you evidence or you will be seen to be merely a bag of wind.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        I have been healed- by the Blood- the Blood is the life- without it all is doomed. Your “evidence” is as meaningless as your words of Doubt- Do not fool yourself- Your doubt and mockery are symptoms sir of a bigger problem- He has come for you and i. We are sick- He is the physician.

      • glebealyth

        Healed of what, may I ask?

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        Attention- gleebeth needs attention asap

      • glebealyth

        Daddaybigcat, as usual, without evidence to present, resorts to serial abuse of anyone who does not hold, or has the temerity to question, his exact beliefs.

        Once more, the love of jesus oozes from his every comment.
        I salute the consistency.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        Said the minder of exchristian

      • glebealyth

        Take the bee from your bonnet, sir.

        It is most unbecoming.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        Not to put too fine a point on it
        Say I’m the only bee in your bonnet
        Make a little birdhouse in your soul

      • glebealyth

        Please prove the existence of a soul and define its physical location in the human body.
        When you have done that, I will gladly build a birdhouse there.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        So you believe in something then- That is a relief for a minute there i thought you where just a simple communist. Its nice to see there is at lest two dimensions to your shallowness.

      • glebealyth

        Thus speaketh the shortest distance between two points.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        that be the line

      • glebealyth

        Having a single dimension being your forte.

        Before you arrived, we were having a civilized difference of opinion.
        You have endeavoured to change that with your insistence upon the use of vitriol in lieu of discussion.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        Again you play the same broken record. Who ever told you that your misguided opinions are the criteria for determining what civilized debate constitute should be slapped twice and sterilized once gleebeth my friend. As far as your incessant butchery of googled latin and greek are concerned- I would suggest you read a book. I recommend the Bible.

      • glebealyth

        I have read the bible, many, many times.

        Such tales of abuse should come with a warning to the reader.

        You could consider reading some worthwhile texts on Science.

        I presume you have never needed to learn or look up anything.

        This latest comment merely supports other conclusions I have drawn – that your preferred method on engagement and knowledge elicitation is vitriol and rudeness.
        You would have made a good priest, had you not decided to be the midden-keeper of your intellect.

      • princessginac

        She was a Virgin as the Bible says. Isaiah 7:14 -Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign ‘ Behold, a virgin shall conceive , and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel .

      • JuliePurple

        I have to say, I love the word “devirginized “. But what other word could you use without sounding crude?

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        I guess you need attention again.

      • glebealyth

        I guess you need a lesson in discussion, so that you break your habit of serial abuse of any and all who do not agree with your exact belief system.

        You really DO exude the love of jesus, so you not?

        Though you ARE consistent in your abuse.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        some call it REBUKE my lost friend. Do you NOT feel it appropriate?

      • glebealyth

        You are not rebuking, merely abusing. It is possible to rebuke without being gratuitously foul. A lesson you need to learn.

        I suspect rudeness is what you hide your lack of substance behind.

        Nothing you have said to me in your recent chain of abusive comments has been in the least bit appropriate. However, you obviously feel threatened and insecure and feel the need to shoot the messenger rather than address the message.

        You have, rather than address any point I have made, showered me, my parents and others of my family and acquaintance with a disgusting tirade of insults. Is this what is to be expected when you discover that the threat of hell does not have any effect?

        Thank you again, for another demonstration of the all-embracing love of your putative saviour. If this is what he has taught you and your teachers, then he really is not someone that any human with a shred of decency would want to know.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        And what does a person like you know of decency? You are projecting again my maladjusted friend- you shut me out and censored me from ex-c because I dared disagree with you and you have the gumption to make allegations like these? PLEASE! Your so full of it! Do you think you are the decent one? I am laughing so hard at you! Get some help.

      • glebealyth

        bdc, you are being rude again. Please desist.

        I did not shut you out of any web site. I do not run or moderate any website.

        As those who are reading your comments here can plainly see, you are rude, ill-mannered and foul-mouthed, and likely to incur the censorship of any site you visit.
        Were you a little more couth in you approach, you would not have cause for the bitterness you feel.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        I disagree- First- I am not rude- Unless everyone here defines “rude” as you do. Which would be something in your mind like….
        rude
        ro͞od/
        adjective
        adjective: rude; comparative adjective: ruder; superlative adjective: rudest
        1. Disagreeing with gleebeth

      • JuliePurple

        There is nothing wrong with belief in and of itself, but it is not proof. Saying that something is proof does not make it so.
        You believe *all* of the bible? Including the parts about talking snakes and a person being swallowed by a whale???!! If so, dude, I have this nice bridge I could sell you.

      • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

        julie- if the bridge is called obamacare then the answer is No

      • princessginac

        Are you calling the doings and actions of “God” a lie? The Bible accounts took place, if it was not so then why did God” inspired this men to write the scriptures ? To me its proof enough because the “God ” I serve dose not lie . Who do you serve?

      • JuliePurple

        None of that is relevant. The bible is, at best, mythology.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        If you believe that then why are you on a site that is an “online site for spiritual seekers”. If you do not believe God or the bible, and denounce it as “at best mythology” then you should probably seek somewhere more suited to your interests…unless of course your interest is to insult the beliefs of those who DO believe.

      • JuliePurple

        Note, I said “the bible” is at best, mythology.
        How interesting that you have jumped from that to the conclusion that I do not believe in god. Spirituality is greater than any one set of beliefs or texts. I think the god of the bible is a ridiculous concept, but I am happy to say that there are other ways of seeing him/her/it.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I didn’t say you don’t believe in “god”. I said “If you do not believe in God” I have no doubt that you do believe in some “god”. hey the Romans made up new gods for whatever they wanted, so you can too if you want.
        The most popular “gods” for women today usually include something that will empower them like crystals, angels, spirit guides, nature goddesses etc. Just be careful please, because you can end up opening yourself to spiritual dangers with many of these “gods”.

      • JuliePurple

        Okay, now you’re just getting condescending and snarky. Popular gods for women? I’m not about to trade one mythology for another, dude.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        But your logic states that that is exactly what you are doing.
        You said “I think the god of the bible is a ridiculous concept, but I am happy to say that there are other ways of seeing him/her/it.” So you reject the God of the bible who is in your opinion a myth, but then state that “there are other ways of seeing him/her/it.”

        I don’t mean to be “condescending or snarky”. You will find that statistically they are popular beliefs among women. It would seem that the same trick that Eve fell for in the garden, is still working on women today. “you will be like God” if you disobey God.

      • JuliePurple

        You said, “But your logic states that that is exactly what you are doing.” No, it doesn’t. You are reading something extraneous and incorrect into my statement.

        To say that there are other ways of seeing god is a simple fact. Perhaps you have heard of, for example, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Shinto adherents, numerous indigenous populations, Sikhs, Muslims, deists, Jews, Baha’i, Jains, Rastafarians, Zoroastrians, theists, and so forth?

        And statistically belief in the biblical myths are popular among women, as well. But as you can see, that is not the case here. Don’t make assumptions

        Don’t tell me you believe that the whole garden of Eden story is historical fact? That is an insult to intelligence, dude.
        How curious that you seem to think “disobeying god” is the same thing as “not following edicts humans have proposed in the name of god”; those are two very different concepts.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Are you reading back what you have written? You believe that the God of the bible is a “ridiculous concept”, and that the bible is “at best mythology”. But then you go on to say that you believe “there are other ways of seeing him/her/it.” (this mythological god)

        But then you claim that you’re “not about to trade one mythology for another,”

        If you chose to CONCLUDE that the God of the bible is a myth, then EVERY other “god” or view of god MUST also fall into the same category, “myth”. Therefore you ARE just trading one myth for another.

        Why do you believe that the garden of Eden story is an insult to intelligence? Perhaps you think believing the “big bang” theory is intelligent. That takes more faith than believing in God. AND there is less evidence of the big bang than there is of God. Yet so many “intelligent” people want to accept that as fact.

        I don’t believe for a minute that disobeying God is the same as “not following edicts humans have proposed in the name of god”. I believe that the bible IS the inspired word of God.

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, Gary, please just think about it a little bit. Being aware of something’s existence is not at all the same thing as believing that it is true. And you must know that other religions, other philosophies exist in the world that make no use of the bible. It does not follow logically that since I
        believe one is a myth, then therefore so are the rest. Some are, some aren’t. I don’t think any single one of them is totally accurate. That isn’t the point. I was referring specifically to the categories you yourself had mentioned. Gary, I feel that you are very sincere in your
        beliefs, but I’ve noticed you have an alarming tendency to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

        Let me make a wild assumption here and guess that you are not a scientist. Science likes evidence. Proof. Reliable data. And since you think that the bible contains reliable data, there really is no point in our continuing this discussion. I have a viewpoint so different from yours that we might as well be speaking different languages. Therefore, I bid you farewell.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Hmm, I would say that I haven’t jumped to any conclusions, but rather have through logic stated facts.
        I agree that science requires evidence. THAT is why the science world frustrates so many logical people with their unfounded statements about the universe etc.

        But of Course you are right, you and I will not agree…and that’s ok too. Wouldn’t the world be boring if we were all the same. God bless you Julie. Take care.

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, Gary, honey, you made me laugh. But really, I’m done with this. And yes, differences are good. You take care, too.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Now show me your proof that the Garden of Eden did not exist!!

      • JuliePurple

        Sure, dude, just as soon as you show me your proof that the Easter Bunny doesn’t exist. :-)
        Let me give you a bit of advice. You’re really keen on the bible and all that. I get it. That’s cool. But merely repeating your same spiel over and over isn’t really the least bit convincing. The only thing it does is show people you don’t have anything real to add to the equasion. You probably really like saying that stuff over and over, and again, it’s cool. But it’s also really boring, and just as a sort of F.Y.I., I’m not feeding it any more. Good luck with your travels and all.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        your first birth you bragged about won’t get you to heaven, that is why John 3:3 Jesus told a religious man, that he had to get Born Again to see the Kingdom of God!!
        Jesus had three main ministries, 1. preaching the Gospel. 2. casting out demons. 3. laying hands on the sick, and they were healed . John 14:12 Jesus said , the things I do you shall do. If the Bible is a myth, as you say, Christians would not be able to do the three main ministries that Jesus did, RIGHT, I do all three,, Hmmmm.

      • JuliePurple

        LOL!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        And your proof of your belief system!!!
        Remember—-You have to be born again

      • Pastor Dwayne

        And your basis for your believe, and prove it!!

      • JuliePurple

        You’re funny, Dwayne. Nice try, though!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I know ,,,you have non belive hehe, and you can’t prove it!

      • princessginac

        Bible as the only source of our beliefs . We consider our movement to be the result of the Protestant conviction Sola Scripture-the Bible as the only standard for faith and practice for Christians. If it wasn’t for the Bible we wouldn’t have to many Christians of all different religious . JuliePurple you have many posts , some given me the assumption that you , read the Bible and know of God”. What troubles you about the Bible or do you not ask the God” to send the Holy Spirit guide you and help you understand his Word. ( just curious ). Peace be with you.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Princessginac
        Well, I just finished a rather extended debate with Gary, and really am not into going over pretty much the same material again. You’re welcome to read my postings for a general idea of my thoughts on it.
        I wish you well with your spiritual life, but as you might suppose, it’s rather different from mine. Thanks for the good wishes; I wish the same for you.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        until you get Born Again!!!

      • JuliePurple

        Whoa, dude, that is an old comment, and you’re just now seeing it? Please refer to my previous response to you, the one regarding rational thought. Apparently, in your case, being “born again” means losing touch with objective reality. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s kind of out there to lay your personal trip on other people. Just saying. Because your repeating the same thing over and over tells me you don’t have anything new to add.
        And now, PD, I really am done with responding to your silliness.

  • Aaron Creagh

    [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
    [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
    [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

    Catholics may read a different version of the bible than I do, but do they see verses differently than I do? Maybe so. We’ll see.

    Gabriel the angel, was seeing Jesus in Mary before that day fully came about in the world. So was the angel calling Mary “full of grace?”

    To be honest, this Pentecostal thinks that the angel was greeting Mary, and praising the Lord at the same time!

    • http://www.chemtrailareforchildren.gov/ daddybigcat

      Amen his Glory was apparent even at birth. The wisdom of the wise mens gifts amazes me still.

    • Aerauxel

      If you will stick on that verse, you can ALSO conclude that.
      But on Catholic view, they considered lots of things.
      1. The woman prophesied in Genesis that to be an enmity to the Serpent.
      2. The typology of the Ark of the Covenant and Mary was the New Ark of the Covenant.
      3. And the Revelation’s WOMAN that has a crown and who give birth.

  • Johnny

    Mark 7:7′BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’ 8″Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

    • Rob Russo

      It is most certainly not the “tradition of men” nor “precepts” that we, the Catholic Church, hold and teach. The Traditions are the very ones that the apostles taught us (yes, they were “men” too!)  in 2 Tim 3:14, Timothy is told: “continue in the things you have learned …knowing from whom you have learned them.” This verse tells; it’s NOT “men” but Apostolic Tradition. In the same letter, Timothy is informed on how to pass on Christ’s teachings:…things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also. [2 Tim 2:2]St. Paul actually commands the Thessalonian Christians to hold fast to the Traditions taught by the Apostles, both oral and written:So then brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. [2 Thess 2:15; see 1 Cor 11:2]Finally if everything that Jesus and the Apostles did and taught were recorded in the Bible, then why did St. John close his Gospel with this curious verse:But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. [John 21:25, RSV; see 20:30]or his last two Epistles with these verses: 2 John 12 and 3 John 13-14?Jesus in Mark 7:5-13 or Matt. 15:1-9 does not condemn all traditions but those corrupted by the Pharisees. Unlike the human traditions of the Pharisees, Apostolic Tradition is God’s Word spoken through the Apostles, not recorded in the Bible. The Church as promised by Christ (Matt 16:18-19, see front panel; Matt 18:17-18) preserves and teaches the Apostolic Tradition. This Church is the pillar and support of the truth, as is written:… you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. [1 Tim 3:15, NASB; see Eph 2:19-21]Another function of the Church is to explain passages in the Bible. St. Peter warns about teachings in Scripture that are difficult to understand:… as also in all his (St. Paul’s) letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. [2 Pet 3:15-16]According to the Bible, the disciples had to explain the Scriptures. An example is St. Philip explaining the Book of Isaiah to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:30-31. Also this function of the Church includes interpreting the Bible:But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation; for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. [2 Pet 1:20-21]St. Peter in this passage warns us not to personally interpret God’s message (prophecy) in Scripture. The Church being “men moved by the Holy Spirit” can only rightfully serve at this capacity.Even though the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, it is not the only guiding rule of faith. Both the Bible and Apostolic Tradition are the Word of God. Both are important sources for the Faith. The Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ preserves both from corruption and uses both to teach God’s Word with guidance from the Holy Spirit (Matt 28:16-20; John 16:12-15). Just sayin’…… Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All!
      God Bless, Rob

      • princessginac

        30Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

  • Gary Amadeus Hunt

    The Pharisees also had a lot of traditions which they held so dearly that it caused them to miss the Messiah. I believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. Catholics also believe that to be true. The problem is that when ANY tradition or “revelation” clashes or contradicts what it says in the inspired word of God, we need to be very careful. Mary was indeed a sinner by her own admission. If it were possible for even one human to be made perfect apart from the sacrifice of Christ, then He would not have had to suffer the cruelty of the cross. Mary was, however a very devout Jewish girl with JEWISH godly views. With THAT in mind, and by examining the inspired word of God, we can see that Mary would have been a good Jewish wife, mother, daughter etc. She would, as she DID, have had several children with her husband Joseph, and she would run from idols or the worship or veneration of anyone except the one true God. I find the veneration of Mary, this wonderful woman, to be an insult to her memory as a true devout Jewish woman. I do however, believe that the Catholic church insults her in ignorance because of tradition. I do not condemn neither Catholic nor Protestant; But I would advise all who would follow the Great “I AM” to believe His word and obey.

