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Our readers asked:

Where in the Bible does it say that Mary, mother of Jesus, is sinless? And if it is not in the Bible, why does the Catholic Church act like she is?

Fr. Joe Answers:

Catholics differ from some Christian Churches which accept the Scripture as the only source of God’s revelation. Catholics have a strong belief in the truth of Scripture, but we also believe in tradition as a way in which God continues to reveal truth to us. Tradition can include beliefs, customs, prayers, and worship, the teaching of popes, bishops, theologians and Church councils. It’s our process of continually reflecting on the way in which the Word of God encounters our own experience as a community of faith.

Catholic understanding is that tradition includes the Scripture, and began before the gospels and letters were written. We do believe that Scripture is a unique revelation from God and that the truths of tradition must always be tested and evaluated against the truths revealed in Scripture. They should not contradict Scripture. They should find their roots in Scripture.

The belief that Mary lived without sin from the moment of her conception springs from Church tradition. It evolved over a period of time, and was not formally defined as a teaching of the Church until 1854. It is not found explicitly in Scripture, but seems for Catholics to flow naturally from the testimony of Scripture that Mary was “full of grace” (Luke 1:28) and “blessed” (Luke 1:42).

In Catholic understanding the belief in Mary’s “immaculate conception” does not say so much about Mary as it is about Christ’s saving power. We believe that God created the human person to be in God’s own image. Grace is more original than sin. Our natural state was to be “full of grace.” Sin is our universal experience but it’s not what God intended for us in the past nor wants for us in the future. We are saved from sin through Christ. Mary’s being conceived without sin takes place in the context of the entire saving act of Christ. In being “full of grace” she is a model of what we human beings were intended to be and who we are redeemed to be through God’s saving power. She is the first sign of God’s victory over sin in Christ.

You also ask: “Why are Catholics who are baptized when they were infants, choose to lead unholy, even atheistic lives, die and then the priest at the funeral says they are going to heaven because they were baptized?”

The bishop of Rome, as head of the Catholic Church, sometimes declares certain people to be “saints” because they lived such exemplary and holy lives that we can believe with confidence that they are “with God in heaven.” Such a declaration only comes after a long investigation into the facts of that person’s life. The Catholic Church has never declared any deceased person to be “in hell.” Aside from this we don’t know and can’t presume the eternal state of any person who has died, although we believe that God desires all people to be with him in death as well as in life. Baptism does not automatically ensure that a person will go to heaven when he or she dies. We must try to live out our Baptism with lives of faith, hope and love.

The Catholic Church asks its members to pray for those who have died BECAUSE we know that we are all sinners, and even when we have tried to live a good life we can die short of the purity of heart that makes eternal life “with God” a reality. Yet we believe that God’s mercy is not thwarted by death and that God has the power to purify and transform the soul even after death so that it is fully open to participating in eternal life. Purgatory is not a place of “sentences”, like a prison, because it exists in eternity which is timeless.

We should certainly pray for the living as well, that they may accept God’s grace into their lives.

 
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The Author : Fr. Joe
Fr. Joe Scott, CSP, has been a campus minister, pastor and editor as a Paulist priest.
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Please note that the editorial staff reserves the right to not post comments it deems to be inappropriate and/or malicious in nature, as well as edit comments for length, clarity and fairness.
  • shibu chennattu

    We are following the Bible as Holy bible as well as a truthful book. So we have to belive it as it is and not allowed to give different interpretation. Prophet Samuel was called by A women commanded by king saul. Women answered, “I see a spirit rising up out of the ground”(not from heaven”).Prophet Samuel was angry and asked king saul (not to the women)
     “Why are you bothering me by bringing me up like this?”Tomorrow the Lord will let the Philistines defeat Israel’s army, then you and your sons will join me down here in the world of the dead.
    It’s clear the holy prophet samuel and king saul are in peace in earth and it’s against the God’s policy to call the dead or intercede bcz we are disturbing them.
    Now about mother mary, we know apostles know better about her and for sure they would have said to intercede to her or about her status; if not don’t do it, if you are following bible. Sure she will answer you but by disturbing her peace you will be punished. All the miracles you are seing on her is her pain of disturbence and some is evils trick
    Jesus is our only mediator and intercissor as per bible so follow bible. God bless

  • mepatri3

    Interesting – except that Stephen was also declared “full of grace” by God in Acts 6:8. Was he sinless as well?

