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Our readers asked:

Where in the Bible does it say that Mary, mother of Jesus, is sinless? And if it is not in the Bible, why does the Catholic Church act like she is?

Fr. Joe Answers:

Catholics differ from some Christian Churches which accept the Scripture as the only source of God’s revelation. Catholics have a strong belief in the truth of Scripture, but we also believe in tradition as a way in which God continues to reveal truth to us. Tradition can include beliefs, customs, prayers, and worship, the teaching of popes, bishops, theologians and Church councils. It’s our process of continually reflecting on the way in which the Word of God encounters our own experience as a community of faith.

Catholic understanding is that tradition includes the Scripture, and began before the gospels and letters were written. We do believe that Scripture is a unique revelation from God and that the truths of tradition must always be tested and evaluated against the truths revealed in Scripture. They should not contradict Scripture. They should find their roots in Scripture.

The belief that Mary lived without sin from the moment of her conception springs from Church tradition. It evolved over a period of time, and was not formally defined as a teaching of the Church until 1854. It is not found explicitly in Scripture, but seems for Catholics to flow naturally from the testimony of Scripture that Mary was “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) and “blessed” (Luke 1:42).

In Catholic understanding the belief in Mary’s “immaculate conception” does not say so much about Mary as it is about Christ’s saving power. We believe that God created the human person to be in God’s own image. Grace is more original than sin. Our natural state was to be “full of grace.” Sin is our universal experience but it’s not what God intended for us in the past nor wants for us in the future. We are saved from sin through Christ. Mary’s being conceived without sin takes place in the context of the entire saving act of Christ. In being “full of grace” she is a model of what we human beings were intended to be and who we are redeemed to be through God’s saving power. She is the first sign of God’s victory over sin in Christ.

You also ask: “Why are Catholics who are baptized when they were infants, choose to lead unholy, even atheistic lives, die and then the priest at the funeral says they are going to heaven because they were baptized?”

The bishop of Rome, as head of the Catholic Church, sometimes declares certain people to be “saints” because they lived such exemplary and holy lives that we can believe with confidence that they are “with God in heaven.” Such a declaration only comes after a long investigation into the facts of that person’s life. The Catholic Church has never declared any deceased person to be “in hell.” Aside from this we don’t know and can’t presume the eternal state of any person who has died, although we believe that God desires all people to be with him in death as well as in life. Baptism does not automatically ensure that a person will go to heaven when he or she dies. We must try to live out our Baptism with lives of faith, hope and love.

The Catholic Church asks its members to pray for those who have died BECAUSE we know that we are all sinners, and even when we have tried to live a good life we can die short of the purity of heart that makes eternal life “with God” a reality. Yet we believe that God’s mercy is not thwarted by death and that God has the power to purify and transform the soul even after death so that it is fully open to participating in eternal life. Purgatory is not a place of “sentences”, like a prison, because it exists in eternity which is timeless.

We should certainly pray for the living as well, that they may accept God’s grace into their lives.

 
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The Author : Fr. Joe
Fr. Joe Scott, CSP, has been a campus minister, pastor and editor as a Paulist priest.
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Please note that the editorial staff reserves the right to not post comments it deems to be inappropriate and/or malicious in nature, as well as edit comments for length, clarity and fairness.
  • noni

    How can a human being declare another human being sinless, like what Pope Pius IX did in his papal bull on Dec. 8, 1854?

    • JuliePurple

      It’s quite easy to declare something. It is much more difficult to be sure it’s true. :-) A lot of declarations are made in the *hope* that is would be true, and because it would benefit the one speaking. Just sayin’.

    • ray

      The New Testament Canon was written based on Catholic Oral and Written Traditions. The Canon of Scriptures (Bible) was codified, canonized, translated by The Authority of The Church – Final Authority which is the Magisterium (Pope), not everything can be found in the bible, especially the word “bible”, and definitely not “sola scriptura”. The Pope could do that because he can claim authority.

      • noni

        Wrong again Ray. The New Testament cannon can’t be based on Catholic oral and written tradition. Catholic religion didn’t exist yet before the New Testament was written during the middle or end of the 1st century CE.

      • ray

        The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D. origins is traced back from the early Church fathers; St. Justin Martyr, St. Ignatius of Antioch, Tertulian, St. Clement, mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3, St. Polycarp, St. Iraneaus, St. Ambrose, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Athanasius, St. Clement of Rome, St. Augustine and St. Jerome. “’Catholic’ is the ancient name by which the Church of Christ has been known for nineteen centuries, this name was given to her not for reasons of controversy, to prove something, but because it identifies her uniquely. It was first used by St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch in Syria, who was martyred about A.D 110. The Church founded by Christ is here, for the first time, called ‘the Catholic Church’, a name clearly to denote the Church throughout the world in union with the see or diocese of Rome. It was stress the unity of the universal Church that St. Ignatius INVENTED THE NAME.”

        The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St Ignatius, written about the year 110. The words run: “Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church.”[15] Later, in the “Catechetical Discourses” of St. Cyril of Jerusalem we see the name “Catholic Church” to identify the church from various sects. St Cyril writes, “And if ever thou art sojourning in any city, inquire not simply where the Lord’s house is–for the sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens, houses of the Lord–nor merely where the church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of the holy body the mother of us all.”
        - The word is a transliteration of the ancient Greek καθολικός, pl. καθολικοί, derived from καθ’ ὅλου (kath’olou, “generally”) from κατά (kata, “down”) and ὅλος (holos, “whole”), meaning “concerning the whole, universal, general”;

        CATHOLIC WORD IN THE BIBLE:

        ἡ μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ᾽ὁλης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχεν ειρηνην οικοδομουμενη και πορευομενη τω φοβω του κυριου, και τη παρακλησει του ἁγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο. Πράξεις τῶν Ἀποστόλων 9:31

        From google translate, from greek translate it to english, and google says:

        While the church’s catholic of Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had been peace with porefomeni is constructed and attached to the fear of the Lord and the prayers of the Holy Spirit eplithynonto. Acts 9:31

        3) Q: Now how about the “throughout” translation?? A: Remove the ς in καθ᾽ὁλης της and then hit translate:

        s While the church throughout Judea and Galilee and Samaria had been peace with porefomeni is constructed and attached to the fear of the Lord and the prayers of the Holy Spirit eplithynonto. Acts 9:31

        4) Compare it now to the english version:

        ACTS 9:31

        New International Version (NIV)

        31 Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

        5) Playing more with google translate will reveal the following:

        καθ᾽ὁλης της = Catholics of
        καθ᾽ὁλης τη = throughout the
        καθ ὁλης της = throughout the entire
        εκκλησια = church

        Therefore:
        εκκλησια καθ᾽ὁλης της = church throughout the entire = church throughout = catholic church = Universal Church

      • noni

        You wrote that the catholic church was founded by Jesus Christ in 33 AD. How can it be when Jesus Christ is not even a Christian, much less a Catholic. He was a JEW. He died a Jew. On top of the cross where he was crucified is a sign saying that he is a king of the Jew, not king of the Christian or Catholic.

        I think you need to read the history of ancient Palestine as well as the middle ages to know the real story of Christianity. Maybe you can start with Josephus’ antiquities of the Jews.

      • ray

        Christianity is the completed form of Judaism. Jesus came to complete the Jewish religion by creating a Church that would serve as its fulfillment and be open to people of all races, not just ethnic Jews. As Catholics, we are those who have accepted the fulfillment of the Jewish faith by joining the Church that Jesus founded. The sign on top of the cross as “King of the Jews” is a mockery and insult to him by the Pharisees. Jesus clearly said: His Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that “a city set on a hill cannot be hid” (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

        FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

        If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

        The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13, CCC 813–822)

        Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church.

        His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

        Although some Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the Church’s official teachers—the pope and the bishops united with him—have never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

        The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8, CCC 823–829)

        By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).

        But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

        The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10, CCC 830–856)

        Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of “all nations” (Matt. 28:19–20).

        For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).

        Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to “make disciples of all nations” (Matt. 28:19).

        The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, “the Catholic Church,” at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

        The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20, CCC 857–865)

        The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).

        These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

        Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

        Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

        Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).

        He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

        The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls “the pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

        Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, “He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me” (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

        THE STRUCTURE OF THE CHURCH

        Jesus chose the apostles to be the earthly leaders of the Church. He gave them his own authority to teach and to govern—not as dictators, but as loving pastors and fathers. That is why Catholics call their spiritual leaders “father.” In doing so we follow Paul’s example: “I became your father in Jesus Christ through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:15).

        The apostles, fulfilling Jesus’ will, ordained bishops, priests, and deacons and thus handed on their apostolic ministry to them—the fullest degree of ordination to the bishops, lesser degrees to the priests and deacons.

        The Pope and Bishops (CCC 880–883)

        Jesus gave Peter special authority among the apostles (John 21:15–17) and signified this by changing his name from Simon to Peter, which means “rock” (John 1:42). He said Peter was to be the rock on which he would build his Church (Matt. 16:18).

        In Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, Simon’s new name was Kepha (which means a massive rock). Later this name was translated into Greek as Petros (John 1:42) and into English as Peter. Christ gave Peter alone the “keys of the kingdom” (Matt. 16:19) and promised that Peter’s decisions would be binding in heaven. He also gave similar power to the other apostles (Matt. 18:18), but only Peter was given the keys, symbols of his authority to rule the Church on earth in Jesus’ absence.

        Christ, the Good Shepherd, called Peter to be the chief shepherd of his Church (John 21:15–17). He gave Peter the task of strengthening the other apostles in their faith, ensuring that they taught only what was true (Luke 22:31–32). Peter led the Church in proclaiming the gospel and making decisions (Acts 2:1– 41, 15:7–12).

        Early Christian writings tell us that Peter’s successors, the bishops of Rome (who from the earliest times have been called by the affectionate title of “pope,” which means “papa”), continued to exercise Peter’s ministry in the Church.

        The pope is the successor to Peter as bishop of Rome. The world’s other bishops are successors to the apostles in general.

        The Catholic Church is 3 Legged Stool – Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium (Final Authority).

      • noni

        Wrong again Ray. “The sign on top of the cross as “King of the Jews” is a mockery and insult to him by the Pharisees”. This is statement is not true. The Pharisees didn’t make this sign. It was Pontius Pilate. Certainly if Jesus Christ was a christian, Pontius Pilate would have written “King of the Christians instead of King of the Jews”. You said that one of the marks of the true church is HOLY. Holy means something divine, emanating from God, something good.

        Lets find out if the catholic church is true to its marks. Lets take the mark “Holy”. Check out the following records of the catholic church if you can honestly call it HOLY:

        1. The crusades which was started by a Pope (Pope Urban II)
        2. The Inquisition
        3. The burning alive of people (heretics, a term coined by Iraneous) who disagree with the catholic church doctrines.

        You said that the catholic religion is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion. Jewish religion is the religion of Moses, the people of the book (the book of Moses). What does the book of Moses means. It is called the Pentateuch, from Genesis to Deuteronomy. Do you know what’s inside these books? They are full of murder, killing of innocent infants, sucklings, even animals who cannot commit sin, debauchery, incest, you name it. Is this a mark of a Holy church.? I don’t think so.

        “Jesus’ Church is called catholic (“universal” in Greek) because it is
        his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world
        and make disciples of “all nations” (Matt. 28:19–20)”. Yes, they went as far as South America. Do you remember how the conquestadores under the banner of the catholic church, subdued and destroyed the Incas in Peru? Is this a mark of a Holy church? I don’t think so.

        Do you remember what happen to Copernicus when he theorized that the earth revolves around the sun as opposed to the catholic church’s belief that the sun revolves around the earth, which was later on proven by Galileo thru his telescope that Copernicus was right? Is this a mark of a Holy church. I don’t think so.
        Etc., etc.

      • ray

        From the start to end, It was the pharisees who falsely accused Christ of blasphemy to the Romans sentencing him to death by handing Him over to Pontius Pilate, during the trial, Pilate even washed his hands in front of Jesus and the crowd, telling them that he is not guilty of Christ’s blood, the Romans were just executioners, before his sentencing the Romans had nothing to do with Jesus, because they knew He was a peacemaker, He never made any trouble, it was the high-up Pharisees (Caiaphus) who had a deep hatred for Jesus, His first trial was in the Sanhedrin (jewish court) accussing Him of blasphemy, because He claimed to be the Son of God, and they wanted Him to renounce His Divinity, but He did not. By this, He was sent to the Romans, was flogged, and tried again, but, by political pressure Pilate asked the crowd (jews) who to choose from, Barabas or Jesus, and they chose Barabas, then He was put to death. The signage of the Cross is a mockery to Him (ordered by Caiaphus) and laughed by jews,. S why didn’t the pharisees objected to this sign? Isn’t this suppose to be an insult to them? They sent Him to death by claiming The Son of God, King of Kings, and then put a sign like this? Just like the crown of thorns in his head, same mockery! Because this is a sarcastic way of saying – Ok you’ll be our king, king of the jews, but you are hanging on the cross all bloodied and dying! This is what you get from making false claims and we do not accept this!

        CRUSADES: Have you ever heard on how the Byzantine (Christian) Empire was driven out by muslims, now (Turkey)? How islam replaced Christianity, all their cathedrals, culture, government? Do you know how Christians were murdered, imprisoned, forced to convert by these invasions? I bet ya if it was US / England right now they would be airstriking them in a second! The world has been torn apart by the wrongs of the Crusaders. There is no way around that fact. Nevertheless, the Crusades were a reaction to
        the rise and destructiveness of Islam. The Beginning and Rise of Islam – Around 570 A.D. the “prophet” Mohammed was born in the city of Mecca. Later in life he met Jews and Christians in the great religious metropolis of Mecca. He heard their teachings. It was then that he occasionally withdrew into a cave. Then one time while in a cave what hesupposed to be the Archangel Gabriel appeared to him and declared him a
        prophet. Now this spiritual being was either a figment of his imagination or a demon in disguise, or maybe just a lie altogether. It was from here that Islam began and the world would change forever.

        Later after proclaiming “the Truth” he was forced to flee to the city of Medina, the second holiest city in Islam, where he gained great political power. It was after he gained political power that he decided to wage war against Mecca.

        Muhammad’s strategy in the developing conflict with Mecca was to attack Meccan trade caravans returning from Syria and thus economically weaken the city. In 624, the first major battle occurred, in which the Muslims, despite their inferiority in numbers and weapons, soundly defeated the Meccans. In the next major battle, the following year, the Meccans had
        the advantage but were unable to achieve a decisive victory. A Meccan army of 10,000 besieged Medina in 627 but failed to take the city. Muhammad meanwhile eliminated his enemies within Medina. After each of
        the first two battles he expelled a Jewish tribe, and after the third major battle he had the males of the remaining tribe massacred for collaborating with his opponents.

        Finally the Moslems won against Mecca. Delegates of the city pleaded with Mohammed to spare the city from destruction. He gave them the option of converting, so that their city might be spared. In other words, convert or die. It was the beginning of a pattern that would
        shape the world today. After the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D. 4 people succeeded after him. The first was Abu Bakr. He conquered the rest of Arabia. His successor was Omar in 634 A.D. He conquered Egypt, Syria, Iraq, the northern part of Mesopotamia, and Jerusalem. When he died in 644 A.D. Uthman succeeded him and he was soon murded in 656 A.D. Ali succeeded him and died in 661 A.D. Here is a chart below that shows the rapid spread of the Islamic Empire. The gray and lined areas were Moslem conquered lands. The black was the Byzantine Empire. The mini chart is the Byzantine Empire before Islam
        came. The fact is that the Moslems conquered almost half of the Christian world of that day. During this time Christians were not persecuted severely. Though they had to pay a tax to even be Christian and some rather than pay the tax converted. Such is a total outrage.
        Then after the Abbasid Caliphate came to power Christians were persecuted greatly. Pilgrims were lucky if they could make it to Jerusalem and live to tell about it. If that is not a reason for war then what gives a war a just cause? If The Crusades did not happen, then Christianity would not be existing today, you might be a pagan right now or an allah worshiper, think about that.

        INQUISITION/COLONIZATION? I have commented on this before (in this blog), posting it again: *Z*i*o’-media (msm books, tv, paid writers) will always tell you that it is the pope and the church who instigated this evil agenda against blacks (slavery), but little that the majority knows that the slave trade was a *j*e*w’i's’h enterprise, it first appeared in the so called voyage of 1492, it was not financed by Queen Isabella or the church. Christopher Columbus’ (Cristobal Colombo) voyage was financed by ‘maranos’ (crypto-*j*e*w*s* w/Catholic names). Fast-forward in the 16th Century after overthrowing King Charles I of England (Catholic King) by the banksters (Rothschilds), the slave trade was basically controlled hook, line and sinker by Nathan Mayer Rothschild (of the Rothschild Banking Dynasty), his biggest slave-trading agent was Aaron Lopez, established slave outposts on New Amsterdam (New York) & Newport, RI. That is why NY is one of the big
        money centers of the world.

        Another comment I made in this blog: Slave trade / inquisition is an industry owned solely by *j*e*w*s*, ever
        wonder why European Catholic monarchs issued edicts to ban, deport and prosletyze *j*e*w*s* in the past? As in my other comments in this blog before, these are the group of people who bankrupted nations/kingdoms by
        their usurious practices via their gold standard scheme. By this method they have controlled and manipulated credit, money/currency and allowed them to own commerce and trade. Their biggest industries are the slave trade, war financing and the opium trade. These are the very same people that have financed future wars (civil wars, WWI, WW2, revolutions, etc.) and have complete control of our money system – the private
        ownership of central banks (Fed Reserve, BOE, ECB, World Bank) and private investment banks. The economic bubbles and crisis that we are facing
        right now are very much thesame in the past, this is why the hatred against them is so high, this is why the term crypto-*j*e*w* or the converso secret movement in Spain started so they could still operate in their evil schemes, a lot of them became high ranking priests,
        soldiers, politicians etc that led to so many crimes committed during the Spanish monarch reign. A lot of big insurance companies and mega banks who were involved in this evil trade still exists and still operate in Wall Street and City of London, obviously the church has nothing to do with this.

        CHRIST (or now Christianity) is the perfection of Judaism because Jesus Christ is the fullfillment of the Scriptures! When He walked on this earth, He corrected the wrong ways of the Jews, always making the negative to positive, always fought with love, not hate as oppose to the old wrong teachings and interpretations of the scribes and the pharisees. That is why they cannot accept that that Jesus the True Messiah came here in humility not in glory.

        The term “heresy” was coined by St. Iraneous because there were groups, sects that was hostile against The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, they were denying the Divinity of Christ, That they were denying the God in 3
        Persons (Father, Son and The Holy Ghost), which is not
        just a heresy but also a blasphemy, All the Apostles, Early Church Fathers, Early Christians died, executed fighting for this belief. And heretics should be condemned. If you are stating that The Church just
        burned people randomly because they are in disagreement with the church then you are widely mistaken. The execution of heretics was sometimes due to the heretics’ own violence, as St. Thomas More pointed out, and any executions of nonviolent heretics were not due to the Church’s teachings themselves,
        but to the States’ *interpretations* of those teachings, or their own absolutist philosophies of government — attitudes that were later condemned.

        Now was Martin Luther, John Calvin put to death? NO. How about the Catholics in England that refused conversion on the heresy of Anglicanism? What happened to them? They were all put to death!! Now are Catholics complaining about this? What about the Catholics and Christian Orthodox that died during Communism, Bolshevik Revolution, Armenian Massacre, WWI, WW2, Balkan Wars financed by banksters residing, lobbying and bankrolling their money in Wall Street, front runned, enforced by Protestant (govt) countries to instigate this massacre? Are we complaining about it? None! Now on the burning of heretics, this is just for people guilty for obstinate public heresy. You got plenty of chances to recant your heresy and get off with a mild-flogging of some sort or imprisonment, but by burning people because they disagreed with you? That is all anti-catholic propaganda.

      • Cat

        Constantine the great PAGAN!! Every single coin of his minted before and after his so called ‘vision’ depicted Sol Invictus or Apollo or Jupiter. Even his arch that was built years upon years after the battle of milvian bridge(312ad) depicts nothing of any vision that was supposedly so ‘important’ to him, instead it is covered in pagan gods. Jesus christ wake up!!

        Do yourselfs a favour and look up Sol Invictus and mithraic mysteries, so that you may see the mother of your abominable churches.
        You are warned against this arrogant pride, you are to humble yourself, that means admitting you were wrong….not standing there telling the world that the catholics are supreme to everyone else. If you really believe in him, you best, for the sake of your soul, make sure you are correct.

      • ray

        If you have a problem with the Catholic Church, then throw away your bible, every time you flip, thump its pages, you are under the authority of the Pope – Magisterium, and The Church, we gave you the bible, without Constantine organizing the Council of Nicaea with the approval of Pope Silvester I and all the Synods, Member Churches, Bishops in the 3rd Century, you will have no handy bible in your hands right now!!! If not, then call also yourself a pagan, since you accuse them of paganism!!! Let the apostate John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Kenneth Copeland, Mike Evans, Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Tim LaHaye, Paul Crouch, Ed McAteer, Jim Baker, Franklin Graham, James Dobson and Jimmy Swaggart compile the bible for you, but there is a big problem – They cannot claim authority… They are all in bed with the *i*s*r*a*H*e*l*l* Lobby waiting for their paycheck and get raptured LOL!!

        Constantine – The Christian Convert
        “The hand of God was over the battle-line,” he declares, in his account of the battle in De Mortibus Persecutorum (44.9). His was the earliest account we have of a vision that was to become very influential: “Constantine was advised in a dream to mark the heavenly sign of God on the shields of his soldiers and then engage in battle. He did as he was commanded and by means of a slanted letter X with the top of its head bent round, he marked Christ on their shields. Armed with this sign, the army took up its weapons.” (44.5) Eusebius, on the other hand, is silent on the issue of the vision in Historia Ecclesiastica of c. 323 A.D. But in his Life of Constantine,written sometime around 338 A.D., he revises his earlier account, devoting all his rhetorical powers to describing the vision. In doing so, he creates a scene that would remain in collective memory to this day: “About the time of the midday sun, when day was just turning, he [Constantine] said he saw with his own eyes, up in the sky and resting over the sun, a cross-shaped trophy formed from light, and a text attached to it which said, ‘By this conquer’. Amazement at the spectacle seized both him and the whole company of soldiers which was then accompanying him on a campaign he was conducting somewhere, and witnessed the miracle. He was, he said, wondering to himself what the manifestation might mean; then, while he meditated, and thought long and hard, night overtook him. Thereupon, as he slept, the Christ of God appeared to him with the sign which had appeared in the sky, and urged him to make himself a copy of the sign which had appeared in the sky, and to use this a protection against the attacks of the enemy (1.28). When Constantine arrived at the gates of Rome, Maxentius hunkered down inside with his 100,000 troops. He probably could have successfully waited out the siege had he not misapplied an oracle: according to Lactantius, “he ordered the Sibylline books to be inspected; in these it was discovered that ‘on that day the enemy of the Romans would perish.’ Led by this reply to hope for victory, Maxentius marched out to battle” (DMP 44.7-8), and thereupon met his end. According to Eusebius, Constantine then “rode into Rome with songs of victory, and together with women and tiny children, all the members of the Senate and citizens of the highest distinction in other spheres, and the whole populace of Rome, turned out in force and with shining eyes and all their hearts welcomed him as deliverer, savior, and benefactor, singing his praises with insatiate joy.” (HE 294) – NOT BAD FOR A PAGAN!!

        The victory at Milvian Bridge has been associated in popular memory with the accession of Constantine and the triumph of Christianity, in fact, Maxentius was just one of several rivals for control of the Roman Empire; there were six total, including old Maximian, who came back out of retirement. Of one of them, Will Winstanely, author of England’s Worthies, comments, “man proposeth, and God disposeth; for he who dreamt of nothing less than a glorious victory, was himself overcome by Licinius of Tarsus, where he shortly after died, being eaten up with Lice.” One by one, the contenders knocked each other off, until only Licinius remain. He was defeated in 323 A.D. , making Constantine the sole ruler of a united Empire until his death in 337 A.D.

        - If there is any false and evil church that you are worried about then look no further than the big evil lie called EvangHellicalism, this is the fruit of the evil fundamentalism established by the “(b*n*a*i b*r*i*t*h) j*e*w*i*s*h* f*r*e*e*m*a*s*o*n*r*y*, thru the perverted bible called “Schofield” bible, co-authored by samuel untermayer, to shape and fashion consensus specifically in the bible belt area to a z*i*o*n*i*s*t point of thinking, the sole purpose is for support of the establishment of a masonic world (superstate) govt which is i*s*r*a*Hell and EvangHellicalism is the evil result, they became the cheerleader for this beast, who are not even biblical *j*e*w*s! WWI, WW2, communism, nazism, fascism and overthrowing of old empires is the reason for the creation of this evil state. So snap out of your trance, you are only waiting for their false messiah and the worst part is they hate you – gentiles!

      • Philip Sieve

        Bam! BTW, where did you get that stuff about B’nai B’rith and evabgelicalism? I’d like to look that up and forward it to a friend who was a Protestant.

      • ray

        For some reason, disqus is not allowing me to post links, plus I am also having problem posting comments here from time to time, just type it in google and you will come up with links… this is the canary in the coal mine when I debate evangelicals (burned again cults), that the so called “bible only” cults are created only for one specific thing – to be the biggest cheerleader for this *z*i*o*-beast and this is turbocharged by their false endtiming preachers such as the John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, John MacArthur etc…. All obsessed with the unbiblical false doctrine called “rapture”, this is always their anthem song to rally their sheeple in the bible belt.

      • Philip Sieve

        Have you tried writing “dot com” for “.com” and “backslash” for”/” and so on?

      • JuliePurple

        Nothing wrong with being pagan. It’s just a different belief system. I know several pagans who are kinder and more ethical than a lot of Catholics and other Christians I know. It’s just names. What’s important is what you do, not what you call your beliefs or deities or whatever.
        I realize this will put a twist in the shorts of a lot of folks, but all this bickering is about stupid details that nobody is able to verify rationally.

      • Mike

        “What’s important is what you do, not what you call your beliefs or deities or whatever.”

        if it is more importation in what you do then who you follow, there there would be no one doing anything in the name of anyone then we are back to chaos again because we have nothing to compare to in order to see what is good to what is bad.

        too, just because one says they believe in someone or something does not necessary means they follow them the way they should, that is what makes them a hypocrite and a lair, and to them they will be judged rightfully by the Only Living God Almighty, through Jesus for giving Him a bad name.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Mike
        I gather, from the plethora of responses from you to some very old comments here, that you are new to this forum.
        Welcome!

        I am going to focus on your direct response to my previous message, except for suggesting that you
        might do well to proofread your comments for logic and continuity before posting.

        I reiterate that actions are of primary importance. To use your example, it does not matter in the least whether you have justified to yourself that kicking someone in the head is a good thing. What does matter is that the kicking does not take place. Do you see?
        Your belief is irrelevant. It is the action that matters.

      • Mike

        I see that you are one of them anal retentive self justifying people that are always nit picking for punctuation and such therefore you really miss the message of what one has to say to you I am so sorry for you very sorry.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Mike. I didn’t mention punctuation to you. (See, this is one of the reasons why it’s important to re-read things before posting.) I mentioned logic and continuity. This means having your comments follow logically and make sense.
        It’s rather a different thing.
        I’m not sure why you’d be sorry for me, but hey, enjoy.

        As for missing the message, I think that’s exactly what you
        did. Mike, it really doesn’t look good for you when you ignore a competent rebuttal in favor of a tangential issue. It makes it look as though you’re avoiding admitting you were mistaken.

      • Mike

        see you are nit picking again

        and you missed the message I said,

        “for punctuation and such”

        meaning anything other then punctuation as well

        bow down to the one you serve and you will get what you deserve

      • JuliePurple

        I see. You don’t understand the difference between presentation and meaning. You equate details of presentation (punctuation, spelling, and so forth) with actual content (having your words follow logically and make sense.). Got it .

        How about we go back to the original point? Which is: belief versus action. I’ll just repeat my earlier statement: I reiterate that actions are of primary importance. To use your example, it does not matter in the least whether you have justified to yourself that kicking someone in the head is a good thing. What does matter is that the kicking does not
        take place. Do you see? Your belief is irrelevant. It is the action that matter

      • Mike

        I am not going to deal with you anymore because it is obvious to me you have an underdeveloped ego, and to keep taking to you would only feed it with false pride.

        go see a psychologist and try to get help for yourself you clearly have a personality disiorder –

      • JuliePurple

        So you are, in effect, conceding the point. Thanks.
        I appreciate it.

        But it is too bad that instead of taking constructive
        suggestions, you keep trying to introduce irrelevant and incorrectly interpreted issues.

        Just as a F.Y.I. sort of thing, your credibility would be
        enhanced by your using the proper terms for things.

      • Mike

        as usual with personality types such are yours, that have this disorder when you cannot find others to feed your underdeveloped ego with false pride you subconsciously end up doing it yourself by projecting with a snappy comeback such as you did to make you and anyone else, but especially you feel like you won this so called argument, therefore you are the winner of the games you play so you can try and bring balance into your psyche that is out of balance due a dysfunctional environment that you where raised up in. therefore, in order to cope you play these games with yourself and others to try to make you feel good about yourself, low self-esteem is the root of it. this is why you had your snappy comeback making you the winner, therefore you are now better then me, in turn that just makes you feel better about yourself, raising your low self esteem falsely.

        too , denial will play a big part in this too. as you already denied it once by not even commenting what I said in my last comment, you paid it no mind, instead you just played out your game to make you the winner and I the loser.

        the said thing is you will if you do not get help for yourself be the loser in the end.

        Jesus and what he teaches other’s on how to live and love others if you use your nit picking ways and play that game to the tee you will find your self esteem raised up and have a balanced ego and too get to go to heaven.

      • JuliePurple

        Poor Mike. You’ve lost it, buddy. When you wrote, earlier, “I am not going to deal with you anymore”, I thought, whew, he’s finally stopped with the nonsense. But no. (And incidentally, when you quote someone directly, quotation marks are indicated. I know you have a thing against correct punctuation — and logic, for that matter –, but it really does add clarity.)
        Poor Mike.

      • Mike

        you are just Satan’s little play toy because you refuse to accept God, so you just play your little Satan game taunting others when you can and giving off complements to keep people at a bay. you can play around all you want God will allow you to do that too. but when you die and come face to face with the truth you will wish you didn’t play like you do, but by then it will be too late for you.

        and you will be the one that is now poor JuliePurple, who will turn to charcoal black and very ugly too. if you do not change your ways before it is too late.

      • Mike

        go and look again and compare history to itself, then

        I say the same thing to you and your pagan gods,
        If you really believe in him, you best, for the sake of your soul, make sure you are correct.

      • ray

        1. The Church is not holy because of her members. She is holy because her founder, Jesus Christ, is holy.

        When we say that the Church is holy, we do not mean that all of her members have ceased to be sinners and have themselves become perfectly holy. On the contrary, the Church from the beginning, in her human dimension, has been composed of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15). The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “all members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners” (CCC 299). Yet
        the Church, properly understood, is not comprised solely of sinful human beings. St. Paul reminds us that Jesus Christ is the head of his body, the Church (Col. 1:18), and that the Church’s holiness is derived from
        her mystical union with Him (1 Cor. 12:12-13).

        2. The Church is holy because the Holy Spirit (the Sanctifier) lives and dwells in her.

        On the Feast of Pentecost, Jesus poured out the promise of his Holy Spirit upon the Church and filled her with supernatural life (Acts 2:1-4). Just as the Holy Spirit dwelt in the human body of Christ, so He now dwells in Christ’s mystical body and makes her holy. The Holy Spirit is the soul of the Church.

        “For just as the body is one has many members, and all
        the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body” (1 Cor. 12:-12-13).

        We read in the Catechism:

        “The Church . . . is held, as a matter of faith, to be
        unfailingly holy. This is because Christ, the Son of God, who with the Father and the Spirit is hailed as ‘alone holy,’ loved the Church as his Bride, giving himself up for her so as to sanctify her; he joined her to himself as his body and endowed her with the gift of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God.” The Church, then, is “the holy People of God,”and her members are called “saints” (CCC 823).

        3. The Church is holy because Christ has made of her an instrument of sanctification.

        The Church was founded for no other reason than to continue Christ’s redemptive and sanctifying work in the world. By filling his Church with the Holy Spirit, Jesus has endowed her with supernatural life and the full means of salvation and sanctification. He has made the Church herald of his holy gospel, teacher of his holy doctrine, and minister of his holy sacraments (Mt. 28:19-20).

        United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him;
        through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. “All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God.”It is in the Church that “the fullness of the means of salvation”has been deposited. It is in her that “by the grace of God we acquire holiness” (CCC 824).

        From the very beginning, the Church has been equipped with the means to help make holy the sinners who are found in her ranks. The Church has been entrusted with the holy sacraments along with the God’s holy word precisely in order to be able to help make sinners holy. It was in this sense that the Apostle Paul declared,

        “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her,
        that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and
        without blemish” (Eph. 5:25-27).

        4. The Church on earth is endowed with a holiness that is real though imperfect.

        There is an old latin axiom, “Ecclesia semper reformanda est” (The Church is always to be reformed). The Church, while possessing true sanctity from her divine source, is nevertheless always in need of reform and purification on account of the sinfulness of her members. She is therefore at the same time holy yet imperfect. The Catechism puts it this way:

        “The Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real though imperfect.”In her members perfect holiness is something yet to be acquired: “Strengthened by so many and such great means of salvation, all the faithful, whatever their condition or state – though each in his own way – are called by the Lord to that perfection of sanctity by which the Father himself is perfect” (CCC 825).

        The Church is therefore holy, though having sinners in her midst, because she herself has no other life but the life of grace. If they live her life, her members are sanctified; if they move away from her life, they fall into sins and disorders that prevent the radiation of
        her sanctity (CCC 827).

        Therefore, when we speak of the Church’s mark of holiness, we always do so in reference to her divine source (The Holy Trinity) and to what the Church was established and empowered by God to do, and not the
        condition or status of her members.

      • Mike

        the word Christianity came from the word Christ, just as Christianity comes from Judaism . he is right in that what he said you are nit picking just because he made a mistake in who wrote that sign, so now you too are no better then then ones that made a mockery of Jesus

      • Cat

        Actually he didnt die on a cross, the greek word is ‘stauros’ and it means an upright pole. The cross was a holy symbol of life to almost every single pagan religion on the planet. The romans were ‘pagan’ (they still are, they just dont want to know this) when ‘Jesus’ was murdered. There is no way on this earth that any pagan would murder someone they deemed a criminal, on such a holy object.

        However, Ray is right, for a change, when he said Jerome and Eusebius are different, they were, and Erasmus did live in 1500′s. He wrote the bible out in greek.

        William Tyndale used Erasmus’ work…when attempting to write the english bible for the first time…so the catholic monarchs strangled him and then burned him at the stake for heresy. They liked that, so much for ‘don’t judge’ and ‘love your neighbour’.
        Look up the catholic ‘bloody mary’ see how many innocent men, women(some pregnant) elderly and children, she burned at the stake for going against the catholic doctrine. Thousands upon thousands have died at the hands of this tyrannical harlot.

      • Mike

        There is no way on this earth that any pagan would murder someone they deemed a criminal, on such a holy object.

        the only reasoning I see wrong here is that the Pagan did not see any fault Jesus , so he washed his hands of the matter then put him to death anyways that is what got him into really big trouble with God his Father.

      • ray

        This is a masonic Jehovah’s witness argument to undermine not just Christ’s Divinity but also to His death and passion in the cross.

        Cross (definition) – a mark, object, or figure formed by two short intersecting lines or pieces.

        Matthew 16:24-25
        Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

        24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.

        John 19:17
        Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

        17 And bearing his own cross, he went forth to that place which is called Calvary, but in Hebrew Golgotha.

        - The roman method of execution is not just on poles, but it was also done in various shapes: Crosses, poles, stakes, upside-down crosses, x-shaped crosses, walls, roofs, etc.

        From The facts of crucifixion by Robert Gidley

        What was a typical crucifixion like?

        After the flogging, the victim would carry his own cross bar (called a patibulum) from the flogging area inside the city to the crucifixion area outside of the city walls. The crucifixion area was always outside the city, because the process was horrible and disturbing to citizens.

        The upright part of the cross (the stipe) was permanently mounted in the crucifixion area. The part that the victim carried was the cross bar, weighing in at 75 to 125 pounds. The cross bar would be balanced on the victim’s shoulders, and their arms would be tied to the crossbar. In this position, if the victim tripped or fell, they could not use their arms to break their fall, and they would likely fall face first into the ground.

        The victim was escorted by a Roman guard (probably a centurion and several soldiers), who were responsible for guarding the victim until his death. One of the soldiers would display a sign with the crime written on it.

        Once the crucifixion area was reached, the victim would be offered a drink of wine mixed with myrrh to act as a mild pain killer. The drink was a charitable service performed by an association of women in Jerusalem.

        Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. – Mark 15:23

        The victim would then be nailed to the cross bar. The nails would be driven through the wrists, not through the palms, as these would not support the body weight.

        The cross bar would be raised and placed on the upright post, where the victim’s heels would be nailed to the post.

        Once crucified, a victim would live for a period ranging from a few hours to a few days. How long he lived depended mostly on how severe the scourging was.

        If no one claimed the body, it would be left on the cross to be eaten by predatory animals. The family could, however, claim the body for burial. In this case, a Roman soldier would pierce the chest with a sword or spear to make sure the victim was dead.

      • Mike

        Jesus was a JEW, OMG you are so right!!!!!!

        But after that your brains locks up and no longer can analyze information properly to get to the truth.

        Jesus too was called Jesus Christ, the term Christianity came from the root word Christ, look see the first 6 letters of the word Christianity, or Christian, start with, let’s count them together shall we?

        1. C
        2. H
        3. R
        4. I
        5. S
        6. T
        ian

        See how easy that is when your brain does not lock up due to being too negative towards the truth?

      • ray

        The 21 ECUMENICAL COUNCILS AND THEIR CHIEF DOCTRINES – ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CAN CAN CONVENE A COUNCIL.

        From it’s more than 2,000 year existence of the CHURCH, so far she has 21 Ecumenical Councils often overlooked by quasi-christian churches and cults such as

        1. The First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325)
        This Council, the first Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, was held in order to bring out the true teaching of the Church as opposed by the heresy of Arius. It formally presented the teaching of the Church declaring the divinity of God the Son to be one substance and one nature with that of God the Father. There were twenty canons drawn up, in which the time of celebrating Easter was clarified and a denunciation of the Meletian heresy made, also various matters of discipline or law were dealt with and several decisions advanced. From this Council we have the Nicene Creed.

        2.The First Council of Constantinople (A.D. 381)
        Again the true faith was maintained against the Arians. Answer was also given against the Apollinarian and Macedonian heresies. In answering the latter which denied the Godhead of the Holy Spirit, the dogma of the Church was again stated and the words inserted into the Nicene Creed declaring the truth that the Holy Spirit proceeded from both the Father and the Son.

        3. The Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431)
        The third General Council of the Church defined the Catholic dogma that the Blessed Virgin is the Mother of God and presented the teaching of the truth of one divine person in Christ. The Council was convened against the heresy of Nestorius.

        4. The Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451)
        Held twenty years after the third General Council, this was to answer the Eutychian or Monophysite heresy and affirm the doctrine of two natures in Christ. This followed as a result of the growing controversy among the early theologians who were being led into error by a confused idea of the one divine person being both God and man or that there are two natures, human and divine, in the one person of the Word.

        5. The Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)
        This Council is sometimes referred to as the Council of the Three Chapters because its chief work was to condemn the writings and teaching of Theodore of Mopsuestia, the erroneous portions in the writings of Theodoret, and the letters of Ibas. It reaffirmed the dogmas stated by the third and forth General Councils.

        6. The Third Council of Constantinople (A.D. 680)
        This Council gave the definition of two wills in Christ as the true teaching against the Monothelite heresy which claimed only one will.

        7. The Second Council of Nicaea (A.D. 757)
        Here was defined the veneration due to holy images, that we give honor only to those they represent and not to the image itself as such; it presented the answer to the image breakers or iconoclasts. It also gave twenty-two canons regarding the clergy.

        8. The Forth Council of Constantinople (A.D. 869)
        This was a disciplinary Council to heal the threat of schism which was separating the East and Rome. This was done by deposing the usurper, Photius, and restoring the patriarch, Ignatius. The Greeks finally refused acknowledgment of the Council.

        9. The First Council of the Lateran (A.D. 1123)
        The Lateran is the Cathedral Basilica of Rome. This was the first General Council held in the West. It was convened to confirm the peace between the Church and State and to give final settlement to the problem of Investiture between Emperor Henry V and the Holy See. It was agreed that the Church has all rights to choose and consecrate prelates and invest them, and Church goods were restored to the Church.

        10. The Second Council of the Lateran (A.D. 1139)
        This Council took disciplinary action and excommunicated Roger of Sicily who championed the anti-pope. Anacletus II, and imposed silence on Arnold of Brescia. Canons against simony, incontinence, breaking the “Truce of God,” dueling or group feuding were advanced, and regulations concerning clerical dress were given.

        11. The Third Council of the Lateran (A.D. 1179)
        After forty years again the General Council took actions against simony and abuses of the clergy. Also defense of the true teaching was made in answer to the Albigenses and Waldenses.

        12. The Forth Council of the Lateran (A.D. 1215)
        Besides disciplinary action the seventy decrees of this Council answered prevailing heresies, gave pronouncements in favor of the Crusades, prescribed the duty of annual confession and Easter Communion, offered additional definitions on the absolute unity of God, and presented definition of the doctrine of the Church regarding sacraments, and in particular that the bread and wine, by transubstantiation, become the Body and Blood of Christ.

        13. The First Council of Lyons (A.D. 1245)
        This Council was called to bring disciplinary action against Emperor Frederick II and at the same time sentence of the solemn renewal of excommunication was passed on the emperor.

        14. The Second Council of Lyons (A.D. 1274)
        Effort was made at this Council under Pope Gregory X to bring about union between the East and West. It also defined that the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son. The discipline governing the election of the pope was formulated.

        15. The Council of Vienne (A.D. 1311 and 1312)
        The purpose of this Council was to settle the affair of the Templars, to advance the rescue of the Holy Land, and to reform abuses in the Church. The doctrinal decrees of the Council were: condemnation that the soul is not “in itself the essentially the form of the human body”,; that sanctifying grace is infused into the soul at baptism; and denial that a perfect man is not subject to ecclesiastical and civil law.