    • osegboh patrick

      I dont understand why you say so catholic church insults her.well Catholic church never insult her or thinks so to do.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I don’t think they mean to insult her, but lets look at it like this: Imagine you hated the concept of abortion, You consider it wrong and against God’s wishes. You live your life dedicated to God. When you die someone puts up an abortion clinic in your name “The osegboh Patric abortion clinic”. Would that not be an insult to your name and all you stood for? The same applies to Mary, who obeyed the Jewish laws to the best of her ability and as such would have abhorred the veneration of idols including herself. Her life in submission to the will of God should be a good example for us, but the moment we start to lift her up as though she were a Goddess, we insult all she was and all she stood for.

      • USAF1956

        Mary is not worshipped, or idolized in the Roman Catholic Church, She as prayed to because she can advocate to God on our behalf. Mary is venerated, as are all saints (albeit above). Veneration is a term that you seem to misunderstand, Mary is not a goddess to us, if you read the prayer “Hail Mary” you we see quickly the request is that she “PRAY FOR US SINNERS”.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I have watched drones of Catholics cry, sing, fight to touch statues of Mary. I have watched them kiss the feet of the statue, buy gold rings and jewels FOR the statue. I have been personally told of several incarnations of “Mary” which can grant special favors. The “prayer” hail Mary is not based on the divine inspired word of God. I was a Catholic for years before I read the truth in the bible. I respect the opinion of neither Catholic nor Protestant. If it is not in God’s word, it is man made tradition just like the many traditions of the Pharisees. There is ABSOLUTELY no biblical reason to believe that Mary or any other dead saint has any special place as an advocate for us. It is however written: For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

      • Kevin Arbuckle

        Amen! Just some scripture that backs up Gary…”For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23. “making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do” Mark 7:13

      • JimB

        Following your LOGIC, Jesus was norn with sin also.>>>>>?????

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        My goodness, are you really arguing with the word of God too? If you cannot even accept what the Scripture so clearly states, then you are truly lost.

      • Aerauxel

        Do you know the ETYMOLOGY of the word
        WORSHIP?
        check out in google, they have new function called word origin
        “word origin worship”

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Yes, thank you. That is a very helpful tool. I always find though that we should look at the original word as written in the Scriptures, first. That way we can understand what exactly God Himself wants us to understand when he says we should not worship any other “god” but Him. We can find that in Exodus 34:14

        “For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: ”

        So there we have the command. So lets look at the exact meaning of that word “worship”.

        שׁחה

        shâchâh

        shaw-khaw’
        A primitive root; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): – bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

        I think we can all agree that the Catholic church certainly DOES “bow down”, “crouch”, “fall down”, “do obeisance”, “do reverence” ” stoop”, and of course, by definition “worship” Mary, and the images they have created to represent Mary.

      • Aerauxel

        Do you know that in hebrew, there is no such word as WORSHIP? :) Only BOW

        וַיָּ֧קָם אַבְרָהָ֛ם וַיִּשְׁתַּ֥חוּ לְעַם־ הָאָ֖רֶץ
        rose Abraham and bowed (shaw-khaw’) to the people of the land
        Genesis 23:7

        Did Abraham committed a SIN for BOWING? :)

        לְאַפָּ֥יו אַ֛רְצָה וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ שָׁלֹ֣שׁ פְּעָמִ֑ים
        As soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. He bowed(shaw-khaw’) three
        times, and they kissed each other, and wept with each other; David wept
        the more.
        1 Samuel 20:41

        Did they committed SIN by BOWING?

        biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7812.htm

        In Japan, Christians are BOWING as a sign of respect. Is it BAD, if I bow in a statue rather than a person, what is the difference? Am I worshiping any of them?

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Very good. And your argument might actually hold water were it not for the fact that the Catholic church have named Mary things like “co redemptrix”, or “Queen of heaven”.

        Perhaps you will even recognize this catholic song:

        “Daily, daily sing to Mary Sing, my soul, her praises due;

        All her feasts, her actions worship, With the heart’s devotion true.

        She is mighty to deliver; Call her, trust her lovingly;

        When the tempest rages round thee, She will calm the troubled sea.

        Gifts of heaven she has given, Noble Lady, to our race;

        She the Queen who decks her subject, With the light of God’s own grace.” (Baltimore Catechism No.1, 63)

        None of the people you mentioned bowed as to a god, or considered them to be as high as God. THAT blasphemous act IS done by those who have placed Mary as “co redemptrix”, or “Queen of heaven”.

      • Aerauxel

        None of the people you mentioned bowed as to a god, or considered them
        to be as high as God. THAT blasphemous act IS done by those who have
        placed Mary as “co redemptrix”, or “Queen of heaven”.
        – That is my point. BOWING is not forbidden, only worshiping to some god. No Catholic considered SOMEONE to be HIGHER THAN GOD.
        Where on this word, “WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY”, you don’t understand? Making her Co-Mediatrix(I guess this was the right term) doesn’t mean Mary can automatically go to the Father, the Catholic doctrine says, “all through Mary to Jesus, and all for Jesus through Mary”, Catholic know that only Jesus is the mediator to GOD. Please don’t talk stuff out of your ignorance in Catholic doctrine.
        Queen of heaven? Catholic’s view on Revelation’s “WOMAN” represents Mary ALSO, it can also be ISRAEL.

        Daily, daily sing to Mary Sing, my soul, her praises due;
        – What is the problem of that? Actually I am not familiar but still, we don’t think Mary as a REGULAR woman. She was higher among the saints.

        Again, the word worship was not limited in BOWING or PRAISING or ADORING. Worship originally, giving worthy, one thing is for sure, giving worthy to Saints and Martyrs isn’t same to Mary and Mary is not higher than GOD and we don’t gave Mary a worthiness higher than GOD.

        LOVE, if you love someone, are you going to marry him/her? You called that LOVE, so that someone is credible. So if you love your FATHER/MOTHER/SISTER/BROTHER, you LOVE them, are you going to marry one of them? Of course not, but you love them still you don’t marry family member.

        Same with GOD, why we will give highest form WORSHIP to someone that is not god? We give worthiness to someone or something important but we are too choice which is which.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Do you REALLY believe I am “ignorant of Catholic doctrine”? Or are you defending what you have chosen to believe.

        Do you then deny that catholic doctrine makes the following statements?:

        “She is called the holy child and she progressed in perfection.” Born sinless, the all-holy virgin progressed in sinless perfection.”

        “Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation…”

        “Being obedient she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.”

        “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One… May she welcome us as our mother at the hour of our passing to lead us to her son, Jesus, in paradise.”

        “From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of `Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs…”

        “From the Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary…”

        I think you might want to look into what your Church are ACTUALLY teaching.

      • princessginac

        Psalms 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth , sinful from the time my mother conceived me . We are all born sinners including Mary. Except Jesus he was the ONLY righteous Man who live on earth and will be forever. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

        John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

      • JuliePurple

        Religious traditions aside, don’t you just think it’s sad that anyone would think a baby was sinful? I mean really. What kind of twisted mentality would come up with that? I know, I know, you’re taught that in church. But personally, I find it really warped to think that. Really. Warped.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I trust you don’t understand what it means “to be born a sinner”. It does not mean that the baby is evil or bad or that it is unworthy of love. It simply means that it has inherited the sinful nature of mankind, and so is not in a state of pure perfection as is Christ. A lot of people find it hard to accept that their child is a sinner even after they grow, and prove their sinful nature by their actions. I guess a lot of the fault lies in certain “religious” groups who act as though they are somehow above sinners (even though they too are sinners). Every human being IS a sinner. Even the best of people who show great character and love. Even those who lay down their lives for others still fall short of the perfection of God. That is why it is such good news that Christ paid for our sinfulness. We can’t be good enough, but Christ IS good enough. Allowing Christ to give you the gift of HIS righteousness means that God doesn’t judge you by YOUR worthiness but by Christ’s.

      • JuliePurple

        I wouldn’t call it “sinful nature”, at all. I think it’s more that humans are a mixed bag, due to the variety of qualities necessary to evolve as a species. The “pure perfection” you refer to, do you mean a hypothetical ideal state, or are you saying that the person of the actual historical (as far as we know) Jesus embodied that state?
        It’s too bad that you think every human is a sinner. I guess you hang out with the wrong group of people.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        If I did not believe that every human was a sinner, then I would be calling God a liar. If YOU don’t believe in God, then you will not understand. If you DO believe in God and you think that humans are as pure and perfect as God, then I would love to hear your logic on how that can be.

      • JuliePurple

        1) If I believed the bible were historically accurate, I would call the god of book not only liar, but also petty, vain,
        hypocritical, and vindictive.
        2) Do not assume that your definition of god is the same as everybody else’s.
        3) “Pure and perfect” and sinless” are two different concepts.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        By your answer, you neither know God nor the bible. But you obviously harbor bitterness in your heart toward what you think you know. I hope the day you meet Him (and you WILL) that it will be as His child with love, and not as a condemned prisoner being judged to eternal hell. Of course it is YOUR choice which one you will be…but you WILL be one or the other.

      • JuliePurple

        None of that. I simply don’t believe in your particular set of myths. Take note of the first part of the first point, above: 1) If I believed the bible were historically accurate. You may safely infer from this that I do not believe that the bible is historically accurate.
        It seems you get a great deal of pleasure out of
        imagining dreadful consequences for people who disagree with you. Whatever floats your boat, dude.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Oh Julie, you really don’t know me. I get no pleasure from the knowledge that you or anyone else might end up in hell. As true as I believe in the one true God and Father of Jesus Christ, I would lay down my life to save yours.

      • JuliePurple

        Well, thank you for the sentiment, but as for laying down
        lives… it’s all very well to make the claim, but it doesn’t make sense. You don’t know me. For all you know, I might be terminally ill and wishing for release. Or I could be a criminal about to murder a dozen innocent people. It does sound nice to say what you did, though, and very impressive if you don’t think about it too much. This is not to belittle your statement, not at all. It is a very noble sentiment. But it might be good to have a bit more
        information before making the claim. Just saying.

        I had to shake my head at the “knowledge” (i.e., of hell) you claim. You really don’t know. You only know what you’ve been told by other people who don’t know, either. And making threats about what you don’t know about sounds to me like a toddler yelling “you’ll be sorry!” to his mother when she corrects him. To make the claim that you know someone will end up in hell (or wherever), knowing nothing of that person’s history, customs, practices, beliefs, or situation is really arrogant. Just like claiming to know all about what sorts of activities get an individual into a certain kind of afterlife is arrogant. Nobody knows that. It’s all speculation. It’s not surprising
        that humans would want some sort of idea about what comes after this life,
        though, so I can see why you like to believe what you do. It’s perfectly understandable.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I have no reason to believe that Jesus Christ ( who is recorded in history apart from scripture) was a liar. Nor is it logical to assume that the people who witnessed what He did were lying, when they were all killed for defending what they were so certain to be true. Neither is it logical to dismiss that Jesus was in fact who He claimed to be, when over 300 prophecies from over hundreds of years were all fulfilled from His birth to His death to His resurrection. Even details that He would have had no control over like the place of His birth, the time of His death, the fact that no bones would be broken in Him, the fact that He would be betrayed.
        Should the hundreds of witnesses who were willing to be thrown to the lions with their families because they were so sure of the facts, that were not an historical event but a present happening, be dismissed?
        Should we ignore the fact that the bible is the most attacked book in the world, yet time and time again it has proven it’s truths to be flawlessly accurate?
        If I believe that Jesus was not a liar, then I MUST accept HIS word that He is the only way to heaven. I must accept HIS word that hell exists, and all who do not accept His free gift of life will not enter heaven. He doesn’t ask for anything. He doesn’t tell you to kill for Him. He doesn’t expect you to make yourself into a holy joe, or be on your knees all day. He simply says that He has paid for your sins, believe this, and allow Him to be your payment, and you will be saved. But sadly that is too easy for most people. We feel as humans that WE have to accomplish or achieve or attain for ourselves. But what God requires, we cannot attain by ourselves.
        I said I would lay my life down for you, and I stand by it. I don’t have to know who you are or what sins you might commit. I have no right to judge any human. But every person was at one point, a little baby, harmless and innocent. When I see people do evil, I wonder what happened to that beautiful innocent baby between then and now to make them what they are. My heart breaks for the baby that they were.
        Jesus offers forgiveness that cleanses the worst of us, making us pure and clean again, with hope for eternity.
        I know where I am going when I die, so I will gladly give my life for any person to have the opportunity to be saved. It doesn’t matter who they are or what they have done.

      • JuliePurple

        The god I was referring to specifically as being a liar, misogynist, hypocrite, vindictive, and so forth, was god as depicted the Old Testament. As for Jesus, so little actual verifiable information exists that it is pointless to try to guess what his motivations might have been. Current scholarly opinion is quite varied on the authenticity of the Jesus stories, some going so far as to doubt that Jesus
        even existed.
        The bible having been attacked or not is irrelevant. All that proves is that someone did not like it. To say it is “flawlessly accurate” shows that you have not done any research in unprejudiced sources. It is a fact that the bible is not flawlessly accurate. From what I understand, most at least agree that the bible should not be understood to be factual in the sense that we mean today. The point there is that it’s almost impossible to determine how much of it is historical fact and how much is myth or legend. I didn’t make that up; you can research it yourself. So yeah, it’s pretty easy to regard magical claims about him as suspect, at best. Look, I get it that you believe what is in the bible, and that’s fine. Just don’t expect everybody else to have the same belief.
        To die for a belief only indicates how strongly you believe something, not whether that belief was justified.
        And lastly, totally ignorant of circumstances, you are willing to die for a stranger? I infer from that that you have nobody dependent upon you fur survival, because that should be your first responsibility. In any case, it is a very dramatic statement. But it doesn’t really prove anything.

      • JuliePurple

        Sorry for the double posting; I’m trying to delete the duplicate.

      • JuliePurple

        The god I was referring to specifically as being a liar, misogynist, hypocrite, vindictive, and so forth, was god as depicted the Old Testament. As for Jesus, so little actual verifiable information exists that it is pointless to try to guess what his motivations might have been. Current scholarly opinion is quite varied on the authenticity of the Jesus stories, some going so far as to doubt that Jesus even existed

        The bible having been attacked or not is irrelevant. All that proves is that someone did not like it. To say it is “flawlessly accurate” shows that you have not done any research in unprejudiced sources. It is a fact that the bible is not flawlessly accurate. From what I understand, most at least agree that the bible should not be seen to be factual in the sense that we mean today. The point is that it’s almost impossible to determine how much of it is historical fact and how much is myth or legend. I didn’t make that up; you can research it yourself. So yeah, it’s pretty easy to regard magical claims about him as suspect, at best. Look, I get it that you believe what is in the bible, and that’s fine. Just don’t expect everybody else to have the same belief.

