Father Dave welcomes Academy Award-nominated filmmaker Rian Johnson to discuss his latest movie “Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery,” whose fictional story takes place in a Catholic parish. Rian’s directing credits include “Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi,” “Looper,” “Poker Face,” episodes of “Breaking Bad,” and many more. The latest film in the “Knives Out” murder mystery series, “Wake Up Dead Man,” stars Daniel Craig as Detective Benoit Blanc who teams up with a priest (Josh O’Connor) to investigate a crime at the small-town church.
Rian discusses why he was drawn to themes of faith despite not being Catholic. “I grew up very evangelical Christian. It wasn’t just that our family went to church all the time; I was myself deeply Christian up through my early 20s. So part of it was me delving back into my history with faith,” he says. “Another big part of the inspiration for setting it specifically in the Catholic Church was that I reread all of G.K. Chesterton’s Father Brown mysteries. Those stories — besides just being super fun mysteries — are always investigating elements where the mystery story, the crime story, and the moral universe of Father Brown overlap. I also love that Father Brown is a great detective, not because he understands what’s perfect and holy, but because he understands what’s deeply human and flawed, and empathizes with it.”
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They discuss Rian’s research for the film, including crediting a Denver parish priest as a consultant. “I’m really close with my aunt and uncle who are devout Catholics in Denver. Father Scott is their priest, and they were kind enough to connect me,” he says. “I had dinner with him, and he invited five friends who were also priests and a couple of deacons. I got to sit down and have kind of an ‘Ask Me Anything,’ dinner with these five young American priests. We didn’t really talk theology; We talked more about what their lives are like.”
“I talked to them about their favorite depictions of priests in film, and [movies] that they feel get it really wrong or really right,” Rian continues. “Their answers really surprised me, and really ended up informing the movie and in [both] big, general, and very direct, specific ways.”
Father Dave says, “Certainly, it’s a fun mystery, but there is a deeper exploration and themes of fallible humanity. Everybody’s imperfect, including the priest characters, which I will admit, and I do almost every night on the show, [is true in real life]…Often we’ll see in Catholic parishes a collection of people who have their own story and their own reason for needing, if you will, this community or religion.”
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Rian responds, “The only reason that I felt the gumption to sort of write something set in this world is that, for me, it’s all personal. I really had to bring myself back to the time in my life when I was a Christian. Every single one of the suspects [in the movie] all have their own specific need…sometimes finding it in an unhealthy outlet, or sometimes finding it in a healthy place. Every single one of those is a fragment of my own personal experience with faith, and I think that’s really important when you’re dealing with a topic like this. I’m always pointing the finger back to myself in each one of them; no matter how flawed [they are], it’s a flaw that I have. I can plug into it and then start from a real place of empathy.”
They discuss feedback Rian has received following the film’s release. “I’ve gotten a lot of positivity from Catholics and also Christians of other denominations. I’ve also gotten positive feedback in the same way, from atheists and people who are outside of the church. That, for me, really exemplifies [the movie],” he says. “Benoit Blanc is very much like a hardcore atheist in the movie, and Father Jud, who he has to partner with, is genuinely called to the priesthood and wants to be a good priest. Those two have to work together and form a relationship, and it’s not like they convert one or the other by the end of it.”