        16. The Council of Constance (A.D. 1414 – 1418)
        This Council can be regarded as ecumenical only in so far as it was in union with the pope. The heretical teaching of John Huss and Wyclif were answered. It was here that communion to the laity under one species was prescribed as a cure to the make it understood that the entirety of Jesus Christ is present under both or either species. In transubstantiation all of the bread is changed into the body, blood, soul and Divinity of Christ and all of the wine is changed into the body, blood, soul and Divinity of Christ and reception of either species was reception of the total; body, blood, soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

        17. The Council of Ferrara-Florence (A.D. 1438 – 1439)
        This was convened to unite the Greeks and other oriental sects with the Latin Rite. It was defined that “the Holy Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over all the world; that the Roman Pontiff is the successor of Peter, prince of the Apostles; that he is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole Church, the Father and teacher of all Christians.”

        18. The Fifth Council of the Lateran (A.D. 1512 – 1517)
        It defined the Pope’s authority over all Councils and condemned errors regarding the human soul, namely, that the soul with its intellectual power is mortal.

        19. The Council of Trent (opened under Pope Paul III in 1545, continued under Pope Julius III, and concluded under Pope Pius IV (A.D. 1563)
        The doctrine of original sin was defined; the decree on Justification was declared against the Lutheran errors that faith alone justifies and that the merits of Christ; the doctrine of the sacraments of Penance and Extreme Unction was defined; decrees relating to the censorship of books were adopted; the doctrine of Christian marriage was defined and decrees on Purgatory and indulgences adopted. Besides many refutations against the so called reformers were given and measures of true reform advanced.

        20. The First Vatican Council (opened under Pope Pius IX in 1869 and adjourned on October 20, 1870)
        This General Council was never closed officially, but was suspended. Technically, it continued until it was closed by Pope John XXIII. Of this council the most important decree was that of the primacy of the pope and of papal infallibility.

        21. The Second Vatican Council (opened under Pope John XXIII in 1962, it continued under Pope Paul XI until the end in 1965)
        Several important constitutions and decrees were promulgated, the most far reaching being the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy.

      • ray

        Wrong the The Canon of Scriptures was set in 325, it was codified, canonized, compiled by The Catholic Church, CONTINUALLY “affirmed” it as such for the next 1,400 years In the 4th century Pope Damasus commissioned St. Jerome to translate the scriptures from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to Latin which became the Latin Vulgate. That is why the word bible is not in the bible! There was no proof that The book of Mark was written by the Apostle Mark and the other apostles (writers) as well.

      • noni

        Wrong again Ray. The canon was not set in 325 by the catholic church as there was no catholic church then. It was Emperor Constantine who called the council of Bishops all over the empire, presided it and dictated what should be considered canonical, and what should be considered beneficial for the empire to strengthen his power. Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, a leading christian (not catholic) exegete (270-340), Emperor Constantine’s biographer, prepared almost everything that the council voted on as to what should be considered canonical.

        As for the Latin Vulgate, actually its not all Jerome’s (his real name is also Eusebius) work. He (Jerome) based it on the works of Erasmus. Read your medieval history. Its all in there.

      • ray

        Nope, The 1st Council of Nicaea, was organized by Emperor Constantine, but it was recognized (approved) by Pope Sylvester I, because the emperor knew the authority of the pope, that all synods, churches, churches, bishops, priests in all its universality was all in communion with him and he respected that. Pope Sylvester 1 even encouraged an attitude of cooperation and peace between the Church and the state for the first time in history. The only reason he was not participating (physically) is because of advanced (old age), and at that time, Christianity was just legalized, the merging of state and religion was still in the process, that is why the presence of the Emperor was also needed.

      • noni

        “Christianity was just legalized, the merging of state and religion was still in the process”

        Who legalized christianity? The Romans, who you know are not christians but pagans. If the state(PaganRomans) was merged with religion(Christian), so the Christian religion is also a Pagan religion. No wonder Jesus was born on December 25 which is the same birthdate of
        Pagan gods.

        “The Church on earth is endowed with a holiness that is real though imperfect. She is therefore at
        the same time holy yet imperfect”

        Holiness and imperfection cannot be put together. Being Holy is perfect just as God is perfect. If it (Catholic
        Church) is imperfect, then it is not God’s. If it is not God’s, then what is it? Rom 11:16 For if the
        firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. Try to reverse the reading of this verse and you will come up with the Catholic church to be not Holy.

        “Church was established and empowered by God to do, and not the condition or status of her members”

        Hey Ray, maybe you mistook the church as the body of popes, cardinals, bishops, priests, deacons, the Holy See (which is actually not Holy), etc. The members is the church. You cannot separate the
        church from the members. If the members are imperfect, the church is also imperfect. Therefore, not Holy.

        “If The Crusades did not happen, then Christianity would not be existing today”

        This statement sounds like you don’t have faith in God. Do you agree with Pope Urban II when he sent the crusade to the Holy Land? According to the dogma of the Catholic church, Popes are infallible, so his (Pope Urban II) decision on the crusade cannot be wrong. If he is right, then Jesus Christ is wrong because He is opposed to vengeance. Mt 5:39 But l say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right check,
        turn to him the other also.

      • ray

        Have you ever heard of the word “conversion”? Did you know how Emperor Constantine got converted to Christianity? By her mother named Helena which was also a convert and prayed constantly to God for his son Constantine. In 312, Constantine had a dream in which he saw a fiery cross appear in the sky, inscribed with the words, “In this sign you will conquer.” He immediately ordered that the sign of the cross be put on the shields of all his soldiers. Soon afterward, they won a decisive battle, this was the battle in the Milvian Bridge, soon after that, Constantine was named emperor of Rome and eventually merged state and religion. Because this is the reason why Jesus came to this earth to establish a church, (a visible) one that will rule in every aspect of our lives, He never intended the church to be an underground sect, a fringe group or a sub-culture forever. He wants Christianity to be the foundation of everything – Law, government, education, medicine, science, arts etc. That is why the separation of church and state is a scam orchestrated by the banksters – Rothschilds in 1798 thru it occult arm called masonry.

        St. Paul was jewish, highly educated lawyer, hated and persecuted Christians but got converted, does this mean he can never be a Christian because he was a jew and a christian hater? How about Matthew the tax collector that became Jesus’ apostle? Jesus was wildly criticize for choosing him, but He chose him to be one of his apostles. Now these are examples of sinful men that became Christ’s apostles, now why can’t Constantine be a Christian? He was selected by God to turn the tide for His church and to all its future generations. This is a lame argument. Why do you think evangelization is needed, spreading the gospel etc? – It is for sinners! If you have a church without sinners in this earth, then it is not a church.

        Mark 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
        16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

        You are saying that the church cannot be holy because it has made errors and mistakes, how about Judas betraying Jesus? He (Judas) knows that Jesus is the True Son of God / Messiah / Redeemer, so why did he still betrayed him and sold him out? Are we gonna question Christ’s divinity because of this? How about St. Paul correcting St. Peter on circumcission? This was after the Pentecost, when they all received the Holy Spirit after 40 days of Christ’s Ascension to Heaven? Are we gonna question their authority too? The word infallibility itself indicates a necessary immunity from error. When one speaks of the Church’s infallibility, one means that the Church can neither deceive nor be deceived in matters of faith and morals, It is a prerogative of the whole Church; but it belongs in one way to those who fulfill the office of teaching and in another way to those who are taught. Hence the distinction between active infallibility, by which the Church’s rulers are rendered immune from error when they teach; and passive infallibility, by which all of Christ’s faithful are preserved from error in their beliefs.Passive infallibility depends on and is caused by active infallibility: for the faithful are kept free from error in religious matters only by loyally following their rulers. Consequently, it is limited by the same restrictions as is active infallibility, and it will therefore suffice to treat only the latter. Active infallibility may be defined as follows: the privilege by which the teaching office of the Church, through the assistance of the Holy Spirit, is preserved immune from error when it defines a doctrine of faith or morals. The words through the assistance of the Holy Spirit indicate that this freedom from error is something derived; the words when it defines a doctrine of faith or morals limit this inerrancy to definite subject matter.

        “If The Crusades did not happen, then Christianity would not be existing today” – Yes that is right, I think the Church made a very wise and good decision (not perfect), because if they did not enact on anything, the world would be mostly muslim. You have to understand the circumstances at that time.

        Now let me ask you a question since you love accusing the Catholic Church of of atrocities, how many people died during the MEast wars in the last 50 years supported by evangelical christians supporting *z*i*o*n*i*s*m* under the pretense of the unbiblical/heretical “rapture”, “dispensationalism” and “end time/apocalypse” doctrines?? That is in the MILLIONS – Innocent civilians (women and children) mostly, and it is still happening right now all over the world? Now have you ever heard Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, John MacArthur, Jerry Falwell, John Hagee etc. admitting to accountability for this? NONE!! So this is another protestant/evangelical hypocrisy

      • Mike

        Who legalized christianity?

        Jesus legalized Christianity.

      • noni

        How can Jesus legalized christianity when in his lifetime, he is not a christian. There was no christianity in Jesus’ lifetime Mike. Jesus was a Jew. He was not a christian.

      • gooder1

        noni, Jesus IS Christianity. When we are baptized, we are baptized into his body, the Body of Christ. That makes us Christians (ref. Romans 6:3-4, Gal 3:7, Col 1:18, Col 2:12-13). The Church began at Pentecost, and remains with us till this day. There was no difference between the underground Church prior to Constantine, and when she was let out from under persecution by him. The Church began referring to itself as Catholic, or Universal, very early. The earliest document we have is from 106AD, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch wrote the following on his trip to Rome, where he was set to be executed: Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8:2 “Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful either to baptize, or to hold a love-feast [Liturgy] without the consent of the bishop; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that also is well pleasing unto God, to the end that whatever is done may be safe and sure.”

        Constantine’s issue was that he made Catholicism the “state religion” demanding that all join it, the good, the bad, and the ugly (sort of like it is today).

      • noni

        gooder1, I will repeat, Jesus is not a christian. He was born a Jew and died a Jew. He never resurrected. Where in time did he become a christian. You said “When we are baptized, we are baptized into his body, the Body of Christ” Wait a minute, when you said baptized into his body, you meant body of Jesus and then you continue “the body of Christ”. Do you mean, Jesus and Christ are the same. “No way Jose”. Jesus is real, Christ is invented. The priests fused them together. Don’t ask me. Ask your Bishop (bishops are priest). He knew the whole story. Make sure that the Bishop you ask is a product of Princeton U, not Georgetown U. Good luck!

      • gooder1

        noni: Christ simply means Messiah. In short, Adam & Eve were born in the grace of God, they fell from grace and were separated from the life of God when they sinned, God promised that He would one day reunite man and God. This action would require a messiah. Thus the plan of Salvation began, and we know that the messiah would come from the line of David, thus the genealogies at the beginning of the gospels. Jesus is the Messiah, it is mentioned repeatedly in Scripture. Jesus is both man and God (John 1), the joining of his human nature to his divine nature should have been enough to reunify God and man (Matt 23:37), but man rejected him, and it then required a sacrificial act. But anyway, when you see the name Jesus Christ, it means Jesus the Messiah: I’ll include for you a few

        Matthew 1: 1-16: “…12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

        Matthew 16: “…15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And
        Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And
        I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

        So we can see here that Peter’s confession of Jesus being the Messiah, triggered our Lord’s Promise that his Church would be built not only on the Messianic Profession, but also would be guided by Peter into all Truth.

      • noni

        Gooder1. You are quoting the gospel to prove your point. If the gospel is your evidence of truthfulness, try the following lines in that gospel if it can stand the test of reliability:
        1. In Matthew, you said Jacob begot Joseph, while in Luke, Heli begot Joseph. Who is telling a lie?
        2. In John 1, you said, Jesus is God and Man. Being God, Jesus can’t tell a lie. In the same gospel of John chapter 7, verse 8, Jesus told his brothers that he is not going to the feast, but in verse 10 he lied because he went to the feast anyway.
        3. In Matthew, Jesus is from Bethlehem, while in Luke he is from Nazareth.
        4. In Mark, Jesus was tempted, while in John, he was not tempted.
        5. In the oldest greek manuscript, chapter 16 of the gospel of Mark has 8 verses only, but in the Vulgate (Roman catholic ) and all the other versions have 20 verses. Where in the blue sky (christians call it heaven) are the additional 12 verses came from?
        6. And so on and so forth…….

      • gooder1

        noni:

        Matthew’s genealogy follows the line of Joseph, Luke follows Mary’s. But the genealogy wasn’t the point of my post. I was only answering your question about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah, or the “Christ.” Of course Jesus was Jewish. But we as Christians are baptized into the body of Christ, the Messiah, making us Christians. Your other challenges are merely diversions from the point that Jesus is both God and man. For example Col 2:9-12 makes all of my points, “9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.”

        Jesus is not God the Father, but rather God the Son, who took on human flesh, reuniting humanity with God. As for your statement of Jesus being a Jew, yes, as Christians we are grafted onto the Jewish vine of salvation, but not with circumcision, but the circumcision of Baptism, where the Holy Spirit joins us to the human body of Christ, it joins us to his humanity, which by default joins us to his divinity. Here let me have Paul explain. Romans 11 “13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as first fruits is holy, so is the whole lump; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off [i.e., some of the Jews], and you, a wild olive shoot [i.e., a Gentile] were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 You will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

        At the Last Supper
        Thomas came to realize that Jesus was God, for when he put his hands in Jesus’ side, he proclaimed “my Lord and my God” John 20:28. The literal Greek reads, “the Lord of me, and the God of me.”

        Of course all this requires Faith,and if you haven’t any, that is fine, but at least see that the argument is solid. You don’t have to believe it; that is up to you.

      • noni

        Gooder!
        Your faith has blinded you. God has created you as an intelligent being. Don’t waste that intellect, instead use it to free yourself from the clutches of the “men of cloth”. Truth can only be found thru reason and that truth will set you free. Don’t be bound by the doctrines and dogmas invented by the “men of cloth” . They don’t believe in what they preached to you. They are not interested in you. They interested in your money. This is what the church is all about. If you read the bible, read it with your mind, not with your heart. No wonder, in the opening line of your reply you said that Matthew talks about the genealogy of Joseph, while Luke is to Mary. There is no such thing as genealogy of Mary. If you do what l said (read the bible with your mind)
        you will discover the real MacCoy.

      • gooder1

        noni,

        The only reason we have a New Testament, is because it was written by men of Faith, and sorted out by men of Faith. And these men of Faith were part of the Church our Lord established, Who said that the “gates of hell” would never prevail against this same Church (Matt 16:17). In other words, when proclaiming doctrines such as Peter’s messianic doctrine stated by Peter in Matthew 16, then those would be protected. It doesn’t mean that the church would be sinless, or that humans of low intelligence would not become priests and bishops, it only means that when proclaiming doctrine, the Holy Spirit would protect it. The things you bring up about the genealogies is not important. One follows the males in Mary’s line, the other the males in Joseph’s line. They both are correct. And certainly you will find some typos and manuscript issues, as the originals have rotted to dust a millennium ago. We only have copies. But to the best of the Church’s ability, the Bible as we read it today is very reliable, and conveys the Truth. The Church has never been only about the Bible. The Church, however, has always been about holding fast to the Traditions it was handed, whether by word of mouth, or by letter (2Thess 2:15). And we can trace all of those Traditions back to the First Century, at least in their infancy form. For example, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, in about 106 AD wrote, “to the Church [in Rome] beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ,
        our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans paragraph 1). In this we can clearly see that Jesus was known to be God from the very beginning, as Bishop Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of John the Apostle.

      • ray

        LOL!!! “If you do what l said (read the bible with your mind) you will discover the real MacCoy.”

        Where in the bible that says that we have to listen to what you say… LOL!! This is your personal theology being imposed to us!!! I thought you believed in sola scriptura ie personal opinion, and now you are imposing your authority on us LOL!!! FYI – The Catholic Church gave you the bible, and Mary does not have any geneaology?? If there is no Mary, then there would be no Jesus!!!

        I said stop reading stop reading the bible, you are clueless on what you are saying. LOL!!!!

      • noni

        If you don’t use your mind and reason in arguing your point, it doesn’t make sense continuing this conversation.

      • ray

        Use your mind??? LOL!!! Look at your feeble reasoning, try too read all your comments, its not even nursery, it is a combination of biased anti-catholic assertion and shallow reasoning.

      • noni

        You are using the word “HELL” again (evangHellical) You catholics are fond of inventing words. How many times did l tell you that there is no “HELL”. It is a scare tactics. You are no different from your mentors (the men in cloth). No wonder there is an exodus of catholics to other religious persuasion in America. Secularism is growing at an unprecedented pace in recent years. Check your statistics.

      • gooder1

        Noni, you are correct that there is no word,”hell” in the Bible; it is often used in translations, but inserted; however, there are many descriptions of it:

        It is everlasting:

        “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
        Matt 25:46

        Unquenchable fire:

        Mark 9:”43 And if your hand causes you to sin,[a] cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell,[b] to the unquenchable fire.[c] 45 And if your foot causes you to sin,[d] cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.[e][f] 47 And if your eye causes you to sin,[g] pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell.”

        Warning about the devil, who can destroy of both body and soul:

        Matt 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

        It is a place of suffering:

        Matt 13:42 “40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

        And the list goes on and on…

        If you do not believe in the scriptures, then you have every right not to believe in hell, but if you are a member of a Christian church, then you in a sense are looking the other way when it comes to the reality of hell. You cannot read this stuff, and ignore it.

        For a long time I had a hard time understanding being “free” in Christ (the truth shall set you free), but at the same time having to stay pure, and doing all we can to avoid sin. But when reading the above passages, one gets the clear sense that if you are close to Christ, you are free from sin; if you are far from Christ, you are steeped in sin, to the point where it blinds you. So freedom in Christ, is freedom from sin, and receiving the grace that helps us resist temptation to sin. Whereas, secular freedom, which is opposed to Christ, can lead us to sin, and to hell if unrepented. At least that’s the way I read it.

      • noni

        You are using the word Christ several times, such as “close to Christ”, far from Christ”, “freedom in Christ”, opposed to Christ”. The mere mention of these phrases indicates that this Christ is a person. Now, may l ask you if you really understand what this Christ really is? Let’s be honest. The common understanding of the word Christ was a messiah found in the old testament (a questionable book) as a prophesy to save humanity (from what?) and attached to a man named Jesus (new testament writer’s invention) of Palestine in order to create a religion (christianity), whose adherents (catholics, protestant, etc.) caused an untold misery to humanity (read your history books). So the Jesus (no birthdate) of Palestine was fused with the messiah of the Hebrew bible to form the “Jesus Christ” of the christian religion. Please check into the inner recesses of your mind if you really, truly, honestly know this “Christ”.

      • gooder1

        noni:

        As for hell, well, I guess we’ll all find that one out when we breath our last. You might want to check out “Tortured in Hell & Lived to Tell” or “Shawn Weed’s Hell Testimony (full)” on You Tube. Those two are must see videos for those who do not believe in God, or Hell. As for Jesus, well he is also referenced in five extant historical books of the time, as well: Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, the Babylonian Talmud, and Lucian. So I myself see no reason to deny Jesus, or my Faith just because it all occurred 2000 years ago. In fact we have people today who are already asserting that the founders of our country were only a myth, and that the Constitution is a mere forgery that was designed to control people. And I must admit that after reading your post, I myself am wondering if the Roman Empire ever truly existed, or whether Julius Caesar was a real man, or just a mythical character; I mean we have to wonder if the whole thing was just a fairy tale. Hey, like they say the victors write the history books, so we must assume that great liberties most certainly were taken when recording that history. As for me, and as for you, well our realities are here and now. Judge for yourself, or as Jesus once said, judge the tree by its fruits: and since God has been systematically removed from our society, schools, and families, there has been nothing but war, gangs, infighting, crime, chaos, anarchy, & terror. I don’t know about you, but I now have to lock my house at night. I have to pay cash at the gas station to avoid my credit card being skimmed at the pump, because some person who does not believe in God has decided it is okay to steal my information, etc. etc. Where’s it all going? Well, to me, it would seem that in the past 10 years, or so, hell has opened up, the demons unchained, and they are blazing through the world tempting everyone to do everything opposed to God and his Kingdom.

      • JuliePurple

        Near death experiences are considered by many health care professionals to be as reliable as dreams, and from essentially the same source: the chemicals and stored memories in the brain.
        About your references:
        Tacitus (lived AD 56 – after 117): the strongest evidence is that he was merely repeating what he was told by Christians.
        Pliny the Younger (AD 61 – c.113): mentions Christians, saying they are harmless, but have “depraved, excessive superstition”.
        Josephus (AD 37 – c.100): Many reputable scholars think there is excellent reason to suppose that the references to Jesus were added and amended by later Christians.
        Lucian (AD 125 – after 180): mentions Christians and their beliefs, saying, “all this they take on faith”.
        The Babylonian Talmud: scholars dispute whether the references are to Jesus.
        None of the references you cite lived during Jesus’ lifetime, so could not possibly have been eyewitnesses. And they only state what the Christians believed; they do not say they believed it themselves. The evidence is that a man named Jesus existed, but not that he was in any way extraordinary, except as an influence on the Christians, and as a political nuisance.
        Saying that the founders of our contry and the Constitution and Julius Caesar were a myth is simply being disingenuous. Unlike Jesus, the founding fathers of this country and Julius Caesar have not only contemporary references, but also works that they themselves had written.
        “God” has not been removed from society. What has changed is that adherents of a given religion are not allowed to force their views and practices on other people. (We’ll ignore, for the moment, the Hobby Lobby debacle. :-) Many people who break laws are religious (remember the Mafia?). Many compassionate, ethical people are not religious. As Steven Weinberg (1979 Nobel Prize in Physics) said, “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Yes, we all pick and choose our realities. As for the works of Julius Caesar, well we do not have the original autographs, but merely a few manuscripts, or copies of what may or may not have been real works by the man, if he ever really existed. If we had the originals, we might be able to discern handwriting consistency of all the supposed works, but we do not. So they could very well have been pseudonymous, or works attributed to a mythical man. As for the various historical works I cited concerning Jesus, well of course they would reference oral traditions, or oral communications, as that was what was commonly used back then. But it does show that both secular, and religious works both exist that at least reference Jesus. In other words, there is a broader consensus, with not just the gospels referencing him. As for whether the founders of this country were real men, and not just mythical characters, well I do believe they were real. But in a thousand years or so, the common thought will probably be that they were only mythical, especially once all the original documents fade to oblivion (and they are about halfway gone already). As for near death experiences, I agree, that they may be associated with brain activity after the person’s body has ceased to function, or they may not be. We simply do not know. But I will say one thing, those two videos I referenced most definitely have two very terrified men describing what they truly believe happened to them. I find it interesting that God Almighty always gives us about 99,9 percent of believable stuff to evaluate, but always leaves a fraction for us to take on Faith. I guess if he just popped into our living rooms, then it wouldn’t require much faith after that.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder,
        The fact of people having been terrified by their experiences is no sort of proof. Individuals in mental institutions are also terrified by their experiences, even though those experiences exist only in their minds. It is sad for all of them, of course, but doesn’t prove anything.

        Scholarly consensus is that an individual named Jesus (or Yeshua, or whatever the local version was) did exist. It also holds that he was executed by the Roman state for being a political dissident. But as for the claims of
        special divinity and miracles, that is a different story. There is not independent verification of those claims. There is only mention that the *Christians* believed them.

        I find it is a common ruse among those who wish to support their argument for the existence of Jesus to call
        into question the existence of Julius Caesar, but I hope you are not seriously questioning the actual existence of Julius Caesar. Before you make any kind of statement like that, do your own research and check out, for example, the “historicity of Julius Caesar”. It’s quite easy to verify. And note, I am not disputing the existence of a man called Jesus, but only the supernatural claims about him. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. To say that it is god’s plan so that we can show our faith is exactly what I would expect of a group which is unable to prove their claims. Let me put it this way: you wouldn’t believe the claims for the miraculous deeds of, say, Apollo or Krishna or the Buddha, would you? Why not? Don’t you have faith?

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Yes, I would agree with you that many people in mental institutions do indeed see things, and believe they truly are seeing those very things. However, the people I am referring to all have had a common experience: they all died, their hearts stopped, but regardless of the state of their bodies, they believe they continued on, at first seeing their bodies lying on the floor, and wondering how it was they could be seeing themselves, etc. So I do believe there is a difference. And of course there are many many more. For example a Catholic priest had a similar experience, dying in a car accident, and suddenly finding himself before the judgment seat, being sent to hell (that’s another video on You Tube called “Father Steven Scheier’s Judgment Experience”). Hey, I’m not sure whether these are true, or not, but these people believe they are true, so who am I to judge?

        As for Caesar, well I did not know that others have used the same argument, but yes, you are correct, I do believe history has its place, and who am I to judge whether it is true, or not. But all scholars have their bias, whether they are agnostics, and dismissive of Jesus being a real person, or whether Julius Caesar actually existed. Nobody comes to the table unbiased; we must all keep that in mind when reading “history.”

        As for what I believe: well, I believe there is the kingdom of goodness, and God reigns over it, and there is the kingdom of darkness, hatred, and despair. And I believe the evil spirits reign over that one. As for Buddha, or Krishna, well I believe they were both men who either aligned themselves with either the kingdom of goodness, or the kingdom of darkness, of which, I do not know.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder,
        Yes, there are differences, in that the people you mentioned were clinically dead, but still their experiences could well have been just the workings of their own minds. (And who knows what the physical state of the mentally ill patients was?) So we agree that their experiences are not a clear proof of anything that can be called religious, yes? If so, then how about let’s agree to leave questionable documentation out of the mix, then, okay? Because we’d just waste time on debating its reliability.

        There is a rather large difference between whether Julius Caesar existed and whether Jesus actually performed miracles. One is well within the range of human activity; one is clearly not. Note, please, once again I am not calling into question whether Jesus the individual existed. I am debating whether he performed miracles or was of supernatural origin.

        As for kingdoms, I believe there is only one, and it’s called “the universe”. It’s a mix of many different qualities. And yes, the Buddha was a man, and if you
        have done any research at all in unbiased sources, you’d realize that he was a very good man, indeed. As for Krishna, that is way further back in time, and so the story has more myth to it, but apparently he was a man who was a sort of advisor to the Pandavas, and taught
        ethics to the royal family. I sincerely doubt he was a minion of the “kingdom of darkness”, however. :-)

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        I would agree with you that there is no way to prove that Jesus performed miracles back in the First Century. All that is written is merely a summary of his life, along with some of the things he did, whether miracles, or just his teachings. It is up to us to evaluate the possibility of whether they truly happened, or not. I would think that the most startling of all, would have been his raising of Lazarus three days after he died (John 11:1-46). But since that happened so long ago, there is no way to actually prove it. That said, we could look to modern day miracles, ones that can be scientifically verified. Tell you what, copy and paste the exact wording below, and Google it:

        FM122- 7/14/14 – Colleen and John Willard – Mary TV

        It should be the first Google listing. Click on it, and the second video down the page should be “Fruit of Medjugorje Episode One Hundred Twenty Two July 14th, 2014.” Watch that episode, and let me know what you think.

        I know the Church has not approved of this apparition site, but the story is very interesting, and apparently documented.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        For some reason, our computer won’t play a lot of videos; it keeps telling us to update the flash drive, and check to see that the flash drive is enabled, and I do that, but it still doesn’t work. So I wasn’t able to see the video. But I did look up a number of other sites about
        Medjugorje, and a lot of people think the Medjugorje affair is a fraud. It may well be documented, but by whom, and with what agenda? I’m pretty sure that you and I already discussed the Medjugorje affair, didn’t we? I don’t see any need to rehash it.

        About Lazarus: yes, it’s true that there’s no way to verify
        it now, but there have been cases of people spontaneously reviving after having been declared dead. It’s called “Lazarus syndrome”, and while rare, is still a recognized medical condition. And there isn’t any obvious religious component to it. Just saying.
        As for modern day “miracles”, as you put it, there are cases of spontaneous remission of various diseases, again, without any obvious religious component. Just because reasons aren’t scientifically understood yet does not mean that those occurrences aren’t perfectly natural.
        And about the whole miracle thing: why are they even necessary? If the system doesn’t make sense without
        them, then there’s something wrong with the system.
        In other words, a religious system should be based on common sense, compassion, respect, ethical
        behaviour, and reality. Because if it’s not grounded in what is real, it all eventually falls apart.

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Actually, the video I asked you to watch is not really a testament to Medjugorje, as it is really more of a personal story of a woman named Coleen Willard who had an inoperable brain tumor, which was systematically shutting down her body functions one by one. Effectively she had only a few weeks to live: her condition was apparently fully documented by the Mayo Clinic, and any cure was out of the question. Her prognosis was death within weeks. And … through a series of timely events, she ended up going to Medjugorje for a final spiritual trip, all to the protest of her physician. She wanted to die in peace, and meet God in good standing. Then something happened during her trip to Medjugorje while sitting in a wheelchair at mass in the church she felt something occurring to her body, then suddenly all within moments, she found herself in good health. She was even able to climb cross mountain the next day. Her return later in the week to the Mayo Clinic found her being informed by her physician that her condition simply could not be, that her condition was one that simply does not fix itself. Anyway, there are many more interesting things in the video that have you saying to yourself: Wow! At any rate, we can both agree there is no way to prove that the things mentioned in the Bible truly happened. Belief that the events in those scriptures requires an element of Faith. In fact, when one studies the ways of God, the conclusion always seems to have a common thread: Faith. When studying the Michelangelo painting of Adam & God, you see Adam reaching up, while the Father is reaching down, then their fingers touch. And that is really how it is: we make a move towards him, and He responds, He effectively reaches back down like in the painting. Simply stated, that is how He is. Would I like God to be different? Well maybe in some ways, but that is his nature. Anyway, I was hoping to get your take on the video, because it is one that I found compelling to watch. There are not many medical miracles you can refer to that clearly have a direct connection with God that are fully documented (other than people claiming they prayed for a cure), but I believe this one fits the bill. So, if you get your video operating, check it out. In fact, there are many more videos on that same Mary TV site that are also interesting, each in its own way; just google “Fruit of Medjugorje Archive” and the first listing should be a library of videos. The fifth one down in that library is the one I mentioned here. And as for Medjugorge being a fraud, well, maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell, as the “visionaries” supposedly have received knowledge of certain future events for mankind, and will reveal each of them prior to their occurrence. But digging deeper into the fraud claims, One man supposedly did some major damage when he waged a full blown campaign to destroy and discredit Medjugoge, and succeeded in many ways. He was a successful multi-millionaire from the west coast, whose wife had become an avid Medjugorge fan; she later left him due to the mental abuse she was apparently receiving from him over it. He told her if she did not return to him, he would destroy Medjugorge, and did a pretty good job doing just that. So … we will see. Anyway, if God does not exist as you claim, then I would ask you to put him to the test. In fact, I would challenge you to directly ask his Mother Mary to prove to you that this stuff if true, that the whole story of Jesus is true. If you honestly ask Mary, and get no answer, then fine, you then have every right to dismiss Christianity. So …why not give it a try? Ask Mary to prove to you that her Son is real. I was in the same boat, and asked her to prove to me in a backhanded way that all was true, that God actually existed, and suddenly my life took a major twist that I did not expect.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        First, try to remember that I never claimed that god does not exist. What I said was that there is insufficient evidence about it either way. Agnostic, not atheist. (I did say, however, that the god as depicted in the bible is simply not credible. That’s quite a bit different from saying that there is no god at all. There might be.)
        There’s nothing wrong with your suggestion (i.e., asking for proof from Mary), but that isn’t conclusive, either. Remember a while back I wrote about hallucinations and so forth?
        It’s great that Ms. Willard had a spontaneous remission. But that can happen for any one of a number of reasons. (Read Bernie Siegel’s book, “Love, Medicine, and Miracles”; Dr. Seigel was a surgeon at Yale New Haven hospital who worked a lot with terminally ill patients.) Here’s an excerpt from one of Dr. Siegel’s
        books: “The psychotherapist Ernest Rossi has observed that ‘our daily and hourly life experiences, sensations,
        thoughts, images, emotions and behavior can modulate gene expression and neurogenesis in ways that actually can change the physical structure and functioning of our brain.’”
        And a man’s campaign to discredit Medjogorje isn’t proof, either. Sometimes people work to discredit things that *should* be discredited. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In other words, it requires proof that it could not possibly have occurred by any other means. And again, if a system requires miracles for its validity, how good is the system?
        Just to let you know, I’m not going to spend time looking at religious videos. It’s great that people have things that mean a lot to them like that, but all it proves is that *they* believe. And once again, we already discussed
        Medjugorje.

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Yes, you are correct that healings can and do happen every day, and that there is no distinct way of proving that any at all, or even some, are miraculous. As I alluded to earlier, it seems to me that God purposefully leaves an open end somewhere in every–what appears to be supernatural–event requiring us to make that leap of Faith. And I do get it that you have a faith of sorts (you explained that in your earlier write up), and that you do attribute many things, possibly even the beginnings of our planet to an unknown god. And that is good; so I’ll leave it there. But I have heard of many people who have put God to the test, by either asking him, or the Blessed Mother, to prove his existence. And in many cases, the answers came very quickly. Maybe not a voice in the head, but either sudden life changes or timely experiences that bring that person to come to a conclusion of sorts. But some do claim to have received locutions, or inner clarity. My thought on that is God gives each person the answer he/she needs. And as for Medjugorje, as I said earlier, that apparition site will either prove itself, or condemn itself, as those visionaries will announce certain future events before they happen, and if they do not happen, then it will be self determined without any need for proclamation from the Church, or any other source. But as for judging the tree by its fruits, well, people go there, they pray, the masses are packed, the people go to holy hours, they go to confession, they sing to the rooftops, they love their neighbors, their lives change for the better, and so forth. The Catholic Church in the rest of the world could only dream of such devotion to God. So if a multi-millionaire decides to vent his fury on Medjugorje, spending large sums of his money to destroy it through deceitful misinformation, and false allegations, then hey, if it is of God, it will ultimately weather the storm,

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Not a single one of the things you mentioned is indisputably supernatural. To say that all of the things you mentioned are the work of some supernatural force is to diminish the wonder that is in front of our eyes all
        the time. Why is it necessary to look for “miracles”, when the natural world is so full of wonder and mystery? It’s like looking at a place like the Grand Canyon and thinking it is so marvelous because “God made it that way”, and not realizing that the wonder is how completely natural forces can do such amazing things. It’s like seeing a sculpture by Michelangelo and thinking how wonderful it is that “God inspired him”, and not respecting the years and years of hard work and focus that was necessary to acquire the skill. It’s seeing a painting by Raphael and only contemplating its spiritual meaning, and totally missing its beauty of line, form, and color. It’s seeing the work of any great artist and saying, “Oh, God gave the talent there”, instead of realizing the years of work it takes to develop the skills. It’s seeing something totally breathtaking, and diminishing it by not seeing how completely natural forces can do such wonderful things. It’s loving your wife because she gave you offspring, instead of seeing and loving her just for
        herself. In other words, it’s looking for what it *means*, as opposed to seeing what it *is*. Is this universe not enough of a wonder that you need to search for more? What kind of sad lack makes a person so dissatisfied
        with the wonders that surround us? I can understand that if a person who is destitute, he’ll look to fantasy for
        comfort. But when a person’s reality is adequate for reasonable survival, why does he still seek such fantasy? Is it because it’s too hard to find the answers
        within himself? It is very easy to continue the pretense of attributing everything to some mysterious, magical
        entity. You don’t have to think too much that way. It’s even easier when you go for answers to difficult questions to people who are professional answerers: i.e., priests, rabbis, imams, monks, and so forth. Of course, their answers are *their* answers. If you did the work yourself, you’d find the answers that apply to you. But hey, you don’t have to think for yourself that way, and really thinking deeply is *hard*, right? It’s so much easier to say, “It’s a miracle!”, rather than to do the investigative work necessary to discover the real answer. Here’s a wonderful quote from the amazing Terry Pratchett: “Humans! They lived in a world where the grass continued to be green and the sun rose
        every day and flowers regularly turned into fruit, and what impressed them? Weeping statues. And wine made out of water! A mere quantum-mechanistic tunnel
        effect, that’d happen anyway if you were prepared to wait zillions of years. As if the turning of sunlight into wine, by means of vines and grapes and time and enzymes, wasn’t a thousand times more impressive and happened all the time…”
        By always looking beyond, you miss what is in front of your eyes. And by thinking you already have the answers, you stop looking for something real.

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Why would I ever want to diss anything, or any of the things you mentioned as merely the works of God. I remember the time I drove across the country, and was amazed at how beautiful everything was: man, the mountains, the plains, the rivers, the valleys, whew! It was beauty for the eyes to behold, and doesn’t get any better than that. And contrary to what you assert, I do not believe that God “created” these things in the sense that they were predetermined to be the way they are. No I believe that God set everything into motion, and this is how things turned out. As for life itself, well, all life requires DNA, and that had to come from somewhere. And I do not believe that DNA just self generated. That I believe was a gift from God, when he breathed into living beings the breath of life. But these plants, animals, and humankind, etc. are all smart: they change & adapt to their environment through the natural selection process. I believe you miss the point I make: there is true beauty in everything: the natural development of nature, through hard work, through natural actions such as fermentation which give us the fruit of the vine, etc.; it is all beautiful. Why would I want to disagree with you? However man is never satisfied. We continue to look beyond ourselves. I remember how awestruck I was the first time I learned that when we look into the sky, we are looking into the past. That, for all we know, the stars have all gone out, and we just continue to see the light they once gave off. It is indeed a wild thought. And it is even more wild to consider how we are on a planet that is within a solar system, which resides within a galaxy called the Milky Way, that has at least 100 billion other stars in it. On top of that there are approximately 100 billion other galaxies, as well. It is all mind boggling. And I do believe in the Big Bang, but I find it so improbable that all the matter and energy of the entire universe was packed into an infinitesimally small point (the size of a pin, or something), and then this super dense point exploded, expanding outward to form the 100 billion trillion stars and even more planets. That to me requires a leap of Faith. So what is the difference if I believe that there is a God, who initiated the Big Bang, but instead created all matter out of nothing, effectively doing the same thing as the Big Bang theorists believe, but cannot explain (all matter packed into a pin head? come on). I find my understanding to be on as much solid ground as the Atheistic scientists are standing. Anyway, regardless how you see it, if the Big Bang occurred the way Atheistic science describes it, we are in a highly unstable state of existence. All could change in an instant. All matter could revert to another form at any time: new dimensions of time and space could spontaneously develop through a type of dimensional skew, leaving us in no man’s land. In fact, if we think about how unstable this situation of ours is, it is scary. We are on a rock in space, revolving around a sun, with a paper thin atmosphere containing the Oxygen we need to survive, all held in place by gravity, And if a large enough asteroid were to hit us, all would end: our Oxygen levels, our weather patterns, our food, all of it. In the same vein, but alternate sense, if we look at it from the divine perspective, if God created everything out of nothing, then he would have to continue holding it in existence, or it would revert back to what it once was: nothing. So either way, we have a lot to be thankful for. Anyway, I do not go around looking for divine explanations for everything, but if God truly exists, and has, over the years, gone out of his way to communicate with us, then why shouldn’t I listen? And if it all seems reasonable, then why not establish a relationship with the very Person who is responsible for all things as we know them. I do know that in my own life, God has let me know quite clearly that a) He exists, and b) that he really cares for us, and, c) that He has a sense of humor. BTW: I do like the way you write. Your style is enjoyable to read. Take care.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Thank you for the very nice compliment about my writing. It’s very kind of you. (I was an English major in college before I switched my major to Fine Arts. :-) )
        But I must apologize for not being more clear. We had been talking about miracles. I never said that you do not appreciate the beauty in the things themselves nor the wonders in the universe. (It is lovely that you do appreciate them!) What I said was that to attribute
        the greatness of these things to a supernatural cause is to miss the real causes. Let me try again.

        Do you remember reading that people used to think that diseases were due to demons or hexes or some such? And that to treat the disease, one needed to pray or perform some ritual? By believing that, people neglected to look for and deal with the real causes: i.e.,
        disease-carrying rodents, germs, lack of sanitation, and so forth. By believing the cause was supernatural, people neglected to look for real causes and real cures. Of course, several of your examples are instances of just that. Many people still look for magical cures instead of trying to find something real. The fact of some people having been healed is as relevant as saying that by casting out a demon, a person was healed of a disease. Spontaneous remission or natural healing *does* often happen. If it occurs when a person is at a place that people consider holy, the credit goes to the place, not to the person’s internal workings. I would not be surprised if scientists eventually figured out the reason for the healings that people now think were miraculous. That’s what I’m saying: to claim that mystical forces did the healing is to neglect to look for something real that might be used to heal others.

        About the Big Bang… to understand the scientific viewpoint, a great deal of understanding of science is necessary. To dismiss the theory without really understanding the science behind it is unfair. Calling them “atheistic scientists” is also unfair. They may or may not be atheists, but if they are good scientists, they would not let their beliefs determine their attitude towards their research. One need not be an atheist to be a good scientist and understand and support the theories behind the Big Bang. It is possible to say that all matter was once contained in a tiny point and then exploded, and so forth, and simply attribute that event to some divine entity. It is equally possible to say that it happened on its own, due to perfectly natural forces. See, that’s why I’m agnostic. There simply isn’t enough information available to say either way.

        And who knows, we just *might* revert to another form or dimension! (We might even like it better, if we are still around to appreciate it. :-)) But yeah, we do need to watch out for asteroids. :O

        *Has* God gone out of his way to communicate with us? Or is it just mankind’s mind making things up? There’s no way to prove it either way. I should start
        another thread about that; I have some ideas about the topic — not for how to prove it, though.