        To die for a belief only indicates how strongly you believe something, not whether that belief was justified.
        And lastly, totally ignorant of circumstances, you are willing to die for a stranger? I infer from that that you have nobody dependent upon you fur survival, because that should be your first responsibility. In any case, it is a very dramatic statement. But it doesn’t really prove anything.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        I have done so much research on it that you wouldn’t believe me. I had always been a skeptic. I set out to prove the bible to be lies. I searched all the places I could to find evidence of it’s foolishness. But the inescapable fact is that time and time again it turns out to be right about things that we are only discovering now. If a logical person were to look at the scriptures without even accepting the concept of a God, they would have to ask “how could the writers possibly have known the things they knew about the universe, the planet, atoms, bacteria etc, not to mention the ridiculously accurate foretelling of future events?” ” The mathematical formula interwoven into the writings is far beyond what our computers are capable of today. THAT is worthy of looking into. THAT is evidence of something out of the ordinary.
        I DO believe it is the word of our very Creator.

        My first responsibility is to God. Those who are my dependents know that it is God in whom we really depend. He is our strength, our provider and our sustainer. They also know that I know where I am going when I die, so if laying down my life for a stranger would give that stranger an hour more of life to find faith in Christ and be saved from eternal suffering, it would be worth dying for them.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Should we believe in your myths?????????????

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Amen.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        When the god of this world has you blinded as Aerauxel , he did not see what you had written in your above post, to bad,
        He is lost .

      • b4bigbang

        JimB, perhaps the following will help you understand. Since Jesus is God you can read the Romans passage thusly: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of Jesus. Since Jesus is God but Mary isn’t then the logic is sound; I’m sorry, but yes, Mary wasn’t sinless.

      • JimB

        No where is ti written that we have but one ADVOCATE. Venerating, praying for intervention, is not the same as praying TO as in worship. Nowhere does the Catholic CHurch teach anyone but GOd should be worshiped.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        Well JimB, the word ADVOCATE means MEDIATOR. According to GOD’S WORD, there is only ONE Advocate/mediator, and that is Jesus Christ 1Timothy 2:5.

        On the 7th of May 1997, Pope John Paul II, having noted the words spoken by Jesus to John from the Cross, “Woman behold thy son.’ and ‘ Behold thy mother”, stated “It is possible to understand the authentic meaning of MARIAN WORSHIP in the ecclesial community.” He didn’t doubt that Mary is worshiped in the Catholic church.

      • JimB

        Mary is Venerated not worshiped. There IS a difference.
        ADVOCATE-one that defends or maintains a cause or proposal. MEDIATOR-One that mediates, especially one that reconciles differences between disputants. AND your word association is a bit off.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        It’s the Pope who said “Worshiped”, not me. Take it up with the leader of YOUR religion.
        ad·vo·cate [v. ad-vuh-keyt; n. ad-vuh-kit, -keyt]
        verb (used with object), ad·vo·cat·ed, ad·vo·cat·ing.
        1.
        to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly: He advocated highersalaries for teachers.
        noun
        2.
        a person who speaks or writes in support or defense of a person, cause, etc. (usually followed by of ): an advocate of peace.
        3.
        a person who pleads for or in behalf of another; intercessor.
        4.
        a person who pleads the cause of another in a court of law.

        Then lets look at the ACTUAL WORD in the scripture:
        μεσίτης
        mesitēs
        mes-ee’-tace
        From G3319; a go between, that is, (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor): – mediator.

        I think we all know that the Catholic church are trying to make Mary the mediator/advocate. They have already claimed she is “Co-redeemer” with Christ. Or do you deny that too?

      • princessginac

        Mary is dead and is dust ! waiting on the ” return of Jesus Christ:” no way is she defending or maintaining a cause or proposal.

        Revelation 16:14-For the sprits of the devils, working miracles , (which) go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of them battle of the great day of God Almighty .

        Ecclesiastes 9:5 -For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing. neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

      • princessginac

        Jesus is the One representing us in Heaven “. No other one is representing us but him.. Then again we have the oppose one Satan ” that prosecutes us . But I am Glad My Jesus represents me , as my attorney . is fighting my case as we speak. Who else will be appealing our case in Heaven? Not Mary , or my decease mother or brothers. Yes many catholics and other religious , think their love ones are meditators for them between God and them.

      • Gary Amadeus Hunt

        True, and very sad. They will accept everything but the simple truth of Jesus Christ as our Savior ALONE. Well said Princessginac

      • princessginac

        Have you not read the Bible ? For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 I repeat myself it is not clear who IS MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD” and men , the man Christ Jesus. Wake up before its too late . Jesus is coming SOON !! Don’t be mislead by faults teachings.

      • JuliePurple

        Pretty cute! Were the puns intentional?

      • princessginac

        Bible says we have but one advocate “Jesus” read my posts above …
        Praying is communicating with God” in prayer. We do worship God” too with songs hymns singing , sermons . Focusing on God” giving ones full attention to him .

      • princessginac

        No one or thing ( idols ) is the Mediator or can advocate to God” but “Jesus” only. Where in the Bible does it say Mary is the advisor or mediator to God”? 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; It’s clear !!!!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        And God, not me, said don’t have any. graven images, statues.

      • princessginac

        I don’t think they mean to insult her . But to admired her for being the mother of God” the man Jesus Christ” . And took it one step farther to worship her and make her a Goddess of Heaven , advocator, mediator . And even say she is the Mother of God”. She is the Mother of Jesus ” not God” if it was so then she would be God”. God has no mother he was and is the Alpa and the Omega.

      • princessginac

        First because Mary was JEWISH, she would NEVER have anything to do with Idols, and to adored her as an Idol? Would be out of contend to her belief she , was never into idolatry (which God” himself says he detest . She kept the Sabbath , and honored her Jewish traditration as her parents taught her. Exodus 20:1-15

        And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

        And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

        Romans 1:25

        Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

        1 Corinthians 10:20-21

        No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

        Exodus 20:5

        You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

        Matthew 4:8-10

        Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

        Leviticus 26:1

        “You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God.

        HelpfulNot Helpful

        John 4:23

        But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

    • princessginac

      Yes , Mary will be insulted the way the Catholics, make her to be Queen of heaven etc etc. . She was a devoted Jewish Girl who loved God”. She her self had nothing to do with idols. And to adore her as one !!

  • Joel

    This was entertaining to read. I continually educate my myself of various religions around the world, their pasts, and their presents, even as an agnostic atheist.

    I knew there was a difference of opinion between Catholics and Protestants, I just didn’t know the rift was so wide, and on quite a number if issues. Very interesting.

  • Despeville

    Mary of in the Word of God is completely different from Roman Catholic “Mary”. This few times only NT mentioned Mary recognized her own sin and therefore her need of Savior:

    ““My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has begun to rejoice in God MY SAVIOR”.

    ~ Luke 1:46-47

    Sapere aude…

    • JimB

      Tunnel vision dude

    • JimB

      HE was her savior in the fact that she was born without sin.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        she was conceived in sin

      • JimB

        You talk out of your @$$hole.. Satan loves idiots like you to deminish the sacred birth of Jesus. BTW what corner is you church on

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Actually when I lay hands on the sick and they recover, or I cast out demons, Satan is very mad at me! When I try to correct False dogma He hates me. J,,,,B, Mary was conceived in sin just like everybody else in the world since Adam. But in the eyes of the dogma makers of the ROMAN Catholic Church, for Jesus to be born sinless, so Mary had to be sinless.
        J,,,,B, a doctrine that important, would sure be in the Bible.,, But guess what, it isn’t.
        I see The Lord has not cleaned up your mouth yet,,, But you have to be born again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • JimB

        YOUR CONCLUSIONS ARE IPSO FACTO,,,, My Mouth portrays the disgust of people like you. Your claim to being a healing and exorcist, is a clrea indicator that your pride has gotten the best of you and therefore you maintain an open door for Satan. I am not impressed by your claims, nor do they give you any more “authoritative: speech… We all have Gifts. You apparently think yours makes you special and more knowing. Hail Mary, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee. BLESSED are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus..

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Your mouth portrays what is in your spirit, filth, mine was the same way until Jesus came into my life 47 years ago. I hate to say it but, preaching , casting out demons and healing the sick was the main signs that Jesus did to prove who He was,, In Jn 14:12 Jesus said what He did we, (not Church leadership), would do also , and greater things!
        JimB Do you preach, (witness to people about Jesus), Do you cast out demons, Do you lay hands on the sick, and they are healed , Instantly as those healed by Jesus were.
        I cast out demons lay hands on the sick, Not because I am proud, But because my Lord and Savior told me to. Read Mk 16 : 15- 18 and tell me kind of signs follow a true believer!
        JimB, Also, try reading the Bible, New Testament beginning in Acts all the way through Revelations, first 3 chapters And tell me If the Roman Catholic Church resembles the New Testament Church!

      • JimB

        You are FULL of Pride. AS a matter of fact I have been called to heal people spiritually and physically. Not that its any of your business, but just so do you understand you are no more special than the homeless man sleeping under a bridge. There is boundless spiritual power in asking the BLESSED Mother to interceded, In fact healings have taken place numerous times due to Her intercession. This type evil you give residence to is easily recognizable to those of us who know the Truth. BYW, Very few people know about the gift os the Holy Spirit that I have been given. There is no need to ever mention them. I dont expect a snake oil salesman to understand.

        Hail Mary, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee. BLESSED are thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus..

      • Pastor Dwayne

        WOW, how many times do you repeat, Hail Mary full of grace at one session of prayer. You are right, However I go under the bridges and talk to the homeless men, AND you., I have given away car, paid for a homeless drunk to ride a bus from Witchita KS to california , after God had healed him of drunkeness given money to the poor.
        Beware Pride goeth before the fall. You young man are full of it!!
        When you pray for the sick , how soon are they healed , I’m talking about brain cysts, cancer and so on!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        JimB, You do know,,, all I have heard from you is the blessed holy mother , blessed holy mother, blessed holy mother,,,, NOT one word from you of,”"”"”"”"”"”"” JESUS”"”"”"”"”"” !! BUT their is a reason why you don’t.
        I did not come on this site to bash Catholics, one of your site came to the site that I visit, so I went to his & your site.
        Please Jim , Get Born from Above!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Jim,,,, I came on this site because one of your site came to the site I visit, WOW, From the posts i have read here,,,,,,, JimB please get,,, born again, born from above, saved,,,, all these terms mean,,, a personal relationship with Jesus, meaning,, God creates a New spirit within you.

        All I have heard from you is,,,, hail blessed mother, hail blessed mother, hail blessed mother,,,, not one word about JESUS, which means pure and simple , you don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus, you are just full of Catholic dogma!!

        Several posts on here, claim,, they were Catholic until they read the Bible and saw the Catholic error, and left the RCC , got born again, by going to a Church that taught the Gospel,,,,Jim get born again, please , Jim,,, every Catholic I know that became a true Christian, by getting born again, left the RCC, and started going to a church that taught the true Gospel.

        Good day and have a great life.

      • pax2u

        Pastor, what is the denomination of your Church?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I don’t belong to any denomination but the church does what all churches today should resemble, the New Testament church! Todays church, denomination, that is close to resembling the New Testament church is,and, only a few of those is the Pentecostal Denomination, mind you, I said only a few of those.

        You know the song named, ”The Lighthouse”", A 6-9 year old boy wrote it under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit! One 1. The boy had never seen a light house, so he did not have a clue what a light house is!! Two 2. in the song he wrote , “” The big ships don’t sail this way any more , The, way, being Jesus is the Lighthouse and His way of Salvation! The BIG SHIPS, ( Big Denominatios) Don’t go the WAY of Jesus any more, In other words , The big denominations by and large do not get Born Again !!!

      • pax2u

        did you attend a seminary?

        I think that the phrase is leaving in “droves”

      • Pastor Dwayne

        oooops!!!!

      • pax2u

        did you attend a seminary?

      • pax2u

        I understand if you prefer not to answer

        I have read that there are over 700 Pentecostal denominations, 240 are classified as part of Wesleyan, Holiness, or Methodistic Pentecostalism and 80 Pentecostal denominations that are classified as Jesus’ Name or Oneness Pentecostalism (often self identifying as “Apostolic Pentecostals”). My understanding is that the Oneness reject the doctrine of the Trinity.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I have been to Bible college , but would never go to a seminary, most if not all of the leadership of reformation seminarys , including Roman CC are not born again, let alone Baptised with the Holy Ghost

      • pax2u

        does your Pentecostal Church teach the doctrine of the Trinity?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        DEUT. 6:4 The Lord our God is ONE Lord!!!

      • pax2u

        Matt 28

        19″Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

        So you deny the Trinity

      • Pastor Dwayne

        No pax, I was having fun with you, Deut. 6:4 ONE God,,, when you look up the meaning of the word ONE , when you study it out, it means a compound unity,, meaning many making one, in our case that would be three

      • pax2u

        I know that there are many oneness Pentecostals, do you teach the rapture? pre. mid, post or none of the above

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Actually I preach The Rapture happening during the beginning of sorrows.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I preach the Rapture happening during the time of sorrows.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        And the oneness group would then ask you what is the of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, they would say it is Jesus , Because other verse say they baptised in the name of Jesus, Not realizing that is the name of Jesus that gives us authority to Baptise, cast out demons lay hands on the sick and they are healed instantly

      • JuliePurple

        No, I think he did mean “groves”; they’re going to Druid services. :-)

      • pax2u

        or maybe they are not going any where, they are “rooted” in their faith,

      • JuliePurple

        Hee hee! Yes, and they belong to a branch of the congregation that stems from the ones who wanted to leaf the old one behind. :-D

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Mary Interceed for you???? you have believed to much dogma, and false tradition!

  • LOVE

    Pastor Dwayne = PRIDE the greatest SIN. Love Christ, Love thy neighbor…LOVE the only thing that can conquer HATE.

    • Pastor Dwayne

      There is no PRIDE in the truth, but using man’s traditions to take away from the truth, is pride

    • Pastor Dwayne

      To love Christ , love thy neighbor, ,,,,,, to do that God’s way you have to be born again!

  • susan

    I can see you spend too much time bashing on catholics or trying to prove something you just can’t. Jesus says:”If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.…The first commandment sums up all the commandments, Love the the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Don’t worry about Catholics, it will never be between you and Catholics, it will be between you and God. I have no interest debating with you, but i will pray for you. My responses are over. Praise and Glory to God whom I Love and adore. To God be the glory, great things He hath done, So loved He the world that He gave us His Son, Who yielded His life our redemption to win, And opened the life-gate that all may go in.

    Have a blessed day!

    • Pastor Dwayne

      So don’t bring the truth on this site , and let 100s of thousands go to hell!

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Not bashing, just trying to get some Catholics born again, without it you won’t see Heaven

  • faith13

    with all due respect sir… about a lot of the things you said..1Corinthians 4:6 says “Do not go beyond what is written..” so you cant just assume things and make up stuff when it comes to biblical reference just cause it pleases the ears of the world..or just cause it seems to be right! read Galatians 1:6-10. one of the things mentioned in it is “even if an angel from heaven itself comes and preaches to you something different from what has been written, may he be condemned to hell!” so how about we just stick to what the scriptures say and not mess with it.!? that being said sir…i think you’ve got some thinking to do…of all the practices and the traditions etc….how much of it is actually biblical…?? i ain’t criticizing or anything of that sort….but just requesting you to look it up please…

    • Aerauxel

      Remember the 2 Peter about Private Interpretation my friend…

      1Corinthians, the ‘WHAT IS WRITTEN’ doesn’t mean NT because the NT isn’t finish and still under going process…
      Don’t fall out of context because the Life of Mary wasn’t EXPLICITLY discussed in the Bible.

