On Pope Leo’s first international trip last year, he shared that the book “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence helped shape his spirituality. Father Dave welcomes Father Gregory Pine and Rebecca Dougherty as they dive into this work in the latest season of Ascension’s “Catholic Classics” podcast.
While Father Gregory has hosted previous seasons of the podcast, he hosts this new season with his sister and theology teacher, Rebecca. Father Dave asks, “Rebecca, you grew up with Father Gregory. Way back before he was Father Gregory, did he always have this really dry sense of humor? I’m trying to picture him without the beard and just as a goofy little kid.”
She responds, “He was always silly and funny. We’re two of four children, and we have another sister and brother. I realized that at some point that, with Father Gregory and our brother Matthew, movies were funnier when they quoted them. I’d go watch the movie and think, ‘oh it’s not actually as funny [as my brothers].’”
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In addition to sibling hijinks, the two share their theological insights on Brother Lawrence and “The Practice of the Presence of God.” Father Gregory begins, “He lived in the 17th century and was a Caramelite brother;, he didn’t receive ordination to the priesthood. In his first few years of religious life, he was really nervous about whether he was doing God’s will; whether he was going to heaven, and whether he was making his vocation something worthy.”
“Then Brother Lawrence found what, for him, was the secret that he really put into practice for the rest of his life, and that was just to recall himself to God’s holy presence and to seek to live in it,” Father Gregory continues. “You hear other people describe it as the habit of recollection or saying these little aspirational prayers throughout the course of the day, as a way by which to draw [yourself] to God.”
Rebecca describes the structure of the 20 episodes in the new season. “It’s a relatively short book, and so we read a little section and then provide commentary,” she says, and notes that the book is ideal for a busy reader. “The book is arranged in a series of conversations, letters, and little nuggets to meditate on each day. The commentary comes from the perspective of a Catholic priest and Catholic mom and wife, so we talk about applications [to life]. I find it to be very approachable and helpful.”
LISTEN: Trusting God Through Hardships With Brother Lawrence and Joni Eareckson Tada
They discuss one of Brother Lawrence’s maxims of loving God “in spirit and truth.” Father Gregory says, “[Brother Lawrence notes] that the human doing is really tapping into the divine doing. It’s about cultivating an awareness for how God is at work in our lives at the center, and how God — who’s begun a good work in us — will see it to completion.”
“The work that we undertake is a work of continual entrustment,” Father Gregory continues. “We trust as a conviction that God, who is good, wants to give us the kingdom. Fear not, little flock, [as in Luke 12:32]. So for Brother Lawrence, it’s an extension of a sacramental life; the type of thing you can do, as Saint Teresa of Avila said, amongst the pots and pans in the kitchen.”