      • gooder1

        Very good, Julie. I see your full perspective now. And you are certainly correct in describing how the earlier archaic forms of medicine had missed many of the real attributive causes of certain illnesses. And I would agree that as we progress, we will find more and more reasons for illnesses, and cures for them. One day we might even discover how the brain works. Yes we have mapped it out, and know how the functions interact, but the rest is a still a bit of a mystery. As for the universe, well I still think the abstract scientific theories for its creation are a bit of a stretch. When referring in your write up to archaic medicine and its shortfalls, well we also need to view to modern quantum theory physics in the same regard. That discipline has a long long way to go. When we gaze out at the stars at night, we see our universe, and the many stars embodied within it. But we must ask as well, is our great universe only one of many universes? Or does our universe exist inside an even larger universe. Hey, the sky’s the limit. Anyway, keep an open mind. Some day God almighty might just reach out and touch you. And if that happens, be sure to reach back.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder.
        I thank you for making the effort to understand.
        About the mysteries of the brain. See, that’s the thing. We *don’t* fully understand the brain. Hallucinations are due to something in the brain. How to determine absolutely whether mystical visions and experiences are not simply a variety of hallucination? I’ve *had* several experiences that seemed to me to be mystical. They were simply sublime, totally peaceful, wonder-inducing, ecstatic. But were they due to a divine touch, or were they simply due to brain chemistry? Does an extended period of deep meditation produce chemicals in the body that make one feel as though in the presence of the divine? I don’t know.
        I would love to know that they really were divine experiences. That would be so totally cool. But I have to be honest and say I really don’t know. To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, “Never be diverted from the truth by what you would like to believe.”

        About quantum physics: how much science background do you have? Are you qualified to dismiss its findings?

        Larger universes, many universes… who knows? It’s possible. :-)

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        I’m a Chemistry guy. But I work with physicists, and
        they agree that quantum theory gets pretty abstract. That aside, I don’t
        think we can post web links on this site, but Google the following
        words:

        Medjugorje blind woman Joelle Beuret healed

        The
        first listing should be it. Apparently this woman was totally blind for
        42 years, then healed at St. James Church in Medjugorje. She is foreign,
        so the English is a little broken, but in her post script letters at the end she was apparently
        having it looked at medically. I’m not sure if she had corneal damage,
        or nerve damage, or some other reason for the blindness. But supposedly,
        all changed during her trip to Medjugorje. And from what I can tell by
        her reaction, it is probably what one would expect if suddenly being
        able to see after decades of blindness (i.e., dizziness, sickness,
        etc.). I’m not sure if it is legit, but I’m sure a little digging would
        clear things up. I listed this only because you wanted proof other than typical bodily healings that can oftentimes correct themselves. And this, if it is true, would be more of a chronic one, the type that doesn’t usually correct itself. And even if it did, the timing is awfully coincidental.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Well, regarding the Medjugorje issue, there’s a bit too much “if this is true” and “if this is legit” for me there, not to mention the part about where it doesn’t *usually* correct itself. Anyhow, good for her that now she can see, however it came about. But really, can we leave the issue of Medjugorje now? The data is unreliable, at best.
        For quantum physics, there’s a huge difference between it being a relatively young science and “pretty abstract”, and its being bogus. The thing about science is that when it doesn’t know, it keeps looking. It acknowledges when it’s been mistaken, and looks again. Religion thinks it knows, and so doesn’t bother looking.

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,
        As for St. James Catholic Church in Medjugorje, well it is a Catholic Church, with Catholic priests. In that sense their church is no different than my church. They are both Catholic churches, with fully ordained priests in apostolic succession. I try to weed out and separate the things that are going on outside of St. James Catholic church, with the things that have gone on inside the church itself. And … well, if our Lord has chosen St. James’s Catholic Church in Medjugorje as a place where special graces flow, then who am I to judge against it? As for science versus God, well, if I tip my scale slightly to the “God” side of things, then that is my choice. Conversely you tend to tip your scale toward the science side of things, and that is your right and privilege. I do believe, however, that I am very reasonable and open minded, and will side with scientific explanations wherever I find those explanations to be fair and reasonable. But when “statistical” science such as quantum theory is used to explain things that are beyond explanation, then they are no better than the person who says, “God has given us more than we have the ability to evaluate.” So, just as I am open to the possibility that science has discovered many things, and has opened our eyes to many exciting truths, giving us clear and reasonable explanations for many of the things we see in our midst, I would also ask you as well to be open minded the other way: that God can and might intervene in our lives when prayers are asked of Him. If a woman who was blind for 42 years, now sees, or if another woman who had a severed spine from an automobile accident, with total nerve damage and x-rays to prove it, now walks, and if these so called healings all occurred in St. James Catholic Church in Medjugorje, then who am I to call them, and their doctors, deceitful fabricators? I don’t have that right. What I have found is that Christians have no problem when science gives them explanations that are fair and reasonable. But when it is the other way around, well, there is an insurmountable brick wall to get over. Anyway, I use the terms “if true,” and “if legitimate,” only because I was not there to experience first hand any of those events. But supposedly (there’s another word) the MIR Center in Medjugorje has fully documented over 600 clinically attested “healings” that go beyond the capability of current medical science. I for one would like to read through those files to see the medical statements, X-rays, nature of the illnesses, etc.., of those “healings,” and if I believe they reach the level of supernatural, then I will cease to use words such as “if true,” or “if legitimate.”

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Nowhere did I say that the people in the Medjugorje affair are deceitful. They could be sincere, and mistaken. I’m just saying that it is possible that there is a scientific explanation for it; science is still learning. It doesn’t claim to know everything, and is open to learning… somewhat more than you-know-what. :-D
        I’d like to know the statistics of those healings. If they’re like those of Lourdes, the number of healings at Lourdes are no greater than statistical probability of spontaneous remission. But by now you know what I think about Medjugorje. I’m going to ignore it henceforth, because it seems we’re just repeating ourselves about it.

        I have a sneaky suspicion that just about everybody has the opinion that they themselves are reasonable and open minded. You think you are, I think I am, and no doubt many screaming bonkers insane people think the same of themselves, too. Just sayin’. :-)

        Yes, *some* Christians believe scientific explanations when they are “fair and reasonable”, but some don’t. I’m sure you’ve heard of the Creation Museum? Enough said.

        I really do wonder why the emphasis on “miraculous” events. Is it that the message isn’t strong enough on its own? It seems to me that if the message were strong enough on its own, people would focus on that instead of things that may very well not be true, and at best, are difficult, if not impossible, to prove.

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,
        The only reason for bringing up miraculous healings, is that you wanted something other than just the Bible as a reason to consider the reality of God in our present world. As an agnostic, though, the existence of God is certainly not out of the question for you; … tell you what, let’s assume for a minute that God is real, and that he caused the Big Bang, causing matter to hurl outward, coalescing into galaxies, solar systems, planets and moons. And … that when the spherical mass we are now living on began to cool down, with waters ebbing, and atmospheric conditions becoming reasonable enough for habitation, we’ll say that God infused it with the breath of life (DNA), which led to herbal life, then microbes, to bacteria, which led to sea creatures, which led to land and air creatures, which further led to animals of the biped sort, which eventually developed to the point where God decided it was time for man to depart from the strict instinctive nature infused within all animals, and instead began a new race with a mind to think; this probably started with the birth of one man; we’ll call that man Adam. And this man soon began to ponder things, to choose things: whether to eat, or not to eat, whether to enjoy the scenery, or go out and hunt, etc. And when this man had become frustrated with all the other “humans” in his midst, the ones that lived more like an instinctive wolf pack than individuals with perspicacity, he called out to anyone who would listen, refraining over and over that he needed someone to think as he thought, to do more than just wake up, kill, eat, go to sleep, then do it all again tomorrow. Then suddenly, after much frustration, he was confronted by a person who called himself God, who could communicate with Adam, knew his thoughts ,understood his primitive language & outward expressions. This was such a relief to Adam that he was filled with joy, expressing repeatedly in his simplistic ways that he was sick of having pets for friends, and that he needed another like him. And in response to this, the being who called himself God led Adam away from his domain to another region where there was another person with the same problem, and upon meeting her, a unique interaction began. Later, Adam learned that this person called herself Eve. This began a primitive love affair, which led to having children of the same genetic type, being both physically and mentally advanced. This new race ultimately separated itself from the primitive ones, and then ultimately survived by means of gauging the weather, and preparing for bad times. Whereas, the primitive ones were caught off guard time and again, ultimately leading to their extinction. And through it all, Adam & Eve would continually call out to the being known as God, getting help and consolation when they needed it most, learning more and more with each interaction. And as this early society began to grow, along with the good it embraced, problems crept in as well: evil thoughts, jealousy, thievery, and the like. Thus began separation of groups, theft, murder and wholesale destruction. Things weren’t so innocent anymore. Thus the being called God would intervene to bring peace. And on it went.
        Well this creation story, if God was omitted from it, squares quite well with the scientific presentation of the beginnings of life. On the other hand, it also squares quite well within the figurative language of the creation story in the Book of Genesis. The only real difference is that religion attributes the Breath of Life (DNA & RNA) as a gift of God; whereas, science, attributes the creation of those proteins as a spontaneous action through random grouping of particles along with a lightening strike. To me, either way requires a leap of faith.
        And getting back to the original intent of my post (sorry for the detour): if God were to truly exist, how would you describe that God? Nice? Not so nice? Evil? Good? What’s your take on that? And what do you feel it would be like to meet that God if that being were to reveal itself to you?

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Yes, I did say that the bible is not a reliable source of information, but neither are accounts of so-called miracles. If you’ll look back, though, you’ll see that what I said was that I don’t believe that humans have the ability to accurately determine whether or not god exists yet. We haven’t evolved enough, and/or science has not developed enough to come to any accurate conclusion about it. It is not *possible* to know yet. Will it ever be? I don’t know.

        My background is in visual arts and language, not science. But I looked at an article by some people at the Madame Curie Bioscience Database and from what I understood, DNA did evolve; it didn’t just appear. (“Origin and Evolution of DNA and DNA Replication Machineries”, by Forterre, Filee, and Myllykallio). And please, if you value any kind of credibility, don’t bring up Adam and Eve. That whole creation myth, like all other creation myths, are simply the attempts of primitive peoples to make sense of their world. They are made up. Fiction. Not real.

        About god revealing herself to me, I refer you to my earlier messages to you (three of my messages ago): see: “I *have* had “mystical” experiences…”

        For the rest (i.e., creation), your scenario, while less improbable than many religious ideas, is still a stretch. The idea of some creator deity jumping in and tweaking natural processes is simply too far fetched. As I said before, my belief is that IF god/goddess/first cause/etc. exists, it is the totality of all natural laws such as gravity, osmosis, conservation of energy, and so forth. And my only question about that, is that totality possessed of consciousness? It’s not evil, I know that. Just as Nature isn’t evil. It just does what it does. “Good” and “evil” are terms that humans made up to categorize things we either like or don’t like. I’d say, it’s all good. But that’s just me, the human, talking. :-)

        As I suggested earlier, I believe it is possible that certain states of consciousness, such as experienced in periods of deep meditation, can give rise to the subjective experience of divinity. Is it due to chemicals produced in the brain because of such activities? Can such activities produce chemical/metabolic/brain wave/ whatever changes that allow an individual to experience other states that some people term mystical? It’s possible. And it’s also entirely *natural*. I don’t believe god, if she exists, subverts natural law. But I do believe that there is more to nature and natural law than we understand so far.

      • gooder1

        Okay, very good Julie.

        One thing I believe the article you referenced left out was the inanimate to animate transformation. They instead sort of picked the process up in progress. I do believe the way they described it to be okay, but we need to take it back to the first living molecule, and how a living cell, which reproduces itself, came to be. The rest I believe to be fine.

        As for Adam and Eve, well even science believes in a progenitor. That is evolution in a nutshell. So the fairy tale of Adam and Eve is really the way it had to happen.

        In fact if we look at the order of the creation story in the Book of Genesis, if we were to remove God from it, the rest has a very scientifically logical order to it. Of course it was written over 4000 years ago by someone with the equivalent of a Fourth Grade education, in a figurative, expository fashion, but that person nevertheless got it very much spot on.

        As for your abstract understanding of God, well, God wouldn’t be God if he/she/it were part of nature, and not the cause of it. You would be describing a god, and not God. And I would say for the most part that you are correct in that God normally doesn’t subvert nature, but still and all, life had to come from somewhere, and I have yet to read a scientifically suitable argument for it.

        As for mystical experiences, well even though my next suggestion will fall on deaf ears, I will say it anyway: I would be very careful engaging in meditation that is not focused on God, or searching for Truth. Contemplative prayer is the emptying of one’s mind, asking God to fill it. Any other form of meditation can be very dangerous. That said, I find it interesting that in many cases, the people chosen to receive apparitions, of Jesus or Mary, are little children. These situations always have me asking the question, how do you get three or four children to see the same thing, and repeat the same thing in describing what they saw, even when physically separated? Children are not that organized. If it were simply a brain/chemical interaction, then each of the children would have his/her own individual experience? Would they not? Why do they experience an apparition, then are immediately separated, but all say they received the same message, and experienced the same thing.

      • JuliePurple

        Gooder, I focused on DNA because that’s what you referred to. I looked about a bit and found: “How Did Life Begin? RNA That Replicates Itself Indefinitely Developed For First Time” January 10, 2009 Source: Scripps Research Institute

        Rather than putting forth an idea and saying “god did it”, why not do a little research yourself? And science is still figuring things out. An answer that has eluded us so far is not the same as saying “god did it”. Maybe she did. Maybe not. We don’t know yet.

        Genesis… either you haven’t reviewed Genesis lately or
        your scientific and logical education has missed some important points.
        Light already existed when the earth first came into being . And *afterwards* separating light from darkness, creating the sky, stars and planets? Ridiculous.
        And it says god provided grass and leafy plants for ALL the wild animals to eat. Please don’t try to tell me that dolphins, woodpeckers, felines and so forth are vegetarian. Again, it’s a matter of credibility. And Genesis does not have it. At all.

        I said god, if she exists, essentially IS nature, not is a *part* of it. Your idea of god is different from mine.

        Remember where I said that we don’t know enough yet to explain what some people today consider to be miracles? There are many possible explanations for the children’s having “seen” the same thing. You are not a stupid person. You can think of them, if you try.

        Meditation: I’ve heard that spiel before about meditation
        being “dangerous”. I think the only thing it’s dangerous to is preconceived ideas. And in any case, the editation I did *was* based on god. (From what I’ve read, incidentally, the people calling it “dangerous” not only have not done it themselves, but have a rather disjointed idea of how to go about it. If there is anyone calling it “dangerous” who has actually done it correctly, I’d like to know the surrounding circumstances. Because it’s like calling religion or self-improvement system dangerous: some people are just whacko to begin with; it’s not the fault of the system.)

        Look, I understand that you really, really want the god of your religion to be real and provable. You are terribly fond of it and wish very hard that it is so. And you want the bible to be basically accurate. It’s a very common wish, and there’s nothing wrong with it. (I used to be like that too, until I used common sense, logic, and did some research. It’s a continuing process.) But it is NOT provable. You’re flailing about here in a sea of logical disconnections. How about we just agree that “it’s possible” (with some exceptions, for example: bible stories), and let it go at that?

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Yes I should have been more clear about the whole process, of animation, to molecular pairing. And as for that process, well science has only speculated on it. There is no proof, only theory. And as for the figurative, poetic presentation of creation in Genesis, well it is certainly ordered very well for someone who knew nothing of science, or of the beginnings of our planet. Let’s take a look at it. 1) the earth was a formless wasteland, darkness covered the abyss: Well, the atmosphere would be so full of particles during the volcanic forming of the earth, there would be darkness. 2) Let there be light: Particles settled, sun beginning to break through. 3) Day/night: no explanation needed 4) a dome in the sky: This is merely the developing atmosphere. 5) Separation of Water/Land: Oceans/Dry land – if one were to piece together a map of the world, it all fits together like a puzzle to form one land mass. There was separation at one point of this great mass of land, in the context of water. 6) vegetation/fruit: we can all agree that vegetation came first. 7) Stars/moon provide night light, sun provides daylight: The clearer the atmosphere became, the more obvious the stars came into view. 8) sea creatures large and small were next: we can all agree with that 9) then birds in the sky: certainly a possibility that ducks, etc. came next. 10) then cattle, and larger land creatures: evolution posits that the sea creatures left the water, and became land creatures of all sorts, and that they adapted to life on dry land 11) Then man appeared: transition from quadruped to biped certainly squares with the theory of evolution. So, I’m not sure what the argument really is. I believe that for a person (writer of Genesis) who knew nothing of science as we know it today, actually did a pretty good job mapping out the origins of the earth, and the development of life on earth. Was this person granted a vision of the creation of the world, in rapid succession, which was later written down? We really do not know.
        As to whether the sea/land animals first ate vegetation, and not each other, we really can’t say. Many believe that man was at one time strictly a vegetarian (at least our jawbones suggest it). So we really don’t know what very early life fed upon.
        As for Adam & Eve, well read up on the Mitochondrial Eve. A few years back I read a scientific update on a sampling of DNA of humans throughout the world, and indeed, all humans have descended from one woman, at least that is the current thought. As for Adam, well a man’s chromosomes do not carry as a woman’s do, so that one cannot be proven.
        Does/can God interfere with nature? Well, not normally, but I’m sure he has tweaked it from time to time. Man creates things such as machines, buildings, gadgets; whereas, God creates things by means of nature: utilizing organic and inorganic chemistry. That is how God does things.
        And as for meditation: be very careful.
        As for me, I’m off to the beach. Have a good Labor Day weekend.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        I hope you had a nice time at the beach.
        Now, back to the discussion.

        What is your objection to meditation? I really do want to know.

        As for molecular pairing, yes, science is still investigating it. Here’s the difference, though: the investigation is to learn what *really* happened, instead of trying to prove what they *want* to have happened.
        Genesis… just a few more examples of how it’s inaccurate:
        Light already existed before the earth formed.
        Early earth had no ocean, no liquid water at all. And from what I read, there never has been a time when dry land didn’t exist.
        You’re forgetting about the dinosaurs. Birds evolved from dinosaurs. Mammals didn’t appear until about 100 million years later. And funny how it didn’t even mention the dinosaurs or the massive extinction in there. Look up “Mitochondrial Eve” and you’ll see that she was part of a larger population.
        And of course, the two separate creation myths contradict each other.

        Look, Gooder, I’m doing your research for you. Since you are the one making the claims, you should be the one to substantiate them. And it would be lovely if you were to do your research for yourself, too. Don’t you want to know, really? At least as much as it is possible given the current scientific knowledge? I can see that you’re working very hard to have it so the bible is accurate, but it just isn’t. You really, really, really want it to be true. So you tie yourself in knots, picking up bits and pieces and rearranging them to make it seem so. But it isn’t. You are basically saying that the early people did pretty well for people who didn’t know what they were talking about. I agree: they observed their surroundings, and came up with a possible theory — oh, wait, *two* theories –, considering that they didn’t know what they were talking about. That about sums it up, eh? To quote you, Gooder, they “knew nothing of … the beginnings of our planet.” On that, we agree totally.

        Give it up about Genesis, and the bible in general. The term “rationalization” applies.
        This may be a great exercise for you in thinking how to twist things so that the biblical account makes sense, but it’s getting really tedious for me. Please let it go unless you have something *that you have researched objectively* to make your point.
        Here’s something to take to heart: Never be diverted from the truth by what you would like to believe.

      • Phil Fox Rose

        gooder1, I second everything JuliePurple said about meditation, and add to her follow-up my own challenge to your “be very careful” comment about it. This is absolute hogwash. The only thing meditation threatens, as Julie said very well, is a rigid unreflective faith. IMHO, if your religious framework cannot stand up to the light of mystical practice — which of course has as long of a history within Christianity as does dogmatism — then the problem is not the mystical practice.

      • gooder1

        Hi Phil:

        I guess I would have a hard time replying to you comment without first knowing what religious–if any–beliefs you profess. As for meditation, well I have no problem with it as long as it is focused on either God, or a true search for God. I do, however, have a problem with eastern meditation, or similar. The problem with random meditation is that when we empty our minds, it is like leaving the front door of the house open, for anything, or anybody, to enter. We let down our guard so to speak. I cannot tell by your post whether you believe in anything supernatural, but I have come to firmly believe that there is both a natural order of things, as well as a supernatural order of things. And God Almighty falls under the supernatural category. I have no reason to believe that there are not angels and the like, who can see us, but we can’t see them, and they work on our behalf. And on the flip side of that, I have no reason to believe that there are not destructive beings, much like the angels, who are out to do us great harm. And, when we meditate in the eastern way, in a sense we open our minds/souls, enabling these destructive beings to move in, and take up residence there. And they can be of great influence to us; in fact, they might even grant you a mystical experience, or two, provided it will further their cause. And, for the most part, you’d never know that they are there, that is, until you want to surrender your life to God. That is when a ferocious spiritual battle begins. These beings will hang on and fight tooth and nail for your soul. I myself used to be far from God, and know first hand what that battle is like. And it is not fun. So when I say to be very careful with meditation, I am very serious. It is not about a rigid unreflective faith, but rather keeping the bad guys out. Read Luke 11:14-26 about keeping up your defense.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        Let me just jump in here and refer you to Phil’s Busted Halo article: “Meditation: What Works.”

        I’ll also add that if you’re experiencing “demons” (i.e., negative tendencies), they were already inside you. The practice of meditation merely shows them to you so you can be aware of them and do something about them. And doing something about them often is simply continuing to meditate.) As I heard a great soul say years ago, meditation can be like washing a dirt-encrusted pan. You scrub a bit off the surface, and see more dirt underneath, and more under that, and so on, until eventually the dirt is gone and the pan is clean. The scrubbing doesn’t create the dirt. (That’s an inelegantly paraphrased synopsis, but that’s the gist of the story.)

        Out of curiosity, what religious belief do *you* profess?

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        Okay, I didn’t know Phil was a writer here. Thanks. And from what he says in his write up sounds harmless. I believe we all need time for self reflection, and he rightly promotes it. That, however, is not the type of meditation I was referring to. As for me, the only time I experienced a “demon” or a demonic battle, is when I decided to give up the secular life, and return to the Catholic Faith. And during that experience, I witnessed first hand what spiritual battles are all about. I would recommend a serious commitment to Jesus to anyone, and if that person is honestly and truly trying, the devil will not be happy.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        You’re welcome; glad to be of help.
        So, what type of meditation *were* you referring to?

        There’s nothing at all wrong with a commitment to Jesus, but it’s not for everyone. To paraphrase another story I heard, if the goal is to reach the top of the mountain, you have a choice of paths. You can take the path that your parents took, or you can choose a different one. Some are easier, some are harder, but they all reach the top eventually. And once you reach the top, you see that although the steps are different, they all get to the same place.

        And to paraphrase the Bhagavad Gita, any sincere effort to reach the highest understanding, whether you call it god or something else, is good. And I agree, if we call our inner negative tendencies “the devil”, that there usually is a struggle. Just scrubbing off more of the dirt. :-)

      • gooder1

        Hi Julie,

        If there is life beyond the natural one we now live, then there’s only going to be one. The Hindu, Buddhist, etc., are all well meaning, but they both can’t be right, with respect to one another, or with ultimate Truth itself. In life you must tirelessly pursue Truth, and if you choose the wrong path within the course of that pursuit, and were sure it led to God, then God will acknowledge that. But in the same stroke, if God the Father sent Jesus to obtain for us eternal life, and we ignored him, then we have much to answer for. The answer is all religions can’t be right. Years ago, when there was a lack of communication & poor transmission of media, during those times we could find ourselves in a desert island of sorts regarding information. But today, with information at the tips of our fingers, we should use it to find Truth. All I’m saying is that the multiple path thing is becoming an either/or, rather than a different slope to the same summit. In this life, especially now, with information at the tips of our fingers, we must pursue Truth: who are we? what happens when we die? who is in control of my eternity? is there a heaven? is there a hell? where do I want to end up? and if so, how do I accomplish that? Those are questions we all need to ask in the information age. Because if the teachings of Jesus are correct (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then at our judgment we will be asked how we used the resources available to us, to find Truth. Are there Hindus in heaven today? Are there Buddhists? Well I believe there are, but it probably had more due to information shortage than that they took a different path. God is just in his Judgments, and considers all things, but at the same time He has given us a broad highway to heaven in his Son, and expects us to use it.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Gooder
        You said “all religions can’t be right”. Maybe they aren’t; maybe *all* of them are simply pretend. But if one is “right”, then others must be, too.

        All — Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto, Shamanic, and so forth — all are attempts to reach the
        ultimate reality. No one has the complete picture. All have something of the truth, but not all of it. To say that you know what is the right one is to say that you are blinded by your prejudices. To say that you believe the teachings of Jesus are correct is to say that you believe that the cobbled together opinions and prejudices of early Christians were spot on. Just like the teachings of other belief systems, they no doubt have much to recommend them, but they’re not the only teachings that shine a light on truth, nor are they always good counsel. (And remember, we don’t know what Jesus really said. It’s all second- or third- or fourth-hand at very best. And I have no doubt that much is totally the invention of the early Christians.) To say that Hindus and Buddhists and the rest are only in “heaven” because they didn’t have the opportunity to learn of your specific favorite path is rather patronizing. It’s ridiculous to think that any human culture is “chosen” over another. If god actually exists and manifests in any way that humans can understand, it must be a sort of generic “god stuff” that is packaged (so to speak) to suit the culture, and since it’s interpreted by humans, inevitably carries some cultural prejudices. Nothing else makes sense.

        Actually, the reality is that we’re all just making our best guess and nobody really knows. Nobody. The attitude that “if people of other faiths knew about ours and dismissed it then they’re wrong” is precisely what initiated my abandonment of Christianity/Catholicism as a viable source of spiritual help. Because that sort of arrogance simply sets my teeth on edge. It is prejudice, plain and simple. To limit the great powers of the universe to one small set of circumstances, a single culture, a single belief system, is insulting to the reality of it, which is vast and all-encompassing. It’s so far beyond anything we can conceive of that it’s actually laughable to think that we have a handle on it. We don’t even come close. The majesty and mystery of it is more than we can comprehend. And I, for one, am grateful for that.

      • ray

        Noni where is your head again?? Hell was not invented by the church!! It is already a belief by all ancient religions – Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus in Greek, Bagabo and Kalichi in Asia, The Chinvat Bridge and Samsara in ancient India, Naraka by Buddhism and Hinduism, The Bardo in ancient Tibet, Hetguage by the Swahilis, Xibalba by the Aztecs, Sheo and Gehinom by the ancient Hebrews and later Hell by Judaism and “infernus: in Christianity etc.

        The point of Jesus coming in this world is to save us from damnation!!! And a “scare tactic”, so if there is no hell, all people in this world are doing good and right?Wow!!! So there is no need to learn ethics, civility and morality anymore??? Why do you think there is a lot of sex and violence, war happening??Talking to you is like teaching a child ABC’s.

      • ray

        Noni where is your head again?? Hell was not invented by the church!! It is already a belief by all ancient religions – Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus in Greek, Bagabo and Kalichi in Asia, The Chinvat Bridge and Samsara in ancient India, Naraka by Buddhism and Hinduism, The Bardo in ancient Tibet, Hetguage by the Swahilis, Xibalba by the Aztecs, Sheo and Gehinom by the ancient Hebrews and later Hell by Judaism and “infernus: in Christianity etc.

        The point of Jesus coming in this world is to save us from damnation!!! And a “scare tactic”? so if there is no hell, all people in this world are doing good and right? Wow!!! So there is no need to learn ethics, civility and morality anymore??? Why do you think there is a lot of sex and violence, war happening??

        Secularism:
        HIstorically, the roots of secularism is caused by the separation of church and state in 1798 France, orchestrated by banksters thu their masonic enforcers, to weaken the church’s leadership in society, from there all hell broke loose – More civil wars, revolutions, WW1, WW2, Cold War etc

        Secularism is also facilitated by the fracture of the church thru protestantism – soft and pluralistic Christianity, this allowed them (*’j*’e*”w”‘*i”*s*’h”*) banksters to pursue their agenda – repealing laws against “usury”, masking itself as “progressivism”, “liberty” and painting the church as a stumbling block for progress. Secularism it designed to destroy a society!!! I has nothing to do with modern, progressive and independent societies devoid of God (The Trinity) and to falsely worship humanistic and satanical ideals such as consumerism, aetheism, *z*’i(o*’ni*s*’m”*, capitalism, nazism, globalism where everything is a means to an end and to bring back mankind to a barbaric and feudalistic age!!!

        Exodus of Catholics or exodus of protestants / evangHellicals to catholics?? Christ said the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against His Church-(The Real Church), All the top protestant scholars have converted to Catholicism like the Scott Hahns, Ulf Ekman (convert recently), Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Bishop Sheen etc. they are academic scholars, not the ignorant ones!!! So spare me some fake sad news!!

        Talking to you is like teaching a child ABC’s, there is no logic, common sense, ignorant in history coupled with anti-catholic beliefs, I suggest stop commenting on this page and do some real research first, you are no different from aetheists that cannot even prove that God does not exist, your are just posers trying to project to people as intellectuals, but the thing is, if examined closely there is no weight in your comments. It is such an embarrassment just by reading all your comments, to save yourself some credibility.

      • noni

        You wrote “Why do you think there is a lot of sex and violence”, don’t ask me, ask your bishops and priests in your dioceses and parishes for answer. They know better.

      • ray

        Another desperate foolish answer. Why won’t you ask your evangHellical pastors why did their so called “moral majority” failed to protect this country from the degeneracy foisted by the elites!!! Wait a minute, you are clueless to know they are in bed with them lock, stock and barrel!!!

        Save yourself some embarrassment – stop commenting!!! It is so laughable!!!

      • noni

        Remember the late Father Marcial Maciel?

      • ray

        Save yourself from embarrassment, google Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse

      • ray

        Save yourself from embarrassment again, google Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse

        J*e*w*s are the worst, 50% followed by Evangelicals, 25%, Catholics only comprises of 1.5%, the reason why this has been exaggerated by the press is The Catholic Church historically is their enemy.

      • noni

        So, you admitted that the catholics committed sex abuse too, only 1.5%. Committing a sin is not gauged by %. Both those who scored 1.5% and 100% will go to hell anyway based on your doctrine. By the way, where did you get your statistics? You catholics are really good in coining or making up.

      • ray

        Did I every say, that they did not commit these crimes or these acts are not mortal spin??? A doctrine?? Use common sense, not your bird brain again!! Am I justifying it?? No, I am just stating facts, the problem with you is you spin too much, you cannot stand a fair debate, you always stir things up to throw the conversation out, the numbers I gave you are “facts” and it comes from non-catholic/secular sources, not from mainstream media one of them is from Billy Graham’s Grandson, Tullian Tchividjian, Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse, maybe you can read this article to understand what I am saying.

      • noni

        Hey Ray, you wrote “Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse” did you forget that catholics and evangelicals are both christians. You are in the same boat. The thing that puzzled me the most is that you claimed to be catholic (christian-follower of christ) but you cannot agree amount yourselves. Your doctrine says that outside the catholic church, there is no salvation. Ergo the non-catholic which numbered 3 billion (world population is 4 billion (past statistics) minus 1 billion catholics) will all go to hell. Since your church claimed that only catholics can be saved, and being saved means without SIN, and since you are a cathoic, you must be without sin. If you won’t agree with me that you are without sin, therefore you cannot claim to be a catholic. A sinner cannot claim to be a christian. Bertrand Russell once declared that he cannot be a christian because he cannot live as such. A christian lives a sinless life just like the man who you said founded the christian religion. You also mentioned in your post about common sense. If you have not already done so, please read Thomas Paine’s book, Common Sense. This is the book that inspired the founding of this great nation (America). He is not a christian.

      • ray

        According to the 2004 U.S. Department of Education study, “the physical sexual abuse of students in
        schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.” by Carol Shakeshaft. – Noni, they are all from secular schools, now are you all secularists and aetheists are of the same boat? Do you want me to stereotype all the non-Christians are doing the same thing? I thought liberals are the most rational people that they claim to be?

        Catholics believe in Christ as The Son of God!!! And we are not in the same boat with other denominations, that is why they are called “denominations”, they do not agree with our theology and beliefs. Anybody nowadays can put up their so called “church” if they want to, no one has control over that! And the Catholic Church has nothing to do with their actions! The Church was established by Christ for sinners!! (Luke 5:30-32) 30 The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?” 31 And Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. 30 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

        This is why I go to church, because I am not perfect, and I make mistakes everyday!!! Your insertion of Bertrand Russell’s argument is pitiful, prideful, non-sense and full of excuse not to believe in God and His Sacrifice!!!

        The reality of founding this nation is full of treachery, oppression and racism against the Native Indians. It is rooted in masonry, that is why they are not Christians, even the constitution of this country is a masonic document that they have ripped off from the “Magna Carta” of 1215 of King John (English Catholic King), they have attached it to the 1791 Bill of Rights in the shape of the “Fifth Amendment”. The masonic constitution of this country is a man-centered document, this 14 page document they have devoid it of the Holy Trinity, and proclaims itself as champion of liberty, fraternity, freedom, brotherhood, etc except The Name of God The Father, The Son (Christ) and The Holy Ghost!! This is just pure hypocrisy and non-sense.

        Noni, you sound like you have run out of reason and thinking, throwing these nonsensical comments out, just reading your past comments show you are just pretending that you are knowledgeable of Scripture and Church history, but in reality you don’t even know why the church is established in the first place and this is just beyond pathetic and embarrassing.

      • ray

        test test check

      • JuliePurple

        Noni, the thing about people who don’t debate rationally, is that they don’t understand the concept. They seem to think that mockery, repetition, and non sequiturs constitute rational debate. It’s frustrating, I know! You have my sympathy.

      • ray

        That is not an insult – that is factual!!! You have sympathy with stupidity???? LOL!!! You have not even prove that God does not exist!!!! This blog is about the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, but you people inject things that are illogical to this debate!!! Prove to me that God does not really exist!!!

      • JuliePurple

        I have sympathy for people who attampt to have a rational, courteous discussion with people who prefer to use mockery instead of good manners and good sense.

        You want me to prove a negative, eh.? Think about it . For instance, how about you prove that the Easter Bunny does not exist.

      • ray

        Good Manners!! Look at your mockery about the Blessed Virgin in your past comment “Instead of “spouse”, how about “sperm donor”? :-)”

        I bet you cannot do that on other religions let alone in their blogs, that is why you slum here in a Catholic blog. You are just a byproduct of the communist university system with a feminist ice dressing limousine liberal, when it comes to Catholics it is fair game!!! Easter bunny are a commercial tradition in the West, it is not part of the doctrine of the church, why won’t you ask your z*i*’o* liberal professors they would now, it is their puppet masters that make money of that, just like their perversion of St. Nick ie Santa Claus. By the way Christmas, Easter Sunday (part of Holy Week) they are part of our Liturgical Calendar!! If you and your atheist cult are so smart, give me one of their inventions, innovations and ingenuity??? And by the way you have not proven yet in this blog that God does not exist!!! LOL!!!!

      • JuliePurple

        You just proved my point. See my earlier comment to Noni.

      • JuliePurple

        Well said, Noni! And the thing that a lot of people are forgetting is that a Christian is a follower of Christ. So… in order for Christ to have been a Christian, he’d have to have been a follower of himself. Sort of going around in circles, hey? :-)

      • ray

        Jesus is Christianity!!! LOL!!! He is the perfection of Judaism.

      • Son of Encouragement

        John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus Christ) was God.(3 in 1) He(Jesus Christ ) was with God in the beginning. THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE; (including Christianity) without Him NOTHING was made that has been made. Jesus is His Name & Christ is His title. .. meaning Messiah aka anointed one! Princeton, Georgetown & nothing else can give you the understanding of the bible like the Holy Spirit & the bible can. Study the word to show thy self APPROVAL TO GOD. Stop trying to lead other astray from the TRUTH & deceiving YOURSELF!

      • Mike

        first off Jesus is God made flesh, so He can legalize anything He wants, in accordance with His Father.

        and too, you sound like a very educated person. So I was wonder if you have ever heard of the term,
        “stuck on stupid” ?

      • ray

        Why is it wrong to call him St. Jerome? He was born Eusebius Hieronymous Sophronius, St. Peter’s original name was: Simon bar Jonah, does everybody call him by this name? Of course not. And LOL!!! Erasmus lived in the 15 Century and St. Jerome lived in the 4th Century, and again, He was the one commissioned by the Pope (Damasus) to translate the Sacred Books from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to official language which is Latin until 1,400 years when Luther decided to make-up his own church, then translating it to English.

      • Mike

        yes there was a Church back then. The church was establish at the time of Pentecost. it just takes time to build a church to go to is all.

      • Mike

        correct BUT as close as they could they took all of the fragments of like “paper’s” then put the all together again WOW then man using his mind used what came to be known as “putting the pieces of a puzzle together” then …. the rest is history …

      • ray

        The main reason for The Church convening a council -The Council of Nicea is because there was a lot of heresies spreading around that denies the divinity of Christ and a lot of books claiming to be “sacred scriptures”.

        367 was the year St. Athanasius of Alexandria, the great defender of the Divinity of Christ – wrote his “39th Festal Letter” in which he identified what books rightfully belong to the “New Testament.” He did this to protect his followers in Alexandria from believing in the various heresies and errors contained in bogus “holy books”. This was the first time that the “canon” or official list of books of the New Testament was identified. It gained immediate acceptance with most believers.

        In the years 393, the Council of Hippo made the first enumeration of all the 73 books (both Old and New Testament) that we Catholics now consider as comprising the Bible. This same list was affirmed 4 years later, in 397, in the Council of Carthage. A few years later, St. Exuperius of Toulouse wrote to Pope St. Innocent I in a formal letter requesting the list of canonical books. The Pope replied in 405 A.D. with a letter confirming and reaffirming the canon given at Hippo and Carthage. Yet another Council in Carthage, in the year 419, reaffirmed the canon of the Bible given in previous Councils in Hippo and Carthage.

        That is why the Catholic Old Testament has 46 books while the Protestant Old Testament has only 39 books.

        The Catholic Old Testament is based upon the Greek Old Testament actually used in the time of Jesus Christ and accepted by all Christians for 1,500 years. The version of the Old Testament used by Protestants (including the “Born Again” cults), on the other hand, is based on a Hebrew version compiled several decades after Jesus lived and walked on the Earth. It was not accepted as the real Old Testament by any Christian until the founder of Protestantism, Martin Luther, did so in 1521. The differences between the Protestant and Catholic Old Testament also do not change the fact that Born Again Christians accept – without question – the Catholic New Testament.

      • Mike

        Catholic Religion as you call it did to exist before the, ‘bible was written”, it just did not get the name “Catholic” until many years later is all.

        now you need to find out what the word, CATHOLIC, means. then think about it, why did that person that gave Christianity the name Catholic? yet it is still the same Christianity that Jesus taught people to live by.

      • ray

        The Catholic Church is not just in the scriptures, its origins is traced back from the early Church fathers; St. Justin Martyr, St. Ignatius of Antioch, Tertulian, St. Clement, mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3, St. Polycarp, St. Iraneaus, St. Ambrose, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Athanasius, St. Clement of Rome, St. Augustine and St. Jerome.

        “’Catholic’ is the ancient name by which the Church of Christ has been known for nineteen centuries, this name was given to her not for reasons of controversy, to prove something, but because it identifies her uniquely. It was first used by St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch in Syria, who was martyred about A.D 110. The Church founded by Christ is here, for the first time, called ‘the Catholic Church’, a name clearly to denote the Church throughout the world in union with the see or diocese of Rome. It was stress the unity of the universal Church that St. Ignatius INVENTED THE NAME.”

        The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St Ignatius, written about the year 110. The words run: “Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church.”[15] Later, in the “Catechetical Discourses” of St. Cyril of Jerusalem we see the name “Catholic Church” to identify the church from various sects. St Cyril writes, “And if ever thou art sojourning in any city, inquire not simply where the Lord’s house is–for the sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens, houses of the Lord–nor merely where the church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of the holy body the mother of us all.”

        The prepositional phrase “throughout all” (kath oles) appears in Luke 4:14; Luke 23:5; Acts9:31; Acts 9:42; Acts 10:37.

      • ray

        CATHOLIC WORD IN THE BIBLE PART 1 – Quote: The word is a transliteration of the ancient Greek καθολικός, pl. καθολικοί, derived from καθ’ ὅλου (kath’olou, “generally”) from κατά (kata, “down”) and ὅλος (holos, “whole”), meaning “concerning the whole, universal, general”;

        ..before the change in their Commission, Jesus had previously Commanded that they remain within Israel:

        Quote:

        22 And suddenly out came a Canaanite woman from that district and started shouting, ‘Lord, Son of David, take pity on me. My daughter is tormented by a devil.’ 23 But he said not a word in answer to her. And his disciples went and pleaded with him, saying, ‘Give her what she wants, because she keeps shouting after us.’ 24 He said in reply, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.’ (St. Matthew 15:22-24)

        1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them out ahead of him in pairs, to all the towns and places he himself would be visiting. 2 And he said to them, ‘The harvest is rich but the labourers are few, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send labourers to do his harvesting. (St. Luke 10:1-2)

        …once the Scriptures are fulfilled (St. John 1:11), Jesus is able to expand His Community into the Katholikos arena (St. John 1:12-13).

        Now that we can see that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus, how do we arrive at the year 33AD? That is the year that most historians believe that Jesus was crucified and resurrected. On Pentecost following Easter, the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (Acts 2:1-6) and they began their mission of preaching and teaching the Gospel. Pentecost is considered by theologians to be the “birthday” of the Catholic Church.

        CATHOLIC WORD IN THE BIBLE:

        ἡ μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ᾽ὁλης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχεν ειρηνην οικοδομουμενη και πορευομενη τω φοβω του κυριου, και τη παρακλησει του ἁγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο. Πράξεις τῶν Ἀποστόλων 9:31

        From google translate, from greek translate it to english, and google says:

        While the church’s catholic of Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had been peace with porefomeni is constructed and attached to the fear of the Lord and the prayers of the Holy Spirit eplithynonto. Acts 9:31

        3) Q: Now how about the “throughout” translation?? A: Remove the ς in καθ᾽ὁλης της and then hit translate:

        s While the church throughout Judea and Galilee and Samaria had been peace with porefomeni is constructed and attached to the fear of the Lord and the prayers of the Holy Spirit eplithynonto. Acts 9:31

        4) Compare it now to the english version:

        ACTS 9:31

        New International Version (NIV)

        31 Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

        5) Playing more with google translate will reveal the following:

        καθ᾽ὁλης της = Catholics of
        καθ᾽ὁλης τη = throughout the
        καθ ὁλης της = throughout the entire
        εκκλησια = church

        Therefore:
        εκκλησια καθ᾽ὁλης της = church throughout the entire = church throughout = catholic church = Universal Church
        31 Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

        5) Playing more with google translate will reveal the following:

        καθ᾽ὁλης της = Catholics of
        καθ᾽ὁλης τη = throughout the
        καθ ὁλης της = throughout the entire
        εκκλησια = church

        Therefore:
        εκκλησια καθ᾽ὁλης της = church throughout the entire = church throughout = catholic church = Universal Church

  • noni

    Fr. Joe, can you please point to us the traditon where Mary’s sinlessness is connected since we can’t find it in the scripture. Thanks.