      I believe exalting Mary won’t make us sinners, right?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The word, Exalting, to you is probably a better word than Worship, cause that would be wrong to worship Mary, right?
        Ex 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images, ( statue of Mary) or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; vs 5. Thou shalt not BOW DOWN THYSELF to them , nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity, ( yes it is a sin ) of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation of them that hate me. OH, OH, these 2 verses say if you bow down to the statue, graven image, of Mary , you hate God!!! MY, MY!! And don’t say it does not happen , you see , I have visited, “Roman”, Catholic Churches and each time every body that walked past Mary’s statue they stopped and bowed the heads, or bowed from their waist downward!!! Now, one time a woman in her bowing down, got all the way down on her knees and was crying with her tears falling on the graven image of Mary, and was wiping her tears off of Mary’s feet. SIN, SIN , SIN

      • Aerauxel

        Judging ones feelings is bad, but it is more BAD or I refer more sinful if you use the Holy Bible in a manner to put down others even though you are out of the context.
        How about opening up of Ex 25?
        Isn’t contradict?
        God didn’t forbid religious usage of statues, right?

        I perfect your intellectual level Pastor so I will ask you once again?
        What is the definition of IDOL in the bible?
        1.They don’t exist or inventions (1 Cor 8:4/Wisdom 14:12-13)
        2. Pushing us away to God (Jer 2:5)
        3. They are GOD itself (Exodus 20:3)

        If I am wrong what’s yours?
        You have visited our Church, is it to criticize the building? or to Experience the Holy Eucharist?

        Bowing? I do Karate, did I commit SIN!?
        Bow in the bible is means worshiping.
        But bowing can also be respect.

        We know who to worship, our hearts know who to worship. And you can’t change that and make us turn to worship base on what you’re thinking.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        No you did not commit sin in bowing in Karate, but when you bow to a statue of Mary is sin . Coarse it always helps to be Born Again , then you realize it is all about , JESUS, JESUS, you pray to Jesus and Him only. NEVER, NEVER to Mary or any other , Quote , unquote saint

      • Aerauxel

        You haven’t answer my questions above Pastor :)
        Why Pastor, if ever you will be placed in my shoe and you will bow, will you worship Mama Mary in your heart?

        My apology Pastor, but I guess you miss interpret us. We are prayers for Mary, same as we ask for our fellow Christians. We don’t pray for Mary, we ask for intercession…

        I am no good in all the verses in the bible, but I do believe you know it well. I know you know where you can find in the bible what I am talking about :)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Let me put it this way ,,, when you hold something in your life above Jesus ,, Such as bowing down to mary , you have her as an IDOL.
        “” We don’t pray FOR Mary “”, I said pray to mary, You say “” we ask intercession, “” You pray, “” Holy Mary mother of God , Pray for us sinners now,”"
        ONE,,,, when you are Born Again you are no longer a, SINNER , When we do sin , the Word says we have an advocate between us and God , The Man Jesus Christ. Again we NEVER, NEVER EVER pray to Mary or anyone, except Jesus Christ, When you do pray to Mary , or anyone besides Jesus, JUST proves one point, you do not , IN YOUR HEARTS KNOW JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!! You have a head knowledge of Jesus as Lord and savior , But not in your hearts.
        You see , I used to have a head knowledge that Jesus was my Lord and Savior, but i did not realize I was going to hell until I was born Again at age 27.

      • Aerauxel

        You haven’t place yourself on my shoe.. You just say ‘let me put it this way’… Well, that’s your opinion, but does it support the bible? If I bow down to someones images because I am sad or feel crying, does it means WORSHIPING to you. Don’t say that ‘IF IT WASN’T MARY, IT IS NOT IDOLING’ because we will laugh at you :P
        Is my definition of IDOL, correct? I just stated and you just skip it :D

        We ask for intercession, “Pray for us sinners now”, it is like, ‘Pastor, Pastor, please pray for me…’, we simple ask prayers to Mary because it is promoted in the Bible that we can ask prayers to one another. Am I right Pastor?

        I bit you didn’t do bad things to somebody if you claim you’re not a SINNER ^^ I am not an idiot believing that you’re not a sinner. Well if you’re not a sinner, you are a SAINT!!! May the Lord Bless you and take you with Him and the other Saints in heaven :)

        Pastor please, Faith Alone won’t save you… You need much work and faith in order to received grace for your salvation… Unless you remove it in YOUR bible…

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You have removed everything from your Bible, and live from and in your tradition of fables
        NOW have a good time, good day

      • Aerauxel

        I beg to disagree hahaha
        “You see, I have been in your shoe I was a lost going to Hell sinner”
        – You mean you’re guilty of worshiping a STATUE? hahaha That’s wrong Pastor, I myself and the others don’t WORSHIP statue ^^

        “you must be Born Again” or “Except a man be born again”?
        Pastor you are making fun of the bible… Is this what you are preaching? Pastor, you judge us that we removed everything in the Bible, and you? What did you do? You TAMPERED the bible for your own advantage just like other denomination, be a shame of yourself, is that what you called FAITH, tampering and making the WORD of GOD a FALSE ONE?. Your bible was from the Heart of the Catholic Church but you miss interpreted it. Unless you have problem using ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I don’t misinterpet the bible but I am growing in the Lord day by day, I just read to a Roman Catholic the Bible is there last source of informantion , after they go through their Sacred Traditions ,,,,, Again compare your sacred traditions with the Bible to see if they are right !!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You don’t ask a person that has passed from this life to the next to pray for you. You are right about coming to me to pray for you. But the first thing I would do is talk with you and find out if you are Born Again , or a sinner, If you are a sinner I would try to convince you to get Born Again Jn 3:3 “” you must be Born Again , or you won’t enter the Kingdom Of God”"”!

      • susan

        Moses was dead and buried. How could he talk to Jesus about future events on earth?In life he [Elisha] performed wonders, and after death, marvelous deeds (Sir 48:14). “Elisha died and was buried. At the time, bands of Moabites used to raid the land each year. Once some people were burying a man, when suddenly they
        spied such a raiding band. So they cast the dead man into the grave of Elisha, and everyone went off. But when the man came in contact with the bones of Elisha, he came back to life and rose to his feet” (Kings
        13:20-21).The saints are not dead but alive in the presence of their Lord Jesus and part of the praying Mystical Body of Christ. Where does the Bible say saints are dead? In 1 Peter 3, water is mentioned twice, paralleling baptism with the flood, where eight were “saved through water,” and noting that “baptism now saves you” by the power of Christ rather than by the physical action of water “removing . . . dirt from the body.”
        The anti-baptismal regeneration position is indefensible. It has no biblical basis whatsoever. So the answer to the question, “Are Catholics born again?” is yes! Since all Catholics have been baptized, all Catholics have been born again. Catholics should ask , “Are you born again—the way the Bible understands that concept?” If the Evangelical has not been properly water baptized, he has not been born again “the Bible way,” regardless of what he may think.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The Bible understands the concept of getting born again as Peter in Acts 2:38 states in response to the question in vs 37. Peter said , Repent, (meaning get born again), then get baptised in water, ( symbalic of the death, burial, and resurrection ) ( death,, equals getting born again, our old man is put to death, thus bringing, the new life of being born again our sins being washed away by the blood of Jesus ) ( burial ,, complete immersion of our body in water, washing our sins away, symbalising our sins being washed away by the blood of Jesus), ( resurrection, coming up out of the water, into new life , symbalising our new life at the born again experience )
        So that brings some big questions to the catholic version of Born Again, The Bible teaches you must be old enough to know you are a sinner , it teaches the Holy Ghost convicts us of our sin , Acts 2:37 says the men were pricked in their hearts, ( the Holy Ghost convicting of sin ) ! The Bible teaches that water Baptism is complete immersion of the body.
        So using your words, all catholics were baptised in water, therefore they are all born again….SSOOOO catholics are not baptised in water, they are sprinkled with water, and all if not most were babies when sprinkled with water , and not old enough to have knowledge of their sinful nature, or have knowledge of the holy Ghost convicting of sin. The Jews in their bar mitzvah use the age of 13 years old for the age of accountability , but only Gold knows each persons age of accountability.
        Thus, using your own words , and now know that all catholics are not born again, where are all catholics going , heaven or hell???

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You see, I have been in your shoe I was a lost going to Hell sinner , But at age 27 november 6th 10:00 PM, I was born Again By the Holy Ghost

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Do you mean this November the 6th?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        1967, so in all likely hood I’ve been at this a whole lot longer than you.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The Bible does in fact say we (living Christian can intercede for one another !!! It is not promoted in the bible to have Mary pray for us , However your Sacred Traditions probabally do.
        a Sinner ,lost and unsaved will do bad things to somebody. but after getting Born Again you don’t do bad things.
        Faith Alone ,,,, Godly works only come after becoming a Christian, read the bible

      • Samuel Gosali

        Pastor Dwayne i can only said this to you whether you want to listen or not just consider it ok. think then answer pray is not same as worship in catholic context. some christian only know about Jesus they don’t go beyond it feels like christian never do a lot of research on certain things while catholic going base on experience, also i think christian overthink on certain things like for example the sign of cross is a way or worship to god which actually not. My christian teacher ever found a study in the old testimony about it cross sign for all of us catholic only an opening prayer. there’s no such thing as only one truth there must be a lot of things happen but whether to believe it or not is up to yourself, I also know that Jesus said a word of there’s no pray can go to Father(God) without through Me.

        Note: catholic believe and worship Jesus but we never worship Virgin mary, actually we rather talked with her since we believe in past she shows herself in a lot of place as proof Bernadette from lourdes (don’t think cause of some medicine and drugs thing). why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye beam that is in thine own eye (luke 7:41-42). (sometimes i Pray for those who overly think about how they don’t realize that they are the Pharisees of this time) (and knowing this i can only sad, cry, feel pity, cause they always think they’re right, people who don’t follow their religion will go straightly to hell) ( do you know judge is also a sin if you think yourself now can go to heaven with what you doing) (I lost words) (Are you happy now seeing one person crying since you nvr try to feel the empathy of anyone) (i don’t care hahaha such a trickster joke) (if U nvr done any sin why can u still make others feel hurt isn’t that sin?) (love your god with all your soul and your mind and second that is equally important to the first law is love your neighbor as you love yourself) (love in here doesn’t mean own but just you care them)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The catholic church sure teaches you a lot of lies , to get you to believe you are not worshipping mary when you Bow down to her statue. In reality the Roman Catholic Curch, ” “RCC” is a 100% fleshly church,, Ex. 20:3-6. Thou shalt not BOW

      • USAF1956

        Who bows to a statue in the Roman Catholic Church ? The only bow (actually genuflecting) is to the tabernacle where consecrated hosts left from communion are kept. We believe Jesus is present in the host upon consecration (i.e. “This is my Body”). Also if you want to quote the Old Testament’s laws you need to be careful, Jesus gave us a new covenant that changed a lot of them. Do you eat pork? Do you dole out Eye for Eye justice?, etc.

        There is so much disinformation out there.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        When I see , women in particular, on their knees in front of the statue of Mary, shedding tears on the feet of the statue of Mary, and wiping them off with their hair, THAT is worshiping a statue of Mary.
        “”disinformation out their”"”,,,,,,Try not to read all the disinformation out there and STICK to the Word of God for all your, “”information.”"!!!!

      • USAF1956

        And who decided what gospels were part of the “Word of God”? P.S. It wasn’t your church. There are other “gospels” that aren’t part of the New Testament. And I guess you know there are 7 more books in our Bible. Martin Luther had them removed to undermine the Church authority and to remove scripture that supported Catholic beliefs he disagreed with. Isn’t that special??

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I have a Bible called the, Aramaic Peshitta, Which was the first writings of the Apostles, which was written in Aramaic, the language they, Jesus, and all of Israel spoke in at that time! the Peshitta does not have your 7 books in it . So, apparently your 7 books were added at a later time, perhaps when the latin vulgate was writin!
        ,,,,, Show me in your seven books , (book, chapter and verse ) we are to worship Mary, purgatory , trust in dead saints to protect us.

      • USAF1956

        The Aramaic Peshitta is generally accepted as translated from Hebrew, then Greek, then Aramaic (a different dialect than Jesus’s area). It is also generally accepted that the Peshitta bible came after and therefore newer and not complete.
        I don’t worship Mary, I ask her to pray for me and honor her. I do the same with saints. I bet you have people ask you all the time to pray for them. You are just an earthly sinner, why shouldn’t I ask a known spirit that is with God ? As for purgatory, well that’s church tradition; those that aren’t pure enough for heaven are “cleansed” there. No it is not spelled out in the New Testament per se. I guess you can show me the rapture in the bible.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        true to a point,,,, there was a version translated from Greek to Aramaic,,,, however,,, that version of Aramaic was not the original Peshitta version . When the disciples did as Jesus commanded to them to go to the lost tribes of Israel , they went north of Israel then to the east. The original gospels written were to them who spoke in the Aramaic language , which was also spoken in Israel at that time. So, we see that the Aramaic Peshitta was written well before all other versions..
        A true Christian KNOWS they don’t ask Mary to pray for them. They know they can go directly to Jesus!
        That church of the East was larger than the Catholic church until the year 1600

      • USAF1956

        Why do you think Catholics don’t pray to God directly? We ask Mary and the saints to join us in prayer. Don’t your parishners every ask you to do that? Are you saying you are better than Mary? If you believe in the bible, they you know that Mary and the saints aren’t dead (their spirit is with Christ), so why can’t we ask them to pray with/for us.
        I don’t know why you ad the Eastern Orthodox religion in, they have similar beliefs with the exception of papal primacy and purgatory. There is great dialog going on to once again unify those churches. Anyway what is your interest in the Great Schism of 1054? Eastern Orthodox have even more icons than most modern Roman Catholic do.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        When you are Born Again according as the scripture states , you become a new “Bara” creation in God , and you receive a complete new nature, wherein you know that you have a personal relationship with Jesus. And with this personal relationship with Jesus, you know that you know, you only pray to God! First John 2:1 says with this personal relationship with Jesus , we don’t SIN, BUT if we do sin, we have an advocate between the Father and us the man Jesus Christ! If you don’t have a personal relationship , you may tend to ask spirits to pray for you!!
        I have heard Roman catholics pray, hey oh Mary mother of God Pray for us sinners I don’t as you say , hear them praying —–mother of God pray “”with me for my sins”".
        If you are a true Christian, you are not known as a sinner, only none believers are classed as SINNERS, as the majority of the Roman Catholics are classed. AS I have said before, ALL Roman catholics that get truly Born Again , their new nature, “their, personal relationship with Jesus Christ “” says get out of the RCC it is false!
        The Bible declares that if anyone in the need of prayer is to look up an Elder to pray for them. Yes I pray for anyone who needs prayer!
        Saints are living Christians, correct me if I am wrong , the RCC digs up a body of so and so and declare them a saint. You are living another dead tradition!!

      • USAF1956

        I will pray for you brother, you do not have the Christ like love of your fellow children of God in your heart (even for other Christians), yet you proclaim to be sinless. You also claim infallible command of the bible true message, that’s amazing. I see your mind had good intentions though, maybe if you pray you might come to understand and tolerate others point of views. It’s your soul though.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        “”You will pray for me”" Xcuss me the Bible says a Christian is not to sin, I never claimed to be sinless, as Mary never claimed to be sinless , Scripture says if we do sin we have an advocate, the man Jesus Christ. I challenge you to read and study the New Testament and don’t rely on Sacre Traditions

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I’m not talking about the eastern orthodox church , I’m talking about the church established to the north of Israel then 100s of miles to the east . and is only called The Church of The East. The reason I mentioned the Church of The East, was to bring the fact that God’s Catholic Church was in existence well before the Roman Catholic Church.
        So, only guessing since your church has been taught the the RCC is the one true church, and if you ever leave it, you will go to hell! I might be wrong , as I said I’m guessing

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Catholics do indeed put God the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit above Mary & all the other Saints.

