Father Dave welcomes back friend of the show and ethicist Dr. Charles Camosy to discuss the fight against a culture of death. Dr. Camosy teaches moral theology and bioethics at The Catholic University of America, and his latest book is called, “Living and Dying Well: A Catholic Plan for Resisting Physician-Assisted Killing.”
Following the murder of Charlie Kirk at a college campus event, Father Dave asks Dr. Camosy about the intersection of pro-life issues and gun violence. “You have long been in your career as a moral theologian giving voice to the voiceless, but also [combating] what Saint John Paul II called a ‘culture of death’ that we seem to live in,” Father Dave begins. “You’ve written a lot about abortion, about throwaway culture, and now about physician-assisted suicide. The culture of death is also violence with weapons and guns. Does it all fit together?”
Dr. Camosy responds, “One of the things that links them together is the unassailable, irreducible dignity of the human person. Human beings are not the kinds of things that can just be snuffed out when it serves our will.”
LISTEN: Dr. Charlie Camosy on Where the Pro-Life Movement Should Go Next
“Human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, and let’s let that sink in; We say it all the time. Let’s let it sink in [that we’re] temples of the Holy Spirit. We cannot snuff out this life just because it serves a particular goal of ours,” he continues. “That’s true whether it’s a political goal, an end-of-life goal, or a goal involving abortion. I would argue, when it comes to war and especially war that kills the innocent, this is a fundamental question that we have to reckon with.”
Turning to end-of-life issues, Father Dave and Dr. Camosy discuss recent Medical Aid in Dying laws in Canada and the United States. Father Dave says, “Let’s be devil’s advocate for a moment and say, I can understand why it shouldn’t be in my power as a human to snuff out the life of another human. I shouldn’t be able to decide that I want to snuff out a life growing inside my body. But if it’s my own life, why shouldn’t I have the choice to end that, or to ‘die with dignity’ to not burden my family or the state with many more months or years of having to care for me?”
Dr. Camosy notes that Father Dave is “pushing the right buttons” in questioning this issue, and responds by comparing it to other examples of suicide. “Some of the most moving videos and pictures I’ve seen on social media are of people who went on a bridge or a tall building to kill themselves, and people around them will literally wrap their bodies around them to stop them. There’s this one case where a heroic person took off his belt and wrapped it around the person to make sure that he couldn’t jump,” Dr. Camosy says. “Even on social media, [no one says] ‘That was so dumb, they were stopping that person’s autonomous decision to kill themselves.’ Of course not. The universal reaction is, ‘Thank God they were there to preserve the dignity of that person’s life, and the goodness of that person’s life. The assumption is that their life is good.”
RELATED: Keeping the Faith After Loss: Catholic Resources for Those Affected by Suicide
“For some reason, in these other contexts, it changes. We say, ‘Well, who are we to judge and this life may, in fact, not be worth living.’ This is one reason why disability rights communities, which I talk a lot about this in the book, are so against physician-assisted suicide,” Dr. Camosy continues. “It looks like people are saying, ‘Oh, that able-bodied, healthy person on the bridge. Let’s protect their life…but if it’s a disabled person, if it’s a sick person, if it’s a person who has lost their autonomy, who’s lost their ability to have enjoyable activities, a person that feels like they’re a burden on others — then we can sort of understand why you would want to kill yourself.’ It doesn’t take too long to figure out why disability rights groups say, wait a minute. What are you saying about lives like ours at the end of the day?”
Dr. Camosy shares the importance of community as we accompany those near death. “The dying process is not always good. I just lost my own father on July 31st and it was kind of surreal to go through that experience after just having written this book,” he says. “Jesus gathered his closest friends in the Garden of Gethsemane with him in his final hour, and he got [mad] at them, right? They didn’t stay up with him as he was going through it. He’s like, guys, come on, stay up with me and pray, and be prepared to pray that you don’t have to go through this too.”
“Everybody throughout our tradition is very focused on the communal aspect of [death.] We do this together; People need to live and die in communities of support. That’s the most beautiful thing about our tradition,” Dr. Camosy concludes.