  • Cat

    Thank you George….and if anyone here has any sense, then do not listen to preacher ray who clearly has no understanding of the hebrew language and bases his trust in 2000 years of pagan beliefs and understanding brought about by Rome and its ‘doctored’ translations. Seek the truth, clearly Ray has not done that, and rather than be humble himself, he chooses to call anything not in agreement with his understanding, scams.
    Hey Ray, did you not notice that the ones you call jews, are the ones who have gates. There isn’t a Ray gate. Oh and the word jew means of the tribe of judah, not all israelites, but you all persecute them just the same, exactly what Rome wanted. No emperor of Rome who believed he was a god was going to allow anyone from the tribe of judah to rule over him.

    • ray

      LOL!!! I am not a preacher. I call it a scam because I can back it up, *j*e*w*s* are the one who rejected Christ (His Divinity), that is Christianity 101, even until this present day, they are attacking His Divinity and His Church via subversive tactics, your evangHellical indoctrination is very stereotypical, not so surprised by it because the ‘Bnai Brith (j*e*w*i*s*h* freemasonry) established your cult called – Fundamentalism, the worst part is they are not even biblical *j*e*w*s* – they are from the ashkenazi tribe, they are only prosletyzed ones, Rev 3:9 – Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Now you call them gates, Gates of what? – GATES OF HELL!! I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6). They rejected The Son of God!! Try reading the talmud, kabalah so you can have an eye-opener on how they hate Jesus Christ, His Mother Mary, gentiles including you. Your belief even supersedes paganism, blasphemy and heresy, this just comes straight from hell.

      LOL!!! Who says the catechism is in the bible?? Is the word bible in the bible? What a complete ignorant fool you are, it is just a collection of questions and answers to better explain the fundamental beliefs of The Catholic Church. Do you know the history of the bible? Do you know who codified and canonized the scriptures? – It is the Catholic Church!!! Not sola scriptura!!!

      The Pope is biblical, I have already mentioned it in my comment, repeating it again: The Papacy is prophesied in the scriptures, ISAIAH 22:20-21 for the Messianic Kingdom of God which Peter will be the “Gatekeeper” or the “Keeper” of the “Key(s)” of the Kingdom which is called “Father/Papa/Pope”.

      ISAIAH 22:20-21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into His hand: and he shall be a father to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

      ISAIAH 22:22-23 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon His shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And I will Fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to His Father’s house.

      - This “Prophecy” is fulfilled in St. Peter, “The Key” to whom The Kingdom of The Messiah was given and entrusted. Also given is the title of the ‘Father or Papa/Pope’ to The Kingdom of its inhabitants. Since St. Peter is the very 1st steward of the “Keys” of the Kingdom of Heaven from The Lord Jesus Christ ​​Himself, then He is the 1st Father/Pope/Papa of the Kingdom of Christ.

      - St. Peter is the Pope of the New Testament, bec. the Keys to Heaven was solely entrusted to him by Christ among all of the apostles.

      - This validates the succession among Popes, bec. St. Peter thru its Office of the Keys as Keeper of the Kingdom and therefore rebukes the notion that calling Peter “Pope” is unbiblical.

      - ISAIAH 22:20-21 AM. Keeper. The Key of the Kingdom of the Father is called “Papa”, in MT 16:18-19 Jesus handed and entrusted Peter ​​the Keys to the Kingdom.

      - Pope/Papa/Father is the Fulfillment of Prophecy was which was already stated in the Book of Isaiah. St. Peter was destined to fulfill The Prophecy as the “Gatekeeper” of the Kingdom.

    • ray

      LOL!!! I am not a preacher. I call it a scam because I can back it up, *j*e*w*s* are the one who rejected Christ (His Divinity), that is Christianity 101, even until this present day, they are attacking His Divinity and His Church via subversive tactics, your evangHellical indoctrination is very stereotypical, not so surprised by it because the ‘Bnai Brith (j*e*w*i*s*h* freemasonry) established your cult called – Fundamentalism, the worst part is they are not even biblical *j*e*w*s* – they are from the ashkenazi tribe, they are only prosletyzed ones, Rev 3:9 – Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Now you call them gates, Gates of what? – GATES OF HELL!! I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6). They rejected The Son of God!! Try reading the talmud so you can have an eye-opener on how they hate Jesus Christ, His Mother Mary, gentiles including you. Your belief even supersedes paganism, blasphemy and heresy, this just comes straight from hell.

      LOL!!! Who says the catechism is in the bible?? Is the word bible in the bible? What a complete ignorant fool you are, it is just a collection of questions and answers to better explain the fundamental beliefs of The Catholic Church. Do you know the history of the bible? Do you know who codified and canonized the scriptures? – It is the Catholic Church!!! Not sola scriptura!!!

      The Pope is biblical, I have already mentioned it in my comment, repeating it again: The Papacy is prophesied in the scriptures, ISAIAH 22:20-21 for the Messianic Kingdom of God which Peter will be the “Gatekeeper” or the “Keeper” of the “Key(s)” of the Kingdom which is called “Father/Papa/Pope”. ISAIAH 22:20-21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into His hand: and he shall be a father to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. ISAIAH 22:22-23 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon His shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And I will Fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to His Father’s house. This “Prophecy” is fulfilled in St. Peter, “The Key” to whom The Kingdom of The Messiah was given and entrusted. Also given is the title of the ‘Father or Papa/Pope’ to The Kingdom of its inhabitants. Since St. Peter is the very 1st steward of the “Keys” of the Kingdom of Heaven from The Lord Jesus Christ ​​Himself, then He is the 1st Father/Pope/Papa of the Kingdom of Christ. St. Peter is the Pope of the New Testament, bec. the Keys to Heaven was solely entrusted to him by Christ among all of the apostles. This validates the succession among Popes, bec. St. Peter thru its Office of the Keys as Keeper of the Kingdom and therefore rebukes the notion that calling Peter “Pope” is unbiblical. ISAIAH 22:20-21 AM. Keeper. The Key of the Kingdom of the Father is called “Papa”, in MT 16:18-19 Jesus handed and entrusted Peter ​​the Keys to the Kingdom. Pope/Papa/Father is the Fulfillment of Prophecy was which was already stated in the Book of Isaiah. St. Peter was destined to fulfill The Prophecy as the “Gatekeeper” of the Kingdom.

  • ray

    this group is a scam, part of their dialectic/dichotomy in the religious space to muddle up Christianity, offshoot of the “dispensationalism” false dogma, they have been running now for 15 years just like the so-called messianic-*j*e*w*s*, “judeo-christian”, just trying to merge Chrisitanity with their group to cover themselves up just in case the “preverbial” hits the fan. There is no such thing as *j*e*w*s* for Jesus, it is either your a Christian or not, and you will not be part of God’s salvation.

  • Cat

    Well I hate to burst your bubble mate, but the Isaiah scroll doesn’t say ‘virgin’, it says ‘maiden’. (Discovered around the 1920′s) That scroll is dated to before the time of ‘Jesus’ and written in hebrew…so please do explain to me, how on this earth that the verse in Matthew reciting Isaiah 7:14 can possible say ‘virgin’ when the word ‘virgin’ in hebrew is a completely different word??? Serioulsy I think you should take the words of the Lord seriously, when he tells you to ‘seek the truth’ and not forgetting ‘few will be saved’ seeing as there are 2.3billion of you all thinking you are baptized in his name….which wasn’t Jesus and infact means his character, not his moniker. It wasn’t Jesus because the letter J did not exist until 500 yrs ago, not only that but even the original KJV did not start his name with a J. So how can you get baptized in his name(character) when there are so many additions and fallacies taught to men by the roman church? Or are we ignoring the one who was called the word, to listen to blind hypocritical preachers….Oh dear….blind scribes, hypocrites!!! Catechism 460:80 courtesy of the vatican…”……..so he might make men gods”…er no, you are mere mortals, well unless you get thrown into hellfire, then you wont be much of anything.
    Might I remind you of the ten commandments.
    Hell mend you Rome!!

    • ray

      YOU SAID: Well I hate to burst your bubble mate, but the Isaiah scroll doesn’t say ‘virgin’, it says ‘maiden’. (Discovered around the 1920′s) That scroll is dated to before the time of ‘Jesus’ and written in hebrew…so please do explain to me, how on this earth that the verse in Matthew reciting Isaiah 7:14 can possible say ‘virgin’ when the word ‘virgin’ in hebrew is a completely different word???

      ANSWER: WRONG!! The VIRGIN BIRTH is in Scripture both in the OT and NT, both are in harmony together and it does not contradict with each other, all you have to read is LUKE 1:26-38.

      LUKE 1:26-38 – 26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a VIRGIN espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the VIRGIN’S name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, HOW SHALL THIS BE, SEEING I KNOW NOT A MAN? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

      - If you are saying that the word “virgin” is not mentioned in Isaiah, so why is it being mention in Luke in the NT?? By saying this false accusations of the Virgin Birth, you are committing grave blasphemy to Christ, His Divinity and His Blessed Mother, even non-christians believe this. Whether, Hebrew, Aramaic or English it is about context not the spelling, if you are so worried about translations then all you have to do is look at all the perverted bibles created by protestants since the last 500 years such as: Schofield bible, Geneva bible, Mormon bible, NIV, New World translation, Clear Word bible, Moffat bible, Godspeed bible, Lamsa bible, King James vers., New King James vers. etc. NOW ARE YOU GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE PERVERTED BIBLES re-written to fit their own personalities????

      • Cat

        Actually…its not me who is committing blasphemy to the Lord. His name isn’t christ btw, that is from the greek word christos meaning anointed. The greek word parthenos does not mean ‘virgin’ it means ‘unmarried woman’…it is only the romans who love to venerate virgin goddesses. Have you never researched mithraism, you really should, and whilst your at it, see that you learn of the original languages that your roman pagan forefathers supposedly translated from.
        YES I WILL INDEED COMPLAIN ABOUT ALL THOSE BIBLES AS THEY ARE ALL BASED ON THE SAME PAGAN UNDERSTANDING AS YOUR FOREFATHERS!! AND KING JAMES WAS CATHOLIC!!!

      • ray

        Then you have a big problem if you just call him Lord, that is a title that can also be given to a man, mostly prominent or rich, in the last 20th Century this title are being bought by noveau-rich *j*e*w*s* in England such as Lord Rothschild, Lord Levy, Lord Goldsmith, Lord Monkton etc., now are you equating Jesus Christ

        The Son of God to them? And who says Christos does not mean the anointed?? When you say Christ, that is a combination of The Divine Son of God, Messiah, Annointed, Redeemer, Lord of Lords and The King of Kings and nobody can claim that title but Him, so I would rather choose that than the heretical Lord that you are using. If you have a problem with the english language, then just speak in greek (which has more pagan gods than the Romans), so you won’t have a translation problem, this does not prove anything, and by the way Jesus also spoke in Hebrew and Aramaic, so you can use that too.

        Your burned again cult is not doing a great job indoctrinating you about the Blessed Virgin Mary:

        In ISAIAH 7:14, “Almah” is a hebrew definition of a virgin. ALMAH (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמות) is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman. PARTHENOS: a maiden, virgin; extended to men who have not known women.

        LOL!! Christianity came before mithraism. Mithraism is just a rip-off of Jesus Christ’s story and Catholicism in its early days by heretics to discount His Divinity,

        they do not even have a crucifixion, death and resurrection, no history and witnesses, this cult was started to rival the Christian religion that has gained widespread popularity, just like masonry is a mockery of Catholicism in the 17th century, everything is just replaced by fictitious characters and inverted rituals, now this has evolved to other masonic cults like Mormonism, Adventism, Jehovah’s Witness, Scientology and of course your Evangelicalism established by the Bnai Brith (*j*e*w*i*s*h* freemasonry) hook, line and sinker. If you are so much into the history of paganism, heretical, satanical cults then this is the place to be – Fundamentalism, a creation of *z*i*o*n*i*s*t’* j*e*w*s* headed by Samuel Untermayer with the help of Cyrus Schofield (authored the Schofield bible) to create consensus, support and to shape the *z*i*o*n*i*s*t’* point of view among gentiles (non-*j*e*w*s*) specifically evangelical-burned again cults, this line of thinking among them is very pervasive across the bible belt that they are so clueless and deceived. Support and funding is given to preachers (TV, Radio show, popularity etc) to anyone who supports this beast. Now this is very reflective on how you accuse The Catholic Church of paganism, paganism means

        worshipping difference gods, goddesses and nature-worshipping. The Doctrine of The Holy Trinity (Father, Son and The Holy Ghost) was authored by The Early Church Fathers, they even died for not denying this dogma? All the martyrs and saints fought for this belief, now can you name one evangelical/fundamentalist or protestant who sacrificed his/her life for this belief? And why is it that every evangelical ministry has a name attached on it – Billy Graham, John MacArthur, Kenneth Copeland, Jimmy Swaggart etc? Isn’t this more idolatry, cultic-paganistic? And King James, Martin Luther, Henry VIII etc are heretics, they are rememberd as the people who made Christianity a mockery!! Your arguments are so predictable and laughable its not even worth 10 cents, no wonder there are 40,000+ Christian denominations!!

      • ray

        Then you have a big problem if you just call him Lord, that is a title that can also be given to a man, mostly prominent or rich, in the last 20th Century this title are being bought by noveau-rich *j*e*w*s* in England such as Lord Rothschild, Lord Levy, Lord Goldsmith, Lord Monkton etc., now are you equating Jesus Christ The Son of God to them? And who says Christos does not mean the anointed?? When you say Christ, that is a combination of The Divine Son of God, Messiah, Annointed, Redeemer, Lord of Lords and The King of Kings and nobody can claim that title but Him, so I would rather choose that than the heretical Lord that you are using. If you have a problem with the english language, then just speak in greek (which has more pagan gods than the Romans), so you won’t have a translation problem, this does not prove anything, and by the way Jesus also spoke in Hebrew and Aramaic, so you can use that too. Your burned again cult is not doing a great job indoctrinating you about the Blessed Virgin Mary:

        In ISAIAH 7:14, “Almah” is a hebrew definition of a virgin. ALMAH (עלמה, plural: alamot עלמות) is a Hebrew word meaning a young woman of childbearing age who has not yet had a child, and who may be an unmarried virgin or a married young woman. PARTHENOS: a maiden, virgin; extended to men who have not known women.
        LOL!! Christianity came before mithraism. Mithraism is just a rip-off of Jesus Christ’s story and Catholicism in its early days by heretics to discount His Divinity, they do not even have a crucifixion, death and resurrection, no history and witnesses, this cult was started to rival the Christian religion that has gained widespread popularity, just like masonry is a mockery of Catholicism in the 17th century, everything is just replaced by fictitious characters and inverted rituals, now this has evolved to other masonic cults like Mormonism, Adventism, Jehovah’s Witness, Scientology and of course your Evangelicalism established by the Bnai Brith (*j*e*w*i*s*h* freemasonry) hook, line and sinker. If you are so much into the history of paganism, heretical, satanical cults then this is the place to be – Fundamentalism, a creation of *z*i*o*n*i*s*t’* j*e*w*s* headed by Samuel Untermayer with the help of Cyrus Schofield (authored the Schofield bible) to create consensus, support and to shape the *z*i*o*n*i*s*t’* point of view among gentiles (non-*j*e*w*s*) specifically evangelical-burned again cults, this line of thinking among them is very pervasive across the bible belt that they are so clueless and deceived. Support and funding is given to preachers (TV, Radio show, popularity etc) to anyone who supports this beast. Now this is very reflective on how you accuse The Catholic Church of paganism, paganism means worshipping difference gods, goddesses and nature-worshipping. The Doctrine of The Holy Trinity (Father, Son and The Holy Ghost) was authored by The Early Church Fathers, they even died for not denying this dogma? All the martyrs and saints fought for this belief, now can you name one evangelical/fundamentalist or protestant who sacrificed his/her life for this belief? And why is it that every evangelical ministry has a name attached on it – Billy Graham, John MacArthur, Kenneth Copeland, Jimmy Swaggart etc? Isn’t this more idolatry, cultic-paganistic? And King James, Martin Luther, Henry VIII etc are heretics, they are rememberd as the people who made Christianity a mockery!! Your arguments are so predictable and laughable its not even worth 10 cents, no wonder there are 40,000+ Christian denominations!!

    • ray

      YOU SAID: His name, which wasn’t Jesus and infact means his character, not his moniker. It wasn’t Jesus because the letter J did not exist until 500 yrs ago, not only that…

      ANSWER – CCC Catechism 460:80 does not mean that man can become God, if you notice the word “gods” is not capitalized, but rather that he becomes a god, by God’s divine fiat, a work of His, the Potter molding the clay into His desired creation. This has always been Gods will for us, because He wants the best for man, who’s already made in His image, potentially an emanation or expression of His nature, and there’s nothing better than to be God, which man already knew intuitively, and attempted to attain, but the wrong way:

      - 398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God”, but “without God, before God, and with God”.279

      - Apart from God man can do nothing, to paraphrase John 15:5. Man can’t be God; our very existence will always depend on Him, but man can participate in Gods nature, experiencing the pure, ineffable happiness that this goodness entails.

      - If you are so critical of false preachers then you can just look on no other than in your false end timers / preachers such as: John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Kenneth Copeland, Mike Evans, Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Tim LaHaye, Paul Crouch, Ed McAteer, Jim Baker, Franklin Graham, James Dobson and Jimmy Swaggart they all follow the false doctrine of christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’. They are all pro-’e's’ra’he’ll’ preachers that promotes war under the vicious lies of neo-conservativism.

      • Cat

        In what way did you just answer this???…..”YOU SAID: His name, which wasn’t Jesus and infact means his character,
        not his moniker. It wasn’t Jesus because the letter J did not exist
        until 500 yrs ago, not only that…”

        and why are you reciting more roman pagan hogwash to me and claiming that I have false end timers?? Oh I see, you think I am a protestant, well sir, you judge me incorrectly. All of your christian churches are pagan because rome gave them that understanding…didn’t you know that you got crucified and burned at the stake for speaking against them?

      • JuliePurple

        Actually, the thing about the name — it’s more or less like calling John “Ivan” or “Juan” or “Sean”; they’re just variants on the same name. So it would have been Yeshua or somethink like that (later “Joshua”) at that time. As I understand it, it was a pretty common name then and there. That’s the trouble with translations: a lot of changes are made. Some are minor, some make for a lot of misunderstandings.

    • ray

      YOU SAID: If you truly believed in him, you would seek the truth, just incase you are slandering his name….which you are. If you dont believe in him and you dont care less if you have the truth or not, why bother arguing…huh….

      ANSWER – How many Martyrs and Saints that have died in the Name of Father and of The Son and of The Holy Ghost (Holy Trinity) throughout history – Thousands!!! And They Are All CATHOLICS, they have all lived the Sacramental Life, now let me ask you this… How many apostate ”z”i”o”-evangelicals have died for Christ, His Church and The Faith???? – NADA!!! Because they are not true followers of Christ!!! All talk but no walk.. LOL.

      - The Catholic Church have the truth because our Church was established by Christ, Our Church have a direct connection to the Early Church Fathers – St. Justin Martyr, St. Ignatius of Antioch, Tertulian, St. Clement, mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3, St. Polycarp, St. Iraneaus, St. Ambrose, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Athanasius, St. Clement of Rome, St. Augustine and St. Jerome. They are all students of the Apostles and have a direct connection to them. Now is your sect/cult/denomination in any way have a direct connection to Christ’s Apostles? NONE!!! Because all of them are registered corporations (LLC’s), all established by men. LOL…..

      - If you want to be highly critical of false doctrines then you should look no other than in your false and unbiblical teachings – christian-*’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, social gospel, prosperity gospel, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation, etc. NOW WHERE CAN YOU FIND ALL THESE EVANGELICAL INVENTIONS IN THE BIBLE????

      • ray

        test test

      • ray

        test

      • Char25

        Good going my friend, some people need to use a huge size Q-tip to clean their ears and the same size loop to read the word of God without having to point fingers accusing the real heroes of the Bible. I truly believe these kind of people are sent by the devil himself to confuse the believers! And by reading a good and detail response like yours they would have a chance to save themselves before the enemy drags them into his trap!

      • Cat

        Some people need to study the actual words in the bible, ie original scripture, before commenting blindly on the posts of other blind commentors.

        The blind leading the blind indeed. Devil means slanderer, I do not need saving from a fake malevolent being that rome created. I need saving from you lot of ignoramuses, who claim to love the lord yet ignore his words, slander his name, persecute his people, fail to do their research and sit in arrogant positions as is the done thing with you catholics. Quite frankly I am sick of your hypocrisy, you disgust me, and we’ll see who is right when the day arrives. Very soon I believe.

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, girl, you’re really getting your hate on and running with it, aren’t you?

      • Char2014

        From Psalm 112.-

        “A light shines in the dark for those who are good,
        for those who are merciful, kind, and fair.
        It is good for people to be kind and generous
        and to be fair in business.”

        I applaud you my dear, you can’t wait for the day to see all of us “Hypocrite Catholics” grilling in hell. What a beautiful expression of faith and love “in our Lord Jesus Christ.”

        I bow to you and your amazing way of reasoning in what you consider “our confusion.” For God is love, He is faith, friendship and if you see your brother or sister “us”going astray you should let them grab onto your shoulder because we are all seeking the same to get save.

        When I give my opinion to “anyone I see confused” I try to help them out, to get out of the darkness. But you are all of the contrary, you can’t wait to push us down (with your merciless attitude), stepping on our heads to see all of us drown.

        “All you catholics” we are not confused for our love is with our brethren “you and others like you.” You accuse our church, the true church of Christ, Jesus established it two thousand years ago, and is still standing, not like any groups of “so called Christians” that jump from one church to the next (buildings) because you don’t agree with your pastors, leaders or your community.

        To which means your church is not lead by the Holy Spirit, like the Catholic church is, two thousand years, and still standing. Many faults? Yes, but also God tell us in His word:

        “Jeremiah 17:5
        This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.”

        And I say to you, that if anything in my church do not agree with my spirit, that means something is wrong and I don’t judge their actions, because God will, not me, they made mistakes and will continue to do so, but they are mere humans like your pastors if you have any, they are not the saints you may think they are, because all of us are sinners therefore we will be committing transgressions until the day we die!

        I don’t owe you or any other lunatic anything and I don’t care what happened to you and the other bunch of heathen out there that criticizes our church and faith.

        But I do my best for Jesus who taught me to have mercy, patience and love for you and your kind. I do care in Him, for I will be leaving in the flesh otherwise. You said “you are sick of Catholics,” the same way people was sick of Jesus.

        I don’t disagree with you our Church had messed up big time, and us Catholic had done a lot of “wrong” but we are humans and even Peter denied Jesus three times and he is in heaven and he was given the “Keys” of Heaven.

        The Lord in His wisdom gave the keys of heaven to St.Peter to lead his church, and catholics which means “Universal Church” is the church that comes out straight from the hands of Peter the apostle, if anyone messed up, they had to deal with the Lord when their time comes out.

      • Cat

        “How many Martyrs and Saints that have died in the Name of Father and of
        The Son and of The Holy Ghost (Holy Trinity) throughout history –
        Thousands!!! And They Are All CATHOLICSYou dont find catechisms in the bible either”
        I wonder why? Half of the saints that Rome claims to have been catholic, were not catholic at all….but like everything else, you just believe it.

        “NOW WHERE CAN YOU FIND ALL THESE EVANGHELLLICAL INVENTIONS IN THE BIBLE????”

        Yeah you don’t find Pope this and Pope that, and Holy Roman Empire, nor catechisms and lists of cardinal and deadly sins in the bible either….Is it one rule for you and another for everyone else.

    • ray

      YOU SAID: I think you should take the words of the Lord seriously, when he tells you to ‘seek the truth’ and not forgetting ‘few will be saved’ seeing as there are….

      -ANSWER: Baptism, is historically a Christian practice, it is Scriptural and is believed by the Apostles, Early Church Fathers and The Martyrs.

      - Raising the Dead, Healing the Sick has been going on in the Catholic Church since time and memorial such examples are: St. Vincent Ferrer, St. Francis of Paola, Venerable John Baptist Tholomei, St. Bernardine of Siena, St. John Capistrano, St. Francis of Paola, St. Joseph of Cupertino, St. Peter of Alcantara, St. Dominic, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Philip Neri, St. Paul of the Cross, St. John Bosco, Blessed James Salomoni, St. Agnes of Montepulciano, Blessed Constantius of Fabrino, Blessed Sadoc and Companions, Blessed Mark of Modena, Blessed Ceslas, Blessed Augustine of Bugela, Colomb a of Rieti, St. Rose of Lima, St. Martin de Porres, St. Francis Solanus, Marianne de Jesus of Quito, Blessed Sebastian of Apparizio, St. Bernard of Abbeville, St. Stanislaus of Cracow, St. James of Tarentaise, St. Cyril of Constantinople, St. Peregrine, St. Philip Benizi, Bl. Peter Armengol, Blessed Eustachio, St. Gerard Majella, St. Charbel Makhlouf, St. Padre Pio, St. Margaret of Cortona, St. Felix of Cantalice, St. Rose of Viterbo, St. Pacific of San Severino, St. Hyacinth, St. Louis Bertrand, St. Francis Xavier, St. John Francis Regis, St. Andrew Bobola; St. Francis Jerome, Brother Antony Pereyra, and St. Patrick, the Apostle of Ireland.

    • Char25

      If you are so smart and knowledgeble you should take the Pope’s throne and sit there and direct all Catholics, we gladly should follow you, dummy. You think priests and the Catholic church are ignorant? They are the ones who translated the Bible. Regardless of sins they had committed, they are in charged and God will deal with them if they screwed up.

      Anyhow, the Bible, the word of God it doesn’t make sense to the logic of men. You need to walk by faith, tradition and by following your leaders, that is how it is explained. If they do wrong, the follower is not guilty, read that and pay attention to detail.

      The Virgin Mary, was without sin, because if Jesus was going to be born into our world, he could not come from a sinner, he had to be without sin even from the womb of his mother, otherwise how do you expect him to be without sin, since all the generations from Adam and Eve are sinful, Mary was a creature created like no other, she had to be made like Jesus without sin, (is a long story I just wanted to give you an idea,)

      I am not going to enter into an argument, but I also wanted to give you a piece of my mind, since obviously you are a messenger of the adversary and not a messenger of light. One more thing, Mary was chosen from amongst all the generations of men, it doesn’t matter if she was chosen two thousand years ago, nor before nor after was going to be born a creature like her, so there!

      • Cat

        I would take no throne, as I have no right to take a throne, nor authority over what humanity believes…dummy. Heres what i would say thoug….keep the commandments and take the advice of the Lord in his gospel and do not listen to the doctrine of men….and i would tell you to preach that, so how can I be under the influence of the devil??? The maiden mary buddy…two different words. It doesn’t say…
        “The Virgin Mary, was without sin, because if Jesus was going to be born
        into our world, he could not come from a sinner, he had to be without
        sin even from the womb of his mother, otherwise how do you expect him to
        be without sin, since all the generations from Adam and Eve are sinful,
        Mary was a creature created like no other, she had to be made like
        Jesus without sin”
        …in the bible, this is the doctrine of man. I will listen to the all mighty Lord and not you, nor your preachers, nor your Pope, nor your churches and chapels. Good day.

      • Char2014

        Take the throne Sherlock, it seems that you are disgusted because you want to sit in their seats so you can have the power to send the rest of us to hell. Mary is the mother of God, for god sake “What’s wrong with you?” Well is written in the Bible:

        Do Not Judge…5″You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6″Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

        Mathew 7:6

      • Nicole Ansley Guajardo

        You said “The Virgin Mary, was without sin, because if Jesus was going to be born into our world, he could not come from a sinner, he had to be without sin even from the womb of his mother, otherwise how do you expect him to be without sin”

        Jesus is GOD who is holy and sinless. Jesus who is GOD (In case you don’t understand) can be born into this world and be without sin. Catholics are trying to make Mary into something she is not. She was a woman who GOD decided would birth Jesus Christ. You Catholic’s are wrong. You pray to Mary, you bow down to statues and pray to saints and worship them!!!!! Read the KJV and you will see that what you all are doing is wrong. Your GOD isn’t the same GOD that i love and worship. You are worshiping Satan! He has deceived you all. I will Pray that the truth can be shown to you.

      • JuliePurple

        This whole topic of being “born without sin” is totally bogus. All babies are without sin. The myth of original sin is simply a means for rationalizing the need for a saviour. Period.

      • noni

        Yeah, you’re right. What need is a saviour for? From “sin”? Where did sin come from? From God! Why did God created sin and then save us from it. Doesn’t make sense.

      • JuliePurple

        Good point, Noni. Then again, if you’re looking for sense, you would do well to look for it in a source other than one based on tribal legend, xenophobia, and lack of accurate scientific data.

      • ray

        Sin and evil came from the devil not from God, God gave us (humans) and angels Free will (freedom) to choose what is wrong and what is right, without free will we will be like animals and plants – only living by our own natural instincts. Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat the fruit in 1 specific tree, with all the trees in the Garden of Eden, they still chose one were the serpent (devil) was slumming, how idiotic is this?? That is why they fell from grace and satan was cursed in Genesis 3:15.

      • JuliePurple

        Myth, myth, myth. Made up. Not real. Pretend.

      • ray

        So tell me right now why do you exist? Where do you came from? Please don’t tell me that you come from a monkey, that is even more than a myth, they have never proven that.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, if you don’t believe that evolution happened and is happening, then I really don’t have anything to say to you. Because evolution has been proven. If you are lacking the education and training to understand how that is so, that is not the fault of the science, but a lack in your understanding.

      • ray

        The Banksters thru their masonic-Illuminati deception use Darwinism to reduce man from a potential angel (the religious view) to an ape. They created Darwin to replace the Divine Presence with a cruel and random universe governed by survival of the fittest. Darwinism empowered the Illuminati. They have sponsored Freud, Darwin and all other diabolical agents to move society out from God and replace it with their diabolical ideals, this is part of their spiritual warfare, all coming from the Frankfurt School. Their is no evidence of a “Peking Man”, “Neanderthal Man” or whatsoever, just like Climate change, wars, feminism all for the destruction of humanity to advance their world masonic superstate agenda.

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, Ray, that’s just absurd. All of it. Absurd. While it is true that the Peking Man was a hoax, there is solid evidence for Neanderthal Man. And “Darwinism”, as you call it, would be more likely to *eliminate* hatred between groups, because of its showing that we all evolved in a similar fashion. Where do you come up with this stuff?
        May I ask what level of school did you complete? And what kind of school?
        And the only “elite” that supports the teaching of valid science (as opposed to religious claptrap) is the group that are “elite” because of having been educated. If you were to do a little research in reputable databases, you would find that you are sadly mistaken.
        Once again, I am prompted to share that comment of Thomas Paine: “To argue with one who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”

      • ray

        You have no reasoning at all, everything you say is a blank slate, this is what have they done in the past 60 years when The Rockefeller foundation took over education, science and the medicine industry, packaging it as intellectualism, modernism. Darwinism was a perfect tool to sell communism for the elites, that God is irrelevant (everything is just a means to the end), thesame with nazism, the perfect master race (subjugation and holocaust) and justifying their eugenics programs, both have killed billions in a span of 3-4 decades, and still expanding right now by campaigning wars both big and small in every corner of the world, now you call this progress? That is why all these so called “isms” and “idealogies” have a genocidal aspect on it. An absence of God and spirituality in society is easily sold on wars, destruction and genocide – happening in the Western World. How can you say that education (going to a controlled college or university) is a good thing? All they do is to indoctrinate you with diabolical and destructive thinking with no emphasis on critical thinking at all. Look at their system right now – All a systemic failure!! Because of this line of elite thinking. You talk about evolution? Why what happened to Man? Does he have 4 sets of eyes now, the last time I checked the African man still has a darker skin, The Asian man has smaller eyes, The white man still has lighter eyes, and women can still breastfeed and have children. Why do you still allow yourself to be lied upon by the mainstream press and controlled media/education. Try do more a little research? Everything that happened in our society is by design!! By the Elites, Nothing is an accident, they have prevented the real evolution of man! And they uttermost hate religions especially Catholicism because they promote beliefs that is contrary to theirs!! Why do you think they are getting rid of anything related to Christianity these days? Because that is an obstacle to their diabolical goals!! Stop denying and ignoring this like it would be progressive to society! It is regression and definitely devolution of life, humanity and society.

      • JuliePurple

        whoa, tinfoil hat time again!
        It is apparently as I thought: Ray has had very little education. It shows.

      • ray

        How can that be “tin foil” the top dogs elites admitted and bragged about their crimes?

        “For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure–one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it. – David Rockefeller

        - In 1849 Gutele Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s wife dies. Before her death she would state, “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.”

        So snap out of your “everything is fine mentality” and wake up to reality, and there was no advancement of men in the last 80 years as they claim it to be.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, this is my last response to you. Nowhere did I state or imply that “everything is fine”. The brainwashing of so many ignorant people by the religious right is a case in point. In difficult times, the temptation to resort to fairy tales is irresistable for too many people. Wealthy people are using religion and anything else they can think of to delude the majority of the population, in order to conserve and expand their wealth. This is not in dispute.
        The quote from Rockerfeller is inconclusive, since as it stands it is unrelated to any specific charge. Re: Rothschild: people make a lot of statements . Some are true, some are not.
        Your introduction of non sequiturs is a fine way to avoid answering the question about your education, by the way.
        I wish you well. But I’m done responding to your silliness.

      • ray

        If you were reading my past comments, I am the one exposing to the “burned again cults” that the religious right is usurped i.e. evangelicalism and the problem is you always think that it is confined only to a religion, it is not! It is just as worst as in the academic circles posing itself as intellectualism and I am not part of either cults, both are played out in their left-right paradigm, just pick your own favorite team, and definitely, I do not avoid questions, you accused me of being a conspiracy theorists and I am refutting that by giving you examples of how they have designed everything to their own benefit through thru their own statements, so that is very conclusive, everything that I have commented in this blog, I have always backed it up. The Rothschild’s statements are not made by other people, it is from their own arrogance, and no ordinary person can think like this – because International Banking finance has always bragged about their accomplishments: Depressions, Wars, Revolutions, Famine, Genocide, etc, The only one silly is you, because you haven’t answered where you came from? and why do you exist in this world?, You will always chuck the religion is a fairy tale thing, because you don’t have any critical thinking at all, just another sheep mentality, you are just reinforcing on how shallow secular / aetheist community really is – an appeasement or approval to other people to be so called intelligent.

      • Connor Worryer Eatwell

        Hey so I’m nowhere near as bright as you guys, but I’ve been reading through some of the comments and just thought I’d drop in my two pence worth. Would it help, JuliePurple, if you viewed sin as a deformation of the human state more than a simple rule broken? It’s us denying what we were born to be, what God wants us to be; creatures of Love and Grace who seek the Truth. As a Catholic I believe that these can all be attained through Our Lord Jesus Christ. This doesn’t mean that reason can’t lead us to the same truth (as Aquinas attempted to show) but it does become a lot harder as our preconceptions make us cover our ears and eyes. A lot of the above comments show this mentality, along with little jabs at each other along the way that only serve to blind us with annoyance and the beginnings of hatred for each other. I could be totally wrong, but I feel like maybe if we each looked into each others ideas, quietly refuted those which were incorrect and seriously considered those that had merit then we should be able to reach some semblance of unity and agreement?

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Connor
        You seem bright enough to me; you write clearly and make your points in a sensible way.
        However, I disagree with your conclusions, here and there. First of all, your own preconceptions lead you to the conclusion that “sin” is “a deformation of the human state”. I hold that the human state is simply a composite of many different characteristics that run the gamut from good to bad. Some people lean more to one side, some to the other. As for the rule broken, if you’re referring to the Adam and Eve myth, and the subsequent tarring of later humanity with the same brush, so to speak, well, I think that the term “myth” pretty much sums it up.
        We are already creatures of love and grace (however you define “grace”), generosity, kindness, and altruism. We are also creatures of pettiness, cruelty, and greed and that ilk. We are all of it. Human survival has needed many different types of people for the group as a whole to flourish, and likewise, it also benefits when humans show care for the welfare of the group as a whole. These characteristics are exhibited in many other animals, particularly social animals, besides humans. It doesn’t need any supernatural intervention for it to make sense.
        I’m not saying that there is no god as such, but I am certainly saying that the degree of intervention by such an entity that some people assume, is simply ludicrous.

        I am doubtful that much in the line of unity or agreement can be reached about some of the concepts, due to our having rather different ideas about some of the basics. For example, what is incorrect to one, is not to another. But I very much like the feeling of your posting, which is that we discuss ideas in a rational manner. However, I admit to being frustrated by comments that introduce hyperbolic non sequiturs as a matter of course, and fail to answer direct questions.
        I like you, Connor. You seem to be a kind and sensible person. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, though.

      • Connor Worryer Eatwell

        Fair enough, I guess when discussing the human state it really comes around to the philosophy of what is right and wrong coupled with what we know about how different events affect people etc. I maintain that there is a spiritual aspect which does affect people, and that Our Saviour does love us and has intervened. I can’t really argue like you guys can but I know from personal experiences and looking at the unified theme behind some philosophy’s and other world religions that the Catholic faith holds the Truth, it’s just a matter of nutting it out.

        Yea it does seem that way, I guess it just saddens me to see so many aggressive posts from so many people who seem to want to seek the truth but focus more on ripping out other people for their ideas. It’s a common theme in society (at least from my experience) where anything counter to currently held practice is abused rather than talked to or debated with.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Connor. I found several messages in my in-box from discus today about responses from this forum. I saved yours for last, because I figured I’d need a dose of reasonable conversation. :-)
        Oh, I need to ask: who do you mean, exactly, when you say “you guys”? Me and who else? Because I’m only speaking for myself, nobody else. Just curious.
        You certainly hit it right on the button when you said about people being more concerned with ripping people apart than discussing the actual ideas. I admit to being guilty of some of that, myself. It is difficult to maintain objectivity when facing ad hominem attacks, vacuous non sequiturs, and blatantly illogical ravings. I need to work on it. :-)
        I think the problem is that when people’s cherished beliefs are called into question, the first response is to defend the beliefs at all costs, rather than to actually think about them and see what makes sense. That, I find to be extremely sad. Because it says to me that the ideas that they are defending won’t hold up to scrutiny, they know it, and refuse to admit it. If an idea is sound, it should stand up to serious investigation, don’t you think?
        So. Back to the topic. I agree that there is a spiritual aspect to things, but we might differ in how we define it. I also agree that love can be very spiritual, and either way is a powerful force for good, probably in more ways than we understand. I simply disagree about the biblical legends and so forth. For example, scholarly concensus is that Jesus (Yeshua, Joshua, however the name changed over time) did exist, was baptised, and was crucified. There is insufficient reliable evidence to support any of the rest of it. The only evidence is from people who had a vested interest in perpetuating miracle stories, and in any case did not consider historical accuracy to be of prime importance, to say the least.
        Well… that’s enough for one posting! I look forward to continuing this conversation with you!

      • Char2014

        What are you doing here waisting your time Sherlock?

      • JuliePurple

        Char, “waist” is the midpoint of an object, such as the waistline of a person. “Waste” is surplus matter to be discarded. Since that’s the second time (at least) that you’ve misused that word, I thought someone ought to give you a heads up about it.
        Assuming you meant “wasting” my time, I wonder why you think a simple disagreement is a waste. For myself, I appreciate the give and take of reasonable debate and exchange of ideas. Sometiimes, it has happened here, such as in discussions with Yara Greyjoy, Connor Worryer, and a few others. But sadly, too often it degenerates into insults and non sequiturs. Still, the thoughtful exchanges make it worthwhile.

      • noni

        In Genesis, God created the heaven and the earth and on earth, he created the animals, the plants, and humans. It didn’t mention about the devil. So, where did the devil come from if not from God? Don’t tell us that the devil is like God without a beginning.

      • Char2014

        How old are you? Are you for real? How you ever read the Bible once? Are you a little boy, or girl? Let me know so I can be more kind to you. You are desperately in need of some Bible classes “ASAP” enroll quickly. I recommend any Christian denomination not affiliated to “extremists” like Jehova’s witness, or Mormons, or fanatics like Pentecostals in other words do not join any cults. You may join any evangelicals, or Catholics they would help you a great deal, because you are bumping against the rocks, you can harm yourself with people like JuliePurple, she is a black sheep who is God’s enemy. Do not trust her!

      • JuliePurple

        Char, honey, it’s not your call as to how or what someone else believes. Noni can make her own decisions.
        Thanks for singling me out, though. It gives me a good feeling when someone of your ilk decides I’m a threat. Thank you!

      • noni

        I don’t think God has enemies. God is love. When you love, you love even your enemies. Therefore God has no enemies. So, why did you call Julie God’s enemy? You don’t sound like a Catholic. Why tell me not to trust Julie? She is God’s creation just like you and me. Ah l know, maybe you are the devil that God created in the guise of a man/woman, just like the serpent that tempted Eve. If we rewrite Genesis, it would run like this: In the beginning, God created Julie and me. In order to test our loyalty to God, God created Char. I’ll leave to you the conclusion.

      • JuliePurple

        Noni, that was awesome!

      • Char2014

        You are more than lost. Read the Bible, do not guess your answers like a retard. God created everything, and then created man, male and female he created them, to his likeness similar in everything but sin.

        Sin is a condition man choose on his own, because like many smart a*** in this world of today think that living a life Godlessly is a better way. Anyhow sin is a chosen condition, the master and creator is the devil himself.

        It is your choice, don’t blame it on God! Choosing God is not easy, is a hard battle, choosing the devil is very easy, just follow your animal nature and become what is easy for us sinners, to give the devil the satisfaction that we chosen him over our creator.

      • JuliePurple

        Char, if you must disagree, at least please don’t insult Noni. She is a sweet person who doesn’t deserve that.

      • Char2014

        I think you should fight your own battles, and let her tell me if she feels offended by my reprimands. Even Jesus told the canaanite woman something that to you, or to many may sound like a nasty remark, read this —>

        Mathew 15-26

        He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

        We should understand Jesus’ words here not as an outright rejection of the Gentiles, but as a fulfillment of prophecy, a setting of priorities, and a test of the woman’s faith.

        What I am doing with Noni is exhorting her faith. And to watch herself and stop tricking people into confusion, because she knows more than she claims she does!