        We reserve worship for the Holy Trinity & the Trinity alone, we venerate the Saints of which Mary is the highest. Veneration being a different creature than worship – more like very high respect. But I’m probably just repeating stuff you’ve probably already been told before in this very thread. If so, sorry for the duplication – wouldn’t want to make the thread boring, that’s the surest way to dry it up.

        Since you mentioned the age you were Born Again as 27 years, can I ask how long ago were you Born Again? What was it like? What did you do? Was there someone else with you who helped you – “see the light” if that’s a correct term? Might I inquire what your faith was prior to your conversion to what you are now – if you had a faith?

        Also if you don’t mind, what’s your denomination? Or if this is a problematic question, what tradition do your beliefs hew to the closest – I’d say Pentecostal? More specifically Jehovah’s Witness? Do you believe in a literalist interpretation of the bible or allegorical or some mix of the two?

        Since we’ve been talking & answering so many of your posts I just want to learn more about where you come from (and your particular faith) & this would be most useful in that). Make this more of a 2 way street as it were – don’t worry, I know practically nothing at all about Protestant denominations (I just displayed practically all I do know & that’s just to tell the barest differences between the sects) so I’m not aiming to shoot ya down or attack your beliefs or anything if that would make you afraid to answer.

        I’ve seen all the arguments & difficulties some Protestants have with Catholicism presented here so much it doesn’t have any effect but curiosity about the speaker. This just teaches me something about a belief system I know practically nothing about & I’ll stick around so long as I’m having an interesting conversation.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I missed that question of yours , What is my denomination??
        the answer being,, The same church as was in the new testament ,, Pentecostal !! Now a question for you ,, Did you speak in tongues when you received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost , Just a question . But I know you didn’t, because you have to be born again first!

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Heh, you got me there! I was baptized as an infant so I don’t believe I said anything at all, least not anything intelligible :)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You were sprinkled with water as an infant,,, water baptism is complete immersion of the body! water baptism represents the death , burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with being born again, or renewed. Peter in response to a question in acts 2:37, after men were pricked in their hearts of being sinners,by the convicting power of the Holy Ghost, they asked Peter , what must we do. Peter in vs 38 said repent (in other words , confess your sins to Jesus, and him only , and you are born again), after repenting Peter said Be baptised in water. ssooo NO infant can know the difference between right and wrong , a person must be at the age of accountability, which only God knows each person’s age of accountability! I was sprinkled with water at the age of 13, and was told my name was written in the Lambs book of life. But I was not born again until I was age 27, and I got baptised again.
        You, in your post are trying to relate water baptism , with the baptism in the Holy Ghost, which is two separate baptisms

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Oh no, I got it – the spiritual adult baptism you speak of and infant water baptism are 2 very different things in all sorts of ways, I get it. I’m curious b/c it sounds like you had a very profound spiritual experience @ age 27 with baptism by spirit, I’m just wondering what’s that like as I haven’t experienced that myself. It sounds like it’s pretty intense – life altering, you said. Feeling the Holy Ghost in your very own body sounds quite amazing & appealing – you’ve had this unique, unusual experience that I’m guessing relatively few people have had, I’m wanting to hear whatever you feel like saying about it & I thank you for what you have already generously shared, thank you.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost about 3.5-4 months after I was Born Again, with evidence of speaking in tongues.
        All the churches of the New Testament had the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues Sounds like instead of living your life on the traditions of the Catholic Fathers( I hate saying Father because the word says don’t call any religious person a Father)Please leave all the traditions that can’t be proven by God’s Word the Bible, and begin to read and study the Bible all by yourself, you might be amazed!

      • Aerauxel

        Pastor pastor. You haven’t answer my post….
        I will repost it for you

        You haven’t answered my questions…
        What’s the difference between bowing to someone and bowing to a statue?
        So what is the problem when you bow down holding the bible?

        Paul included idol in Gal 5 because the controversy surrounding
        Gentile Christians and Mosaic Law. It doesn’t pin point Catholic.
        Idolatry is condemn not just worshiping a FALSE god but also replacing
        God in His right place.

        If you told us that I never sinned bowing to someone,
        what’s the
        difference between bowing to someone and bowing to a statue? And what is
        the problem when you bow down holding the bible and worshiping the
        bible?

        The bible clearly stated that, idols are:
        1.They don’t exist or inventions (1 Cor 8:4/Wisdom 14:12-13)
        2. Pushing us away to God (Jer 2:5)
        3. They are GOD itself (Exodus 20:3)

        Which we do to Mary isn’t idolatry or worshiping but honoring. Mary
        isn’t invention, we ask for intercession and we don’t make her as god.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        When I gave you the true definition of Idolatry I gave you the answer to all your questions.
        In your #2 above you state idols push you away to God (Jer2:5 ) ,,, Jer 2:5 says nothing about idolatry, even though it is talking about Israel, it is also describing the catholic church, and any church that is walking contrary to the Word Of God.
        You say above , “”"Gentile Christians and Mosaic law, it does not pinpoint catholic”"”" Do you not know?? you just separated the catholic church from God’s TRUE church of Gentile and Jewish believers !!! The TRUE church of God did not walk about swinging smoking lanterns, and doing religious rituals,,,,,,,,,The true church preached the Word of God . Rom 10:17 Faith cometh by hearing , and hearing by the Word of God,,,, not smoking lanterns and crazy rituals..
        Ex 20:3 does not say that Idols are GOD itself.

      • Aerauxel

        Jeremiah 2:5
        Thus says the Lord:
        What wrong did your ancestors find in me
        that they went far from me,
        and went after worthless things, and became worthless themselves?
        – WORTHLESS THINGS? Nothing about Idolatry? Are you misleading the readers here Pastor?

        Ex 20:3
        – Thou shall not have OTHER GODS besides ME, who is that OTHER GODS Pastor? I hope you are not included there in POISING your people.

        Do you not know?? you just separated the catholic church from God’s TRUE church of Gentile and Jewish believers
        – Who fall out of the real church of God? Who are now accusing the real church of God?
        I will ask you this, if I am not mistaken, you’re a BORN AGAIN, right?
        If Billy Graham is your founder (if not, give me FACTUAL EVIDENCE who is), Who is the founder of Catholic Church?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        “”Who is that OTHER GODS, Pastor”"
        We are not to have other Idols, instead of God
        Aerauxel believe me when I say your car can be an Idol, if you have to wash and polish it every day, or even once a week.
        (Billy Graham ), who is my founder, One day while sitting on a sunday morning at Catle Rock dragway , 20 miles south of Denver Colorado, a voice behind me said, “”there is a better place to be”" . This happened two different sundays.
        I knew that better place was church. I was 18 when this happened ,when I reached 27 years old I got Born Again.
        So who is my founder??, answer God , Who founded the Catholic Church??? , answer God, Who founded the Roman Catholic Church ? I will say from what I’ve learned, the leadership of the RCC was wanting to exert power and authority over the people, instead of being the people’s SERVANT.
        Please don’t say The Apostle peter founded the Roman Catholic church, why, because he didn’t do it

      • Scott Compton

        Luke Chapter 1 should tell settle the fact that even the mother of our LORD was born with original sin and in need of a savior.

        Mary’s Song: Luke 1:46-48
        46 And Mary said:

        “My soul glorifies the Lord
        47 and my spirit rejoices in God “MY” Savior,
        48 for he has been mindful,
        of the humble state of his servant.(vessel)

      • Aerauxel

        Mary needs a savior, we BOTH know that.
        But Salvation also mean PREVENTING from BEING sinned or you haven’t read it at the bible Sir?

      • Buck Robins

        Are you crazy? He has answered you several times. You do not want to understand, because you love darkness more than the truth.

      • james venuh

        You think your little head knowledge is enough? i’m so sorry to see your lines, Anyway If you want to talk on these matter than first you must Prepare yourself. God bless you

      • Aerauxel

        Try asking yourself :)
        If you don’t have objections on my post. better stop trash talking and start a civil conversation :)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        1. The Bible says do not BOW DOWN TO STATUE!
        2. your 1,2,3 above 1. wisdom 14:14 states for the vanity of men in the world they, (idols) came into existence. 2. jer 2:5 states when Israel went after empty idols they sinned against God . scripture is clear , behind every idol is a real enity,, a demon. this is just another form of getting men to worship satan. 3. 3. exodus 20 :3 this verse does not state an idol is God ,,, God is saying to have no idol before him. in other words ,no idol , no statue.. as a matter of fact read exodus :4 we are not to make, build, a statue!

      • Buck Robins

        Becoming a Christian is a choice base on the truth of God’s word. One accepts the fact that he or she is a sinner and cannot save himself. You must trust the finished work of Christ and repent (turn from your wicked ways) and live for Christ.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Venerate ,,, the word the RCC fathers have you use instead of worship.
        I repeat, when I went into a Roman Church and saw women in particular bowing and kneeling down to the statue of Mary , crying tears on the statues feet , then wiping the tears off with their hair, it is worshipping a statue of mary. wrong, wrong and again wrong! No it is not venerating.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Why do you think the Scripture says do not bow, ( because if you do you are wxxxxxxxxxx what ever you bow down to

      • Aerauxel

        Pastor, pardon me.
        Even IF you will read the bible 1,000 or more times. You will never understand…

        Tell me, what does the bible say about Idolatry? Or you are basing on your poor understanding. ^^

        Eg. Cross, the cross was a symbol of DEATH on there time, when their was a cross, someone will be killed. BUT after the death of our Lord, the fear from the cross was changed. It symbolized how Jesus defeated death through resurrection.

        Idol or Graven Images
        Give me the bible definition of IDOL.
        Graven Images? It is forbid but, isn’t it God who also allowed it? I bit you’re reading your bible :)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        God did not forbid religious statues, he allowed the usage of the images and statues, if people wanted to bow down to them , God wasn’t going to stop them until a certain length of time, then punishment comes

      • Aerauxel

        “God did not forbid religious statues, he allowed the usage of the images and statues”
        – Is Mary a RELIGIOUS STATUES?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Most certainly Mary is a religious statue, Please read Ex. 20:3-6 again. I have one version of the Bible that says worshiping and bowing down to statues is one and the same. Most people know that bowing to a religious statue is worshipping !

      • Aerauxel

        What’s the difference between bowing to someone and bowing to a statue?
        So what is the problem when you bow down holding the bible?

        If you say graven images was forbidden, what’s the point of Ex.25:18and 1 Kings 7:15-16 & 23-25

        Still you keep on accusing us worshiping STATUES, maybe if you are in our shoes, you are worshiping stones.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        All the verses u quoted have nothing to do with Idolatry.
        And once again , tell me why did Apostle Paul include Idolatry in the works of the flesh in Galatians5

      • Aerauxel

        You haven’t answered my questions…
        What’s the difference between bowing to someone and bowing to a statue?
        So what is the problem when you bow down holding the bible?

        Paul included idol in Gal 5 because the controversy surrounding Gentile Christians and Mosaic Law. It doesn’t pin point Catholic. Idolatry is condemn not just worshiping a FALSE god but also replacing God in His right place.

        If you told us that I never sinned bowing to someone,
        what’s the difference between bowing to someone and bowing to a statue? And what is the problem when you bow down holding the bible and worshiping the bible?

        The bible clearly stated that, idols are:
        1.They don’t exist or inventions (1 Cor 8:4/Wisdom 14:12-13)
        2. Pushing us away to God (Jer 2:5)
        3. They are GOD itself (Exodus 20:3)

        Which we do to Mary isn’t idolatry or worshiping but honoring. Mary isn’t invention, we ask for intercession and we don’t make her as god.

      • Buck Robins

        You are wasting your time. this guy he is happy in his false believes, he does not want the truth.
        If he does not repent he will die in his sin and spend eternity in hell.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I agree!!

      • Aerauxel

        You can join also :) and continue your accusation :)

      • YaraGreyjoy

        I think you got us wrong there friend – these images, this statuary that you erroneously believe we venerate, I imagine given your verbiage, as one would a totem like one finds in a relatively primitive sort of belief system like animism (all due respect to animists lest I do them wrong by accidentally misrepresenting their ways). That is not a correct view of this behavior that seems to trouble you so. If I may, I will, as a Catholic, break it down for you:

        p

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Instead of praying vain repetitions of prayer, which the Bible says people do , cause they think repeating prayers over and over, they will be heard.
        Instead of repeating, “”hey o Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now “” Why not just 1 time, pray , “” Jesus , I’m a sinner, forgive me , come into my life and make me whole, make me a new man , by washing away my sins with your blood..
        As far as your last paragraph where you say , ( I’m guessing you might use the cross…. as a reminder of Jesus Christ), Yara, When Jesus Christ is abiding in your heart, ( the inner man ) you don’t need to do nothing to remind you,,,,Jesus is always there, IF you have truly been born again, you don’t need anything to remind you of Jesus Christ.

      • Aerauxel

        You haven’t answer my question on what’s the definition of IDOL in the bible…

        Pastor, even Jesus pray repetitively…
        It this what you earn in asking Jesus to forgive you?
        You always ask for forgiveness and yet you don’t know your SINS…

        Maybe you don’t know how or what to worship what is why you are insisting your argument…

        I told you, I bow not just in Mary but also in my Karate session. You answered me, in Karate it is not a SIN, but to Mary it is.
        Where on the bible stated that It is not forbidden to bow at Karate? If I bow on you because I am a Japanese, did I commit Sin?

        What’s the different bowing to my Master, to you, or to the Virgin Mary?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        All the prophets agree, apostle Paul agrees Idols in themselves are nothing , so, why would Apostle Paul say abstain from Idolatry????? First and foremost, Satan wants to be worshipped!!!!! He wanted to raise himself above God , therefore wanting to be worshipped. Read Ps 106:34-38 concerning Idols, THe Jews, God’s people , in serving Idols , they sacrificed their sons and daughters to demons.,,,,That is a very harsh example of Idolatry. Again Paul said abstain from Idolatry. to put it bluntly we are to bow down to God the three in one and worship him only.
        Also when God in these last days scripture says He is going to move into Egypt and their Idols will “”tremble”" as He brings confusion to the country of Egypt. We see that happening as I speak.
        Show me in the Word, the Book, Chapter, and verse where Jesus prayed repetitively

      • Aerauxel

        Are you really a Pastor?
        Or someone who love to critics using the bible and even if you’re getting out of the context…

        Who are the IDOL or the god which the IDOL referring on that time? If you can’t answer this you have a poor understanding of the history ^^

        Are you awake of the “Gethsemane”? Hoping that you are really a Pastor or a false man :P
        Look how Jesus did in praying in Gethsemane :D

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I see no book , chapter , or verse , speak of falseness , you are .
        By the way Jesus prayed one prayer in gethsemane:A

      • Aerauxel

        So you admitted you have poor knowledge with regards to History?
        I bit it should be a foundation of your childhood, unless you just failed on your subject and just pay to passed :D

        One prayer? hehehe and what did He do in that prayer? Oh Pastor ^^

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I know more history than you can even think of . Jesus never prayed a prayer over and over like you pray,, hey oh Mary, hey oh mary, hey oh mary , hey oh mary, hey oh mary, hey o mary. Once again the scriptures state that people that think they have to pray in repitition, think they will be heard for their MUCH praying. By the way how many times to you repeat the hey oh mary mother of God pray for us sinners now.
        You did not answer my question, why, do you think the Apostle Paul in Gal. 5:20 included Idolatry with all the works of the Flesh??
        Here is an exact meaning of Idolatry, “”" worship of spirits, (demons), persons, graven images, also trust in any person, institution, or thing as having equal or greater authority than God and His Word”"”. Also please read Col. 3:5
        The book of Galatians is written to believers in God , Ch 5:21 states that the believer that keeps living in the flesh will not inherit the Kingdom Of God!!!

