Reflecting on Pope Francis and His Papacy With John Allen, Jr.

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As we continue to mourn the loss of Pope Francis, Father Dave welcomes back John Allen, Jr. to reflect on the papacy. John is editor of Crux, an independent Catholic news service that aims to be an objective voice in Catholic media. He has written twelve books on the Vatican and Catholic affairs.

John has lived in Rome for many years, and he reflects on how the city reacts to these moments. “We call it the Eternal City; this city has seen everything multiple times before, including the death of popes,” he begins. “If you’re a faithful Catholic, this is a cataclysmic moment. You lose a central point of reference in your faith life. There is both excitement, but also the anxiety about what might come next. It is easy to feel like the world is spinning apart, but Rome calmly lumbers on.”

RELATED: Celebrating the Life and Legacy of Pope Francis

“I find it tremendously calming to know that we are in hands that have weathered storms much greater than this before,” he continues. “No one prepares for the death of a pope more ardently those people who have to actually execute the logistics of a transition, and they know exactly what to do.”

John reflects on Pope Francis’ final days. “We saw him in Saint Peter’s Square on Easter Sunday not merely giving the ‘Urbi et Orbi’ blessing to the city and the world — the traditional Easter Sunday benediction — but also hopping on the Popemobile, something he had not done since the 38-day hospitalization at Gemelli Hospital early in the year for double pneumonia,” John says. “We were all writing headlines for the Monday morning papers [about] the Pope’s triumphant comeback. …It turns out that it was his triumphant swan song.”

“So many of us think of him as the people’s pope; a pope [who emphasized] contact with people, especially ordinary folks, the forgotten and the marginalized of the world,” he adds. “The fact that he defied doctors orders on Easter Sunday in order to make himself present to those people. Obviously Pope Francis didn’t know it at the time, but if he had to script an exit scene, I’m not sure he could have written it any better.” 

John looks at back at Pope Francis’ legacy. “Francis was a sort of Frank Sinatra pope; he did it his way, from beginning to end,” he says. “Remember at the very beginning when he was presented on the central loggia of Saint Peter’s Square. Rather than first imparting the blessing to the crowd, he kneels and asks the crowd to bless him — something we had never seen before. Immediately after his election, he goes back to the clerical residence where he had been staying before the conclave to pack his own bag and pay his own bill.”

LISTEN: How Does the Church Elect a New Pope?

Pope Francis also made unique choices for his funeral and burial. “He has chosen not to be buried in the crypt of Saint Peter’s Basilica, like so many popes have been over the centuries. …Instead, he wanted to be buried in the Basilica of Saint Mary Major, because it houses that famous Marian icon ‘Salus Populi Romani’ — that is Maria, ‘Health of the Roman people.’” Pope Francis would visit this icon often, especially before and after any apostolic journey. 

“He wants [his tomb] to just say ‘Franciscus,’ and nothing more. His body is going to be presented to the faithful lying in state not on an elevated platform,” John adds. “He decided not to have the viewings in the Apostolic Palace for VIPs, but simply to go directly to Saint Peter’s Basilica so it can be exposed to ordinary people,” John adds. “This was a pope who proved himself, at times, quite indifferent to papal custom and tradition. That delighted many, and it consternated an equal amount of others. But in any event, it was a defining characteristic of his style, and even in death that remains.”

Stay tuned next week for part 2 of Father Dave’s conversation with John Allen, Jr., where they discuss the election of a new pope.

Father Dave, Brett, and Krista select portions of the radio show each week to be featured podcasts. Check out the radio blog for daily show notes for our updates about guests, links, and more!

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