      • JuliePurple

        No, Char, you’re not “exhorting her faith”; you’re just being unkind. And here’s a bit of information for you: you don’t get to decide what I may or may not say. Too many people don’t speak up when they see someone being treated unfairly.
        Your quote, by the way, is not relevant to the point.

      • Char2014

        Yes it is relevant to the point, the problem with you is that you are more worried to get your nose involved in someone else’s business than in your own. The quote talks about “offending someone” but behind what to others “like you” with Noni, there is a lesson!

        PS:Obviously you can’t understand it, because you are more concerned what happened on your neighbor’s home, than inside yours!

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, Char, you’re really going on about this. I never said nor thought that Noni was unintelligent. I see her as someone who is not only bright, but kind. You’re reading something into this situation that isn’t there. And you yourself are telling Noni what to do; read back your own postings and see.
        It’s sad that you think it’s minding someone else’s business to speak up against injustice. And believe me, if I heard a scary fight going on in my neighbor’s home, I surely would be concerned, and would call the cops. I infer from your remarks that you’d just let the family be hurt. You might want to think about that.
        By the way, quotation marks are properly used simply when quoting someone or something else, not for emphasis. The current convention for emphasis in online text, when italics or underlining is not available, is to surround the part you wish to emphasize by an asterisk on each side.
        By the way, if you have something to say, then write it out yourself. Because I don’t know why you would think the Matthew 15-26 section is relevant: it’s about Jesus saying “Your faith is great, your request is granted”, and her daughter was healed. That’s more or less how it goes, according to my research. See, if you write it out yourself, you can see whether or not it’s relevant.
        I get that you don’t like me. That is certainly your prerogative. However, it makes more sense to base any criticism you have of me on actual facts, rather than manufactured events. That way, your comments would not look so foolish.

      • Char2014

        Hi Julie, thank you for the editing lessons, I will take that in good consideration, although I still don’t agree with the rest of your comments for two reasons, either you are not understanding clearly the true intensions of my answers or you have the same issue of faith and redemption for your soul.

        The text I sent is not exactly the meaning of itself, instead is the way people may perceive as an humiliation calling someone actually “a dog” for many that would be an offense and for others since canines are so loved in society been compared to one may not be offensive at all, but that is the perspective I was pointing to.

        I celebrate you speak against injustice and I would do the same that you mention in case I witness a crime, neighbor’s fight, a hit and run, etc. But obviously you like to disagree with me in everything because you are using foolish “unwise” situations to push my buttons when in reality you are not. Because I know who I am, and I am not the person you are trying to describe.

        What you are doing is making noise here and there to distract the whole point of your position as an “adversary of God” and let me tell you, he is not guilty of your anger, position or disappointments in your life. God is a loving father who made this earth and everything in it for his little ones, his loved ones “us” but what do we do?

        We go after him, we question him, we want to discredit him and discredit his words by acting up the way you are acting. You blame God for the people who claims they are part of God’s plans and they mess up, God is not guilty of any of our acts of disobedience, or the pain and sorrow we can cause others!

        God isn’t guilty that things in life are tough, that men through history had kept the majority of us in the dark, in the ignorance of our own choices. God isn’t guilty many of us love the power to control others, make their lives miserable so we can accumulate wealth. God isn’t guilty that we go around the world living a life of corruption having sex like animals and then decide that we own our bodies “God’s temples” and have abortions spilling the blood of the innocent and tossed them in the trash like garbage.

        “God isn’t simply guilty of our transgressions, and we are the ones choosing Hell instead of his glory, because we despise Him for making us weak, for toying with us when he made paradise and he knew we were going to eat that fruit and since our little deplorable lives are doom.”

        God isn’t guilty, no ma’am He is not. We are making our choices. He is here telling us, “Hey don’t worry, I forgive you, come back to papa, I love you, stop your nonsense, look I sent you my only son to die on the cross so you can be forgiven.”

        What do we do? We are bitter, angry and behave like a teenager. With a destructive attitude. You know what God? Go to hell, I want to destroy myself an use my “insect brain” and define that you don’t exists, you are a product of my imagination, you suck at being God. I DON’T WANT YOU IN MY LIFE. Let me be the insect with brains that I am, I know how to take care of my own self with my words, and deductions, with my insignificant intelligence that makes me a horrible human being, but to the world, I am one of them. We sit on the throne of the lost. Because what we want is your place, we want to be GOD, so we can make your Heaven and turn it into something more exciting, party, drugs, money, sex, crime, hate, riches, beauty, etc.

      • JuliePurple

        Hi, Char
        About the text reference, did you double check to see what the passage you cited is referring to? Because it had nothing to do with a dog. Would you please check again, and give the correct reference so I can see what you’re talking about?

        About speaking against injustice: no, I really don’t automatically like to disagree with anybody! I am responding to a specific claim you made, i.e., that I was more concerned with what happens in my neighbors’ home, and that your statement implied that you were not. (And please note, I did give the caveat: “I infer from your statement”, which indicates just that.) Pardon me if I assumed it was a statement which applied to all circumstances; I simply took it at face value.

        Again, your quotation marks are inappropriate: nowhere did I describe myself as an “adversary of God” (I was quoting you, there). Let me clarify my position about deities and belief. I do not know if God or god or goddess or gods exist. I hope there is at least one, but there is insufficient incontrovertible evidence available to humans to make that determination. What we have are legends and wishful thinking.
        However, the deity depicted in the bible is simply not believable. Any entity capable of creating a universe
        would not stoop to such pettiness, such hypocrisy, such vicious, vindictive, pathological behaviour as that depicted in the bible. That deity is the creation of the mindset of a primitive, xenophobic, misogynistic, superstitious tribe. The god of the bible is reprehensible. Luckily, it does not exist. Likewise, the horrific restrictions, rules and punishments of the bible are all made up by humans, as well. Also, the character of Jesus is largely invented by the early Christians. The
        consensus of reputable scholars is that the character of Jesus did exist, was baptized, and was crucified. The rest of it: all the sermons, sayings, miracles, are heresay and legend. (note: that is here-say, not “heresy”; it’s a small but important difference. :-)

        My belief is that if there is a god, it must be the totality
        of all the natural laws (i.e., gravity, the speed of light, osmosis, etc.). *Those* laws are, indeed, eternal. The only thing I wonder about regarding it is: is that totality possessed of consciousness and/or will? Again, I hope so, but I don’t know.

        Try not to make assumptions that just because I think the biblical god is a fairy tale, that therefore I am interested in drugs, partying, and so forth. The extended reference to a petulant teenager is your invention; it has nothing to do with me. I am not in the least bit angry at god. If there is a god who created this wonderful universe, he/she has my love, admiration, and respect. And the god of the bible does not deserve my anger, since he does not exist. I am, however, annoyed with humans who perpetuate the illusion of such a horror. (And that annoyance extends as well to the inventors of all the other horrible gods of other religions.) And Char, it is really, really arrogant of you to think you have any idea of my habits, inclinations, or the state of my soul.

        I hope you are able to distinguish the difference between my antipathy to the idea of the god of the bible, and my reverence for the *real* creator of the universe. It would be really good if you were to read my comments carefully, and not interject your own assumptions into my statements.

      • Char2014

        Hey this form of communication is really bad, I thought words in the written form is a good way to transmit the human thought without many issues. But I see that you are not getting my message, something is blocking that in your mind. No wonder the Bible does not make a lot of sense to many people who argue “The Holy Book,” is senseless, confusing, and at times a fairytale for the many “so called ‘contradictions’ that are found in its pages.”

        I would like to clarify one thing with you, I never accused you of any thing. That would be judging you and believe me,that is not my purpose, nor my intension. Maybe I am to passionate when I express myself, it runs in my Italian-Jewish blood transmitted through my ancestors in the mix Lol. What I said to you in my previous message it had nothing to do with most of your complaints (in a way yes, but not directly) And I do apologize for that, if you felt this way, in a way “harassed,” is not the purpose of this site. Intelligent people submits their opinion, and in a civilize way we are trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of this “Intellectual Liaison,” is what it is, isn’t it?

        When I talk about “dogs” I agree about your deduction, but is not what I tried to say, and I think that if you didn’t get it, let’s let it rest in peace! This is the third time we talk about it and, is not going to take us any where!

        In regards of the rest of my response to you, trust me, I never ever, (in other words) my intentions were not to accuse you of anything, in anyway, shape or form.

        My life has not been easy, I had many experiences, “many” I stopped believing and you want to know the funny thing is that I did stop believing when I was around eight. I grew up Catholic, and went to Catholic schools, and my grandparents were devoted Catholics, and my parents were a little religious not so ardent in the faith but you can called them “traditional.”

        Even so, I had my battle inside of me, everything started with doubts here, and doubts there. It is a long story, I don’t think you are interested on hearing. And I am not here seeking counseling, Lol. On the contrary, I had the same thoughts that you are mentioning here, listening to you, is like listening to myself a few years back! Maybe a little more than two years!

        Anyhow, I grew up and decided religion sucks and God was a myth, (the God from the Bible that is) My life went well, everything was coming my way in a positive manner, you know as humanly possible.

        But when I thought that everything was as splendid, and finally the American dream had become a reality for accomplishing my hard work and efforts. The ones I had worked so hard to accomplished during my lifetime, it was there, right on my hands, I could feel it breathing,

        “The Titanic of my life,” sinked to the bottomless pitt, I hit the tip of the iceberg (sort to speak) My health went down the drain, and I lost it all. “Imagine that!” My life, and everything that I strived for all my life, my hard work and accomplishments turned to dust from one day to the next.

        Why am I telling you this? Well there is a simple reason for that, my previous message, it is a general message, it has nothing to do with you personally. Although it is “in a way,” the story of my life, and many others that shared my beliefs and points of view.

        I never compared you to an oversexed, drug addict, horrible teenager. For the way you express yourself, I know you are an intellectual with more years than that and a person with a real brain on her shoulders! And I can intuit many other things you’ll be surprise, Lol.

        If you don’t agree with me in the spiritual level, it has nothing to do with my message. I merely pointed at you, the world’s critical condition as we speak and in general. With this I am not also saying all the teenagers or sons and daughters of men are “capute” either! Lol.

        But there is a lot of solitude in the lives of many, and they do not want anyone to come near so they put on a shield and that is what turn them astray from a life of responsibilities and commitments, etc. etc. And the worst part is turning against God (The God from the Bible). Hence the name “God’s adversaries.”

      • JuliePurple

        Char, before you decide that “something is blocking
        that” in my mind, it would be better if you were to re-read what you have written to see if maybe you could have been clearer. Because it seems to me that the only thing that is “blocking my mind” from understanding your writing, is my tendency to form logical deductions.

        Since you agree with my deduction about the dogs, then do you understand why I said it is good to re-read and clarify before posting?

        I appreciate your saying that your previous message had nothing to do with what I had written. But then I must ask you why you wrote it in response to my osting? Because a logical person would expect a response to be relevant. And since you just admitted it wasn’t, what was the point of it, then?

        I have sympathy for the difficulties you have endured; I do not wish hardship on anyone. But please understand that many of us have gone through difficulties and changes regarding beliefs and life in general. I certainly have. And I don’t think there is anyone here who does not have views and experiences that are or have been shared by many other people. Some people agree wholeheartedly with your point of view, some with mine, and everything in between and outside of both. It used to be generally agreed by the overwhelming majority of the population that the world was flat. That didn’t make it true. And that isn’t the point. Neither is the condition of the world in general. Neither is the fact that a lot of people are solitary and wish to avoid responsibility (though of course solitude is not the cause of avoiding responsibility!).
        In the future, it might aid in the understanding of your postings if you were to indicate that you are simply writing to express your views and that is has nothing to do with the topic at hand. That course of action would greatly help to avoid misunderstanding. So would carefully considering your choice of words.

        As for whether we agree on the spiritual level, it’s
        impossible to say from the messages here. I see and experience spirituality as something deeper than can be
        expressed by words. To paraphrase the Tao Te Ching, if you can talk about it, that isn’t it.

        As for the bible, you think it’s a really great, reliable document. A lot of people do. I’d hesitate before claiming it has good moral lessons, though. Remember the stories in which god wipes out entire towns and tribes, down to the least infant, for the actions of one
        person, or for no apparent reason at all? Where is the moral lesson in that? There are so very many instances of reprehensible behaviour by the god of the bible. The only conceivable moral lesson a clear thinking person could take from that is “don’t act like that”.

        It might help you to be more tolerant of opposing viewpoints if you were to bear in mind that many people require facts, logic, accurate data, and the absence of evidence contradicting the claims made. Instead of calling those people “God’s adversary”, why not just think of them as people who prefer real evidence, and let it go at that?

      • Char2014

        Hmmm…I think that I would not like to reply as I wish to your response Julie. Because we are going to have a he said she said redundant conversation that is not worth to waste our times in this.

        You are claiming that you do your homework before you say anything based on what? Based on what for you is “your reality” I have my own reality and obviously we are not going to agree about one thing or the other, Lol…

        But I would like to propose a business deal, (everything is legal and interesting at least for me) I think you probably would like at least to hear me out. I promise you is nothing indecent (God forbids) or illegal. Is in reference of the same thing we are doing here (what do you say?) this is my email: one word, all together all lower case: c s ol793@ yahoo. com (I separated because I don’t know if they allow me to share my email address.) hope to hear from you soon!

      • JuliePurple

        I’m reading back my own messages and trying to find where I ever said that I “do my homework” regarding this forum. Granted, I have studied and contemplated and done practices over the years, but I don’t believe
        I have made mention of that as such. Can you point me towards the specific message where I said that? Or give an exact quote, at least?

        However, I do totally agree that each individual has his/her own reality. No argument there!

        I will see if I can make that e-mail address work. But I must warn you ahead of time, I don’t have much money.
        I am a free lance artist… an *ethical* free lance artist. I make almost nothing. Just so you know. Also, given my age and health, I don’t have a lot of time to devote to things outside my already established activities.

      • Char2014

        Hahaha…Thank you for replying. I did send you an email, and don’t worry I am not a thief nor a cheat nor an extortionist. It will be an honor just to receive your response even if you don’t like my idea!

      • JuliePurple

        And thank you as well; that was very kind. I responded, and hope my answer will be of help to you.

      • JuliePurple

        About the editiing: I’ve found it to be really helpful to carefully read over what I’ve written, to be sure it’s as clear as I can manage. I often find that I need to edit things so that they are more clear to a reader who can’t read my mind. :-)
        Just a suggestion: it would be nice if everybody would do the same for their own postings.

      • Char2014

        Your suggestion is definitely valid! You see, we don’t disagree on everything, right? Lol, you don’t know this but it’s been a nightmare for me to write properly and follow the rules of grammar and punctuation etc.

        People just don’t care anymore and their writing turns not appealing and plain boring. I don’t even turn back to read it. I know what you mean. What I do, is go back and read my responses once more before I even post it!

        “We all deserve to be shown courtesy, and consideration.”

      • JuliePurple

        Char, I am so pleased that we are finally finding areas of agreement!
        I’m so sorry to hear that it is so difficult for you to follow grammar rules and so forth. That must be so frustrating for you! What a bummer!
        I have observed the same thing that you mentioned about a lot of people’s writing. While I won’t go so far as to say that they don’t care (how would I know what their motivations are?), I definitely see that what is written *looks* as though they don’t care. And it’s a shame, isn’t it? Because the written word can be so elegant and expressive. Ah, well, that’s just this old fuddy-duddy’s opinion! :-)

      • Char2014

        Totally agree, and I thank you for that!

      • noni

        Char, you just said in your post that “God created everything”. Wow, this is a big claim. Don’t make me wrong. You said it loud and clear “GOD CREATED EVERYTHING”.
        Everything means all things. So, before creation there was NOTHING. I will ask you, is the devil a “thing”? Anything that exist is a “thing” isn’t it. The devil exist, therefore, the devil is a thing. Hence, the devil is created by God because according to you “GOD CREATED EVERYTHING”. No question about it. By the way, do you understand logic? If you don’t, there’s no sense conversing with you.

      • JuliePurple

        Noni, try not to take Char’s comments to heart. She is being patronizing and cruel. We have a mind and intellect in order to use them, not just to blindly accept illogical stories. Don’t let her intimidate you.

      • Char2014

        Yes Einstein, we are crowning you the queen of dummies in the way to hell. Who told you all babies are sinless? If they weren’t why do they need to be Baptized? In other words, if you don’t believe in the Bible this won’t make sense to you, but lets say you don’t believe in God, then how can you say a child is sinless and a grown up is? You contradict yourself, I recommend to you to go back to basics and learn that Jesus is the only way, to eternal life, there is no other way. And if you don’t believe in Jesus, then what are you doing here waisting your time and mine?

      • ray

        Adam and Eve came to this world sinless, Jesus (2nd Adam) came into this world without sin conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary (2nd Eve), The Spouse of The Holy Ghost.

        (Genesis 3:15) 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

        Enmity (definition) positive, active, and typically mutual hatred or ill will.

        God has put enmity between Satan and Mary, this alone prevented her from committing sin. Both Jesus and Mary resisted and overcame temptations and sin, so The Immaculate Conception is a valid dogma. The bible is a Catholic Bible, you do not need to tell us to read it, The Catholic Church codified, and canonized the scriptures, we wrote the New Testament Canon based in oral and written Catholic tradition

      • Char2014

        Coward, yes that is what you are! The Lord says in the Bible two things I would like to share with you, to see if your nut size mind can get it through for once.

        This is a passage from the Bible, when Jesus was been praised while riding a white donkey.

        “As he rode along, people kept spreading their cloaks on the road. As he was now approaching the path down from the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the deeds of power that they had seen, saying, “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest heaven!”

        Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, order your disciples to stop.”

        He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the stones would shout out.”

        This is in response that we “catholics adore statues” we don’t, we are marveled that the statues praise the Lord because the World had become His enemy, we don’t care anymore and we are judge “Like you” judging others “Us Catholics” throwing the first rock because you are free of guilt?

        The second response to you is about Mary the mother of God (Jesus), read this:

        The angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:26-28

        So Mary, then, according to the angel Gabriel and the Gospel of Luke, is “blessed among women.”

        In another passage on Luke 1:41 and on, Mary inspired by the Holy Spirit said:

        “My soul glorifies the Lord
        47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
        48 for he has been mindful
        of the humble state of his servant.
        From now on all generations will call me blessed,
        49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
        holy is his name.
        50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
        from generation to generation.

        Here is why we acknowledge Mary and praise her, unlike God, but as God’s mother and pay the tributes the Holy Spirit expressed through her words—>

        “From now on all generations will call me blessed,”

      • t cook

        What I won’t do is believe a bunch of child molesters who will be thrown in 2 the lake of fire. Even the devil knew the word of God he was with the word and the biggest trick he ever played was making the world believe he wasn’t real. In the scriptures it says the only person who has ever walked the earth without sin was The Son Of God. So either u r lying or the Truth is lying. The Catholic Church is full of Antichrist I just don’t understand how can a bunch of men be attracted to little boys and indulge in homosexuality which is an abomination b4 The Father get up in the poolpit and say they are men of God n try to spread the word of God. When The Father is love and how can you love though brethren wen u take life from them by rapping them. How can people turn a blind eye to Satan

      • t cook

        and worship with demons. I’m nondenominational and believe if u strongly believe ur path to God is the best path for u n u believe He died for our sins n try to live ur life as purely n holy as possible because we all fall short then more power to u don’t let ur faith b shook but dnt dwn any1 for their belief when urs ain’t quite right itself to each its own. I LOVE MY GOD ALWAYS WILL DIE FOR HIM ANYTIME

      • ray

        Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse. The worst are evangelicals and in the jewish camp: Evangelicals – 25%, *j*e*w*i*’s*h – 50%, Catholic abuses only comprises of 1.5%,

      • ray

        Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse. J*e*w*s are the worst, 50% followed by Evangelicals, 25%, Catholics only comprises of 1.5%, the reason why this has been exagerated by the press is The Catholic Church historically is their enemy.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, why do you put asterisks between the letters of “Jews” and “jewish” and whatnot?
        And what is the source of your statistics?

      • ray

        This app is no allowing me to post any links, just try googling Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse.

      • ray

        This site is not allowing me to post any links. Just go search Billy Graham’s Grandson: Evangelicals ‘Worse’ Than Catholics on Sex Abuse.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, I don’t dispute that clerics of many different denominations have abused children and done many other crimes. It is often good, however, to check several different sources because limiting the research to just one might give a skewed result. Did he only check Christian denominations? What about Islamic, Buddhist, and other groups?
        And, again, why do you put asterisks between the letters of “Jewish” and so forth?

      • ray

        I can only speak for Catholic and the false allegations and accusations on it. I just put asterisks to emphasize..

      • ray

        The other info to search is The Child-Rape Assembly Line, still this site is not allowing me to post any links.

      • Char2014

        Amen!

      • noni

        So, if Mary is sinless, she is not a descendant of Adam & Eve. Where did she come from? What about Joaquim and Anne, were they not descendants of Adam & Eve too? I am not aware of another creation story in the Bible. The only one l know is in chapter 1 of Genesis. If there is another one, l will be happy to learn it from you.

      • JuliePurple

        Remember, the story of Adam and Eve is a myth.

      • noni

        I beg to disagree that the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. It is not a myth. In myth there is a room for being true. The story of Adam and Eve is “invented”. In fact the inventor wasn’t careful enough to clean up his work. He contradicted his work in chapter 1 in Genesis by his chapter 2. His god created female twice. Here’s how it happened. In verse 26 god said “let us MAKE man..”. In verse 27 of chapter 1, god created man male and female. In verse 22 of chapter 2 his god made another female. So, there are two female. Bad invention.

      • JuliePurple

        I agree that the story is a bad invention, but I do suggest that you look up the meaning of the word “myth”. In any case, you are right on when you mention the sloppy writing.

      • Char2014

        It is not a myth dummy, is a “lesson” it is exactly like if I tell you what happened to a certain woman and man, but I do not want to tell you in detail who they were because it won’t make any relevance to you. What counts is the moral and the lesson learnt of the story itself. That is how Adam and Eve is interpreted by Theologians.

      • JuliePurple

        Sure it is. And the lesson is that they were framed and punished for something that the framer knew to be inevitable. The lesson is that if you believe the lesson of the story, you can’t possibly win. And the moral is, “don’t believe everything someone tells you simply because it’s supposed to be ‘spiritual’”.

      • Char2014

        “God have pity on your soul!” You are lost, but I’ll pray for you, the devil really have a hold on you. You are been use like a tool in his hands.

        “The Lord God is all merciful, you still have a chance while you are alive.”

        Do something about it. If you don’t believe Jesus died for your sins, then what are you doing here? To deceive others! Think about it you are spiritually sick, like many others “New age crap” I was there once but God save me.

        My dad used to say that no one can “pee” for him, but himself and I agree. You are the only one that need to go seek help, pray and find your peace.

        “You are so wrong and going straight down without a parachuted, if you don’t do something about it.”

      • noni

        Char, you said “The Lord God is all merciful”. Is it merciful to drown all livings things above the surface of the earth by flood in Noah’s time. You may argue that they sinned against God. What about the animals, how did they sin against God. What about the babes, the infants, the sucklings. Is it merciful to burn the people of Sodom and Gomorrah? Is it merciful to kill all the first born in Egypt? Is it merciful to kill all the Canaanites so God can give the land to the Israelites? Is it merciful to kill Achan’s family including his animals for keeping to himself the spoils of war in their conquest of Canaan? Is it merciful to kill the old couple for not giving to Peter the entire proceeds of the sale of their property? and so on and so forth.

      • JuliePurple

        Well said. We don’t always agree, Noni, but sometimes I just want to cheer your comments; this is one of those times.

      • JuliePurple

        Sure, the lesson that people can be framed and not only they are punished but also their children are punished. So the lesson we can learn from this is: don’t expect life to be fair.
        Char, what’s with all the name-calling? Can’t you manage to make your points without it? It certainly doesn’t add to your argument.

      • Char2014

        So sorry about that, is the only thing we finally agree on, you are right Julie. The internet gives you so much freedom to express what is your mind without hiding your true feelings.

        Calling anyone a name they deserved when they are been cynical and intransigent sounds like fun. But I am also lowering myself to their level, so is not fare and I do agree with you. Is just common decency, I need to get back to basics.

        You are so right, and I will address you, and others without name-calling, it isn’t necessary if there are more civilized words to call someone “dummy” without actually saying it.

        I make sure I’ll start practicing that from now on. I was highly educated in etiquette, and at some point I lose my manners, I will put that in practice again!

        Thank you for pointing that out!

      • JuliePurple

        You are most welcome; I’m glad to have been of help. Excellent that we are able to agree about something! Cool! However, you’ve been so agreeable about this, that I hesitate to point this out, but… “… deserved when they have been cyincal and intransigent…” is inaccurate. Your comment would hold more weight if it were closer to the truth. And seriously, just a FYI, your comments would also hold more weight if you spelled words properly and used them correctly. Check the meanings of “fair” and “fare:, for instance.
        Once again, I’m so glad you’re going to make an effort to be more civil. It really makes the discussions more pleasant for everyone involved.

      • Char2014

        Thank you again, yes, it is hard for me to go back and check my spelling. I am busy, and still make some time to come here and reply. I hope you understand!

      • JuliePurple

        I totally understand, Char. I’m busy too, which is why it is sometimes a few days before I reply to a message, especially if it requires more than just a quick note. I like to have time to really think things through and express things clearly — or as clearly as I’m able, which, admittedly, is not always the same thing! :-)
        If you need more time to reply, please don’t rush on my account! This is an optional activity; nobody should feel pushed to hurry with it. I think we have enough stress in our lives without adding extra stress, don’t you?

      • ray

        Adam is sinless and Eve is sinless. Jesus Christ (2nd Adam) is sinless why can’t His (Mary, 2nd Eve) mother sinless? She is the Spouse of The Holy Ghost, In Genesis 3:15, God put enmity between Her and Satan, sin and evil cannot penetrate on her. She is full of Grace as Angel Gabriel said, these verses alone denotes her purity from sin.

        Enmity (definition) – the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something. That is why satan hates her from the very beginning, he cannot even tempt her. Jesus was tempted by the devil because Jesus (Son of God) allowed the devil to tempt him 40 days and 40 nights. In other words, Jesus (Son of God) can enter and exit time and space anytime He wishes. You can see this in His death and passion, He did this not for His sake, but for humanity’s sake.

      • noni

        Ray, I think you need a rehash on your knowledge about the Bible. Your statement that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Ghost isn’t right. What about Joseph? You also stated that Jesus allowed the devil to tempt him. In Mark 1:12 (And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness) it was the Spirit that drove him (Jesus) into the wilderness to be tempted, not Jesus volunteered to be tempted.

      • ray

        She is called The Spouse of the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost overshadowed her and she conceived by the Holy Ghost. The Immaculate Conception is about Mary being conceived without original sin, not be confused with the incarnation.

      • noni

        Maybe when you wrote the word “spouse” you mean something else because “spouse” is defined as “partner in marriage”. Mary was married to Joseph not to the Holy Ghost. In the doctrine of the trinity, the Holy Ghost is the same as the Father and the Son. Jesus is the Son in the trinity. The son and Holy Ghost is the same in the trinity, therefore Jesus and the Holy Ghost is the same. How can Jesus (the Holy Ghost in the trinity) be the spouse of Mary when Mary is Jesus’s mother. Come on Ray! Get it straight.

      • JuliePurple

        Instead of “spouse”, how about “sperm donor”? :-)

      • Char2014

        “Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32″Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, get over yourself. What is the problem with the words? Is the word “sperm” evil? Is the word “donor” evil? Or is it simply because it has something to do with reproduction?
        Nice touch, trying to make it into a Big Deal. I’m not impressed.

      • Char2014

        I am not a fanatic or a religious freak, but I don’t like your concepts about trying to “deceive” others little ones, those that don’t know much about God. “Sperm” is not the issue here, is the way you are accommodating the words, and the Bible says:

        Galatians 1:6-9, if we pervert the gospel by changing it, we will be accursed.

        Measure your words, you are mixing the “new age crap” with the “Holy words of God” you can’t change or try to find human sense in the words of wisdom because they are spiritual and it is the only way you can understand “true wisdom” but you are trying to make sense with the human intelligence and in the way are trying to drag others to your own grave. “The pits of hell” (Not cool, really!)

        God is no man, to produce “sperm” He is “The Holy Spirit” any thing that comes from Him is Spiritual, remember the words of Jesus when the pharisees asked:

        Is it lawful to pay a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?
        Then Jesus said to them:

        “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” And they were amazed at him. Mark 12:17

        So I ask you, if God is Pure Spirit, what do you think He wants from you? Only what comes from the spirit right?

        So the way Mary conceived Jesus, is His problem, I don’t know and I don’t want to know, because it doesn’t concern me. My concern is to believe it and seek my salvation, who am I to question God? We were not put on this earth to question God’s doing,

        One of the reasons for our condemnation from the very beginning was that the Devil told Eve “knowing what God knows, will give her power and she could be like God” which is true, the Devil was right, but God’s plan was we needed not to worry about that, all we needed to know is that we had to trust him and that’s it.

        The more you try to make sense of God’s plans, the more wrong you get it. I love to know about God believe me, I love His words, but. I only want to know what He feeds me, not what the Devil feeds me. We are so insignificant and limited we will never get it straight. Put your trust in God, not in me, nor in yourself, or others!

      • noni

        Oh! come on Char. Remember the Trinity. God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same. Whoever speaks against the Son can be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. Is it not that in the Trinity, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the same. So, if what you speak to the Son, you do the same to the Holy Spirit because they are one. Now, why is it that it has a different effect? To the Son its OK but to the Holy Spirit its NOT ok.

      • Char2014

        Because everything is not carnal as you make it sound my friend. The Bible is a spiritual book. They do not stain holiness with humanity’ sinful nature. That is why you can’t understand. My tip to you is to pray, and ask God for spiritual wisdom.

      • noni

        You said the Bible is a spiritual book. If what you mean by spiritual is inerrant, you are wrong. If what you mean by spiritual is Holy, you are wrong again. You tell me first if the Bible is really inerrant or Holy before telling you what l know about the Bible.

      • Char2014

        Amen

      • ray

        This is called the permissive will of God, and God does not volunteer ( I did not say that), He is God, He can do what He wants, just like His arrest in The Garden of Gethsemane, Peter fought the soldier who was trying to arrest him, took his sword and cut his ear, and what did Jesus do? He put his ears back to him, why because He knows that having to suffer and die in the cross is very important for the salvation of mankind, He could have ordered St. Michael and all the angels in heaven to protect him but He did not! During His trial, He was cursed, challenged, mocked, spat at, but He never retaliated because He knows that it is for our own sake, not of His.

        - The perfect example is Job as in (The Book of Job), it is very interesting, even Satan made a wager to God on how he can turn Job to serve him, on how he will give up his faith because he believes that Job only serves God because of all the blessings that he receives, once you take this away, he can never withstand all the crisis and sufferings he will face, and this in turn will make him question, hate and challenge God, and then God allowed Job to suffer from the sickness and death of his son, loosing his home and property and getting ill, but still his faith persevered in the end and was rewarded by God. Try reading The Book of Job, and this will make it clear for you.

        Another example, is in (Mark 1:23-34) 23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God. 25 And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the man. 26 And the unclean spirit tearing him, and crying out with a loud voice, went out of him. 27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying: What thing is this? what is this new doctrine? for with power he commandeth even the unclean spirits, and they obey him. 28 And the fame of him was spread forthwith into all the country of Galilee. 29 And immediately going out of the synagogue they came into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. 30 And Simon’s wife’s mother lay in a fit of a fever: and forthwith they tell him of her. 31 And coming to her, he lifted her up, taking her by the hand; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them. 32 And when it was evening, after sunset, they brought to him all that were ill and that were possessed with devils. 33 And all the city was gathered together at the door. 34 And he healed many that were troubled with divers diseases; and he cast out many devils, and he suffered them not to speak, because they knew him.

        - Another interesting part of God, He permits this to happen to test and see on how far to the extent our faith and love for Him is. The devil knows He is the Son of God, but He told them to shut up and speak to no one about it! And This is God! Could you just imagine The maker of Heaven and Earth saying this, this is perfect humility. He could be just in the streets performing miracles left and right but He did not, because He wanted to see how much we have faith in Him. I always use this 2 examples whenever somebody questions God on why bad things happens especially in this world, we are still awaiting Christ’s 2nd coming and there are a lot more tests, trials and tribulations for mankind especially when you read the Book of Revelation. God controls The Past, Present and Future.

      • Char2014

        Noni, do you understand “Spirituality?” Do you think that all human beings need to have sex? I think that you are judging the Bible with a human conception. You need to step back and take a different approach about holy lives!

      • JuliePurple

        Char, Noni makes some good points.
        Oh, and I liked your pun on “conception”! Good one!
        Ragarding “holy” lives: I think that if we are to consider any life “holy”, that life must therefore be held to a greater degree of scrutiny than ones not considered to be “holy”. Otherwise, we get such abuse as we see today, where supposedly holy people’s acts are not called into question, and so they are able to get away with abusing others. Some of that is seeing the light of day now, and that’s good. It makes people use more sense in dealing with “holy” people. Does the person ACT holy? If not, then why call him/her “holy”?
        By the way, I dislike using quotation marks so extensively, but in this case found it necessary because I really do mean that some people are only *called* holy, but are not, in fact. About the biblical personages, it’s anyone’s guess whether they were as depicted, or were simply invented as convenient means to convey a story.

      • Char2014

        Can you provide a real example about who is considered “Holy”? and messed up? Hey by the way, if you don’t agree with the concept of holiness, then go to God and complaint to Him, because He is “THE ONE” who told us to consider “us” or “others” ***Holy*** Please read on:

        Leviticus 19:2
        “Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.

      • noni

        Hey Julie, Char is asking you to provide an example of one who is considered Holy and messed up. If you will allow me, l can provide him (Char) with one. How about Pope Urban II (Holy Father) when he ordered and sent the first crusade to the Holy Land. I would like Char to research for himself the Medieval history and find out who were the casualties of this crusade. What did Jesus Christ said “resist not evil” Mt. 5:39

        Thanks Julie for your support.

      • Char2014

        I will repeat it to you once more:

        Holy:

        Leviticus 19:2″Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.

        And about the Pope you are talking about, I am telling you, we cannot put our faith in the hands of men, they will deceive you and me. That do not make the Catholic church “unholy” okay, check this out. “Jesus and his apostles” They should be all in heaven right?

        Answer: “wrong” Judas didn’t make it, why? Not because he did not deserve it, just because he betrayed Jesus, etc. etc., but because he hanged himself and did not trust in Jesus that whatever he did, if he repent with a true heart he was going to be saved.

        So, what is that tell you? Not only that, let’s talk about “Saulo de Tarzo?” the apostle “Paul” okay, what did do before he became a christian? Do you remember? He killed and chase christians in the name of God because he truly believe in his heart he was doing the right thing? Right?

        Well, certain Popes through History messed up, they are only humans, and if they failed God, as we speak they are before God explaining their actions. If they thought that they were doing good,

        God should know better .Otherwise anyone knowingly do wrong they will pay for the rest of their eternal life in the fire of hell, so as you see, I am not in favor of evil. I am Catholic, but I know what is right from wrong.

        My faith is my own job, I don’t let others to choose my faith and beliefs for me, that is your job. Still this does not mean, the Catholic church is not God’s plan. Look it us, humans, we are God’s plan, and how many times we let him down? We can’t even agree in one thing.

        Everyone beliefs and deduct other churches are the true churches of Jesus, so simple as that. We can’t never agree, how wrong we are, don’t you think?

      • noni

        “My faith is my own job, I don’t let others to choose my faith and
        beliefs for me, that is your job”

        The above statement you just wrote is very serious if you are a Catholic. You sound like Thomas Paine who wrote the book “Age of Reason”. Thomas Paine was a deist. If you don’t let others (Popes, Bishops, Priests) choose your faith then you don’t accept her (Catholic Church) doctrines and dogmas. These people (the Holy ones according to Ray) are the ones who decreed these doctrines and dogmas. What about the immaculate conception, the Trinity, the Infallibility, the incarnation, the resurrection, the ascension, etc., etc. Wow, you could get excommunicated for that statement if your Bishop (in your diocese) will have knowledge of it.

      • Char2014

        Noni, I am sorry to tell you this, but in this great world, there are many people that are; wasting our oxygen, eating our food and filling our world with hazardous waist. This happens when they do their physiological needs daily without bringing something worth giving to humanity.

        Please wake up and smell the coffee, if you were so right, you would have hundred of followers, if not thousands like Jesus, Mary, Buda, the Beatles, Carroll Burnett and so many others!

        Meanwhile a relationship with your creator is more important than arguing with me or arguing about “if the Catholic faith is wrong or maybe not.” Or accusing little people like me who are trying to help you get out of that stinky and dark hole where you had fallen. In the hands of the Devil your own acquaintance and God’s adversary.

        Make peace with your creator, and stop your non-sense, use your intelligence to build something worth building. You are very talented but your approach is all wrong, the same goes with smart a*** JuliePurple.

        Both of you need to straight up your little act right now! Please ask God to forgive your anti-christian behavior and fix your bitter little lives.

        PS: Please make sure once God gives you a new life, comeback here and share your happiness with the world. We’ll be happy to hear your testimony, God bless!

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, Char, I’m so flattered that you keep thinking of me! Cool. Oh, a reminder, you are still spelling “waste” wrong. And it’s “Buddha”.
        I loved that you linked up Jesus, the Buddha, and Carol Burnett! That’s a grouping that I’ll remember for a long time.
        It’s not logical to expect that everybody who is “right” would have followers. And lots of people who are really screwed up have followers, too. You can’t judge a person’s correctness by his/her followers. Hitler had a lot of followers, too. So did Sun Myung Moon. So did Charles Manson.
        Just a FYI, it’s *everybody’s* oxygen. And look, it’s not up to you to decide who is wasting oxygen and food simply by existing. A life is complex. Just because you don’t see a person’s worth does not mean it’s not there. Everybody has the right to live and learn. How do you know someone won’t eventually do something really great? You have to give people a chance.
        Nice touch, attempting to diminish Noni’s viewpoint by calling it “little”. Nice touch, as I said, but unkind.
        Char, you don’t know Noni, you don’t know me. It would be good if you were to stop belittling people you don’t know, and if you have a disagreement with the opinions, by all means say so, but do try not to judge a whole life by the little bit you see online.
        I just read over Noni’s comments, and when she disagrees, she suggests reading material or that the person rethink the point. She doesn’t attack the person, just the views. She avoids the dishonorable *ad homimen* attacks. Just sayin’.

      • ray

        I never said all bishops and priests are holy, where did you get that info? Not all Bishops and Priests, catholic faithful live holy lives… we are all called to live holy, just as Christ said be “Holy”. There is no point of having a church if you don’t set any rules, doctrines and edicts. The Holy Trinity, Infallibility (ex Cathedra) only on matters on faith and moral, The Incarnation, The Resurrection, The Ascenscion, The Immaculate Conception, The Assumption of Mary are called Dogma of Faith – A religious doctrine of system o f doctrines proclaimed by ecclesiastical authority as true. This is the problem with evangHellicals and protestants is they always have a double standards on everybody, anti-everything but themselves, this is zealotry which leads to disastrous things – 40,000+ denominations competing with each other that cannot even agree with basic Christian beliefs such as Baptism, Salvation and The Divinity of Christ (Holy Trinity), all 3 essentials to be saved!!

      • JuliePurple

        No worries, Noni. There certainly are really holy people in the world, and if you feel like mentioning any, please feel free! The only ones I can think of right now are Frederick Franck and his wife, Claske. Both lived to be in their 90s. I knew them both. Wonderful people, really kind and loving, and they spent their lives in the service of love and peace. However, anyone who knew them would have thought the same. I can’t think of anyone specific who was called “holy” but who really wasn’t. I can only think in general terms, of people like clerics who are presumed to be holy, but who abuse kids.

      • noni

        Noni, do you understand “Spirituality?”How about you? You tell me first about your understanding of “spirituality” so l can explain to you the meaning of “spirituality”. If your understanding of “spirituality” is based on what you “heard and read” and not from your “Brain”, don’t bother telling me.

      • JuliePurple

        Aaaakkk! Warning, warning!
        Punctuation alert! Punctuation alert!
        Severe overuse of quotation marks!

      • noni

        Hi Julie! Thanks for the reminder. I used it just 6 times but in your reply to Guest 10 days ago, you used it 7 times. Anyways, that’s a fair wake up call. Won’t happen again.

      • JuliePurple

        Ach, no worries. I looked for that posting of mine you mentioned, but only saw quotation marks used when I was actually quoting something. That is how they are supposed to be used. When you just want to emphasize something, you underline it, use italics, or when those are not possible, put an asterisk on both ends of what you wish to emphasize. Quotation marks are for *quoting*.

      • JuliePurple

        I forgot to mention, quotation marks are also used when indicating that the word in quotes is “so-called”: i.e., Fox “News”. Meaning, it calls itself a news program, but it’s really fabrication and propaganda. In the instance you cited, the quotation marks were intended to suggest that the people are only *called* holy, but are not, in fact, holy. Admittedly, it’s not a direct quote from someone specific.
        See, that’s one of the reasons I really like punctuation to be used properly: you can get across all kinds of subtleties with it. And regarding the program mentioned above, I usually refer to it as “‘Faux “News”‘.
        By the way, did you notice that at the bottom of that posting you mentioned, I did mention about my usage of quotation marks in the comment?

      • Char2014

        Thank Ray for the clarification, you are so right!

      • Char2014

        I am no authority in the Bible, but one thing i can tell you that first of all, you don’t know the Bible, nor read it either, if you did. You would know Mary’s parents are not even mentioned. Anyway, to this point, it doesn’t matter, but if Jesus was born of Mary through the Holy Ghost intervention what held the Holy Ghost to make Mary pure, incorruptible, sinless? Remember for God nothing is impossible. But if you observe what I am saying in the Bible, you need to understand one thing only. For God nothing is impossible, and He declares in his words that whatever comes from Him is going to confuse the wisest men on earth.

      • noni

        If you cannot find Mary’s parents (Joachim and Anne) in the Bible, your knowledge about Christian writings is so narrow and limited that you don’t even know about the Infancy Gospel of James (Protoevangelium of James). You seemed to know only the 66 books of the Bible. There are volumes after volumes of the history of Christianity. Even in this book, the Bible, I doubt if you understand what is in there. When you said in your posting “you don’t know the Bible” it suggests that you yourself know the Bible. Don’t you? Bear in mind my friend that when you say you know the Bible, it means you UNDERSTAND what is written in there. Now, lets test you understanding of the Bible.