      • JuliePurple

        He could really be a pastor. I’ve heard/read stuff from some real pastors that were reeeeeally out there. Having some sort of credentials does not automatically guarantee good sense. Just sayin’.

      • Aerauxel

        Amen to that :)
        Some pastor consulted the bible before drinking beer :P

      • JuliePurple

        Probably, but from the look of it, also *after* drinking beer. A lot of beer. :-D

      • Pastor Dwayne

        thats funny , in my job of construction , I was working at Elevenworth, kansas prison, every time I walked by the catholics chaplains office he was downing a shot of whisky,
        One time I went into and asked the chaplain why he wasn’t out talking to the prisoners about Jesus, all I got was a blank stare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Duh

      • Buck Robins

        Are you worshiping your Karate teacher?
        To bow to and pray to Mary is to worship her.
        An idol is anything you worship in the place of Jesus.
        You could pray to a rock and get the same results as praying to mary. She does not hear you

      • Aerauxel

        Are you worshiping your Karate teacher?
        To bow to and pray to Mary is to worship her.
        – do you think I am? It is showing respect, bow can justify the thought of others.

        An idol is anything you worship in the place of Jesus.
        – Yes if we worship other gods, unless you can give me a written evidence in our doctrine showing we are worshiping other gods them you have a point :)

        You could pray to a rock and get the same results as praying to mary. She does not hear you
        – let’s just place it this way, do you really think a ROCK can hear you? because we don’t. we don’t pray on the rock or pray on the bed or in the food. We pray to God and ASK prayer to Mary, again, ASK PRAYER not pray to Mary or worship HER.
        She does not hear us? Are you sure? :) Check the revelation

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Whelp, Buck, I guess your secret its out – you ain’t Catholic! Your wife will be shocked…

        Seriously people – it’s not hard to understand: we Catholics & Protestants differ with regard to our beliefs – shocking I know & to think we were all getting along so well together 400 years ago… did something happen back then regarding differences in opinion on doctrine? Don’t answer that or I’ll be worried I’m arguing with a mentally disabled person.

        So do you do this to Jewish, Muslim, Bhuddist, other religions not your own’s message boards – or is it something special about us Catholics that bothers you so… You now you’re being an intolerant, hateful person, right? You don’t walk into a seder (or maybe you do) and kick over the family’s table, what makes you so full of rage at people who you’d never have to talk to in your entire life if you didn’t want to – I have to say, I never, ever had the impulse to impugn (look it up) the beliefs of others, never occurred to me – still wouldn’t do it. Lots and lots with hate in their hearts on this board. Even more who won’t take a simple explanation when we’re made to – ha – explain ourselves to some of the most plum ignorant people I’ve set eyes on.

        The best part is you all think this is shocking news to us… we know how you think about us, we’re 2000 years old, takes a lot to rattle that theology. Talk to us again when you got more time than the blink of an eye under your belts. Maybe I answered my own question: you’re very young & with youth comes insecurity, but come on people! Have some dignity.

      • Buck Robins

        You write a lot, but say nothing. You are trying to convince yourself that you are smart.
        dignity.? According to what you must call dignity. I want no part of.
        I would be scared to death that my opinion was wrong if a clown like you agreed with me.
        End of discussion. wallow in you self righteous slim.

      • YaraGreyjoy

        You reply with this and I have nothing to say? You’re a funny guy, Buckaroo – I like you, you’re a laugh a minute. Not one answer to a single direct question I asked you? Wow, I asked you a few very, very simple question – a child could answer them… if he was being honest… And yet it reduced you to the equivalent of internet tears & avoiding them utterly & completely, wow…

        Wallow in self righteous “slim” – I see, you’re a fanatical Christian Dieter, small sect but – good for you! (Oooh, ‘self righteous,’ a bit rich coming from someone who feels they have the ‘self righteousness’ to tell a people of an entirely different faith, that their belief is WRONG! Like I said, you go round to all the websites of people of faiths other than your own & “lay down the law!” With regards to your vast knowledge of the mind of the Divinity? Or do you just hate Catholics? I hope this isn’t your “duty” in your faith – to harass folks who know you not. Like I said before, what other religions do you “correct” via message board & not listening?

        Sorry I struck such a nerve you’re taking your ball & going home! (PSSST! By the way, your post in reply… that’s what I was trying to steer you away from when I advised you conduct yourself with a bit of dignity :( Sad, that. If your reply was in earnest, I guess you are a bit soft in the head & can’t understand what I’d call a very simple bit of writing done in haste & right off the top of my head whilst my attention was on several other things. I can’t fathom that level of… to put it kindly, let’s call it innocence or unworldliness – though those words are not entirely accurate… Don’t fret, I hear God takes special care of the simple.

      • YaraGreyjoy

        You want to know something astonishing? Neither I nor any Catholic I know personally use the above mentioned objects to pray or to remind us of God in our hearts, for me He already lives there & always has. But I’m just one of those people who have always had a strong inner feeling & a palpable moral compass ever since I can remember. However, that being said, there are many paths to God. He created any amazingly diverse world of His children & gave them so many different creeds, different backgrounds & cultures. This is His creation, His Will & all pieces of His Plan.

        To dismiss another person’s sincere path to God is to presume to know His mind & to lay judgement upon it & Him for with that act you condemn that which He saw fit to create His different, sometimes mysterious or even hidden from some views, ways to Him. Just because I access the Almighty a certain way does not invalidate other’s genuine spiritual connection to Him simply because it is not how I do it. To be honest, respectfully I do not understand this particular impulse to get so upset by another faith’s practices or creeds when they do you no harm, you probably could avoid the subject altogether if it displeases you so. I don’t know why someone so disposed would actively seek out a Catholic website if they just dislike Catholicism or Catholics.

        I guess, since you brought up the image of “mindless” chanting in opposition to what you deem meaningful prayer, I ought to mention that I was never ever taught (by priests & in my Catholic religious instruction classes) to “mindlessly” chant or incant any prayer that had no meaning for me. I was told that to do so would be a worthless, pointless activity if I was not meaningfully engaged or I didn’t understand what I was doing/saying. That’s the standard Catholic teaching right there. I was encouraged to pray pretty much as you suggest, personally & thoughtfully – to seriously try to open my heart to God, to Jesus & speak to Him from deep in my soul (or heart if you will).

        So that’s some of me, like every Catholic (under 80) I’ve known, I don’t pray the Rosary as to my very limited understanding it’s rather esoteric, my understanding of it’s meaning is incomplete & very small & what I do know of it I personally don’t feel very connected to – so I don’t engage in what I was taught & what I believe would be a pretty meaningless activity on my part. Not a big deal – Catholics do not have to pray the Rosary. But that does not negate in my mind the value of that practice for those that find it brings them closer to God.

        I learned the valuable lesson of humility, part of the wisdom that accompanies it is knowing that I am not the measure of all things, I am not the yardstick by which all other men and women shall or should be judged – to me, that thinking is not only outrageous but it presumes the impossible certainty of the knowledge of not only the inner workings of the minds & hearts of other people but of God’s as well, not to mention it presumes knowledge of having the sole lock on the Truth, this truly astounds & beggars belief & makes it hard for me to make myself believe that this conversation is being had in good faith. In other words, that you coming here to argue springs not from a desire to evangelize us heretics – but is more likely the product of dislike for us & you’re just having a go at Catholics over a doctrine that has no effect on you at all but you seek it out to gall you for some reason, why is not important.

        Before we say anything else, since so many of us have composed thoughtful cogent & civil responses for your posts, I want to ask you to please think hard & answer just this one question: are you here because you feel some sort of concern for us Catholics & our immortal souls or are you just here to perform what you think is ridicule or maybe you think it’s faith shaking of a people and a belief system that you see fit to treat poorly by pouring derision & scorn on the people and the ideas, it is not to engage with us in good faith & converse with in earnest. Is it? If that is what is in your heart, why is it there?

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You are the one in your previous post that said “I” might use the cross or the crucifix as a reminder of Jesus.
        I do not ridicule you I use the Word to exhort and for correction. I will guarantee if the Apostle Paul walked in to a Catholic Mass , “”today” , he would throw up his hands in despair , and say , This not the Roman church I wrote the Epistle of Romans to.
        Look at your Churches own history, A few times a few men that that were being looked at to be the next Pope would kill one another just so they could be the Pope. Imation having a Pope for your church that was a murderer!! Sure wasn’t the church that Paul was writing to!! I’m done with all of you. BUY

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Pastor Dwayne, I’m sorry I mistakenly saw ridicule/hostility in your posts here, I judged you harshly there & I shouldn’t have, I’m sorry. I have no interest in having that kind of talk. Cutting to my main point I just think in this conversation, you sharing some of what you believe & what draws you to your faith on a personal level, would be much more worthwhile – for you and for me. Please don’t go away mad, I hope you’ll stay to share knowledge of your faith from one who has asked with sincere interest. If not I do understand, the internet is more often than not a place for criticism & sarcasm.

        I should probably start another thread for this as it’s kinda off topic I guess. I’ll be here with an open mind if you want to converse. Take care either way.

      • susan

        When we go to funerals and have photos of our loved ones and kneel down and pray in front of them, even cry, it doesn’t mean we are worshipping those images, Everytime i look at my dad in a picture frame and say I love you does not mean I’m worshipping him. I miss and love him. God judges our hearts, he knows our hearts, so shame on anyone saying this is sin. You cannot judge only God can. Any image of any family member in your house, i can say is an idol. In the traditional understanding of the word, an idol is an image made of any kind of material that people set up and worship as a god. The most notorious example in sacred history is the golden idol of a calf the Israelites worshipped just as God was presenting Moses with the Ten Commandments. Such an act is the sin of idolatry, and as we can see throughout the Old Testament, it is hateful to God.But
        what about the crucifix and the statues of Our Lord, Our Lady and the
        saints that we see in our churches and keep in our homes? Are they
        idols? The answer is, “No,” and the reason is based on the purpose those
        statues serve.This is a sign of esteem and reverance. have you ever been to the Lincoln Memorial, the statue is huge, the statue of liberty, museums.
        Holy
        statues serve other purposes as well: They add beauty to our churches,
        and they serve as a visual focal point that makes it easier to
        concentrate when we pray. Properly understood, holy statues can only do
        good by deepening our love for the holy individuals they represent. God loves those who love his mother, plain and simple.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        So I guess God Almighty was wrong when He wrote in his Word, the Holy Scriptures, not to Bow Down to graven images, and statues, of things in heaven, on the earth and under the earth.
        Having been there , I’ve yet to see anybody worship the Lincoln Memorial, but I have seen in 2 Catholic Churches, women and men Bowing down to the statue of Mary, Remember the scripture says not to bow down to any graven Image,(statue) not me.
        And NO,, water baptism does not constitute being born again, for one thing water baptism is total submersion , and two. Peter in fulfilling his job as Apostle to the Jews, in answering in Acts 2:37-38 when men asked what must we do to be saved. vs. 38 Repent, (get born again ) then be baptized in water, A symbal of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
        A quote from Mk 16:16 concerning water baptism ,,,,,,,”" He, (anybody), that believes and is baptized is saved but he that believeth not is damned “”"
        You can be totaly submersed in water every day of the week , for a year and still be damned , once again that is not me speaking , it is the Word of God!
        When you stray from the Word of God , bad things CAN happen!

      • susan

        The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. …. If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives … There is no other commandment
        greater than these. Your breaking the commandment, do not bear false
        witness against your neighbor could be summed up here by the way you
        talk about Catholics.

      • Ashley Taylor

        Wrong. The one who looks out for the brother and allows God’s words to speak through him/her is a true child of God. You say, only God can judge you? I say, whether or not I’m judging you is between me and God. Wouldn’t that therefore, mean you’re judging me for thinking I’m a judger? Only God knows. People don’t go to hell for spreading God’s word to the lost. Saying lying is a sin, to a liar does not make you a judger. Its GOD’s word, not the speaker’s.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The Bible says if one sees his Christian brother in sin and corrects him , he has saved him from many sins and death, (hell)!

      • Aerauxel

        lol :P Submersion? hahaha
        baptizo is not always immersion :P

        Luke 11:38, convert it to Greek and check the Baptizo, convert to english, what does it say? :D

        Remember, Jesus said, He will be baptize with water but in many years, we will be baptize with the Holy Spirit.

        Interpreting the Bible by yourself and your cult? Sounds forbidden in 2nd Peter :D

      • Ashley Taylor

        It kinda does because your father can’t hear you. The flaw in you analogy is, catholics actually think Mary, Saints, and other dead people can hear them. You can’t communicate with the dead. If you try, like a medium, you will only find demons. Start talking to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, God of the Universe. Not inanimate objects or photographs of the flesh. God doesn’t even want us to cry over death in the first place.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Let’s see , I will state it again,,,,”"”"the Word of God states HAVE NO STATUE OF PEOPLE ON THE EARTH, ABOVE THE EARTH, OR BELOW THE EARTH!!!! I say obey the Word of God!!!

      • Scompton

        What do you mean the NT isn’t finished and on going? The Apostle Paul said. “If we or an Angel from Heaven preach another Gospel unto you let him be accursed”. The RCC just keeps adding to meet their own corruption of God’s word! Mary is also NOT The mother go God. She is the Mother of Jesus in His office as God The Son but Mary wasn’t before God. The last thing Martin Luther or any of the Reformation Fathers wanted to do was to split the church but Rome wouldn’t have reform from corruption. That’s why they referred to Rome as The whore of Babylon. Prayers and baptisms for the dead, interceding through Mary. It is Christ who died. Isaiah 42:8, God said,” I will NOT give My Glory to another…….Mormons have more sound doctrine than the RCC and they’re not Christian

      • Aerauxel

        DO NOT READ THIS WITH A ANGRY ON YOUR HEART

        1 Corinthians 4:6
        ‘Nothing what is written’

        Is faith talking about NEW TESTAMENT? or the understanding of Catholic?
        For sure, Neither NT is not yet finish when Paul is writting that Epistle nor Catholic because Early Christians is not yet called Catholic ^^

        If you won’t accept Mary as the Mother of God, then how about ‘Mother of my Lord’?
        Jesus fulfilled the prophecy and he didn’t come to ABOLISHED the LAW, the Law stated, Honor Your Mother and Your Father. Jesus did honor his own mother, why won’t you honor his mother too?

        You loved Jesus but you called Mary as the WHORE of Babylon. Do you think that is a good thing to do? You are poisoning everybody… God bless you

        Indeed, Rome was called Babylon, but when God converted PAGANS to Christians, isn’t it not babylon but ROME, that was BEFORE.
        ‘All Saints as past and all sinner has future’ why you people keep thinking of Past, people that think of the past shows low IQ…

        baptisms for the dead? that ain’t in our doctrine, stop accusing. You can’t considered ‘Praying for the Dead’ because you protestants STARTED to remove books from the bible to put down the Catholic.

        Isaiah 42:8 – what is with this? We ask for intercession, like that happened to the Wedding of Cana. We don’t do this for the LORD. We ask for intercession.

        You interpret the bible LITERALLY and the bible WARNED you not to do that. It was written in 2 Peter 1:20 and yet you disobey.

        Ignorance of the History makes you LOST.