        1. How many verses are there in chapter 16 of Mark’s gospel?
        2. Is Jesus’ parents (Joseph & Mary) a native of Judea or Galilee?
        3. Is Joseph’s father Heli or Jacob?
        4. Was there an instance that Jesus lied?
        5. Was there an instance that John (the apostle) lied?
        6. Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?
        7. Was Jesus born in a manger or cave?
        8. Why did Jesus addressed Mary “woman” instead of mother?
        9. What is the difference between Gen 1:17 and Gen 2:22?

        Be careful in answering these questions because a lot of commentators on this website will be watching. This will determine how good is your claim to be knowledgeable about the Bible since you told me that l don’t know the Bible. Meaning, you know better. Good Luck.

      • Cat

        And where in the scripture, does ‘Jesus’ who was not called ‘Jesus’ mention his mother as being holy and that she should have little statues of herself made for you lot to bow down to? Hypocrites!

      • ray

        Examples of Mary’s holiness:

        Luke 1:35 – the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”).

        Luke 1:28 – “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God). Thus, when Catholics recite this verse while praying the Rosary, they are uttering the words of God.

        Luke 1:28 – also, the phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person – Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

        Luke 1:38 – Mary’s fiat is “let it be done to me according to thy word.” Mary is the perfect model of faith in God, and is worthy of our veneration.

        Luke 1:42 – “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.” The phrase “blessed are you among women” really means “you are most blessed of all women.” A circumlocution is used because there is no superlative in the Greek language. Note also that Elizabeth praises Mary first, and then Jesus. This is hyperdulia (but not latria which is worship owed to God alone). We too can go through Mary to praise Jesus. Finally, Catholics repeat these divinely inspired words of Elizabeth in the Rosary.

        Luke 1:43 – Elizabeth’s use of “Mother of my Lord” (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used “Adonai” which means Lord God) is the equivalent of “Holy Mary, Mother of God” which Catholics pray in the Rosary. The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus’ Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus’ human nature – mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

        Luke 1:44 – Mary’s voice causes John the Baptist to leap for joy in Elizabeth’s womb. Luke is teaching us that Mary is our powerful intercessor.

        Luke 1:46 – Mary claims that her soul magnifies the Lord. This is a bold statement from a young Jewish girl from Nazareth. Her statement is a strong testimony to her uniqueness. Mary, as our Mother and intercessor, also magnifies our prayers.

        Luke 1:48 – Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the “Hail Mary” prayer. What Protestant churches have existed in all generations (none), and how many of them call Mary blessed with special prayers and devotions?

        Gal. 4:4 – God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary “the woman with the redeemer.” This is because “co” is from the Latin word “cum” which means “with.” Therefore, “co-redemptrix” means “woman with the redeemer.” Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

        Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 – the word “saints” (in Hebrew “qaddiysh”) means “holy” ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all.

        Luke 2:35 – Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary’s soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus’ suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son’s suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings.

        Luke 2:19,51 – Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary’s Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

        IMAGES, ALTARS, TABERNACLES ARE ALL SCRIPTURAL.

        Because God ordered Moses and Solomon to make graven images to be put inside the Temple, the Altar, the Sanctuary, the Tabernacle and the Holy of Holies.

        * The Bible has presented a lot of passages describing the Temple designed by God as full of images of Cherubims, Flowers, Palms, Fruits, Bulls, Lions, etc. These are all images in the Temple of God. One of which and the most popular is the ARK OF THE COVENANT with two large graven images of Angels sculpted in wood and gold.

        Then Solomon KNELT in front of the Altar [1 Kings 8:54] while Joshua KNELT before the Ark of the Lord [Joshua 7:6].

        Exodus 20:4-5, Deuteronomy 5:8-9 refers to idols. But not all of the pictures is “idol or idols”. Because God decided to build itself as an image or graven image. If all images are banned what else why did the Lord God commands more pictures:

        Adorn the Ark of the Covenant: EXODUS 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold; of beaten work shalt thou make them, at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end: of one piece with the mercy seat, you make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.

        BRAZEN SERPENT: ?Numbers 21:9 And Moses to make a serpent of brass and put it upon a pole: and it came to pass, that have bitten the snake lives beheld the serpent of brass,

        Statue and carving WITHIN THE TEMPLE OF JERUSALEM: ?1 Kings 6:23 [Good News] “In the Holy of Holies, he assumed two cherubim, IMAGE ON WOOD carved olive. Fifteen feet above each other. ”

        1 Kings 6:29 ?He carved AND ALL THE HOUSE OF THE carved figures of cherubim and palm trees, and open FLOWERS, THE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.

        1 Kings 6:32 [Good News] “as the two boards of olive staple, and fluted THIS image of cherubim, palm trees and flowers. The panara’y inlaid gold fitted fitted with etched PHOTOS. ”

        1 Kings 7:29 ?And side COVER IN BETWEEN ledges were lions, oxen, and cherubim; and upon the ledges there was a pedestal above; and beneath the lions and oxen were wreaths of hanging work.

        Ezekiel 41:19 ?So that FACE WITH SOMEONE IN PLACE OF THE HEAD OF A PLACE IN PALMA, and face of a young lion toward the palm tree on the other side. Thus it was made through all the house round about:

        Ezekiel 41:20 ?FROM THE FLOOR TO THE TOP OF THE DOOR IS cherubim and palm trees made: Thus the walls of the temple.

      • gooder1

        And of course the use of common sense should help us understand Mary’s state of grace, or sinlessness: If Jesus is the new Adam (1Cor 15:21-25), then there should also be a new Eve. In the beginning, Adam and Eve were pure and sinless, then together they sinned, effectively falling from grace, and entering into a life of sin. And since they lacked the grace of God, they could not pass it on (that grace is now restored in Christian baptism).

        So, if Jesus is God taking on human flesh, then where God is, sin cannot exist. And of course Jesus remained in the womb of Mary for 9 months. So Mary would be the first person who most certainly would have received that sanctifying grace-of-God before all others. In other words, if Mary was in sin, then how could she be the vessel of God? It would not make any sense.

        As for the sanctification of John the Baptist, well we would have to assume that John in a sense received his “baptism,” or at least received the Holy Spirit while still in the womb of Elizabeth, at the time when Mary visited her. See below:

        Prophecy of Zechariah:

        Luke 1:15: “for [John] will be great before the Lord,
        and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink,
        and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit,
        even from his mother’s womb.”

        Fulfillment of that Prophecy:

        Luke 1:41-44: “And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy..”

        So John most certainly leaped for joy within his mother’s womb, when Jesus, the first trimester child, communicated that grace to John from within his own mother’s womb, the womb of Mary.

      • ray

        Lest we forget, that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant of the New Testament!!!

      • Cesar A. Pagapula-an Jr.

        Mary Is sinless only because it is Necessary for Jesus to be God! Not because what she solely did but because of how God prepared her. She is to carry God for 9 mos. and the vessel should be pure because God is all pure and Holy. Catholics believe that even Mary is not worthy of God but God himself made Her to be that! SHE is FULL OF GRACE! SHE IS BLESSED! SHE is chosen by GOD! Look at Luke 1:46-55, The Magnificat.

      • noni

        Hey Cesar, when you say “She is to carry God for 9 mos”, do you mean Mary is pregnant and the baby is God. Did you not know that Joseph is Mary’s husband? How can God be in Mary’s womb when she had a human husband?
        If that’s the case, then, Joseph is the father of God. My goodness, where did you learn these things. From Aesop’s!

      • ray

        Noni, this is just shows how clueless you are of the bible, Christ was conceived by The Holy Ghost, Joseph is the foster father of Jesus. Joseph took upon Mary, as instructed by God, because having a child prior to marriage would not be acceptable to society.

        Matthew 1:24-25: And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn (Gk. prototokon) son: and he called his name Jesus. (Douay-Rheims)

        From Catholic(dot)com:

        However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated “virgin of the Lord,” to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).

        According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.

    • Cat

      My comments stand….hell mend you Rome and may the throne of David and the wrath of YHVH, swiftly come upon you unrepentant blasphemers.

      • Char2014

        Mathew 7:22, listen to this:

        Do Not Judge
        1″Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2″For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.3″Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?…

    • Char2014

      Hmmm…Definition for the word “MAIDEN” also refers to: (VIRGIN?? IS IT??” Check it out Sherlock:—->

      Old English mægden, from a Germanic diminutive meaning ‘maid,
      virgin’; related to German Mädchen, diminutive of Magd ‘maid,’
      from an Indo-European root shared by Old Irish mug ‘boy, servant.’

      • Cat

        It wasn’t written in english!!!! Jesus!!! The new testament was written
        in greek as far as we know. Isaiah 7:14 which Matthew quotes regarding
        ‘a ‘virgin’ shall concieve’ was a direct quote from the hebrew of the
        old testament. The dead sea scrolls were found in the early 1900′s and
        are written in hebrew, dating 100BC. The hebrew word used where it is
        translated as virgin, is maiden..Virgin and maiden in hebrew are two
        different words!!!!

        As for ‘do not judge’ I judge by truth, you lot
        of arrogant gits judge by your pagan slanderous doctrine of men. So i
        will be judged by the truth and not a bunch of mithraic pagan hogwash!!! How about you take “narrow is the gate that leads to salvation, and few there be that find it” seriously instead!! Along with “Seek the truth” then perhaps you will know the languages of the biblical scripture.

      • Philip Sieve

        Did you just use The Lord’s name in vain, preacher? LOL

  • Ciro Marco Saggese

    What we cannot understand is that there is not an answer to “THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD” And Bible verses that today are still not answered. Example, in Acts 10 Cornelius bows down before St. Peter to worship, but the servant of Jesus said: “I am only a man…” We see that Jesus says: “I am the way, the truth and the life, NOBODY goes to the Father…….. BUT BY ME……” Also we see Paul in the Book of Acts whom they tried to offer a sacrifice to, but he tore his clothes and told them he was only a man. John, the apostle, he bowed down before an angel, in revelation 19 and 22, and the angel said: “no, no, no, I am a servant like you…. WORSHIP GOD ALONE”

    We know the commandments, there is only one God, it has always been like that, since Abraham, since Moses, since creation. Also, who can answer to Saint Paul: “There is ONLY ONE GOD and ONLY ONE MEDIATOR between God and man, the man JESUS CHRIST….” (1 Timothy 2:5).

    Making it short, how can a person that has died come and listen to all of our thoughts, all of our prayers and petitions, how can someone be of the same Nature of God. He is the only Omnipresent, the only Omnipotent, the only Omniscient.

    yes, you say the Bible is inspired by God, but tradition and event add… Oh, no! You cannot add to the Bible if it does not agree with it, if it goes against it. Anything that goes against the Bible is ANTIBIBLE…. Don’t you think? Well, but I understand that money making is a big issue, you will never stop making statues and immages for the “faithful”. But attention, you cannot pray to God, only through JESUS. Anybody else is an impostor.

  • George

    I find it interesting that it seems most of the people that post comments are; ex/apostate catholics, protestants, agnostics, atheists, evangelicals, etc… Where are the catholics? I can only think of Ray as the catholic I’ve read from the past few weeks.
    I know some people take the attitude of not “dignifying” the question with a response, but I don’t think that is what is happening. Even then, how many times did Christ refuse to answer the questions of the Pharisees? When you have truth, you want and should share it.

  • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

    Have made replies several times but it is not being posted.

    • Pastor Dwayne

      So,,, God doesn’t know until 1827 what he should have put in His Word. Sorry you are wrong!

    • JuliePurple

      Oliver, sometimes you have to wait a few minutes for your message to show up.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        Thanks! There was a note that the comment was under moderation but up to now, never posted. It’s alright with me anyway. Maybe my reply is not favorable that it has proven purgatory unbiblical.

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, gads, honey, don’t expect proof or logic to play a big part in the conversations here. This is about religion, after all! :-)
        Anyhow, I’ve had that experience of my comments being moderated, and sometimes they show up eventually, and sometimes they don’t. And the weird thing is, some of the ones that don’t show up have essentially the same information in them as ones that *do* show up! Go figure, eh?

      • YaraGreyjoy

        One thing I think we can all agree on as a matter of absolute truth: Disqus is friggin’ evil

      • JuliePurple

        I think it’s sort of like when, years ago, I was driving my Mom to go shopping, and she said, “Wow, the traffic is really bad!” Then, after a couple of seconds, she added, “Not that the cars themselves are evil.” (We laughed ourselves silly over that.)
        Well, yeah, Disqus is bad… remember that series of haiku about Windows? This one in particular:
        Yesterday it worked
        Today is doesn’t
        Windows is like that
        Yours in non sequiturs,
        Julie

  • baz

    Remember the bible is a book of short stories collected from the ancient world, there version of TV.

  • Romans 10:9

    The problem with many catholic churchgoers, they emphasize too much with Mary and saints. I was raised as catholic but the Holy Spirit convicted my heart. Anyway, I observed many catholic family members and friends in the church of how they pray and pay respect to virgin mary and saints. My point here is that they have unrepentant heart. They go to church on Sunday as blameless and holy people but at home they continue living their sinful lives. Of course they believe in their lips that Jesus died for their sins as the Church preach every sunday. Jesus said in Luke 13:3 “I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” and Romans 10:9 “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

    Our lives should be Christ-centered. If they sincerely and truly follow Jesus, then they will put their trust on Him. Why spend so much time and energy with mary and saints? They are obstacles in understanding and accepting the truth. A person who truly repented and accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior will receive the Holy Spirit. Mary and other saints exist in so many houses but Jesus is not one of them. They believe Jesus in their mouth but they don’t follow Him. The Holy Spirit will convicts people’s heart, help and guide our relationship with Jesus Christ. If a person does not have the spirit of Jesus who raised Him from the Dead,likewise will perish. By reading the Bible we will understand the truth, if don’t understand the word we ask the holy spirit to help us understand.

    • Rivka

      In my experience, people who live sinful lives, and yet have pictures and stuff of Mary and the saints, have those pictures for cultural-background reasons, not because they have a real relationship with Mary and the saints. In my experience, the only people who have close relationships with Mary and the saints are people who accept Jesus, who love God more than anything, and love Mary and the saints only secondarily because of their connection to God.

    • Romans 10:9

      @Rivka, for some is cultural background reasons, but for many are not. I don’t beleive they worship mary and saints as god. How does mary and saints help us in our salvation? Read this scripture Revelation 22:8;9 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”,
      And aslo according to John 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.””

  • George

    This is the kind of thing and attitude that leads to more doctrinal errors down the road. The reason Mary “needs” to be conceived sinless is so that then Jesus can also be conceived sinless. But the reason clergy in the past thought they needed to find a way to justify that Jesus was sinless was because of another false doctrine: which is the false doctrine that we are all born with “original” sin. We are born with a sin nature, but we do not have sin at birth. I mean, this is like a train wreck of false doctrine leading to more false doctrine through the centuries. It’s so sad to see this. There is so much good in the church, but as time goes by there is less and less, and more and more false doctrine as one generation of theologians passes the baton to the next. God knows why he allows this, and it must be for a really good reason, but it is clear that the RCC’s doctrine continues to degrade through time. The laity needs to step up and hold the clergy accountable for all they have done, and a correction needs to happen.

  • al

    @ #1 Joe Sorry but i can’t call you father because JESUS SAID CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER BUT ONLY YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN! #2 Don’ waste your time praying for the dead because salvation is on this side of the grave. FOR THE LORD SAID FIRST THE DEATH AND THEN THE JUDGEMENT! #3 How sad being stuck in the RCC never knowing if you have been good enough and being in bondage and never being SET FREE!!! #4 The catholic church took over from the scribes and pharisees with all their lies and traditions and adding and taking away from Gods Word! So that being said COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE YE SEPARATE SAYS THE LORD! End other words GET OUT OF THAT CULT!!

  • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

    Have read so many RCC teachings/doctrines being refuted by christians as unbiblical. Now, let’s reverse the situation and hear from RCC the refutable teachings/doctrines of the christians.

    • ray

      WRONG!!! Evangelical Protestants are the one who falsely worship God, from their infallible celebrity pastors – prosperity gospel ministers, false prophets / end timers, pro-is*raHELL preachers, they are the ones who cannot give any biblical reference to their false and flip-flopping dogmas such as: christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation and endless more… LOL.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that a Catholic can question, argue and debate with them on scriptures.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that the Catholics have the original Scriptures? How the authority of the Church, Pope’s & Councils were the one who codified, compiled and canonized the scriptures.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept the authority of the Church, Pope & Councils made the decision which books are Divinely inspired and not Divinely inspired.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it was Pope Damasus in the 4th Century that commissioned St. Jerome in the 4th Century to translate the Scriptures from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to Latin to produce the original bible – The Latin Vulgate.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it is their protestant beliefs has led to the many perverted bibles that is in circulation right now: Schonfield bible, Geneva bible, Mormon bible, NIV, New World translation, Clear Word bible, Moffat bible, Godspeed bible, Lamsa bible, King James vers., New King James vers. etc

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it is protestantism (Christian pluralism) that led to the fragmentations and divisions in our society, we have all seen this weakened the whole of Western Europe and the world, this opened the door for the separation of church and state – modernism – secularism – atheism – & onward to satanism.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept the that the Union Theological Seminary was funded by the Rockefellers to undermine Christianity under the guise of “Modernism”, “Higher Criticism” this was headed by Charles Briggs and Harry Emerson Fosdick who doubted all bible passages that refers to the Divinity of Christ-Virgin Birth, Christ’s death as atonement for sins, 2nd Coming.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that the history of protestantism is part of a vast conspiracy by the banking cartel/money changer (Rothschild family) to fragment and weaken the Catholic Church by financing crypto-’j'e*’w* Adam Weishaupt (illuminism) by subverting the Jesuit Order in the 15th Century that led to the revolution inside the church posing as reformation which in fact it should be called deformation. This became a springboard for a lot of subversive groups to infiltrate (most esp freemasonry which was also financed by the Rothschilds) as a full covert war against the Catholic Church.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that all the anti-catholic attacks, diatribe & mockery is echoed from the masonic lodges that hates all Catholic – Relics, Tradition, Scripture, Saints, Jesus Christ and His Mother, The Blessed Virgin Mary, The Holy Mass (Eucharist), Sacraments, etc.

      It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that protestantism is on its last legs, they are called evangelicals (fundamentalism), they are the biggest dupes & cheerleaders for the establishment of a masonic world government-’i's*’r*’a*’H'E’L'L, pastored by the likes of John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Kenneth Copeland, Mike Evans, Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Tim LaHaye, Paul Crouch, Ed McAteer, Jim Baker, Franklin Graham, James Dobson and Jimmy Swaggart under the false doctrine of christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’.

      * The biggest error is sola scriptura – protestatntism, a mutation of 40,000 denominations that last 500 years, this is not Christ’s intention for mankind, protestantism is an abject failure to the faith. Christ only established One, Holy and Apostolic Church and that is the Catholic Church.?

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, Ray, you sure are down with the copy-and-paste function, aren’t you?

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        Christian’s cite verses from the bible to refute RCC’s teachings/doctrines. Now if i will follow, where in the bible can i find your opening paragraph? And so on and so on.

      • ray

        Obviously you do not understand my comment, I am stating the protestant evangelical hypocrisy of bible only beliefs. So why are these so called beliefs being parroted by your 40,000 denominations: christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism,
        universalism, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved
        always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation,
        pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal
        savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation. Social gospel, prosperity gospel. Again, where can you find them in the bible?

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        My original comment was to reverse what the christians are doing when refuting RCC’s religious teachings/doctrines. They cite bible verses to refute RCC’s. You however stated so many facts which should likewise be backed up with bible verses. Now your 2nd comment is no longer statement of facts but asking for bible verses. If you are RCC, I would like to think that you obviously know nothing on the bible.

      • ray

        Ignorant in the bible???? Who gave you the bible is it sola scriptura? Billy Graham? John Hagee? If I was so ignorant in the bible why would I point out all these false doctrines (unfounded in the bible) from these evangelical dupes, who has done that? None. All I am explaining is the hypocrisy of these fake evangelical christians.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        My 1st comment was addressed to the RCC and you replied. You stated a lot of unbiblical facts and then you asked where to find them in the bible. If that is not ignorance, I don’t know what it is. Why not, go ahead and answer your own question why would you point out all those false doctrines but let your bible by citing verses refute them all. Simple as that. Many could learn from them.
        I strongly disagree with your sweeping statement that all catholics are ignorant in the bible.

      • ray

        You said: “If you are RCC, I would like to think that you obviously know nothing on the bible.” Isn’t this a sweeping generalization? Anyways, my comments is not for catholics but against evangelicals, I have already stated in my first comment that the reasons for them coming up for these unbiblical doctrines is for a sinsiter *z’*i’o'n*i’s't’ agenda so they can easily sell wars abroad esp in the MEast, I have mentioned this earlier in my comment to “George”. Below is my comment:

        Where is the Catholic Doctrine of The Holy Trinity and Incarnation in the Bible? How come protestants believe this? Are they also protesting on this? The reason for the breakup is not purgatory but enemy subversion by the sponsorship of the (*’j*’e'*w*;i*’;s”*h** banking cartel) Rothschilds (Bauer family), Goldsmiths, Solomon Brothers, Oppenheimers etc. as a covert war against the papacy and the church, it is rooted from the Zohar when the Rothschilds adopted the Sabbatean Frankists movement in the 15th Cent, as I mentioned, Adam Weishaupt (crypto-*j’e'w’), by infiltrating the Jesuit order becoming a high ranking bishop/cardinal to fragment the church, this is how Protestantism was born. Because historically the Church expelled, deported, imprisoned, executed money changers (currency manipulators), usurers bec., they are the cause of all the bankruptcy of European (Christian) kingdom throughout history, under their “Gold Standard scheme” – just like today (ECB, IMF WB, FED RESERVE, BOE) economic bubbles/crashes. The church through its monarchs had always had to impose “pogroms” against them & “jubilee” – the forgiveness of debt, it was the church (both state & govt) that protected all nations until 1789 when the masons successfully overthrew the King of France that became the model for future controlled revolutions, this was the springboard for the separation of church and state, free reign for masons, that is why communism, nazism, fascism, atheism, secularism, globalism, capitalism, feminism, abortion, same sex marriage are an easy sell to society. They were also successful on establishing masonic churches such as Mormons, SDA & Jehovah’s witness, on the basis of sola scriptura, good job ML.

        Purgatory – The name does not make the place; the place must exist first, then we give it a name. We call this place “purgatory” because it means “a cleansing place.” Therein souls are purged from the small stains of sin, which prevent their immediate entrance into Heaven.

        In the Old Testament The first mention of Purgatory in the Bible is in 2 Maccabees 12:46: “Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.”

        Some people do not accept Maccabees as book of the Bible. This is unfortunate since it is that their Bibles have been edited and are missing books. (Find out Why Catholic Bibles Are Different) Even if a person does not accept the book of Maccabees, it at least has historical value for we can learn what the pre-Christian community believed.

        In Chapter 12 of Second Maccabees we read Scriptural proof for Purgatory and evidence that the Jews had sacrifices offered for those of their brothers who had lost their lives in battle. That the Jews prayed for the dead shows that they believed in a place where they could be helped (which we now call purgatory) and
        that the prayers of their living brothers and sisters could help them in that place. This is closely related to the Catholic doctrine of the communion of saints.

        During the Reformation in the 15th century, when Martin Luther was deciding to remove books from the Bible, these words in the book of Maccabees had so clearly favored Catholic teaching, that the whole book was removed from the Protestant Bible. Unfortunately for Protestants, even if they feel that the book was not inspired, it still tells us of the practice of God’s chosen people.

        In the New Testament In Matthew 5:26 and Luke 12:59
        Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid in Heaven and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

        Matthew 12:32 says, “Andwhoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Here Jesus speaks of sin against the Holy Spirit. The implication is that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. We know that in Hell there is no liberation and in
        Heaven nothing imperfect can enter it as we see in the next part. Sin is not forgiven when a soul reaches its final destination because in heaven there is no need for forgiveness of sin and in hell the choice to go there is already made.

        Revelation 21:27: “…but nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who does abominable things or tells lies.” The place that is to be entered (the place to which this passage refers) is heaven (read the text around it for context).

        The Bible clearly implies a place for an intermediate state of purification after we die in the many passages which tell that God will reward or punish according to a person’s life.

        What if purgatory really doesn’t exist?

        Ponder the following example. Imagine a Christian man, justified by the Lord, loses his temper and yells at his next door neighbors for letting their dog dig a hole in his yard. We can see that the man treated his neighbors rudely, albeit the neighbor’s behavior was also reprehensible.His actions would be considered a light sin (called venial sins by the Catholic Church). It’s not of the same moral weight as theft or murder, but it’s still a sin.

        After shouting at the neighbors, with all the anger and stress in his body the man walks into his house, has a heart attack, and dies having just committed a small sin in the final moments of his life. Remember, this man is Christian and justified by the Lord, yet has committed a sin. Does he go to heaven or does he go to hell? Are all sins created equal? No, all sins are not equal and even justified men of the Lord can make mistakes and sin.

        If purgatory didn’t exist, the man would go to hell for his small sin.
        God’s mercy is so great and our God is a just God that it seems
        unfathomable that he would condemn a justified man to hell for a small, yet unrepented sin. The man’s soul is dirty. His actions have defiled his soul, but not the point where he has cut himself off from God. Only mortal sins cut off a person from God’s grace. So, the man, having been justified by the Lord, is destined for heaven, yet his soul is defiled by his sin (Matthew 12:36, 15:18).
        His soul is in need of cleansing because nothing defiled can enter
        heaven. This is the purpose of purgatory. Out of mercy and love God sends the man through purgatory on his way to heaven so that his soul can be purified to be able to join God in heaven.

        Remember, purgatory is not a second chance for conversion; the man is already justified. If there is no place of intermediate state of purification, the man would be damned to hell! Who would be saved? Those who teach against purgatory teach an unreasonable doctrine. Will Catholics go to heaven?

        So, why do protestants reject a teaching so full of consolation? My guess is that they want to believe that the merits of Christ applied to the sinner who trusts in Him, will remove all sin past, present, and future abdicating all responsibility for sin after justification. Yet this is also unreasonable. Only Jesus’ death on the cross makes us worthy before God the Father. We cannot stand before him on our own merits. We need Jesus Christ. Yet we also have personal responsibility in our justification before the Lord.

        Luke 12:48: Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

        If we accept Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, confess him as Lord, yet commit bad actions, God judges accordingly.

        Matthew 12:37: By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

        Our acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not abdicate our responsibility live the Gospel. Salvation is not assured. Salvation is not by faith alone for the Bible says that we will be held accountable by our words and that much will be entrusted to us! Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is by faith alone. This teaching is un-Scriptural. Rather the Scriptures say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26).

        While Jesus can be the only acceptable sacrifice to God for our sins, it doesn’t give us a license to sin. Nor does justification by the Lord preserve us from sin. Even a justified man can commit a sin. Therefore, even though Christ’s blood on the cross makes us right before God, God still requires much from us in return. He requires us to die to ourselves each day and to choose him in everything we do. It simply doesn’t fit with God’s justice for a person to be off the hook simply because at some point in the past they became justified. We have a duty to God to obey him for if we do not obey God we will be punished according to his justice. Purgatory is part of God’s justice.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        I just don’t know why you only stick to one sentence of my comment and then make it as my sweeping generalization? That is not fair.

        Like what I have reiterated, let us not focus on personalities but rather on what they are teaching.

        Now, you are saying that purgatory is biblical and I wish I can believe that and it is quite funny. Can not believe that 2 Maccabees 12:46: “Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.” means purgatory.
        Based on you own definitions – “Purgatory – The name does not make the place; the place must exist first, then we give it a name. We call this place “purgatory” because it means “a cleansing place.” Therein souls are purged from the small stains of sin, which prevent their immediate entrance into Heaven.”

        Who is “we”. Is the “we” authorize to give names.
        Clearly, you are the one who named it as PURGATORY based on your own interpretation. And that is not biblical. “BOOM”!
        A place can not exist first before the name as God created everything and He names them all. Otherwise if a place existed first before God can give it a name, there will be another creator.

        Please do not be more than God by giving names. Let the bible give names. Let the bible verses answer all questions! Just like the christians, they let the bible verses answer and not from human understanding, doctrines, dogmas etc. Get the answer from the bible.

      • ray

        Is the word bible in the bible? Does it make it unbiblical or heresy if it is not found there? What about The Catholic Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, is that in the bible too??? How come Catholics like me believe on it and the majority of all protestants?? They are all named by the authority of the church, and is that a heresy too? What about The Sacred Heart of Jesus, Christ Incarnate, Pope, The Church against contraception and abortion (does this mean it is not immoral if its not in the bible), the word “Rosary” is that in the bible too?? What about protestant evangelical dogmas such as: cheap grace, televangelism, christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, social gospel, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation are they all in the bible too? The bible alone is not enough to an authority itself, that is why the Catholic Church stands on a 3 legged stool: Scripture, Tradition & Magisterium. That is why you have an official canon of scriptures (Holy Bible) it is because of the authority of the Church that decided what are divinely inspired and not, not the bible. Again, on the issue of purgatory were protestants are so worked up:

        Purgatory is only a requirement for those who die in an imperfect state of grace, if they want to go to heaven. And, it is God’s requirement (Rev 21:27) which the Church affirms as she does all the Teachings of God.

        1 Corinthians 3:15 
(KJV)
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

        What do you call this place where a man is saved as though by fire?

        There are other verses, which, I think, must be considered in order to understand the concept of Purgatory:

        Revelation 2:10
 (KJV)
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

        Are these Christians who shall receive a crown of life, AFTER they go to a spiritual prison cast into it by the devil? What do Protestants call this temporary stop before going to heaven?

        
Ecclesiastes 12:7
 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

        Acts 17:28
 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

        Psalm 139:8
 King James Version (KJV)
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

        God created hell, folks. God is that consuming fire (Deut 4:24) which punished eternally in hell and cleanses the soul in Purgatory (1 Cor 3:15).

        Now the famous Catholic convert / apologetic Scott Hahn puts it like this:
….Now the saints in heaven would freeze in purgatory, and hell fire for the saints in heaven would be like ice, dry ice. Our God is a consuming fire. The periphery of the universe is hell fire. That isn’t the hottest. The hottest is what you find when you get closest to God. Out of the nine choirs of angels, the highest are the Seraphim. In Hebrew it means the burning ones. They glow bright because they are consumed with this passionate, fiery love that God has for all eternity for us as His children…..

        “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.” (Luke 16:31) That rich man went into hell and torment, not purgatory. (Luke 16:22-23)

        The word, hell, in Scripture, means the place of the dead. Not the place of the damned. Now, Dives, the Rich Man, was not in the hell of the damned, because if he had been in the hell of the damned, and this is Protestant doctrine, he would not have been concerned about the spiritual condition of his brothers. Therefore, since he showed care and concern for them, Dives must have been in Purgatory.

        The Bible is a book which contains the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. He is not contained in a book (John 21:25). Whatever you may so or think otherwise, the Bible in your hand is not Jesus Christ and it is not God. It is a book. I however, recognize the authority of the Church as Scripture teaches (1 Tim 3:15; Eph 3:10) and the authority of the Pope (Matt 16:18). But your authority (bible), I see nowhere in Scripture, “sola scriptura” is another term for “my interpretation only”. The Word of God is sufficient for us as well. However, we acknowledge the truth of Scripture which tells us that the Church teaches the Word of God (Eph 3:10) and that our Priests teach the Word of God (Heb 13:7) and that the Word of God is passed down by word in Tradition (1 Thess 2:13). And we also see that the Word of God teaches against Sola Scriptura. The Kingdom of God is not a democratic society. It is a Kingdom, ruled by Christ through His Church.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        Your own or who ever your human leader is interpreting for you is very wrong. Now if I can read to you the scriptures’s own interpretation, not my own interpretation nor any other’s interpretation, or answer your question:
        “What do you call this place where a man is saved as though by fire?”
        will you accept that this is not purgatory?

        This will never be purgatory if you read the whole chapter. Why cite and interpret only one verse? – 1 Cor. 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

        1 Corinthians 3

        New International Version (NIV)

        The Church and Its Leaders

        3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

        5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

        10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

        16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

        18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”[a]; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”[b] 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        1 CORINTHIANS 4:6

        And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

      • http://www.ferotexphilippines.com/ Oliver A. Almero

        Have made replies several times but it is not being posted here.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        A small group of men verses millions of ROMAN catholics, does not mean all catholics are learned in scripture.
        I can’t believe the number of catholics i have worked with for many, many years, Most of them could not wait for the work day ended , so they could head for the bar and drink beer, as most also were continually taking God’s name in vain. and most if not all smoked cigs one right after another.
        also you said , if I was so ignorant in the bible, why would I point out all these false doctrines ( unfounded in the bible).
        You are ignorant because you don’t know the bible because all the cut and paste you did, Then the main reason you are ignorant in the Word of God, is because you Ray are not a born again Christian, as also the above catholics in this post I wrote about , are not Born Again Christians!!!!!
        SORRY the ROMAN catholic church has made a huge LIE
        in claiming they are the true church of God..
        If peter was here today and walked into a church of yours he would be casting out demons for days. And no, Peter was NEVER a pope!!!!!!!!

      • ray

        YOU SAID: A small group of men verses millions of ROMAN catholics, does not mean all catholics are learned in scripture.

        - Who says Catholics are all fluid in the scriptures? Up until the 4th century, it was mostly oral and written tradition, and that was the level of instruction taught by the early Church Fathers, and this by the way, has produced the best saints and martyrs, now have they labeled themselves “born again” christians? No!Not! What did they practice during those periods? It was all the Sacraments… and that is Catholic. Were they well-read on the bible from cover to cover? Were they debaters? NOPE, but they were living saints at that time. Now, let me ask you this, can you give me 1 person from the bible belt area that died fighting governments in the name of Jesus / The Holy Trinity? Can you name me one saint coming from evangelicals that fought in the name of the Church and Christ? Have you ever seen a protestant or evangelical that was nailed-crucified, lined up in a firing squad, got hanged/lynched, got burned at the stake all for the sake of not denying Christ’s Divinity? The problem with screaming evangelicals is they are all bark but have no bite…

        YOU SAID: You are ignorant because you don’t know the bible because all the cut and paste you did, Then the main reason you are ignorant in the Word of God, is because you Ray are not a born again Christian?

        - Did Jesus gave a quota on how many chapters and verses of the bible you have to memorize to be saved? How about following His commandments, beatitudes and the parables? How about all the martyrs that I mentioned, are they gonna be saved too? There was no handy bible back them? Have they memorized the bible? Do you need to have a Bachelors or PHD for it? Most people cannot even read or write here in the US and the world, so how is your sola scriptura gonna work? It is by far an abject failure, because everybody has their own interpretation and basically ending up putting up their own church, bec. a lot of them don’t agree with each other, now how is that for serving Christ? More divisions in Christianity creates a dialectical paradise for atheists and enemies of the church, and this has mutated to these so called denominations being funded by private interest groups-Mormons, Jehovah’s witness established by masons, fundamentalism-evangelicals established by the B’nai’Bri*th. This is the good thing about Catholicism, it does not require a predetermined level of intellect in a strict sense, a treasure trove of systematic theology or an acumen of the Bible. Because we are a faith or religion of a Person, not a faith of a book. The bible belongs to the church it is our canon of authoritative, inerrant, Sacred Scripture that is read extensively every single Mass and Christ is our object of worship and love. He just invites us anytime in the Sacraments. You see different people on church, teachers, peasants, poor, middle class, rich, educated, non-educated, smart and average people, strong, weak all in communion with each other to worship God.

        YOU SAID: SORRY the ROMAN catholic church has made a huge LIE in claiming they are the true church of God.. If peter was here today and walked into a church of yours he would be casting out demons for days. And no, Peter was NEVER a pope!!!!!!!!

        - You are always saying that Peter was never a Pope, that is completely wrong because that is prophesied in ISAIAH 22:20-21 for the Messianic Kingdom of God which Peter will be the “Gatekeeper” or the “Keeper” of the “Key(s)” of the Kingdom which is called “Father/Papa/Pope”.

        ISAIAH 22:20-21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into His hand: and he shall be a father to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

        ISAIAH 22:22-23 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon His shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And I will Fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to His Father’s house.

        - This “Prophecy” is fulfilled in St. Peter, “The Key” to whom The Kingdom of The Messiah was given and entrusted. Also given is the title of the ‘Father or Papa/Pope’ to The Kingdom of its inhabitants. Since St. Peter is the very 1st steward of the “Keys” of the Kingdom of Heaven from The Lord Jesus Christ ​​Himself, then He is the 1st Father/Pope/Papa of the Kingdom of Christ.

        - St. Peter is the Pope of the New Testament, bec. the Keys to Heaven was solely entrusted to him by Christ among all of the apostles.

        - This validates the succession among Popes, bec. St. Peter thru its Office of the Keys is Keeper of the Kingdom and therefore rebukes the notion that calling Peter “Pope” is unbiblical.

        - ISAIAH 22:20-21. The Key of the Kingdom of the Father is called “Papa”, in MT 16:18-19 Jesus handed and entrusted Peter ​​the Keys to the Kingdom.

        - Pope/Papa/Father is the Fulfillment of Prophecy was which was already stated in the Book of Isaiah. St. Peter was destined to fulfill The Prophecy as the “Gatekeeper” of the Kingdom.

        YOU SAID: I can’t believe the number of catholics i have worked with for many, many years, Most of them could not wait for the work day ended , so they could head for the bar and drink beer, as most also were continually taking God’s name in vain. and most if not all smoked cigs one right after another.
        also you said , if I was so ignorant in the bible, why would I point out all these false doctrines ( unfounded in the bible).

        - I heard this drama before-hundreds of times with protestants – cradle catholics, cafeteria catholics etc. not being spiritual this remark is fit for shop TV or Home Network LOL. Being a catholic does not mean that everybody is practicing it, I think this applies to all denominations and religions, it is something that everybody has to deal with and I believe that everybody will have their calling from God at one point in their lives this the reason why God gave us a free will, by choosing whatever we want to do with our lives (right or wrong), (serving Him or offending Him) and a conscience, to remind us of the consequences of what we do.

        YOU SAID I agree with you , we will not know the day or hour of Jesus return, But Jesus himself said, in Lk. 4:19 that he preached the acceptable year that he would return… Question what year do think THAT acceptable year of Jesus’ return is???

        _ Like I have said before God does not operate in space and time, what is 3.5 years in heaven? 3 seconds, 3 nano seconds? They are beyond time, language, knowledge, math, science, universe etc. Predicting Christ’s return in a given date (calendar) is putting ahead of yourself above Christ, this mantra has produced evangelical failures such as false prophets: Harold Camping, Hal Lindsay, etc. – they always ended up eating their words, I equate this stuff with the Pharisees asking Christ to save Himself on the cross if He was the True Son of God, I consider this challenging or tempting God’s Power and Divinity, this is blasphemous. Catholics are always advised to be in a “state of grace” bec. whether death, calamity, war or end of the world, this guarantees that you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

        YOU SAID: Ray, you are right, Jesus established THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, but Jesus did not establish the, “”roman”",catholic church as the TRUE church, for there were many churches established well before the RCC was ever thought of. So YOUR pope rules the Roman catholic church, ONLY. I know you won’t believe this statement , BUT fact is fact.
NOW,, Jesus in Jn 14:12 says ,”the things I do you, you shall do”, Jesus did a lot of things , but he did 3 things over and over,,, 
1.Jesus preached the Gospel
2. Jesus cast out Demons.
3. He laid hands on the sick and they are healed.
Mk.16:15-18 , Says these signs shall fallow those that believe .
1. They will preach the Gospel.
2. They will cast out Demons.
3. They will lay hands on the sick and they are hea led.
Ray I think you will agree with me,, there are very few churches that follow that pattern.
Funny that most if not all of those preachers you mentioned above does or did that pattern that Jesus laid out in Jn 14:12
And you think there was some bad guys out of that group.


        - Your beef with the term “Rome” is very atypical of an anti-catholic prot/evangelical. Emperor Constantine a Christian convert merged church, religion and state after his victory at the Milvian Bridge as instructed by Christ that is why it had the term “Rome”.

        - The Catholic Church practices what Christ has instructed them.
        - Jesus preached the Gospel – Homily in our Liturgy/Mass

        - Jesus cast out Demons. – Exorcism Rite

        - He laid hands on the sick and they are healed. – Extreme Unction and Healing of the Sick (Sacrament)


        YOU SAID: If you get a chance, get on the internet and type in “”the criminal history of the papacy , it might scare you, Happy reading

        LOL!! I have read and heard even worst than this, but I will be first answering on one of the biggest false accusations on the church:

        The Inquisition and Colonization:
        *Z*i*o’-media (msm books, tv, paid writers) will always tell you that it is the pope and the church who instigated this evil agenda against blacks (slavery), but little that the majority knows that the slave trade was a *j*e*w’i's’h enterprise, it first appeared in the so called voyage of 1492, it was not financed by Queen Isabella or the church. Christopher Columbus’ (Cristobal Colombo) voyage was financed by ‘maranos’ (crypto-*j*e*w*s* w/Catholic names). Fast-forward in the 16th Century after overthrowing King Charles I of England (Catholic King) by the banksters (Rothschilds), the slave trade was basically controlled hook, line and sinker by Nathan Mayer Rothschild (of the Rothschild Banking Dynasty), his biggest slave-trading agent was Aaron Lopez, established slave outposts on New Amsterdam (New York) & Newport, RI. That is why NY is one of the big money centers of the world.

        Crusade: What about the massacres and driving out of Christianity in Turkey-Byzantine Empire, is anyone complaining about this? This is just a response of abuse and oppression by Islam.