      • Scompton

        Nor do I speak in anger friend!
        First of all, I am Catholic…(universal body of believers in Jesus Christ) not Roman Catholic. (Don’t say “you Protestants”) Secondly, I’m not calling Mary a whore; don’t twist my words! I said Rome (its leaders are the whore of Babylon In how it keeps adding dogmas and putting them on the same level as Holy Scripture!
        Yes, you do pray for the dead! You say masses for the dead. If my praying for a dead relative is dependant on them gaining Salvation, then Christ died for nothing. God put EVERYTHING IN CHRIST and he gave Christ to us! It is his intercession to The Father, by His death on the cross and the washing of our sins by his shed blood that we are saved. You refer to the saints…when you are in a Christ, you are a saint. Saints are the not only those who lived and did Gods work long ago but they are those who have been saved by believing in Christ death on the cross as the only acceptable means where by we can enter in to The Father presence.
        You call the pope Holy Father. There is only one Holy Father that is God. This new pope said, ” I will pray to the Madonna for Rome. He blaspheming God right there. There is only one who intercedes to God on our behalf;that is Jesus Christ, The Righteous!
        You RC’s say we don’t love or revere Mary. YOU Speak ignorantly on that issue as well. We DO respect and revere her. She is the mother of Christ our LORD but The council of Ephesus declared her Mother of God. You can’t just keep adding on and adding on new dogma and expect people to take that as Holy Scripture! We have ALWAYS called Mary, The Mother of Our LORD, ALWAYS; we don’t call her a whore; she is blessed above all women but you can’t refer to her as The mother of God – She wasn’t before God!
        God did convert pagans but Rome took on a lot of those pagan rituals; praying to the saint. Rome has a dead saint for everything. Rome Denise you communion. You no longer take the cup…it just goes on and on! Revelation 22:19
        If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book. Deuteronomy 4:2
        Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
        2 Peter 1:20
        Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. Context
        We were Eyewitnesses…20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men (moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.) We are given understanding by The HOLY Spirit, as were the early prophet;they spoke as God instructed them). Then before Christ’s death, He said before, “I will not leave you helpless but will send another helper, The Holy Spirit of Truth, who will instruct you) not the pope!
        As for The wedding of Cana. That was Christ performing a miracle. It doesn’t mean we ask Mary yo intercede for us now. Christ is our Great High Priest
        Your Ignorance of the History makes YOU LOST!!

        Sent from my iPad

      • Aerauxel

        First of all, I am Catholic…(universal body of believers in Jesus Christ) not Roman Catholic. (Don’t say “you Protestants”)
        – If it is true that you are a Catholic and not a Roman Catholic, you are Protestant. Same way of Apostolic Catholic Church. If not, does the Holy See recognized you, if not, then you are a protestant.

        The way you talk isn’t Catholic, you are one of the believers of ‘Sola Scriptura’ which is clear that you are a protestant.

        Yes, you do pray for the dead! You say masses for the dead. If my praying for a dead relative is dependant on them gaining Salvation, then Christ died for nothing.
        – Again, as I told you, you are indeed a protestant even your bible is modified. Our God is a merciful God, a Loving God and He know how to discipline His children. You can read this on YOUR bible.

        You refer to the saints…when you are in a Christ, you are a saint. Saint s are the not only those who lived and did Gods work long ago but they are those who have been saved by believing in Christ death on the cross as the only acceptable means where by we can enter in to The Father presence.
        – Yes somehow you are right but do you consider yourself a Saint, you claim to obey the Lord but are you sure you are? Aren’t you a sinners? Easy to say that WE are saints but, we don’t because we are sinners, still we are doing our best to be holy and follow Christ.

        You call the pope Holy Father. There is only one Holy Father that is God. This new pope said, ” I will pray to the Madonna for Rome. He blaspheming God right there. There is only one who intercedes to God on our behalf;that is Jesus Christ, The Righteous!
        – Holy is anything associated with God, in the bible, place that God appear is holy, God said “and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”, God’s dwelling place (tabernacle) is holy, Jerusalem is holy, goat for sacrifice is holy, and in the book of Peter, WE are holy. Any problem understanding the word HOLY? Again, we are asking intercession. What do Saints in heaven do to our prayers, aren’t they the one who are bringing it to the Lord? Or you haven’t understand the bible even if you read it 1,000 times…

        We DO respect and revere her. She is the mother of Christ our LORD but The council of Ephesus declared her Mother of God. You can’t just keep adding on and adding on new dogma and expect people to take that as Holy Scripture!
        – Why? Do you easily understand the bible in ONE reading? The Council keep on debating on the Issues in the bible with Factual evidences and declare. Yes we must keep adding stuff because it won’t be read LITERALLY, lots of stuff to understand and it needs YEARS to understand. That is the reason why YOU protestants keep on DIVIDING because you don’t have Council to talk about those stuff.

        Revelation 22:19, Deuteronomy 4:2, 2 Peter 1:20
        – Who did the removing of books from the bible? What did we add in the decalogue, is our commandments DIFFERENT from the JEW or YOURS? And who interpreted the LITERALLY?
        Your CHERRY PICKING always fall out of context

        If GOD hates us, why are we standing before your FOUNDER started a cult?
        Where on the bible stated that it is OK

      • YaraGreyjoy

        TL;DR

        So, you’re a Sedevacantist then? How fun for you

      • Buck Robins

        Where does the bible teach that we should honor Mary as sinless person? She was no more than we are, God chose to use her because she believed and acted on what was revealed to her. She died just like we will. If she were sinless she would still be here.

      • Aerauxel

        It only shows you don’t understand what you are reading :)

        What does grace means to you?

        FYI we don’t claim that Mary don’t need to be saved :)

      • Pastor Dwayne

        wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Wen are to worship God and only God, we are to exalt God and only God.

    • Mike Hayes

      I think one needs to take a scripture class. Catholics do not believe that the bible is history, but rather revelation stories that are rich in meaning, even if not historically true. The Book of Genesis for instance has TWO creation stories in it. Which one is the right one?

      I might suggest reading our Bible Boot Camp. Which you can find here:

      http://bustedhalo.com/googling-god/bible-boot-camp

      • Pastor Dwayne

        What were the 2 EVENTS, not stories, of creation? Give me the verses that describe these 2 events.

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Well stated faith13

  • boohoo..hehe

    who cares if adam had no mother and that the sky was blue or that zebras are black & white, vice versa…lets stop missing the point. God loves us all and we need to do good for his name sakes. Im all for the Love of our Lord and thats all that matters.

  • boohoo..hehe

    I dont understand..where are we today..ppl? i mean its amazing how sooo many ppl are quick to put a catholic on the stand and throw stones befor they even give them a chance..soo much disecting ones faith. just let it be. Romans ch. 5 Paul makes this very clear! Dont criticize your brothers for the way they believe or what days and so on. Basically..Leave them alone.the more catholics keep being Persecuted the more I trully whole heartily believe this church to be the one true church. why else would jesus tell peter you are the rock? and also pray for those who persecute you..hmm..sounds like he already knew.hehe. anyways..I love u all and would want to see ppl come together no matter traditions or what have you, for the sake of HIS Kingdom. one GOD One Love,always. God Bless

    • Carolina Franco

      I couldn’t have said it better let’s all pray for our brothers and sisters who are fled from our church

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Think about it hehe,, Jesus told Peter he was a pebble , and that He, Jesus was the Rock that He would build the church on. Peter was the Apostle to the Jews, not the Gentiles, I know that messes with tradition , but believe me Peter was not the First Pope , He was to busy in Jerusalem doing his job as the Apostle to the Jews.
      A

      • Megan Mazander

        The Greeks only had one word for rock, either a boulder or a pebble, and that word was “Petra”, or translated into a name, “Petros.” The language Jesus spoke to his apostles was Aramaic. they had different words for rock. The one Jesus most likely used was “Kipha” which was a large rock. When the apostles wrote down the Gospels in Greek, they had to use the only word the Greeks had for rock, Petros. Some people think that Jesus is really insulting Peter here, but if you read the Scripture passage, it really doesn’t fit with the context. Jesus calls Peter “blessed,” and gives him the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, and he is supposedly insulting him in the middle of this? It just doesn’t make sense that way. (Check out Matthew 16:17-19.)

        I hope I got all the translations right-i’m trying to remember this of the top of my head! I hope this helps!
        God Bless!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Peter= Gal. 2:6-9 Peter is the Apostle to the Jews, It was the ROCK of the teachings of not only Peter but all the Apostles that the foundation that the true church was built on. there were quite a few churches in existence before the Roman Catholic Church came into existence !

      • Aerauxel

        Hi again Pastor
        what pebble is it Pastor?
        Is your basis a FALSE translation? If you are in doubt, have time to understand LATIN VULGATE Translation because it doesn’t have lots of FIGURE OF SPEECH.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        A better question for you , who started the Roman church?
        And once again Peter was too busy working with the church at Jerusalem , so it does not matter if pebble or rock. The Scriptures state they, the church, continued steadfastly in the Apostles doctrine, NOT Peter’s doctrine

      • Aerauxel

        Peter’s doctrine? Is Peter one of the Apostle? ^^

        Roman Catholic? It’s Constantine :)
        Catholic? It is Jesus Christ himself :) Handed it to Peter :)

        History speaks for itself, and yours? Are you the one who founded it? Wow, you’re a god on your own heresy :P

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You need to get Born Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Aerauxel

        A quick-tempered man acts foolishly, And a man of evil devices is hated.
        – Proverbs 14:17

        Forgive me Pastor. Hoping we have the same God :)
        God bless you

      • Aerauxel

        I already found the truth.
        I challenge you to know/study (not believe) Catholicism, before you judge us.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        A HEAD knowledge of Christ is not knowing the truth, ONLY after being Born Again do you know the truth!! And bowing down to a statue of Mary is not knowing the truth.
        Once again ,,, Who founded the Roman Church, thet is found in the Book of Romans??????

      • Aerauxel

        You will just LIE to me because after I will (let us say I will) be a Born Again, I will not be a GENIUS man. It will just ME. ‘A HEAD knowledge of Christ is not knowing the truth’ any bible verse please? :P

        You haven’t answer my questions, or you’re guilty of judging us :) We are not worshiping IT(it is a thing) *smile*

        Book of Romans? I thought it was an Epistle XD
        It’s ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Pastor…

        If your denomination is true, they why ALL protestant claim to be true also? Isn’t it funny that it will be always be CATHOLIC and PROTESTANTS? Not Catholic and Dwayne’s Religion…

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Aerauxel,, The True church are all people around the world who are Born Again, and continue in the Apostles Doctrine!
        The true Church is called the body of Christ, The true Church is made up of all the people that are Born Again that are in the main denominations. The true Church is not belonging to any one denomination such as The Baptists, Pentecostal , Roman Catholic.
        Once again read Jn. 3:3 about being Born Again, and what happens if you do not get Born Again.
        When you get Born Again your whole life changes because of the indwelling Spirit. If you can’t point back to a date that your life changed, because Jesus came into your life and He changed you.
        ll Cor. 5:17, “” Therefore if a man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away, ( drinking, cussing, taking God’s name in vain) etc. behold, all things are become new”".

      • Aerauxel

        Problem with your english Pastor?
        Lots of denomination claiming the same. But they don’t have english problem using born again into Born Again.
        They don’t have the same problem with your cult saying Born Again which in fact the bible say ‘Except a man be born again’.

        You just change your bible to be suited by a belief that is false… I feel pity on you.
        I bet in 2 Cor, St. Paul forgot to include you :P

        Btw, Catholic is not a member of your denomination. FYI

      • Pastor Dwayne

        I know you know why I used cap. B in Born, and cap. A in Again. I really don,t think you are that stupid and ignorant! But to help your mentality, hear goes ,,, I used capitals on Born Again , to impress on your heart the phrase , “”born again”", since you don’t have a clue what the born again experience is. And yes Jn. 3:3 except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven.
        A says: Btw, catholic is not a member of your denomination————–I never said it was, What I said was , A few people out of every denomination get born again, and therefore make up the true church, Being a member of any one denomination, (that includes the RCC) does not make you a member of the true church.
        A when a person gets born again his name is written down in the Lambs book of life and becomes a member of the true church.

      • Aerauxel

        “I really don,t think you are that stupid and ignorant!”
        Yeah I am and I understand how you convert an ACTION WORD in NOUN.

        Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3)

        Tell me, does it say that I will join your cult? Does it tell us, that we will join a Born Again cult?
        Interpret it for us Pastor.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Fact when you get BORN AGAIN, the Holy Spirit baptizes into the BODY of Christ, the true church,,,, Not an organisation, I repeat not a n organisation

      • Pastor Dwayne

        When I see catholics confessing their sins to an earthly man , they call father, That is contrary to the Word of God , practically every thing catholics do is contrary to the Word, they bow down to Idols and statues, contrary to the Word of God. l Tim 4:4 says some Christians will turn their ears from the truth and be turned into fables. They will follow man made traditions instead of believing that the Bible is mostly literal in its teachings . In other words it says what it means , and means what it says.

      • Aerauxel

        Remember the 2 Peter, warning of Miss interpretation…
        Pastor, do you know what’s the problem of all denomination?
        your LITERALLY interpretation… You have only BIBLE as reference and but it turns out that LOTS of reformation been made… You just choose bible verse in your own advantage without understanding the context itself…

        That’s the problem of calling them FATHER? Or you are out of context again… Tell me Pastor, what’s wrong so that I will know…

        It is base on your opinion and it turns out you’re judging… I know you know better than this Pastor… Again, I challenge you to study Catholicism and tell me what’s wrong. Do not judge because you just told me earlier, you are not a SINNER. Hope you are right

    • faith13

      hehe….u think Catholics are being persecuted…??… really..?? …:D or maybe its just faulty knowledge.. and yeah you’re partially correct…we cant criticize another..even if they are wrong…cause God does the job of judging and punishing..:p criticizing anyway really doesn’t help…it just makes matters worse…best would be to sit and discuss..explain..hear and understand views..be open to information…reason out and question things…pray for wisdom…etc.etc.. oh and “don’t criticize your brothers for the way they believe…” ???..Romans ch. 5 or any chapter in the bible does not say that…-_- maybe your reading the wrong bible.. yeah its wrong to judge and criticize you brother etc.etc.. true.. but its not like God supports wrong beliefs either…he ain’t pleased with it.. in fact he gets upset and even furious when people believe in the stuff that’s taught by the world and is not from him. .so yeah..lets not criticize any of the beliefs of this world..including yours…but make sure that it is what God wants you to believe in…if that;s not done..then anyone criticizing or not doesn’t really change much.. why dont you actually sit down and see what the bible has to say about all your questions… oh and do pray to the father for wisdom and understanding before you read…otherwise whatever you read will hardly make any sense to you.. it happens..(read Isiah 6:9) and about peter..i think @pastordwayne:disqus kinda nailed it. 8)

      • Aerauxel

        Hi faith13

        I believe you interpret your bible literally…
        Even though you’ll read it 1,000 times, you will never understand the bible because you’ll just interpret it literally…

        Romans 5:1 Talks about Faith and Justification. You will be justified by your faith. If you criticize because of someones believe, then that is wrong. You don’t know that his/her heart so don’t criticize…

  • MTReynolds

    Raised Byzantine Catholic, lots of incense, rituals, icons, statues, and fasting. To meet my spouse in the middle of the road, I begrudgingly started attending a very conservative Presbyterian church after we were rejected from a local Catholic Parish for us not both being Catholic. For two years I was uncomfortable in the new church The challenge to me as a Catholic was: “if you Catholics know SO MUCH, how come you truly know so little about the Gospels?” that hit me. So I started learning A LOT about just the bible and realize how much BS Catholics shovel. A lot, and I mean a lot of it is man made, and my families arrogance and ignorance is amazing. I stay off the topic of religion as not to offend them, but I don’t like all the superstitions, and arrogance, especially my mother. Plus, they all vote democrat and voted for Obama, Mr. Abortion himself. Total hypocrites. The Gospel is pure, and I really do see how Catholics invented a lot of political BS and hokus pokeus and rules to serve themselves and their worldview.