        Opium Trade: Same culprits – Rothschild banking family (Dutch East India bank) now HSBC, their agents David Sassoon (labeled as Rothschild of the East)

        Reformation, French Revolution, Bolshevik Revolution, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, WWI, WW2, UN, COLD WAR are all financed/sponsored by the same group. Now how many Catholics/Orthodox were genocide by these machinations? Millions? Have you heard anybody from the media complaining? None! bec everything is suppressed when it comes to Catholics. MSM media hates them to the bone bec. of their history w/this group and moral issues of today such as divorce, abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

        As I mentioned in my earlier comments (to George), it was the Catholic Church who fought against the banksters through pogroms and expelling them on 200 Christian kingdoms or countries due to Usury, money changing of this group under their Gold Standard scheme. They were able to make their punch when the Ro*thschil*d*s adopted the sabbatean frankists movement in the 16th Century, this is through subversive tactics that later became illuminism by financing Adam Weishauput in 1776 to infiltrate the church through subverting the Jesuit Order that led to the so-called reformation – This was the birth of protestantism and their covert war against the church called – freemasonry. This is why MSM media hates the church, bec. the Catholic Church placed a leash on them for centuries.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        If you would read the Bible you would find it saying pray for the government, not fight it!!!
        YOUR reply Ray, of how many books of the Bible, and how many verses do you have to memorize to be saved!!! Ray , Ray, you don’t have a clue do you? You don’t have a clue what being Born Again, saved is do you Ray? To belong to Jesus’ true Church, you have to be Born Again No where in the Bible does it say follow the 10 commandments to be Born Again, or, to be a christian. The Bible does not tell you to be a martyr, or hang on a cross, or be the target in a firing line, which by the way, Jesus said, those that live by the sword dies by the sword!
        MAYBE if all those perfect saints were Born Again they may have lived a much better life!!

        Ray when I told you to look up the criminal history , I was being nice , you said you read worse. I wonder, did you read about want to be Popes would murder other want to be Popes so they could be the new Pope!! MAYBE if all the Popes were Born Again which makes you a Christian, they may have led better lives
        Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world, therefore there would be no fighting people or governments!!
        It pays to stick to the Bible, and not traditions!!
        Iv’e got to go ,,, be back in 2-3 weeks
        Love Dwayne

      • KP

        first of all let me point something out to you, the new testament was written in Greek not in English, so it can be easy to be mislead, Peter in Greek means petros, which is translated as a pebble, pieces of rock etc, kinda like sand Jesus on the other hand was referring to an actual rock, petra

        Now i seem to remember a parable about a house of rock and a house of sand, remind which one was left standing

        Secondly the fact that Paul was the first Pope is an assumption, much like many other things that Catholics believe in just assumptions, like how Mary was sinless and she just ascended into Heaven, which to be honest makes it sound like she’s better than Christ who had to die, btw Romans 6:23 “the wages of sin is death” doesn’t refer to bodily death oh dont get me started on how she was supposedly a virgin after she gave birth to Christ…..long story short Jesus had brothers and sister

        Besides I’m pretty sure not once did Peter say, Christ by himself cant forgive sins, you need to confess to a pastor and i’m also fairly certain that not once did he say a hail Mary, or anything concerning Mary plus, I’m sure he only prayed to God, and don’t try to say he didn’t need to because we was an apostle blah blah, Peter often confessed that he was a sinner he always remained humble and never thought highly of himself, yet he still prayed directly to Jesus, btw when was the last time you heard someone rebuke a demon in Mary’s name and it worked? oh and Jesus left the cross so long ago……please stop thinking he’s still on it

        oh and because you asked, on May 21 1559, Christians were worshiping at home, the holy office found out and arrested them, btw what they were doing would’ve condemned them to death, among them was Dona Isabella, pregnant, she refused to to deny Jesus and the catholic tribunal threatened her with torture and death if she didnt confess to Mary, she refused still, they called her a heretic, and had water dropped in her mouth little by little, while a sharp brittle cloth was poured down her throat with metal claws holding her mouth open, and the just ripped it out, that wasnt all, she still refused to deny Christ and they simply burnt her at the stake oh and her cousin Phillip II went to view the burning its alleged that he really enjoyed it
        oh oh in case you dont believe in hell, Jesus mentions it quite a lot in Matthew, well not just mentioning it he describes it, but i dont seem to remember him or anyone else mentioning purgatory at all, except catholics for some weird reason and in case you wanna bring up, hell goes against God who is loving and loves man etc etc, remember Sodom and Gamora? well i’m pretty sure zues didnt do that, yes God loves us, but that doesnt mean we can go about disobeying and assuming we end up in heaven after a while, NO! hell was made for the devil and his agents yes, but we as man have made it for us as well, us not God all because of the decisions we make confess to Jesus and repent
        here’s a little something for ya too Hebrews 10:14 “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” stop implying that you’re sacrificing him again and again please, one was enough for all otherwise we’d still have to be killing goats and lambs every day for God to forgive us, dont you people know who Jesus is? what he’s capable of? what he already did? Listen i love you all, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity or even sexuality, my Lord Jesus has said to love one another so i will, but your practices are a different story, that i dont love, please seek Jesus, the true Jesus the devil has so many in a hold, so many lies are being spread, please choose Christ

      • ray

        YOU SAID: btw when was the last time you heard someone rebuke a demon in Mary’s name and it worked?

        ANSWER: The 15 Decades of Rosary (150 Hail Mary’s) instructed by the Blessed Mother to St. Dominic in the 12th Century is a counter-attack to the 150 Psalms of David recited by j*e*w*s who are awaiting their false messiah to establish a masonic world government in the state of *i*s*r*a*h*e*l*l*, sadly, this is cheerleaded by duped evangHellicals in the states, parroted by the likes of John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell and other false endtimers / preachers from the bible belt area. Mary is hated by the devil (now masons) since the beginning of time, see Genesis 3:15.

        ANSWER: Christ on the Cross reminds us about His Passion and Death, that He joins us in our suffering, that through the Cross He has partaken His Precious Blood to grant us forgiveness and give us the grace to carry our crosses, this is the true meaning of it, unlike evangHellicals who falsely preach another Jesus as a nice guy that can make you prosper in this world or the promise of striking it rich ala Joel Osteen’s prosperity gospel which is a complete heresy and the “don’t worry about hell attitude”, your already saved i.e. sola fide just by faith, which is another made up protestant dogma.

        ANSWER: Another evangHellical/protestant propaganda, well first the slave trade / inquisition is an industry owned solely by *j*e*w*s*, ever wonder why European Catholic monarchs issued edicts to ban, deport and prosletyze *j*e*w*s* in the past? As in my other comments in this blog before, these are the group of people who bankrupted nations/kingdoms by their usurious practices via their gold standard scheme. By this method they have controlled and manipulated credit, money/currency and allowed them to own commerce and trade. Their biggest industries are the slave trade, war financing and the opium trade. These are the very same people that have financed future wars (civil wars, WWI, WW2, revolutions, etc.) and have complete control of our money system – the private ownership of central banks (Fed Reserve, BOE, ECB) and private investment banks. The economic bubbles and crisis that we are facing right now are very much thesame in the past, this is why the hatred against them is so high, this is why the term crypto-*j*e*w* or the converso secret movement in Spain started so they could still operate in their evil schemes, a lot of them became high ranking priests, soldiers, politicians etc that led to so many crimes committed during the Spanish monarch reign. As for Isabel and her relatives – they are not protestants as your camp would have you believe! they are maranos or conversos, this is just a lame attempt for the victimization of the so called protestants to claim that Catholic Church are oppressors. How can they be protestants, the movement only started on 1517 in Germany, 1529-1536 The Church of England under Henry VIII was completed, and the Church of Scotland in the 1560′s. The reformation only gained success in the Northern parts of Europe, so 1554 protestant Spain is not possible? Nice try on this, but this is a very old tactic LOL!!! How about catholics and orthodox christians dying by the millions during communist, fascist, nazi, globalist dictatorship? Can we be also called victims? Can we use this too to attack proteststants?

      • ray

        test test

      • Guest

        YOU SAID: first of all let me point something out to you, the new testament was written in Greek not in English, so it can be easy to be mislead, Peter in Greek means petros, which is translated as a pebble, pieces of rock etc, kinda like sand Jesus on the other hand was referring to an actual rock, pert. Now i seem to remember a parable about a house of rock and a house of sand, remind which one was left standing

        ANSWER: There’s no need to tell me that the original New testament was written in Greek, if you know church history it was the Catholic Church, its Councils and the Final Authority – Magisterium (The Pope) was the one who codified and canonized the Scriptures (Holy Bible). In the 4th Century, Pope Damasus commissioned St. Jerome to translate it from hebrew, aramaic and greek to latin, that is why the original bible (compilation of sacred books) is the Latin Vulgate and then 1500 years later was perverted by different protestant denominations to fit their own beliefs and lifestyles, examples of these are: Schofield bible, Geneva bible, Mormon bible, NIV, New World translation, Clear Word bible, Moffat bible, Godspeed bible, Lamsa bible, King James vers., New King James vers. etc. FYI, it is the Catholic Church (its authority) decided which books are Divinely inspired and not Divinely inspired, that is why the joke is on you if you accuse Catholics of being unbiblical!

      • ray

        my replies are not going through

      • ray

        My comments are not going thru.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, sometimes you have to wait a few minutes for the reply to show up.

      • ray

        The Doctrine of The Assumption of Mary is different from “The Ascension of Christ” (He went to heaven himself). The Assumption of Mary (taken to heaven) is believed by the Early Church Fathers and Christians, this belief is also based on Sacred tradition. Enoch and Elijah was assumed into heaven in the scriptures, so why can’t the Mother of God be taken into heaven body and soul? The bible even proclaims that the Mother of God of The King of all nations is clothed with the sun in heaven (Rev. 12:1). The hostility among evangHellicals including you on Mary’s Assumption to heaven is a complete hypocrisy because zio-evangHellicals invented an unbiblical doctrine called “Rapture” which claims that the “burned again” cults will be snatched to heaven except the Mother of God, you should examine first your camp’s made-up dogma’s before you criticized the real church – Catholic Church. The hostility to the Immaculate Conception is thesame, the burned again cults believe that they are pre-destined (no matter what they do, they will go to heaven) but when it comes to the purity of the Blessed Mother, everybody disagrees with it. The Catholic Church bases itself on Scripture, Tradition and the Final Authority which is the Magisterium (Pope), not on the unbiblical doctrine called sola scriptura.

        The “Mary had children” lame argument has been debated since the 4th century by St. Jerome and Helvedian during the bible’s translation period, this is just being re-hashed by protestants to undermine the holiness and purity of The Blessed Virgin Mary, but they still fall flat bec. if Jesus had brothers how come all of them are absent during the most significant and critical moments of Christ’s childhood and ministry, First the presentation in the temple (it was only the trio of Joseph, Mary and Jesus), The finding of The Child Jesus when He got lost for 3 days (same trio), His circumcission (same trio), Wedding at Cana (Jesus & Mary), Christ’s miracles etc. in different places, His time of passion and death – Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and Pentecost. How come Christ gave His Mother to the care of Apostle John?

      • ray

        MY ANSWER: The fact that Paul was the first Pope is an assumption, much like many other things that Catholics believe in just assumptions. LOL!! Who says we assumed Paul was the first Pope? This is so laughable, I think you should double check your false references, very typical zio-evangelical protestant black propaganda. I have commented on ST. PETER as first pope before: Prophesied in ISAIAH 22:20-21 for the Messianic Kingdom of God which Peter will be the “Gatekeeper” or the “Keeper” of the “Key(s)” of the Kingdom which is called “Father/Papa/Pope”.

        ISAIAH 22:20-21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into His hand: and he shall be a father to the Inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

        ISAIAH 22:22-23 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon His shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And I will Fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to His Father’s house. This “Prophecy” is fulfilled in St. Peter, “The Key” to whom The Kingdom of The Messiah was given and entrusted. Also given is the title of the ‘Father or Papa/Pope’ to The Kingdom of its inhabitants. Since St. Peter is the very 1st steward of the “Keys” of the Kingdom of Heaven from The Lord Jesus Christ ​​Himself, then He is the 1st Father/Pope/Papa of the Kingdom of Christ.

        - St. Peter is the Pope of the New Testament, bec. the Keys to Heaven was solely entrusted to him by Christ among all of the apostles.

        - This validates the succession among Popes, bec. St. Peter thru its Office of the Keys as Keeper of the Kingdom and therefore rebukes the notion that calling Peter “Pope” is unbiblical.

        - ISAIAH 22:20-21 AM. Keeper. The Key of the Kingdom of the Father is called “Papa”, in MT 16:18-19 Jesus handed and entrusted Peter ​​the Keys to the Kingdom.

        - Pope/Papa/Father is the Fulfillment of Prophecy was which was already stated in the Book of Isaiah. St. Peter was destined to fulfill The Prophecy as the “Gatekeeper” of the Kingdom.

        YOU SAID: Besides I’m pretty sure not once did Peter say, Christ by himself cant forgive sins, you need to confess to a pastor and i’m also fairly certain that not once did he say a hail Mary, or anything concerning Mary plus, I’m sure he only prayed t o God, and don’t try to say he didn’t need to because we was an apostle blah blah, Peter often confessed that he was a sinner he always remained humble and never thought highly of himself, yet he still prayed directly to Jesus.

        ANSWER: The authority to forgive and absolve sins was given to priests by Christ. “Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained”. (John 20:23). The Authority is given by Christ to St. Peter. “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. You forbid on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”(Matthew 16:19)

        - These authority is also handed down through succession – From the Pope, Ordination of Bishops cardinals, priests, deacons etc. Priests are defined as a person having the authority to perform and administer religious rites, (in persona Christi), in the person of Christ. In speaking to his disciples, Jesus said, “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me” (Lk 10:16). “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (Jn 20:22-23). Other biblical verses on priests: Exodus 19:6, Numbers 1:48-53, (Letter to the) Hebrews 5: 1-4, Leviticus 5:1, 5-6, 1 Peter 3: 18-22, John 6: 48-58, Genesis 14:18-20, Psalm 110, Mark 2: 5-7, John 20:21-23, Mark 6: 7, 12-13, Luke 22: 8-20, 1 Corinthians 11:23-29, 2 Timothy 1: 5-14, Matthew 19: 11-12, 1 Corinthians 7:32-35, Revelation 14:1-5

        “Like living stones, you’ll be part of a spiritual temple. As the priests assigned to God, to offer to God the spiritual sacrifices pleasing to him for the sake of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5). If we notice the stone greek is “λίθος” or “lithos”, stone, boulder; this can refer to stone as a material or substance, and to a stone as a piece of rock. And can we please compared with St. Peter in Matthew 16:18 as “Πέτρος” or “Petros”, this has the individual designative meaning rock or stone, rock, stone. Here we please find out what the relationship of St. Peter priests, why they invited St. Peter to be part of a spiritual temple. In addition, St. Paul as one of the Apostles of Jesus Christ is also a priest. “To be a servant of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles AS PRIEST.” (Romans 15:16)

        In Greek this too is written. eis to einai me leitourgon iEsou Christou eis ta ethne. The word used is “Leitourgon”. Leitourgon is the Greek parent are priority is derived from the modern word Liturgy. Greek dictionary – From leitourgeo; public function (as priest (“liturgy”) or almsgiver).

        Says St. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians, “and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.” In English, “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.” (2 Corinthians 5:18). God gave the “Sacrament of Reconciliation” so we are not deceived by Satan. “Whoever I forgive are forgiven as well. I have forgiven, if any, should I forgive, I forgave the presence of Christ for the sake of you, so we are not deceived by Satan and are not unknown to us he wants to happen.

        (2 Corinthians 2:10-11). “Then Peter spoke, I now fully understand that God really indiscriminately. Pleased he has any fear of him and doing right, even from any country.” (Acts 10:34-36). Hebrew 5:1-4 – “Every high priest is selected from the people and placed in such a duty to serve God’s people. He is offering gifts and sacrifices for sins forgiven. He felt the weakness of the ignorant and wayward path because he is weak even as they. And because of his weakness, he must offer a sacrifice, not only for the sins of others, but for him also the honor of being kasalanan.Ang priest can not possess anyone to his own tastes. God chooses him, as he did with Aaron. (Hebrews 5:1-4). In Detail: Hebrews 5:1 – “Every high priest is selected from the people and placed in such a duty to serve God’s people”. The priests were chosen from the people and not angels. Hebrews 5:2 – “He is offering gifts and sacrifices for sins forgiven.” Work of the priests to offer gifts and sacrifices for the remission of sins. “He felt the weakness of the ignorant and wayward path because he is weak even as they.” – Hebrews 5:3 – “And because of his weakness, he must offer a sacrifice, not only for the sins of others, but also for her sins”. Scripture also recognizes that priests have vulnerabilities, And if they will sin offering they also sacrifice for their sins. Hebrews 5:4 – “God chooses him,” Are we more objectionable? If God chose a priest weakness, who please God we to complain? The Sacrament of Confession is very important because we have two classes of sins – Mortal (deadly) and Venial. “If anyone is to see his brother sin makes not lead to death, her brother pray that God will give him a new life. It is for brethren to sin does not lead to death. There is a sin leads to death, and I pray for anyone who claims it makes. “(1 John 5:16). Venial sins we can confess directly to God, but mortal we need to confess to the priest, “Pray for her brother that God would give him a new life. It is for brethren to sin does not lead to death”. There are sins that can lead us to death (mortal sin), and we can not please God by confessing directly to Him.

      • ray

        YOU SAID: btw when was the last time you heard someone rebuke a demon in Mary’s name and it worked?

        ANSWER: The 15 Decades of Rosary (150 Hail Mary’s) instructed by the Blessed Mother to St. Dominic in the 12th Century is a counter-attack to the 150 Psalms of David recited by j*e*w*s who are awaiting their false messiah to establish a masonic world government in the state of *i*s*r*a*h*e*l*l*, sadly, this is cheerleaded by duped evangHellicals in the states, parroted by the likes of John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell and other false endtimers / preachers from the bible belt area. Mary is hated by the devil (now masons) since the beginning of time, see Genesis 3:15.

        YOU SAID: oh and Jesus left the cross so long ago……please stop thinking he’s still on it.

        ANSWER: Christ on the Cross reminds us about His Passion and Death, that He joins us in our suffering, that through the Cross He has partaken His Precious Blood to grant us forgiveness and give us the grace to carry our crosses, this is the true meaning of it, unlike evangHellicals who falsely preach another Jesus as a nice guy that can make you prosper in this world or the promise of striking it rich ala Joel Osteen’s prosperity gospel which is a complete heresy and the “don’t worry about hell attitude”, your already saved i.e. sola fide just by faith, which is another made up protestant dogma.

      • ray

        ANSWER: The Sacrament of the Holy Communion in the Holy Mass (instituted by Christ) has been the belief and practice of the Apostles, Early Church Fathers (Ignatius of Antioch, Iranaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, etc.), Early Christians (Catholics-true Christians) since time and beginning of the Church. It is even prophesied by Malachai (1:10-11) that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have “a pure offering” made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is outside space and time, Christ is outside of time (timeless) same as His Sacrifice, it is eternal. Hebrews 9 & 10 are validations of the Eucharist as Christ is NOT re-sacrificed again and again – Christ’s sacrifice HAPPENED, the action is finished, yet the blessings still remain, The Eucharist is NOT a re-sacrifice but the self same sacrifice. Receiving Holy Communion and all other Sacraments (dwelling place of the Holy Ghost) is how Catholics receive God’s saving grace – So they can have the strength to persevere, overcome temptations, serve God (Christ’s) Commandments, to be holy in a consistent basis in our earthly life, This Sacrament is our Spiritual Nourishment/ Food which is “Life” as mentioned in John 6:63. Now let me ask you this if just hearing, talking about the Word of God just like evangelicals are doing, if it is really sufficient, how come there are 40,000+ denominations who can’t agree with each other theologically!!, it seems like they have the “spirit of confusion” not God’s Spirit. There are tons of biblical verses that explains the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

        The Holy Eucharist is promised: John 6:35-71, Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist – 1 Corinthians 2:14 to 1 Corinthians 3:4, St. Paul explains what Jesus means by the flesh. Foretold and prefigured: Exodus 12:8, 46, Paschal lamb had to be eaten – Exodus 16:15, “This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat.” (manna), Malachi 1:11 – “Everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering.”, John 6:32-60 – The Bread of Life discourse – Jesus refers back to the manna of the Old Testament.

        See also: Psalms 78:24ff, Proverbs 9:2ff, Wisdom 16:20. Instituted by Christ – Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, and Luke 22:17-20

        Eucharist is instituted by Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:7

        Jesus is called the Paschal Lamb who has been sacrificed – 1 Corinthians 11:23-25. St. Paul pens the earliest written account of the institution of the Eucharist – John 1:29. Jesus is called “the Lamb of God”, Celebrated by the Apostles – Acts 2:42.

        “Devoted themselves to the … breaking of the bread and to the prayers.” – Acts 20:7. “First day of the week when we gathered to break bread.” – 1 Corinthians 10:16-22. Eucharist is our participation in Christ’s Body and Blood – Christ is truly present in the Eucharist.

        Matthew 26:26 – “Take and eat, this is My Body.”

        Mark 14:22-24 – “This is My Body … This is My Blood of the Covenant.”

        Luke 22:19-20 – “This is My Body, which will be given for you … New Covenant in My Blood.”

        1 Corinthians 10:16 – In the Eucharist, we participate in the Body and Blood of Christ.

        1 Corinthians 11:24 – “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

        John 6:50-69 says: This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world. The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat? Jesus said to them, Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever. These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, This saying is hard; who can accept it? Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [See note 1.] But there are some of you who do not believe. Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father. As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, Do you also want to leave? Simon Peter answered him, Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.

      • ray

        YOU SAID: btw when was the last time you heard someone rebuke a demon in Mary’s name and it worked?

        ANSWER: The 15 Decades of Rosary (150 Hail Mary’s) instructed by the Blessed Mother to St. Dominic in the 12th Century is a counter-attack to the 150 Psalms of David recited by j*e*w*s who are awaiting their false messiah to establish a masonic world government in the state of *i*s*r*a*h*e*l*l*, sadly, this is cheerleaded by duped evangHellicals in the states, parroted by the likes of John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell and other false endtimers / preachers from the bible belt area. Mary is hated by the devil (now masons) since the beginning of time, see Genesis 3:15.

        YOU SAID: oh and Jesus left the cross so long ago……please stop thinking he’s still on it.

        ANSWER: Christ on the Cross reminds us about His Passion and Death, that He joins us in our suffering, that through the Cross He has partaken His Precious Blood to grant us forgiveness and give us the grace to carry our crosses, this is the true meaning of it, unlike evangHellicals who falsely preach another Jesus as a nice guy that can make you prosper in this world or the promise of striking it rich ala Joel Osteen’s prosperity gospel which is a complete heresy and the “don’t worry about hell attitude”, your already saved i.e. sola fide just by faith, which is another made up protestant dogma.

      • ray

        YOU SAID: Oh and because you asked, on May 21 1559, Christians were worshiping at home, the holy office found out and arrested them, btw what they were doing would’ve condemned them to death, among them was Dona Isabella, pregnant, she refused to to deny Jesus and the catholic tribunal threatened her with torture and death if she didnt confess to Mary, she refused still, they calle d her a heretic, and had water dropped in her mouth little by little, while a sharp brittle cloth was poured down her throat with metal claws holding her mouth open, and the just ripped it out, that wasnt all, she still refused to deny Christ and they simply burnt her at the stake oh and her cousin Phillip II went to view the burning its alleged that he really enjoyed it

        ANSWER: Another evangHellical/protestant propaganda, well first the slave trade / inquisition is an industry owned solely by *j*e*w*s*, ever wonder why European Catholic monarchs issued edicts to ban, deport and prosletyze *j*e*w*s* in the past? As in my other comments in this blog before, these are the group of people who bankrupted nations/kingdoms by their usurious practices via their gold standard scheme. By this method they have controlled and manipulated credit, money/currency and allowed them to own commerce and trade. Their biggest industries are the slave trade, war financing and the opium trade. These are the very same people that have financed future wars (civil wars, WWI, WW2, revolutions, etc.) and have complete control of our money system – the private ownership of central banks (Fed Reserve, BOE, ECB) and private investment banks. The economic bubbles and crisis that we are facing right now are very much thesame in the past, this is why the hatred against them is so high, this is why the term crypto-*j*e*w* or the converso secret movement in Spain started so they could still operate in their evil schemes, a lot of them became high ranking priests, soldiers, politicians etc that led to so many crimes committed during the Spanish monarch reign. As for Isabel and her relatives – they are not protestants as your camp would have you believe! they are maranos or conversos, this is just a lame attempt for the victimization of the so called protestants to claim that Catholic Church are oppressors. How can they be protestants, the movement only started on 1517 in Germany, 1529-1536 The Church of England under Henry VIII was completed, and the Church of Scotland in the 1560′s. The reformation only gained success in the Northern parts of Europe, so 1554 protestant Spain is not possible? Nice try on this, but this is a very old tactic LOL!!! How about catholics and orthodox christians dying by the millions during communist, fascist, nazi, globalist dictatorship? Can we be also called victims? Can we use this too to attack proteststants?

        YOU SAID: oh oh in case you dont believe in hell, Jesus mentions it quite a lot in Matthew, well not just mentioning it he describes it, but i dont seem to remember him or anyone else mentioning purgatory at all, except catholics for some weird reason and in case you wanna bring up, hell goes against God who is loving and loves man etc etc, remember Sodom and Gamora? well i’m pretty sure zues didnt do that, yes God loves us, but that doesnt mean we can go about disobeying and assuming we end up in heaven after a while, NO! hell was made for the devil and his agents yes, but we as man have made it for us as well, us no t God al l because of the decisions we make confess to Jesus and repent

        ANSWER: Who says Catholics don’t believe in hell?? LOL?? Have you read the catechism of the Catholic Church? Maybe try reading it first before making ignorant accusations. Purgatory is just a state of cleansing because all of us are not perfect when we die, there are still venial sins attached to us even though we have prepared ourselves in this world. This is just logical because Christ said, be Holy as your Heavenly Father is holy.

      • ray

        YOU SAID: btw when was the last time you heard someone rebuke a demon in Mary’s name and it worked?

        ANSWER: The 15 Decades of Rosary (150 Hail Mary’s) instructed by the Blessed Mother to St. Dominic in the 12th Century is a counter-attack to the 150 Psalms of David recited by j*e*w*s who are awaiting their false messiah to establish a masonic world government in the state of *i*s*r*a*h*e*l*l*, sadly, this is cheerleaded by duped evangHellicals in the states, parroted by the likes of John Hagee, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell and other false endtimers / preachers from the bible belt area. Mary is hated by the devil (now masons) since the beginning of time, see Genesis 3:15.

        YOU SAID: oh and Jesus left the cross so long ago……please stop thinking he’s still on it.

        ANSWER: Christ on the Cross reminds us about His Passion and Death, that He joins us in our suffering, that through the Cross He has partaken His Precious Blood to grant us forgiveness and give us the grace to carry our crosses, this is the true meaning of it, unlike evangHellicals who falsely preach another Jesus as a nice guy that can make you prosper in this world or the promise of striking it rich ala Joel Osteen’s prosperity gospel which is a complete heresy and the “don’t worry about hell attitude”, your already saved i.e. sola fide just by faith, which is another made up protestant dogma.

        YOU SAID: Oh and because you asked, on May 21 1559, Christians were worshiping at home, the holy office found out and arrested them, btw what they were doing would’ve condemned them to death, among them was Dona Isabella…

        ANSWER: Another evangHellical/protestant propaganda, well first the slave trade / inquisition is an industry owned solely by *j*e*w*s*, ever wonder why European Catholic monarchs issued edicts to ban, deport and prosletyze *j*e*w*s* in the past? As in my other comments in this blog before, these are the group of people who bankrupted nations/kingdoms by their usurious practices via their gold standard scheme. By this method they have controlled and manipulated credit, money/currency and allowed them to own commerce and trade. Their biggest industries are the slave trade, war financing and the opium trade. These are the very same people that have financed future wars (civil wars, WWI, WW2, revolutions, etc.) and have complete control of our money system – the private ownership of central banks (Fed Reserve, BOE, ECB) and private investment banks. The economic bubbles and crisis that we are facing right now are very much thesame in the past, this is why the hatred against them is so high, this is why the term crypto-*j*e*w* or the converso secret movement in Spain started so they could still operate in their evil schemes, a lot of them became high ranking priests, soldiers, politicians etc that led to so many crimes committed during the Spanish monarch reign. As for Isabel and her relatives – they are not protestants as your camp would have you believe! they are maranos or conversos, this is just a lame attempt for the victimization of the so called protestants to claim that Catholic Church are oppressors. How can they be protestants, the movement only started on 1517 in Germany, 1529-1536 The Church of England under Henry VIII was completed, and the Church of Scotland in the 1560′s. The reformation only gained success in the Northern parts of Europe, so 1554 protestant Spain is not possible? Nice try on this, but this is a very old tactic LOL!!! How about catholics and orthodox christians dying by the millions during communist, fascist, nazi, globalist dictatorship? Can we be also called victims? Can we use this too to attack proteststants?

        YOU SAID: oh oh in case you dont believe in hell, Jesus mentions it quite a lot in Matthew, well not just mentioning it he describes it, but i dont seem to remember him or anyone else mentioning purgatory at all, except catholics for some weird reason and in case you wanna bring up, hell goes against God who is loving and loves man etc etc, remember Sodom and Gamora? well i’m pretty sure zues didnt do that, yes God loves us, but that doesnt mean we can go about disobeying and assuming we end up in heaven after a while, NO! hell was made for the devil and his agents yes, but we as man have made it for us as well, us no t God al l because of the decisions we make confess to Jesus and repent

        ANSWER: Who says Catholics don’t believe in hell?? LOL?? Have you read the catechism of the Catholic Church? Maybe try reading it first before making ignorant accusations. Purgatory is just a state of cleansing because all of us are not perfect when we die, there are still venial sins attached to us even though we have prepared ourselves in this world. This is just logical because Christ said, be Holy as your Heavenly Father is holy.

      • t cook

        Slavery i thought began in Egypt with the hebrews but I could b wrong…just going by the old testament

      • JuliePurple

        Just a quick Google search on the origins of slavery yielded this from Wikipedia: ”

        “Evidence of slavery predates written records, the practice of slavery would have proliferated after the development of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution about 11,000 years ago.

        Slavery was known in civilizations as old as Sumer, as well as almost every other ancient civilization, including Ancient Egypt, Ancient China, the Akkadian Empire, Assyria, Ancient India, Ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphate, and the pre-Columbian civilizations of the Americas”
        When you’re looking for historically verifiable facts, it’s well to look elsewhere than in the bible.

      • ray

        Slavery / Subjugation of humanity has been part of caste systems in every society in the world, in the last 500 years *j*e*w*i*s*h top dogs (elite) has made this an industry to profit and dominate the whole world, just like wars, prostitution, sexual perverted entertainment (pornography), usury – banking, drugs etc.

      • JuliePurple

        Whoa, dude, you’re perpetuating a mistaken stereotype. Please check your facts and use an unprejudiced source.

      • ray

        I specifically said *j*e*w*i*s*h* top dogs (elite), that is not prejudice – That is a fact! Search the Rothschilds, Schiffs, Warburgs and their cabal, they were all behind wars – WW1, WW2, American Civil war, European Wars, English Civil Wars, Slave trades, Opium trades etc, they have financed all the tyrants such as Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc, That is how they have accumulated their wealth overtime! Why do you have all these mega banking collapse and at thesame time they got bailed out? You think that is an accident? Who created all this bubble economies that we have seen since the great depression? Central (private) banking monopoly has allowed them to do this – They create money out of thin air and they Charge the public thru taxation! google it you’ll see, the media hides this because they control it top to bottom, they are also behind the fake paradigm called feminism, civil rights and now gay rights! This is all their agenda to divide, conquer, destroy society under the guise of equality and modernism, This is a fact! The problem with society right now is they want to believe their lies, they have conditioned them to the point that they are now sheeps ready to get slaughtered. Search: Wall Street and The Rise of Hitler and History of the Money Changers and see for yourself if I am prejudice or not.

      • JuliePurple

        Ah, I see. It’s tinfoil hat time, then.

      • ray

        Why? Because CNN, Fox News, NBC, Bloomberg and all the textbooks, publishing companies, radio, Hollywood, Madison Avenue did not broadcast them in your wonderful television show portrayed by your favorite actor and celebrity? Why do you think mainstream media lies all the time, look at the banking/financial scandals? Who went to jail? NONE. Look at all the government shenanigans happening right now?No one is accountable. Is it a fantasy that we are moving to a police state?Who is behind all of them?Well they can’t be Mexicans, Chinese, or Papua New Guinean are they? You do not need rocket science for this, I guess it is the Catholic Church and the Pope.

      • pax2u

        and the Vatican has that super duper computer with your name and address, and that super super duper duper drone flying over your house right now spraying your house with holy water exorcising your demons.

        and the Vatican owns all of the aluminum companies so when you make your tinfoil hat, they still make money off of the conspiracy theorists

        this was sarcasm, just in case you may want to believe it

      • JuliePurple

        Pax2u, I see your earlier comment got deleted. Bummer. i thought it was pretty good. But yeah, tinfoil hats are the going thing!

      • JuliePurple

        Slavery began way before that. Google “history of slavery in the world” or something similar.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        One proof that will destroy ALL what the ROMAN catholic church stands on! This is also in answer to you post to me.
        1. Gal. 2:8 states the Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Jews, as was Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles! Also Romans 11:13. Peter was never in Rome, let alone the catholics claim that he was their first pope. Peter was always within the realm of Jerusalem fulfilling his duty as the Apostle to the Jews.
        2. There were many Churches already established before the ROMAN catholic church came into being, as Jesus had ordered the disciples to go to the lost tribes of Israel, which was to the north of Israel and hundreds of miles to the east. many churches were established well before the ROMAN catholic church was established!
        So look at the lie the ROMAN catholic church has forced on to the world.
        The churches of the east, ( no not eastern orthodox), were well established 50-70 AD, and larger in number of people belonging to these churches than the eastern orthodox, and ROMAN catholic churches combined, until the years 1400 AD.
        3. I agree with you on the above groups of religions, you mentioned in your post above,, their problem is just like the ROMAN catholic church, they take one verse, “”thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church”" and build a false doctrine!! Notice ,, Jesus builds his church, and as I have proven before, there were many churches in the east and north of Israel before the ROMAN catholic church came into existence.
        Again,,, the falseness the ROMAN catholic church has spread around the world, along with all false religions.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Ray, you are right, Jesus established THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, but Jesus did not establish the, “”roman”",catholic church as the TRUE church, for there were many churches established well before the RCC was ever thought of. So YOUR pope rules the Roman catholic church, ONLY. I know you won’t believe this statement , BUT fact is fact.
        NOW,, Jesus in Jn 14:12 says ,”the things I do you, you shall do”, Jesus did a lot of things , but he did 3 things over and over,,,
        1.Jesus preached the Gospel
        2. Jesus cast out Demons.
        3. He laid hands on the sick and they are healed.
        Mk.16:15-18 , Says these signs shall fallow those that believe .
        1. They will preach the Gospel.
        2. They will cast out Demons.
        3. They will lay hands on the sick and they are healed.
        Ray I think you will agree with me,, there are very few churches that follow that pattern.
        Funny that most if not all of those preachers you mentioned above does or did that pattern that Jesus laid out in Jn 14:12
        And you think there was some bad guys out of that group.
        If you get a chance, get on the internet and type in “”the criminal history of the papacy , it might scare you,

        Happy reading

  • Pastor Dwayne

    So once again,, someone tell me ,,, why were the Jews blinde , hard hearted, and couldn’t hear wit their ears?

  • JuliePurple

    Ohhh, guys, I finally get it! I fell for it! I was walking my dogs about an hour or so ago, and I was thinking, wow, that Pastor Dwayne is like a caricature of a fundamentalist preacher… and then it hit me. He’s been putting us all on. He’s probably a 15 year old kid having a great laugh at how so many of us took him seriously, at least in the sense of thinking that P. D. was serious. Because, really, how can anyone actually believe all that … erm… stuff…?
    And I have to say, well done, “Pastor Dwayne”! You are a skilled actor! Well done!

    • Pastor Dwayne

      Answer my question below,,,,, why were the Jews blinded so they couldn’t see, hardhearted, and couldn’t hear???????????????????? he he
      You stated ,,, how can anyone actually believe all that….erm…stuff…?
      Here is your answer, to the people in the world, (like you), it truly is just stuff, but once you are , oh, uh, gee, golly, dang, gee whizzz, oh yes, once you are BORN AGAIN , also called, saved, the way, new birth………………….you will only then understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hehe

      • JuliePurple

        Pretty funny! Why were people (in this case, the Jews) ignoring myths? Gosh, maybe because they didn’t happen. Dwayne, seriously, good acting!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        The Jews , according to the Word of God were hardened in their heart , blinded in their eyes and hard of hearing, for ONE thing , so they would reject Jesus Christ when He came! For one reason, so the Gospel would thin be taken to the Gentile world, which includes JuliePurple…………..

      • JuliePurple

        So kind of you to remember me. “Gentile” is all non-Jews, by the way. So you are correct that I’m not Jewish.
        Dwayne, you like to think that the Jews were blind and so forth. See above, re: being blind to things that didn’t happen.
        I’m not going to go another round with you Dwayne. Your avoidance of facts and logic makes it rather like attempting to have a coherent discussion with a turtle. (With apologies to turtles for the comparison :-) )
        As Thomas Paine said, “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”

      • Pastor Dwayne

        What medicine do you take? It’s understandable though, worldly reason can’t come close to spirituality , (God given spirituality ) that is.

      • al

        Right on Pastor Dwayne JUST TELL IT LIKE IT IS (TRUTH) GOD BLESS!!!

  • Pastor Dwayne

    A question for all, some should know the answer. question ,,, Why were the Jews blinded, hard hearted, and couldn’t hear??? Now mind you, they could see, they had a heart, and they could hear , but when it came time to believe the truth, Their heart was hardened , they could not see nor hear , so why was it so?

    • YaraGreyjoy

      I’m gonna ask you to come out and tell us why you think this was so.

      But if you actually want to know what I can recall off the top of my head it’s this interpretation of that particular passage: That God actually made the hearts of those specific Jews hardened in order to fulfill the prophesy of Jesus’s martyrdom. Note the active verbiage: their hearts were hardened not simply “they had hard hearts” the implication being something actively hardened/blinded their eyes etc.

      Side note: this is just another (what has always been to my eyes) obvious argument against what is known as the awful “blood libel” all Christians used for thousands of years as the primary justification of the persecution of and murder of jewry all over the world ie the blame on the Jewish people as a whole for the death of Christ. If their actions were the result of divine intercession, the question of personal (or in this instance collective) guilt is nullified as they were fulfilling God’s will, not their own.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        To make it short, Very true God hardened the Jews hearts and continues to do so and will to the end of the times of the Gentiles, when The Lord will Open their eyes after the time of Jacobs great trouble! ( the great tribulation ).
        They were blinded so they would reject Jesus , then the Gospel would then be taken to the Gentiles.
        The original Church of Christ was a lot of Jews and a few Gentiles!
        So if you are a Born Again Christian, thank the Jews.
        Since Jesus died for all of humanity, YaraGreyjoy. and all humanity crucified Jesus, and to correct you,,,, Not, all Christians but some Christians, blame the Jews for Jesus’ death.

      • YaraGreyjoy

        yeah, I was really referring to the historical practice of “blood libel” – I can’t think of any Christians who blame the Jews as a tenet of their religion – that’s largely been relegated to the past, thankfully. It had a long history but as they say “thank god it’s over!”

      • Pastor Dwayne

        BUT,are you Born Again??? ( according to the Word of God )

      • YaraGreyjoy

        This question deserves a deeply thoughtful answer. I hope, Pastor Dwayne, that you will remember that I was not raised hence not schooled in the same language of religion that you use so please, bear that in mind as I know words will indeed fail me as what I am offering up to you is a very honest & intimate look into my deepest spirituality so please, also bear that in mind & if I use a phrase or word incorrectly to your ears, let me know. Here goes:

        After a long, close examination of my deeply, deeply felt (I’d say known) beliefs I’m pretty sure I can honestly say that based on everything you told me about being Born Again in the Lord, yes I am & if words don’t fail me which I fear they most certainly will, I think you would agree.

        I long ago took Jesus into my heart, I opened the doors for him. As I searched my soul, making note of the fire I feel, the certainty of Jesus’s moral righteousness, I also noticed that I do not “control” this, but my moral passions burn one with the Word – and who is the Word? Jesus. Come to think on it, he’s all I ever really paid attention to naturally so I guess I just never was given the opportunity to look at it from this enlightening point of view for me (thank you for that). I am only a conduit through which the teachings of Christ according to the Scriptures flow into & that phenomenon, not “me” or my “ego” but that fire, if you will allow a term I think is most descriptive, is responsible for all good acts I may perform as it’s the natural product of a Christ-centered mind.

        As a minor side note, I noticed how unattached I am spiritually to the Mary & the Saints – it just leaves me cold & always did, but I’ve always been that way. I just never thought much about it before – it was always about the teachings of Christ for me.

        Another thing, this may be nothing, I debated if I should even write this on a public message board but it might possibly pertain to your question & you might have unique insights even if it’s not. Again, please remember I was not raised with knowledge of the vocabulary most familiar to you & vice versa so allow me to clarify my meaning if something sounds odd or weird. Here is my story:

        For too many years of anguish for me, separated from God by my own remorseful conclusion common to that young age to only believe what my eyes & ears could report, forgetting the finer senses more attuned to most of what makes life worth living especially to be open to God. I didn’t want this to be true, but I felt beaten down hard by the way things are now. It was darkness & grief for me until one day I did a “self-audit” if you will or a conscience/belief check, an examination of my innermost feelings & beliefs down to the bedrock. I realized I affirmed the Gospels in total (even the parts some people find “scary” – I believe in those parts as much as the rest, I’m “with” the angry Jesus who came to bring a sword & who threw the money changers out of the Temple), in my heart & soul with fire. I have an iron clad “knowing” it’s correctness, pointing true North.

        So I said to my self that that’s ok as far as right and wrong goes (even though to accept the Word of Jesus is to accept Jesus one might argue) but what about acceptance of the divinity of such teaching… or that a divinity even exists. It was then I believe I was “gifted” a gentle, I’m not sure what to call it, that aided me in confirming my belief in the divine. It was all I needed, the tiniest revelation that I in my sorrow had been blind to but was right there in front of me, as if something lifted a veil from my eyes to see. Here’s my tiny… I don’t know what to call it but I don’t want to get too hung up on terms now so here it is:

        What makes actions intrinsically right or wrong? If, as so many very powerful people now believe human life is worthless as is the dignity of their fellow man when weighed against money ie power, so why do almost all of God’s children react to sins committed against their fellow man with a universal recognition of the wrongness of the act? If there is nothing to man but meat then sure, why not chop him up & sell him for gold? I kept coming back to one word, a word that anchored me: sanctity, that which is sacred.