  • wow

    Adam had no Father and Mother,

    Eva had no Father and Mother,

    Both of them was created by almighty God and were human.

    What is the thing that make you think Jesus is God ? Since he never called himself as God along his entire life. ( me and my father are one doesnt mean that he is GOD.) i always call myself one with my mother too and it doesnt mean i am mother of myself. It proves our friendship and feelings.

    A new born baby has sins? Think about it carefully and ask yourself why God would create babies with sins? is this meaningful?

    What about the holy ghost? did you hear Jesus talking about it?

    Did jesus ever said ? me, my father and the holy ghost are one. me the God ,Father the God, and holy ghost the God.. three ine One.. ?

    Did you ever think Why God would NEED to sucrifice his own sinless son to clean sins of humanity?

    did you ever think GOD is GOD ( merciful ) and forgives human and their sins are gone.. that is just it.

    why Does he need to let people kill his own son? to be able to forgive..

    Put your mind to think that the word GOD cannot be used in the same sentences with those words of ” be able to ” and ” need”

    God is GOD and has no needs and capable to do anything. and if he is merciful then he forgives you without killing. without blood..

    every prophet talked about the ONE almighty God, and jesus never talked about trinity in his life.. after he is gone.. people started to write down new things about his death. Anyway he talked old hebrew language .. and now we have as orjinal texts in Greek. tens of books are collected ,elected and the result Jesus is GOD. Sorry people but even in the bible nowhere he doesnt talk about trinity, he never says that He is GOD..

    you people how can you put a human equal with GOD almighty?

    When you die , if you are asked : did jesus called himself as GOD in the bible which you believed? Your answer will be NO !!! .. and you will be asked again then why did believe Jesus as GOD? since he never called himself as GOD? will you say that ” because People called and believed so ” so i did too ????

    if you are asked ; is it meaningfull a new born baby has sins? you will say NO.. So your brain and mind was blind to see that? why God give you that brain? to be able to understand and compare logical and meaningfull things? or just to believe unmeaningfull things?

    Ask yourself if you are %100 satisfied in your heart and mind.. with all those questions you had from childhood.

    If you are sure , ok then wait for your death to answer those questions above..

    If you are not sure then go try to find the TRUTH before it is too late ..

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1539788445 Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden

      There is scriptural support for the Trinity to be sure. You ought to look at the Biblical Hebrew and the Koine Greek to get a better understanding. In Genesis Ch 1 God the Father is the creator but the holy wind aka the spirit of God hovers over the whole of creation. Then in John the first chapter, it is said that in the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God and later in that chapter, it is clarified that the WORD of God IS Jesus Christ. So in the OT God has the Father aspect and the Spirit and in the NT we have the other dimension of the WORD which is Christ. Then there is what John the Baptist said about Christ baptizing with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Jesus Christ even talked about the Holy Spirit in John Ch 16 as the comforter and spirit of Truth! Then in Acts 2:38 Peter says that if one repents and is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. There is scriptural evidence for the Holy Spirit and the triune nature of God. HOWEVER I have not been able to find a shred of evidence that points to Mother Mary having a sinless nature. I respect and adore her as the embodiment of a Proverbs 31 woman. She was wonderful but to assert that she was sinless sort of goes against Hebrews 4:15 & 9:28 doesn’t it?

    • Marc Dane Flores

      Yet the Bible is clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). We know Jesus is the Word because John 1:14 tells us, “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” God the Father was not made flesh; it was Jesus, as even Iglesia admits. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God, therefore Jesus is God. Simple, yet Iglesia won’t accept it.

    • Tyler Lorge

      YES IN THE BIBLE JESUS ANSWERED I AM HE AN HE IS ME !!! +++ AMEN AN AMEN ! MY POOR LOST BROTHER :( YE OF LIL FAITH AN GOUBT :( PRAYING FOR YE AMEN AN AMEN ++++++ <3++++++

    • Tyler Lorge

      I NEED NOT LOOK ANT FURTHER AS OBCE I DID AN I CAME STRAIGHT BACK WITH ALL THE MORE GAITH TRUST AN LOVE OF THE TRUE CATHOLIC TRADITIONAL CHURCH WHICH WAS TAUGHT BY JESUS CHRIST THE “FATHER SON AN HOLY SPIRIT” I BELIEVE THIS SIBCE BIRTH AN WILL FOR EYERNITY ! WHY MUST YOU RUN AROUBD TO OTHERS TRYING TO GET THEM TO BELIEVE ITS NOT TRUE WHEN ITS ONLY ONES AS YE MY BROTHER THAT IS VERY WEAK IB FAITH AN TRUTH ! ILL NEVER AS LONG AS I LIVE DOUBT ALL I SAID AN BELIEVE AN I DONT PONDER ON THIS AS IM VERY VERY SECURE AN PEACEFUL IN ALL ALMIGHTY “GOD” HAS DONE FOR ME AN IN HIS SON JESUS THE TRUE CHRIST AN HIS MOTHER AN GOOD CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS :) AN MY BROTHER …”YES THE THINGS YOU TRY TO CLAIM ARE NOT SAID IN THE BIBLE ARE THERE RIGHT FROM JESUS CHRIST OWN MOUTH :) +++AMEN AN AMEN ! YE WERE JUST NOT LISTENING IN FAITH TO ALL HE SAYS MY BROTHER :) PRAY PLEASE AN ASK THE “BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST BE ON ALL YOU READ AN WITH A CLEAR KIBD CLEAN LOVING HEART OPEN UP YE MIND AN SPIRIT AN SAY THE “LORDS PRAYER ” BEFOREACH TIME YE READ AN ALSO ASK “THE BLOOD OF “JESUS CHRIST PLEASE BE ON ALL I READ HERE IN HIS WORD” AMEN AN AMEN ! AN I TRUST YOULL BE VLESSED AN ALMIGHTY “GOD” WILL OPEN YE ETES AN EARS AN MIND AN GEART TO FILL YOUR VERY SOUL WITH ALL HIS TRUTH ! ILL PRAY FOR YE ON YOUR HOLY JOURNEY HERE MY BROTHER! LOVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS AS A DESIPAL BROTHER :) IM A VERY VERY POOR SPELLER AN I TYPE BIG AS ITS A HANDICAP ! NUT MOSSES STUTTERED AN MANY HAVE HANDICAPS AN ALMIGHTY “GOD ” CAN USE US ALL FOR GIS WILL AM WORK TO BE DONE AMEN AN AMEN ! PRAYING FOR YE AN YOUR FAMILY TO BE BLESSED WITH MANY GOOD BLESSINGS :)++++++ <3 ++++++

    • Zayzay Hayez

      1 Timothy 3:16

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Once Adam sinned , sin was passed on to each generation, So yes, as the word says, conceived in sin , yes babies are born with the sinful nature , but are not held accountable until they get to the age of accountability, the Jews basically put that age at age 13, but only God knows each persons age of accountability. .
      Everything you have spoken in your post , just proves that you are not Born Again.
      Get Born Again so you can say——– WOW

    • Aerauxel

      Matthew 4:5-7 :)
      Jesus said He is a God :D

  • Scowise

    If someone give birth to a child, whose child is that? If we say Jesus has no human parents, did he just descend from heaven? Though I do not say the mother of my Lord is sinless, i believe that her role for my salvation is more than what is reaveld in the gospels. To whom was John refering in reavalaton 12, and what does that scripture mean?

    • faith13

      in revelation 12….the “woman” is Israel…. you need to refer to and know a lot
      of history to understand it fully….scriptural history as well as
      general world history…. a quick example would be Isaiah 54…n that’s
      just a glimpse of it…read and understand it in connection with rev.
      12.. and general history…well its a lot to explain..:/ the book of
      revelation gives you nothing spoon fed…most of it has a double
      meaning…its not as direct as you think it is…

    • Aerauxel

      All I see is Mary…
      It was obvious… Jesus was the child who will rule all the nation…

  • mathew

    JESUS was born without a human parent. So he was the only man born without sin. But Mary the mother of Jesus was born of human parents. When a woman is married and have kids, biologically SHE is no more a virgin. We respect mary but cannot give her elevated her to be a god or godess. JESUS never called her mother but always called her Woman. In the old testament we read Noah found grace in the eyes of God.But later after the flood, he started populating the earth and one day he was drunk with wine and lay naked. which means he made ark to save his family. When we say Grace it is for some purpose. Mary found grace to bring forth Jesus.

    • YaraGreyjoy

      So just to get this straight… in your point of view, because Mary, a married woman, you believe had sex with her husband post-Jesus’ birth, the act of having sex with her husband makes her sinful? Yikes, no wonder all Christians are nothing but sex obsessed scolds. No offense, man, but I just think that’s an incredibly harsh position not to mention theologically incorrect, in my humble opinion and in my church’s too. I sex between a married couple according to the Catholic church’s rules is not only not a sin but a hugely important part of living the marriage sacrament.

      As for your argument that Mary’s unimportant or whatever b/c Jesus addressed her as woman – you should go back to the original translations for the context of him using those words in ancient Judea. It’s all in the subtlety & nuance when translating not only words but implied meaning & there is so very much that we simply cannot elegantly relate in a single word – especially when dealing with the translation of ancient texts. Not to jump down your throat – which I really hope I’m not doing here, spirited discussions are great, lots of fun – but before I decided how much importance Jesus’s mother was to him based on 2 instances where translated words are rendered in a way that may to our English speaking 21st century ears sound callous or dismissive, I’d check the original document or at least some explanatory contextual texts on the subject.

      And incidentally, it was the women who stayed with Jesus as he languished on the cross – including his mother, Mary who one of the Gospels says he addressed with the words “Woman behold your son.” I can’t imagine in this awful hour the Son of God would choose to direct a terms of disparagement at his own grieving mother. The male apostles had fled out of fear or perhaps just not being able to emotionally withstand it. Perhaps that is why Jesus, upon rising 3 days after his death, chose a woman (or women) to appear to first & told her to proclaim to the men (including the Apostles) that he had indeed risen. Food for thought.

  • mathew

    Mary the mother of Jesus was not sinless is unbiblical. Since she is a human being like us, she also had since therefore she has to be covered by grace of God. It says Holy Spirit overshadowed her which means covered her. In Acts chapter 2 we see Mary was also present with other Apostles to receive the holy spirit in the day of Pentecost. WHICH MEANS SHE IS NO EXCEPTION FROM OTHERS. When a woman conceives a child she is no more a VIRGIN. Now she is not a virgin mary anymore.

    • susan

      It’s sad to see so many spend so much time trying to argue the Blessed Mother. The angel said “Hail Mary Full of Grace, the Lord is with you”, All nations shall call me Blessed. Do We? Also, a Sword will also pierce your heart. Like a child we cling to our mother, she leads us to her son. God would not enter a sinner, that would not have been possible for our Lord. She was full of Grace from the moment of her conception. I don’t need to see the wounds in order to believe, I ask for God’s grace to understand. A person, typically a woman, who has never had sexual intercourse is a virgin, that would be our Holy Mother. If people turn away from God, and choose sin which is the state our world is in right now, what hope is for them? He gave us his mother,
      Christ yearned over the mother whose heart was being pierced by his
      agony, and with filial anxiety entrusted her, not to those brothers of
      his – whatever was the degree of their relationship to him – who,
      nevertheless, did not believe on him, but to the disciple whom he loved.
      Woman here is your son,
      The term “Woman” was on his lips an honorific title rather than an expression of coldness. An honorific title is a word or expression with connotations conveying
      esteem or respect when used in addressing or referring to a person. TO KNOW MARY, IS TO KNOW JESUS.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        You only KNOW Jesus , when under the conviction of sin by the Holy Ghost , and you confess your sin to Jesus, Then , and only then do you become Born Again, and then the inner man , the real you can know Jesus, Most all people have a HEAD knowledge of Jesus , But they do not KNOW Him.

      • Aerauxel

        Oh your ‘BORN AGAIN by Dwayne ™’
        Mary was sinless, it was needed so that Jesus will not be sinned also…

      • susan

        Mary was proclaimed by the angel to
        be with a perfection of grace, which was a very powerful statement. How can Mary
        be completely and perfectly with God’s grace, yet still have sin left in her?
        Christians eventually came to recognize that it was extremely possible for Mary
        to be without sin, especially if she was completely filled with God’s grace. Luke
        1:28 happens to be the only place in the Bible where anyone is addressed with
        the important title of “full of grace.”

        “…the Holy Ghost shall come
        upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that
        holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God.” – Luke
        1:35

        Luke 1:35 shows Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant. According
        to the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant was the pure and holy vessel that
        held the Ten Commandments (the Old Covenant). The Ark was so holy in fact, that
        if anyone where to touch it they could actually fall down and die! It was housed
        in the Holy of Holies, which was a perfectly clean place where the Jewish high
        priests could enter only once a year according to their law (See Lev. 16:2-4).
        So how are Mary and the Ark related? The same language that describes God’s “dwelling”
        place for the Old Ark is used again for Mary’s overshadowing by the Holy
        Spirit. Put another way, the Old Ark held God’s Ten Commandments and could not
        be touched by human hands because of its holiness. Mary, the New Ark, holds the
        New Covenant in her womb, which is Jesus Christ. How much holier is Christ than
        the Ten Commandments? It only makes sense that for Mary to hold God in her womb,
        she too would be completely pure and without any sin.

        “I will put
        enmity between you and the woman, between your seed (offspring) and hers; He (she)
        will crush your head while you strike at his (her) heel.” – Genesis 3:15 What
        does the book of Genesis have to do with Mary’s Immaculate Conception? Genesis
        3:15 is the first passage in the Bible that refers to Jesus defeating Satan on
        the cross. It is also the first verse that shows us how Mary would become the
        New Eve. The seed of the woman, who would crush the serpent’s head, is Jesus.
        The woman at enmity, or hostility with the serpent, is Mary. It was God who put
        this hostility between Mary and Satan (the serpent), and it is believed to be
        in the same likeness as Christ’s hostility for the seed of the serpent.
        What exactly does all this mean? For Mary to be like Christ in His hostility for
        Satan forever, it is very possible to say that this passage implies Mary’s lack
        of sin. What better way is there to be in total hostility with Satan than to be
        in God’s constant grace? As the New Eve, Mary undid the “no” of the Old Testament
        Eve by saying, “yes” to carry Jesus.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        My Born Again is not my Doctrine please read Jn 3:3 about Born Again , AND the results if your not Born Again .

      • Aerauxel

        It’s born again, not Born Again…
        Problem with your english Pastor?

      • susan

        The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

        11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever
        has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does
        not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

        “Though seeing, they do not see;
        though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

        14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

        “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
        you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
        15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
        they hardly hear with their ears,
        and they have closed their eyes.
        Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
        hear with their ears,
        understand with their hearts
        and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

        16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

  • Michael

    The Bible does not say that Mary was sinless, anywhere. It says in Romans 3:10-12 “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, 11 THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; 12 THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

    • Aerauxel

      Nor the bible say she is sinful or sinned ^^
      Also, to whom will you believed? The Messenger or St. Paul?

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