        I realized that the evidence of Christ’s divinity was there before me – in every person & all of creation… There is no sacredness without an external divinity to instill the sense of it in us. Humanity’s near universal sense of these things: an abhorrence of murder, or the violation of a child, morality we are born with which I would call our recognition of & rejection of sinning against that which is divine ie against God, ie the sacredness inbuilt in all of us and other things under creation & that which flows from it too.

        Without this unquantifiable phenomenon, the sliver of divinity in all of us, is the only thing capable of making us feel the inherent wrongness or rightness of an action. You take an axe to a chair, you feel nothing, you take an axe to a fellow human being & you feel the most horrifying of feelings, dread & horrible emptiness coming directly from your soul. So there I had what i needed, my compass set straight & my belief in God restored & I was happy again – I . Maybe this is nothing to do with being born again, I imagine everyone has a very personal experience of that but something outside of me gifted me back my faith & took me from my despair. It was then I put it all together and yes, became absolutely “born again” in the love for and faith in Jesus Christ & the Word of God which is one & the same.

        I hope I haven’t forgotten to address something – remember, I’m working on unfamiliar territory using language & a structure that’s very alien to me. I’m very curious to know what you think. I even tried to do more research what it means to be “born again” to make sure I was on track, I hope it didn’t muddle me. Thank you for listening to my story, I look forward to your response. Since it’s my most personal spiritual experiences, please be kind & please don’t jump to conclusions before discussing a grey area with me, please! Thank you again, this was a great exercise for me spiritually, regardless of what may come. Thank you.

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, that was beautiful.

      • YaraGreyjoy

        I hope you’re not being sarcastic – cuz I like you :) I did a radical thing especially on the internet: I stood naked, and was honest (although it is filtered through a very foreign concept to me & I’m sure that alters it in someway: the “born again” speak – very alien to me. So yeah, I’m just a very devoted radical social justice Catholic (I know I’m heretical in my beliefs as were the Jesuits & nuns who taught me that I mentioned to you) for the only evidence of divinity I can see is literally in the eyes of others which compels me to engage in acts of mercy to ease the suffering of others & there’s so much.

        A Jesuit priest who I was very fond of put it this way to me when I was a kid & asking “Yeah but how do you know there’s a God?” and he answered a few times, but I persisted in anxiety & he turned to me & said “Say for argument’s sake there is no God, is service to people in need a life you’d regret on your deathbed?” And for me the answer for me was a strong “No.”

        I believe rock-solid in the rights & dignity inviolate and inherent not only humans but also to the rest of the world & even the products of human endeavors not to be abused & stripped of dignity. That’s plainly all I know regarding spirituality. I’m shaky as a three-legged card table on the other end, the esoteric side, like “having faith” & such as you can see – it’s very hard for me to “have faith,” and I don’t have it at times, many times, even most of the time – but one thing I never waver in is my belief in the sanctity of, let’s for ease of argument call it “The goodness of creation & all the fruits that spring from it.”

        Ok, end of line. Enough or too much said, but at least it’s the truth. :)

      • JuliePurple

        No, I wasn’t being sarcastic at all. I admire your courage in speaking of such an intimate experience, as well. And I like you, too. I think you’re a really cool, decent person, who is (YAY!!) also intelligent, logical, sensible, and willing to learn. Way cool. And I’m totally with you on the coolness of the universe and all. Awesome stuff, that.
        That Jesuit priest — wow, I wish I’d had some like him when I was a kid. Not saying I’d believe what isn’t provable by evidence, not at all, but I probably wouldn’t be so intent on interjecting logic into spiritual conversations. Well, maybe I would. Hard to say. :-) Heh, if I’d been so persistent in my questions, I’d likely have gotten more of the “have faith”, “God works in mysterious ways”, “it’s not for us to understand”, and, in response to my saying, “But that doesn’t make any sense!”, “Go write out 100 times ‘I will have faith’”

      • YaraGreyjoy

        I just want to say I think exactly the same of you too – I think our “secret” to being this way is we’re not easily threatened by the thought someone else might hold a position or belief they disagree with.

        I feel I have to say, regarding my RC childhood/adolescent experience, I was freaking spoiled. I wish people like you would have had more positive experiences to recall – not to change you or god forbid, “convert you” or whatever, but b/c there are enough miserable experiences in life, I’d prefer it if you had an experience more like mine and I bet you probably would have turned out just as you are – and in my experience with the Jesuits, they’d encourage the discover of your authentic self & not be disappointed you turned out to be someone who doesn’t cotton to faith. I must say, their (and my) God is so much bigger, wiser & more mysterious (and in my eyes, miraculous) than anyone else’s God I’ve “encountered.” You know what I mean right? I didn’t have some mystic vision, but I saw it in the way they talked about the likeliest ways an omniscient God would probably be (they never claimed to know what God was, but their observation on it’s likely nature came from following the idea of what “we” say God is & applying reason, logic & common sense to hazard a pretty good guess on certain things – and an infinite being is likely not a petulant hall monitor who exists to exert petty punishments.

        Most people get responses you’re probably right in guessing they’d give you. To me, that behavior is just tired & evidence of a lack of engagement or vitality in their supposed faith if all they’re willing to offer is a brick wall of non-answers & even use it as punishment (write it 100 times!). If something is solid, why would you fear testing it with other people & wouldn’t you want to know if something you believe doesn’t hold up to closer scrutiny? If you’re on your own, you can do it yourself via critical thinking (another thing the Jesuits impressed on me). Which leads me to say yes, I am and will be until I’m underground, willing & able to learn new things or be open to a change of mind. It’s the only way to really stay vital I think.

        I see nothing wrong with interjecting logic or applying the scientific method to things that are more… intangible & irrational by nature. I say, why not? Where’s the harm? People used to be more civil, they recognized that people disagree & it ain’t no sin or cause for consternation. Then we had the internet… Wait, I feel bad saying that as I think the internet is more awesome than not but it also has that effect of fostering a comfortableness in people with being a d!ck to other people who made the mistake of not thinking exactly like you! That’s just lack of important social manners.

        Wish I could pm you, damn. LIke you say, the only way to talk on this system involves sharing it with the world.

      • JuliePurple

        My response got deleted… basically, I was saying, yeah, right on!
        About the internet… I read something lately that made me smile. It said something to the effect that young people should have respect for us in the older generation, because we got educated without Google or the Internet. :-)

      • YaraGreyjoy

        You might be pleasantly surprised by whatever they’re going to call my generation & those that come after when it comes to listening to our elder generations, supposedly we’re on track to emulate the WWII generation more than any other in recent memory which is probably good, very civic minded & pragmatic & all that…

        Christ, I can remember well not using the internet really as a “thing” even into my college years as an educational tool – it was still too new and I guess everyone stuck with what they knew – and I’m actually quite grateful for it. Bloody Hell, I remember typing (on a typewriter) my bibliographies & citations which had to all conform with the 2 main style books… even when I was in college no one had quite figured out the correct format for citing an internet resource so we either just didn’t cite it or came up with something that looked decent enough. I rarely used, if ever, internet sources & I remember my classmates doing the same… the internet was just not as reliable as a source then. Wikipedia is quite a useful thing but it’s still not kosher as a reference for the most part, in my opinion. Anyone can write whatever in it and I’ve definitely read some uninformed BS or someone hijacks a topic to go off on a rant with their propaganda/ideology with certain topics to ever trust it as a primary source (unless I went through all their primary citations & made sure they were verified & if I’m going to that, I might as well just get the damned books at the library or whatever – I wonder if younger kids know the difference.

        To you and I, the internet is fun but we both know it’s also full of crazy – sometimes it’s elaborate crazy that to a naive reader can have the appearance of cogency by simply because there is a lot of it, not to mention any point of view or theory at this point (no matter how plain wrong it is) will have more than one person espousing it giving it a perceived legitimacy by their consensus that “this is so.” Scary. We, I think, are far less likely to believe what we read outright & require quite a lot of back up to big assertions, etc… the younger generations… I wonder. I know they know there’s a lot of nonsense out there but I wonder if they are still more trusting than they should be, more trusting than you or I would be.

        Apparently I’m part of the last generation (and so are my 2 siblings – all born in this little 3 year window they’ve irritatingly named “the MTV Generation” for some reason – seriously you guys with the names, stop. I prefer the more boring name they also use for us: Generation X/Y cusps – apparently we belong to and have traits of both & that makes us very fun to observe they say) The big deal is we are the last that has “mature” or significant memories of living for an extended period of our formative years through the Cold War (it ended in 89, I was 10, my youngest brother, 7) AND also we experienced the birth of the Internet in said formative years also (that was in my 14th year)….

        I’ve read more than once that “we” as a generation are being “closely watched” (LOL, yeah, sure) because of the phenomenon that is us… I know, why would you even, and WTF? And most of all who are these ominous watchers? I call total BS on the “watching.” If anyone is it’s probably just Google Analytics tracking our collective shopping habits.

        I’m off to check FB, see if you got my message. See you there :)

      • JuliePurple

        Recently I read a list of “skills your great-grandparents had that you don’t”, and two of the ten things listed are things that I do regularly: use a fountain pen (hell, I can cut and use a goose quill as a pen, come to think of it!) and mend clothing. I sew and mend often. I could sew by hand ever since I was a kid (age 8 or younger), and Mom taught me to use a sewing machine when I was 14. There was something else on the list that I still do, but I can’t recall just now what it was.
        I graduated from college in 1974. I learned to type in high school, and once in a while, even got to use one of the new-fangled *electric* typewriters!! Woohoo! I can milk a cow, too. Not very fast, but I can do it. :-)
        I just checked facebook, and didn’t see a message from you… try looking for Julie Hagan Bloch.
        “Watchers”… honestly, don’t they have anything better to do? I trust I’m too boring to merit much of a watch, actually.
        MTV, X, X/Y generations… I’m from the hippie generation (I lived in a commune for a couple of years, even!) Heh. I even live sort of close to Woodstock, though I didn’t go. I almost did, but have always preferred classical music, so decided that despite the coolness of the event, it wouldn’t be worth it for me.
        We got our first computer in 1997, I think. Woohoo!
        Believe what I read on the internet? Nah, I’ve read too much in the newspapers and in magazines to believe what I read unless I have corroborating evidence from sources I trust.
        Today’s my husband’s birthday, and soon we’re having cake, so I need to dash off…

  • George

    Jeremiah 7:16-19
    16 “So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the Lord. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

  • George

    Why do you doubt that your faith is strong enough for your prayer to be heard by Jesus? Faith in Jesus will get you in Heaven due to His sacrifice, but YOU need to have a faith that is strong enough. Calling on others faith to save you is like admitting you are not sure that your faith is strong enough, aren’t you generating doubt about your own faith?

    I’m not going to comment on the rest of the “traditions” mentioned because quite frankly they do not add anything to your salvation and is just an example of men building on top of what is already perfect.

  • Dawn Bivens

    Where in the bible is “purgatory”?

    • JuliePurple

      Just as a heads up, you could also Google the question. Admittedly, you’d get a range of answers, from pure fantasy to pretty good, but you could get a general feel for it, anyhow. A lot of times, you can tell from the feel of the website how reliable it is. You could also try checking a given website for information you already know, and see how it covers that. It’s not foolproof, but it’s better than nothing.
      And just by the way, I don’t think purgatory is in the bible. I guess the Catholics had to make up something for the “almost good enough” people, since they don’t believe in reincarnation for working things out. :-)

    • George

      The belief in purgatory is based on a combination of verses in the book of Maccabees where it is written that people prayed for the soldiers that had died in sin, and some further analysis done by others based on that and more. In addition, Thomas Aquinas, a man who applied to catholicism the pagan aristotelian philosophy embodied in the concept of the natural law, also argued the existence of purgatory and much more. Thomas very well could have been satan incarnate, or possessed by evil. Thanks to Thomas Aquinas the RCC has been forever marked with many false revelations/conclusions that he argued by taking the place of God with the natural law.
      Thanks to the false doctrine of purgatory, we also had indulgences which later caused the split up of the churches during the reformation. You will know them by their fruit, and the splitting of the church was the fruit of the belief in purgatory.

      • JuliePurple

        George, there’s no need to characterize anyone as “satan incarnate” or “possessed by evil”; it’s all just ordinary humans having a difference of opinion. Just because they’re from centuries ago and famous doesn’t make them special. Think of it this way. You disagree with a lot of the other postings on this very website. Who among those would you say were “satan incarnate” or “possessed by evil”? Wouldn’t you just say they just have a different opinion?
        The reason there are so many different opinions is because the provable data is inconclusive. Which is to say, there’s really no way to know for sure. It’s *all* anybody’s best guess.
        Think of today’s reporting of speeches and events. Even with technology to record exactly what happened, there is *still* a variety of interpretations given to what might be called important events. Not to mention, there are people who deliberately distort information for their own agendas. How much more variety (and deliberate distortion, more than likely) must there be when the only evidence is from individuals’ memories? And reinterpretation over time and via different languages play a part, as well. And again, just because someone is famous or holds some special post doesn’t make them any more than human: i.e., subject to mistaken conclusions. What I’m saying is, it’s really pretty much all speculation and, in a lot of cases, wishful thinking. Nobody *really* knows.

      • George

        I usually do not go as far as thinking that someone is possessed by evil. However, in Thomas’ case, he has had a major impact on the RCC. His works are well thought out and his Summa writings were literally used side-by-side to the Bible during the Council of Trent. Pope Leo XIII stated that “this is the greatest glory of Thomas, altogether his own and shared with no other Catholic Doctor, that the Fathers of Trent, in order to proceed in an orderly fashion during the conclave, desired to have opened upon the altar together with the Scriptures and the decrees of the Supreme Pontiffs, the Summa of St. Thomas Aquinas whence they could draw counsel, reasons and answers.” The best lies are chockfull of truth, and the best liar is satan. So the combination of this last thing and the impact his works has had and the consequences of the work on the RCC make me suspicious of him.

        Satan wants us to hate God. God grants humans relief from some of his rules when He knows we cannot meet them and more harm than good will come from us trying to do this due to our sin nature. So He picks the lesser evil out of love for us. Thomas’ works calling on the natural law sometimes eliminate the relief that God has granted, and in doing so risk humans hating God due to the difficulty of meeting HIs rules. If God grants relief, He knows why He does it, and for anyone else to go and say that such relief is not available is to push humans harder than God Himself as found wise to do.

      • JuliePurple

        George, I’m not defending any point of view, not Thomas’, that of the church, nor of anyone else. When I said data is inconclusive, I meant it was inconclusive for everybody. It’s no wonder there is dissent within religious organizations. They are trying to codify something that is too amorphous for codification.
        And why on earth would you think *any* of them have the right to tell consenting adults what to do between themselves? And it’s not Thomas’ fault that later people used his writings in whatever way they did. Also, times change. Slavery used to be condoned. Now we see it as abhorrent, and rightly so. As the human species matures, we learn better ways of behaving. The biblical model is in many ways obsolete. Who, these days, believes that a man who is already married, must marry his brother’s widow? That’s just one example.
        The whole problem is people thinking that some authority has the corner on what is proper behaviour. We need to obey the laws of our respective countries or face the consequences, but as for the rest, it’s our best guess. So many religions in the world, so many have mutually exclusive rules. No one way is right.
        Oh, and “satan”? Really? Don’t you mean the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy? Please. Just because it’s a religious (or un-religious, if you will) icon doesn’t make it any less a fairy tale. ;-)

      • George

        I don’t think things are as hopeless as you state. Some things are established very well. But when people start trying to count how many hairs are on an angel’s behind, that is when all the arguments begin.
        If you believe in Jesus, then you also know He cast out demons and was tempted by Satan. Believing that Satan is an imaginary bad guy is very dangerous for you.

      • George

        I don’t think things are as hopeless as you state. Some things are established very well. But when people start trying to count how many hairs are on an angel’s behind, that is when all the arguments begin.
        If you believe in Jesus, then you also know He cast out demons and was tempted by Satan. Believing that Satan is an imaginary bad guy is very dangerous for you.

      • JuliePurple

        ?? Hopeless? I don’t think it’s at all hopeless. I think it’s a very *good* thing if more people would use their own common sense instead of following blindly what other people decide. There’s a very good reason why the comparisons with sheep and shepherds are used. Even a good shepherd only cares for the sheep because they are his/her source of livlihood. Why does he keep sheep? So they can be fleeced and butchered.
        I believe that the person of Jesus probably existed, but the myths about him? Not so much.
        Why on earth would you think it’s a bad idea to believe that “Satan” is imaginary? Don’t you think that humans have enough trouble managing their own ethical difficulties without adding some sort of boogeyman into the mix? It’s too easy to blame an outside influence, when really people just need to take responsibility for their own shortcomings and deal with that as a reality.

      • George

        I understand your point of view now. However, my arguments and comments are from the point of view of a believer in Jesus Son of Man and divine, God, Holy spirit, resurrection, miracles, gospels, Satan, etc… You do not believe in any of that, so clearly your point of view is that of an unbeliever.
        If you are correct, then all my worries are for nothing and when I die the chemistry in my brain will cease to operate and so will I. If I am correct, you are going to Hell when you die, unless you become a believer in Jesus and your faith in Him allows you to go to Heaven.

      • JuliePurple

        You misunderstand me. I said earlier, to Joao, that I am agnostic, not atheist. This means I am open to the possibility of a deity. However, my firm belief is that a being capable of creating an entire universe would not be something that a human, at least at this stage in our evolution, would be able to understand. The idea of belief in an entity such as you describe, with dire consequences for unbelief, especially given that in your set of beliefs, “faith” is a gift of the aforementioned entity, is just too ludicrous to accept. It is the leftover debris of a primitive mind set that accepted all unexplained things as acts of some deity who must be praised and placated. Really. The creator of a universe being so insecure as to require praise from humans? Ridiculous.
        What if there is a god, and it is simply Nature, but with consciousness and will? Then the laws of physics and so forth *are* the laws of “god”, and the way to understand them is to pay attention to what we usually call reality.
        It could be that “mystical” experiences are the result of a person’s having developed certain types of brain chemistry. Why not? We know that certain medicines and certain illnesses cause hallucinations. Why not, then, that certain sublime states are also due to brain chemistry? If one practices, for example, yogic meditation, for a long enough time, perhaps that is like exercising a muscle to a greater strength, and feats of understanding or experience that were impossible then become possible, due to having developed certain chemicals in the physical system. We know that emotional states cause changes in body chemistry, after all. Anger raises blood pressure, and peace calms it, for example.
        What if, after our death, our consciousness does merge with that great all encompassing consciousness of Nature?
        These are all just guesses, of course. Just as all religion is composed of guesses. Because there is no proof for any of it.

      • George

        Faith is not a gift. Faith comes from seeking the truth. The Bereans listened to what St. Paul preached, and then they went and searched the scriptures to test his teachings. When they realized that what he was telling them met scriptural tests, they believed. They were seeking the truth and because of that when they saw it they believed.
        Being agnostic or atheist may mean something to humans, but not to Jesus, He will send you to the same place no matter which one of the two you pick; Hell is that place. The same outcome will result from believing in all these other things you mention too.
        The creator doesn’t need our praise. We need to show Him some respect so He lets us into His house. Would you let people into your house if they are disrespectful to you or behave in ways offensive to you? Well, neither does He. Makes sense to me.
        I am not aware of any other religion that has a person like Jesus. Some people may say that His miracles are just a myth, that His resurrection is a myth, ascension to Heaven, etc… Well, the facts are that 11 out of the 12 apostles were imprisoned and killed because they dedicated their life to teaching Jesus’ gospel. John was left to take care of Mary and maybe that is why he lived longer. A lot of people lie, but I don’t know any that would lie, then dedicate their lives to preaching that lie, then be persecuted and imprisoned, and finally tortured and killed because of the lie. Any normal liar would recant and save his life. The more likely scenario is that what they said they saw is true and that is why they went all the way to martyrdom faithfully preaching the truth.
        I hope you change your mind. God wants everyone in Heaven, but He doesn’t want anyone who will not show the proper respect in His house.

      • JuliePurple

        Please don’t expect me to take as evidence things that are not provable. None of the stories about “Saint” Paul or that ilk are provable. And again, just because someone dies for a belief does not mean that the beiief was justified. It only means that they thought it was.
        You’re not aware… okay, so check out Dionysus and Osiris. Their myths are similar to Jesus’.
        I don’t say that those people lied. Just that they were mistaken.
        It amazes me how humans can think they have any idea of what “god” wants. My best guess, at this stage in my investigations, is that “god” is, in fact, Nature. Whether or not that Nature has a consciousness is up to question. I’d like to think so, but I don’t really know.
        One of the very sad things about a lot of religions is that they make threats against people who disagree with them. The whole hell myth is just such a threat. “Believe, or you’ll go to hell for eternity!” Not provable. Rather pathetic, really.

      • George

        There are historical accounts independent of the Bible that document how the apostles died. Search for them. How many of Osiris and Dionysus apostles do we have documented that died martyrs testifying to their story of resurrection, etc…?
        If all the apostles were mistaken, then they must have all hallucinated about exactly the same things simultaneously. How can all these people be mistaken in the same way at the same time watching the same thing, and then be deluded into dying like they did preaching all these events happened?
        It seems you have a standard for evidence that exceeds anything possible from antiquity. I mean, you are not going to find Jesus, or any other figures from the ancient past on YouTube. By this standard, almost all of ancient history never happened.

      • JuliePurple

        George, first of all, I want to thank you for logical discourse. You respond to the actual points made instead of going off into la la land. This is refreshing. So thank you for that.
        Now, back to the regularly scheduled comments.. :-)
        Yes indeed, Christian legend does have the apostles believing and dying as you said. But how much of it is people adjusting the backstory to coincide with what they would like to have had happen? How much of that is just legend to begin with? Nobody can say with certainty.
        My standard for evidence is the same standard used for other events in antiquity: reigns of ancient rulers or other persons, existence of cities, you name it. Religions do not get special treatment. There is reliable evidence for the existence of many ancient cities, persons, certain events, customs, and so forth. There is also reliable evidence that some ancient religious practices and beliefs existed, but not that they were based in fact. For example, the Mithras religion had a remarkable number of similarities with Christianity. But of course it didn’t have proof for the validity of any of its claims of miraculous events, either.

      • George

        By the way, I used to be an agnostic too. But God kept calling me and finally I looked into it. And the more I looked into it, the more I believed it. He is calling you too, that is why you are hovering in this forum. So look into the truth.
        As you can tell from my comments, my truth seeking has led me to places that are not always aligned with RCC teachings. I pray to God that He shows me if I’m wrong. I pray to Him all the time for wisdom as I look into the truth. That is all you can do. But the more you look into, the more your faith in Him grows. It may not translate into more faith in your church. But Jesus is the judge, not anyone else.

      • JuliePurple

        “Hovering”?? :-) Tell you what. The reason I comment here is because I went to a Catholic school, and found later that a lot of facts had been distorted or ignored. I got a lot of nonsense answers to heartfelt questions, and got tired of it. So I did my own investigations. And I agree that the more you look into things, the more the faith grows, but it’s not faith in what you think. It’s faith in objective inquiry and rational thought, which is not to be found in fairy tales.

      • George

        The RCC sure doesn’t score a lot of points in the answers department. I also went to catholic school. They either didn’t know the answer, or didn’t feel the person had a right ask for a full answer. Everyone sins, including the clergy and the institutional church. They do not stand in the place of God, so don’t judge God by what they say and do, and also do not hate the people in the church that are wrong, they are sinners like everyone else.

      • JuliePurple

        I certainly do not hate god (who may or may not exist:-)); how can I do anything but love whatever or whoever created such a marvelous universe? The institutions claiming to speak for such an entity, however, are an entirely different story. I don’t hate them, nor their constituents, but rather sincerely wish they would quit with the lies and evasions and make believe and recognize the awesomeness of things as they really are. The universe is wonderful beyond description; it doesn’t *need* fairy tales about it!
        I don’t think “god” has to do anything to tarnish the RCC’s image; it’s done it to itself by its own actions. It was already tarnished; it’s just that now the dirt is coming into the public view.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Would all your merging encompassing consciousness of nature be likewise just classed as myths. God says in His Word, that if people don,t want to know the truth He will blind their eyes more and more away from the knowledge of truth

      • JuliePurple

        You might be interested in looking up the meaning of the word “if”.
        Nature is a myth, eh? LOL!

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Bill Clinton said, what is the meaning of the word, IS!

      • JuliePurple

        Dwayne, you’re really working hard to dredge up responses, aren’t you? Your comment makes no sense, and we’ve been over this. Please re-read previous postings.

      • Pastor Dwayne

        Satan has a good strong hold on you JULIE P

      • Pastor Dwayne

        George, you have to remember Julie is using RATIONAL thought!!
        The intelligent learners of the world are always learning , but never coming to the knowledge of the truth!!

      • al

        Sorry JuliePurple your brainwashed by RCC. I know i was in it for 35years and the Lord took me out and saved me for all eternity!! Get out while there is still time and will be praying for you and God Bless

      • JuliePurple

        Oh, Al, you made me laugh! Brainwashed by RCC? (*snort!*) If you only knew! They have just as much bullpooky in their teachings as anyone else! Well, maybe not as much as those who believe the bible is factual, but still, a lot. When I wrote, above, that “nobody really knows”, I meant that literally. That means the RCC is included. And it includes me (how is it even possible for a human to grasp the complexities of universe creation and so forth?), and … wait for it… YOU! And here’s a little hint: if you want to present a believable point of view, you must do it using data that is respected by the one you are trying to convince. Needless to say, using the bible as a source will not impress me with anything other than that you are too gullible.
        I take your “praying for you” as a general indication of good wishes. Thank you. That’s sweet. I wish you well, also.

      • ray

        Evangelical Protestants – The biggest cult are the one who falsely worship God, from their infallible celebrity pastors – prosperity gospel ministers, false prophets / end timers, pro-is*raHELL preachers, they are the ones who cannot give any biblical reference to their false and flip-flopping dogmas such as: christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation and endless more… LOL.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that a Catholic can question, argue and debate with them on scriptures.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that the Catholics have the original Scriptures? How the authority of the Church, Pope’s & Councils were the one who codified, compiled and canonized the scriptures.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept the authority of the Church, Pope & Councils made the decision which books are Divinely inspired and not Divinely inspired.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it was Pope Damasus in the 4th Century that commissioned St. Jerome in the 4th Century to translate the Scriptures from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to Latin to produce the original bible – The Latin Vulgate.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it is their protestant beliefs has led to the many perverted bibles that is in circulation right now: Schonfield bible, Geneva bible, Mormon bible, NIV, New World translation, Clear Word bible, Moffat bible, Godspeed bible, Lamsa bible, King James vers., New King James vers. etc

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that it is protestantism (Christian pluralism) that led to the fragmentations and divisions in our society, we have all seen this weakened the whole of Western Europe and the world, this opened the door for the separation of church and state – modernism – secularism – atheism – & onward to satanism.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept the that the Union Theological Seminary was funded by the Rockefellers to undermine Christianity under the guise of “Modernism”, “Higher Criticism” this was headed by Charles Briggs and Harry Emerson Fosdick who doubted all bible passages that refers to the Divinity of Christ-Virgin Birth, Christ’s death as atonement for sins, 2nd Coming.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that the history of protestantism is part of a vast conspiracy by the banking cartel/money changer (Rothschild family) to fragment and weaken the Catholic Church by financing crypto-’j'e*’w* Adam Weishaupt (illuminism) by subverting the Jesuit Order in the 15th Century that led to the revolution inside the church posing as reformation which in fact it should be called deformation. This became a springboard for a lot of subversive groups to infiltrate (most esp freemasonry which was also financed by the Rothschilds) as a full covert war against the Catholic Church.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that all the anti-catholic attacks, diatribe & mockery is echoed from the masonic lodges that hates all Catholic – Relics, Tradition, Scripture, Saints, Jesus Christ and His Mother, The Blessed Virgin Mary, The Holy Mass (Eucharist), Sacraments, etc.

        It is a fact that protestants cannot accept that protestantism is on its last legs, they are called evangelicals (fundamentalism), they are the biggest dupes & cheerleaders for the establishment of a masonic world government-’i's*’r*’a*’H'E’L'L, pastored by the likes of John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Jack Van Impe, Chuck Misler, Kenneth Copeland, Mike Evans, Hal Lindsey, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Tim LaHaye, Paul Crouch, Ed McAteer, Jim Baker, Franklin Graham, James Dobson and Jimmy Swaggart under the false doctrine of christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’.

        * I hope you will reason better than just sarcastically saying that CatholicS and do not understand things, this has been examined and observed for many years, and I don’t think shopping for 40,000 denominations is what Christ has intended for mankind, that is what protestantism has brought to this world – abject failure to the faith. Christ only established One, Holy and Apostolic Church and that is the Catholic Church.?

      • JuliePurple

        Well, Ray, it’s not sarcasm. It’s observation. And trust me, I’m not in the least into shopping for another conglomerate to feed my head with more fabrications. Anyone who claims to know what really happened in the life of Mary, Jesus and their associates is simply making things up. There is no reliable documentation about any of it, except that there is independent verification of the crucifixion. There are also notes about political disturbances attributed to a “Jeshua”, and similar names (it apparently was not an uncommon name at the time). NONE of the miracles are verified by independent contemporary witnesses. Many significant parts of the Jesus legend are also found in the stories of earlier (and some later) supposed deities as well. NONE of it provable. None of it.

        So as I said earlier, nobody really knows.
        And just so we’re clear, I don’t think that any of the rest of them (neither Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, and so on) have a handle on it, either.

      • ray

        Make things up? Before the bible was codified and canonized by the Catholic Church, it was all based on oral and written traditions with a capital “T” passed down by the Early Church Fathers such as: Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Tertullian, Clement etc., they were all students of the Apostles of Jesus, their doctrines and letters were preserved until today. This has even cost them their lives – Martyrdom, they did not deny the Divinity of Christ despite costing them their lives, even secular history books such as encylopedias, etc attest to this. Now, since the last 60 years there is an attempt to deny and undermine this as part of their war (subversion) on the church, thank God for the internet.

      • JuliePurple

        Just because someone dies for a belief does not mean that the belief was true. It only means they thought it was.
        And Ray, capitalize anything you like, that doesn’t make it true. Lots of cultures have traditions. Take India, for example. There are ancient traditions about many gods, and these have been commented upon by many respected holy people, and such are mentioned in encyclopedias. I don’t suppose you think they are true, hm? You have no more actual proof than they do.

      • ray

        So give me a documented proof on how the world and nature that you worship was created by the secular world, darwinists and communists? They are all made up theories (big bang) to believe their false constructs such as communism, nazism, fascism, capitalism, feminism and all the fake paradigms that you hear right now. So how come as you mentioned in your comment that you believe in a deity? Isn’t that faith? Where did that come from? I thought you are a hard evidence / record person?

      • JuliePurple

        Wow, I’d like to know where you got the idea that I believe in a deity. And where did you get the idea that I worship the world and nature?

      • ray

        You said: “This means I am open to the possibility of a deity. ” if I have misquoted you then I stand corrected, I assume that you are an aetheist or a naturalist or probably you believe that everything is a means to an end, but my question again to you is give me a documented proof or a blueprint on how life was created, the world, virtue, morals, faith etc, were did this came from? Why does man have a superior intelligence compared to animals and plants? Why is it that every culture or religion believes that everything started on spirituality or The Spirit of God created the world? What do you believe anyway, since you said that Jesus and Mary was just a legend? Where is your proof that they are a legend? Does that mean that the Roman Empire or Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth was also a myth? Go to the Vatican Library and you can find all records on how the early church started on how they have dealt with persecution etc. I would rather believe this than the indoctrination by the zio-communist mainstream media controlled by elites that want to achieve a aetheistic-satanic society.

      • JuliePurple

        Ray, “open to the possibility” is in no way the same as belief. I am not an atheist; I am agnostic, which means, literally, “not knowing”; in my case, I would like for there to be a loving deity, but so far there is insufficient evidence to prove that there is. Simply put, I don’t know how it all works. None of the religions I have encountered have been able to give verifiable evidence that they do, either.
        So far, science has the best handle on it all, and because science is something that is able to learn as new information becomes available, I find that more trustworthy than something that claims to know even when evidence to the contrary is presented.
        Reliable evidence for the existence of cities and for the Roman empire is available. For specific individuals, the evidence is spotty, unless objective, trustworthy contemporary references are available. For example, we know Julius Caesar existed because not only did he produce writings of his own, but many, many references were made to him by his contemporaries.
        Any references to Mary were made after the death of anyone who would have known her personally. And those references are all prejudiced: that is to say, they had a stake in whether the story was believed or not. Think of modern political statements. Yes, they are often written down, but the writers have a certain interest in having their stories believed.
        The Vatical Library is totally irrelevant. The early church started well after the deaths of the main characters they claim to have existed. Persecution is also irrelevant. In different times and countries, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs have been persecuted too. That only means that certain other people didn’t like them.
        And if you actually think about it, there are more options than either your way or “mainstream media”. Wow, satanic, eh? Heh. That’s pretty funny. You forgot to add Nazis and facists and… let’s see… hmm… Genghis Kahn, Vlad Tepes…

      • ray

        Test…. Test

      • ray

        Where is the Catholic Doctrine of The Holy Trinity and Incarnation in the Bible? How come protestants believe this? Are they also protesting on this? The reason for the breakup is not purgatory but enemy subversion by the sponsorship of the (*’j*’e'*w*;i*’;s”*h** banking cartel) Rothschilds, Goldsmiths, Solomon Brothers, Oppenheimers etc. as a covert war against the papacy and the church, it is rooted from the Zohar when the Rothschilds adopted the Sabbatean Frankists movement in the 15th Cent, as I mentioned, Adam Weishaupt (crypto-*j’e'w’), by infiltrating the Jesuit order becoming a high ranking bishop to fragment the church, this is how Protestantism was born. Because historically the Church expelled, deported, imprisoned, executed money changers, usurers bec., they are the cause of all the bankruptcy of European (Christian) kingdom throughout history, under their “Gold Standard scheme”, the church through its monarchs had always had to impose “pogroms”, “jubilee” – the forgiveness of debt, it was the church (both state & govt) that protected all nations until 1789 when the masons successfully overthrew the King of France that became the model for future controlled revolutions, this was the springboard for the separation of church and state, free reign for masons, that is why communism, nazism, fascism, atheism, secularism, globalism, capitalism, feminism, abortion, same sex marriage are an easy sell to society. They were also successful on establish Mormons, SDA & Jehovah’s witness, on the basis of sola scripture, good job ML.

        Purgatory – The name does not make the place; the place must exist first, then we give it a name. We call this place “purgatory” because it means “a cleansing place.” Therein souls are purged from the small stains of sin, which prevent their immediate entrance into Heaven.

        In the Old Testament The first mention of Purgatory in the Bible is in 2 Maccabees 12:46: “Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.”

        Some people do not accept Maccabees as book of the Bible. This is unfortunate since it is that their Bibles have been edited and are missing books. (Find out Why Catholic Bibles Are Different) Even if a person does not accept the book of Maccabees, it at least has historical value for we can learn what the pre-Christian community believed.

        In Chapter 12 of Second Maccabees we read Scriptural proof for Purgatory and evidence that the Jews had sacrifices offered for those of their brothers who had lost their lives in battle. That the Jews prayed for the dead shows that they believed in a place where they could be helped (which we now call purgatory) and
        that the prayers of their living brothers and sisters could help them in that place. This is closely related to the Catholic doctrine of the communion of saints.

        During the Reformation in the 15th century, when Martin Luther was deciding to remove books from the Bible, these words in the book of Maccabees had so clearly favored Catholic teaching, that the whole book was removed from the Protestant Bible. Unfortunately for Protestants, even if they feel that the book was not inspired, it still tells us of the practice of God’s chosen people.

        In the New Testament In Matthew 5:26 and Luke 12:59
        Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation. “Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid in Heaven and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

        Matthew 12:32 says, “Andwhoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Here Jesus speaks of sin against the Holy Spirit. The implication is that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. We know that in Hell there is no liberation and in
        Heaven nothing imperfect can enter it as we see in the next part. Sin is not forgiven when a soul reaches its final destination because in heaven there is no need for forgiveness of sin and in hell the choice to go there is already made.

        Revelation 21:27: “…but nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who does abominable things or tells lies.” The place that is to be entered (the place to which this passage refers) is heaven (read the text around it for context).

        The Bible clearly implies a place for an intermediate state of purification after we die in the many passages which tell that God will reward or punish according to a person’s life.

        What if purgatory really doesn’t exist?

        Ponder the following example. Imagine a Christian man, justified by the Lord, loses his temper and yells at his next door neighbors for letting their dog dig a hole in his yard. We can see that the man treated his neighbors rudely, albeit the neighbor’s behavior was also reprehensible.His actions would be considered a light sin (called venial sins by the Catholic Church). It’s not of the same moral weight as theft or murder, but it’s still a sin.

        After shouting at the neighbors, with all the anger and stress in his body the man walks into his house, has a heart attack, and dies having just committed a small sin in the final moments of his life. Remember, this man is Christian and justified by the Lord, yet has committed a sin. Does he go to heaven or does he go to hell? Are all sins created equal? No, all sins are not equal and even justified men of the Lord can make mistakes and sin.

        If purgatory didn’t exist, the man would go to hell for his small sin.
        God’s mercy is so great and our God is a just God that it seems
        unfathomable that he would condemn a justified man to hell for a small, yet unrepented sin. The man’s soul is dirty. His actions have defiled his soul, but not the point where he has cut himself off from God. Only mortal sins cut off a person from God’s grace. So, the man, having been justified by the Lord, is destined for heaven, yet his soul is defiled by his sin (Matthew 12:36, 15:18).
        His soul is in need of cleansing because nothing defiled can enter
        heaven. This is the purpose of purgatory. Out of mercy and love God sends the man through purgatory on his way to heaven so that his soul can be purified to be able to join God in heaven.

        Remember, purgatory is not a second chance for conversion; the man is already justified. If there is no place of intermediate state of purification, the man would be damned to hell! Who would be saved? Those who teach against purgatory teach an unreasonable doctrine. Will Catholics go to heaven?

        So, why do protestants reject a teaching so full of consolation? My guess is that they want to believe that the merits of Christ applied to the sinner who trusts in Him, will remove all sin past, present, and future abdicating all responsibility for sin after justification. Yet this is also unreasonable. Only Jesus’ death on the cross makes us worthy before God the Father. We cannot stand before him on our own merits. We need Jesus Christ. Yet we also have personal responsibility in our justification before the Lord.

        Luke 12:48: Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

        If we accept Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, confess him as Lord, yet commit bad actions, God judges accordingly.

        Matthew 12:37: By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

        Our acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not abdicate our responsibility live the Gospel. Salvation is not assured. Salvation is not by faith alone for the Bible says that we will be held accountable by our words and that much will be entrusted to us! Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is by faith alone. This teaching is un-Scriptural. Rather the Scriptures say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26).

        While Jesus can be the only acceptable sacrifice to God for our sins, it doesn’t give us a license to sin. Nor does justification by the Lord preserve us from sin. Even a justified man can commit a sin. Therefore, even though Christ’s blood on the cross makes us right before God, God still requires much from us in return. He requires us to die to ourselves each day and to choose him in everything we do. It simply doesn’t fit with God’s justice for a person to be off the hook simply because at some point in the past they became justified. We have a duty to God to obey him for if we do not obey God we will be punished according to his justice. Purgatory is part of God’s justice.

      • George

        I’m ignoring the comments regarding the jews. History has shown that the jews have suffered great injustice at the hands of Christians for centuries.
        When Protestants splintered they took with them some of the false doctrines too.
        On purgatory:
        In Heaven there is a hierarchy, and while we get into Heaven by our Faith in Christ and by the merit of his sacrifice, we will also be ranked when we get there, and that is when our works will be measured(burned or not). I find that purgatory is an unnecessary innovation. We already knew there is a hierarchy in Heaven. With true faith in Christ, even though we fall and sin, if we are repentant in our hearts, then God looks at that to decide our fate in Heaven. Someone that claims faith in Christ, but is unrepentant in his heart does not really have faith and God sees that. The whole faith vs. works is an academic debate; it is impossible to have faith in Christ and no works.
        In your example of the man who dies with a venial sin, the hardness of his heart will be judged. This whole venial vs. mortal sin business is quite man made. Sin is sin, and some sin requires a harder heart than others.

      • YaraGreyjoy

        Upvoted for smacking down the hate speech against Jews, thank you George – no matter our different religions, we must all stand together against the lies of anti-semites. Thank you for standing up for that.

    • ray

      WHERE ARE THESE FALSE PROTESTANT – EVANGELICAL DOGMAS IN THE BIBLE?
      Christian-’z'*i’*o’*n’*i’*s’*m’, rapture, dispensationalism, universalism, sola fide, sola scriptura, bible-believing, once saved always saved, Jesus and me only, Jesus only, instant salvation, pre-destination, irresistible grace, Jesus as my Lord and Personal savior, unitarianism, pre-tribulation, tribulation, post-tribulation, social gospel, prosperity gospel. – ARE THEY FOUND IN THE BIBLE? LOL!!! I think you should ask your televangelists where are these invented / made up doctrines came from?? SUCH HYPOCRISY…. SOLA SCRIPTURA IS AN ABJECT FAILURE = 40,000 DENOMINATIONS.

  • Bob Elliott

    “Pastor”Dwayne…The word for “brother” in the verse you site actually translates into “kinsman” more like cousin in our current english. You make references several time that you want the book, chapter and verse where the Bible references the Immaculate Conception. Show me the book, chapter and verse where the Bible references the Trinity? You obviously are adhering to the “solo scriptura” approach. Where we Catholics believe that Holy scripture as well as Sacred Tradition are important in teaching and learning the faith. So the current cannon of scripture was set around 384 AD. Actually in 367 AD, St. Athanasius came up with the list of 73 books for the Bible that he believed to be divinely inspired. This lis was approved by Pope Damasus I in 382 AD and formally approved by the Church Council of Rome in that same year. Later councils (Hippo 393 AD and Carthage 397 AD) ratified this list of 73 books. in 405 AD Pope Innocent I reaffirmed in letter to the Bishop of Toulouse. In 419 AD this list of 73 books was again reaffirmed by the the council of Carthage, which Pope Boniface agreed to. That you cannot dispute…So prior to a Catholic Saint, several Catholic Popes and a number of Catholic Councils, choosing and rarifying the books of the Holy Bible how was it taught? And yes there were originally 73 books in selected and radifyed. Martin Luther and the protestant reformation removed seven books…not as you like to represent that the Catholics added seven books. Fact… Martin Luther removed those seven books of the Old Testament that did not agree with his personal theology.

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