  • Tacauma Smith

    OT and NT has a relationship, that is called “typology”, why do you think we still use the 10 commandments which came from the OT ?

  • Margarita Pierce

    I have also been told, that my faith is not the thru faith..cause there are so many different denominations out there..well the Catholic Religion also has different denominations that also broke off of the Catholic Religion…like Episcopalian, Lutheran..so evidently there was something that they did disagree with the Catholics that made them break away..the main thing that I do see is that you all are refusing to go by God’s word..you are saying that it is not an Autorithy for us to go by..but yet you do go by your Sola Scriptura..you said that Jesus never wrote any of the letters in our Bible..do you feel that He wrote your Sola Scriptura? I believe the Bible to be God’s inspired word..just like I am sure that is how you feel about your Sola Scriptura..but the fact still remains that all the verses that I have showed you are still in your bible..but you are refusing to see it..I do hope that something does open your minds and you do see the truth..cause right now? if you are believing that it depends on the prayers of your loved ones on whether you go to Heaven or to Hell? you are not believing in Jesus Christ crucifixion being the payment for sin..and you are not saved..

    • Tacauma Smith

      The Catholic Church is the one true church – All of your so called cults and sects are just denominations that just started a few centuries ago, BTW, they are all registered corporations technically, so they are not a church. Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians and all other mainline protestants were ex communicated by the Catholic Church because of heresies, they are not part of the Catholic Church and they are not Catholic denominations. There are 40,000+ denominations right now all competing with each other that cannot even agree with each other, all claiming what you are claiming – All you need is the bible i.e. sola scriptura, just be born again, you do not need a church, just believe in Jesus, we are inspired by the Holy Spirit etc…. blah blah blah but all ended up establishing their own churhces… ahem …. registered corporations, now is this the work of the Holy Spirit ? Is this God’s plan for salvation ? Chaos in His own church ? Jesus said: A house divided cannot stand, now why are the so called “bible Christians” (nowhere found in the bible) i.e. protestant fundamentalists still claims that they have the truth ? How can they not see this obvious fact ?

      2nd, You have wrong interpretations of verses in the bible. Posting verses does not mean you have the right interpretation and automatically considered a doctrine. The Catholic Church is a 3 legged stool – Scripture, Sacred Tradition and Magisterium. We do not interpret the bible just by cherry picking each verses, and the bible is not the be all and end all of everything, if the Catholic Church followed your erroneous philosophy then you would not have a bible right now. The Holy Bible (Latin Vulgate) / 73 books of the OT / NT was codified and canonized by the Catholic Church based from its Sacred Tradition – A decision by its ecumenical council headed by its Magisterium ! Not Sola scriptura ! or anybody’s personal interpretation.

      3rd, Intercession of saints and angels helps and assist us in our relationship with God ! Just like evangelization and pastoral works of the church. This is not the only formula to be saved. Just like reading the bible it helps us in our understanding of the lives of Jesus, His Family and His church, but by reading the bible, it does not automatically guarantee you salvation.

      4th, No one is disagreeing the the salvific grace that was given by our Lord in Calvary. But still our salvation does not only require faith or believing, we must do our duties as a Christian (Catholic) by doing good works by following His Will and we start this in the Sacraments instituted by Christ Himself. No apostle or early church father subscribed salvation just by believing, it this was the case then protestantism by now would be numbered to a billion. Your statements just shows you have no clear understanding of what authority means. You think personal interpretation that changes overtime is what we should believe, If that is the case then we should also listen to the celebrity glib tongue televangelists that also has their own personal interpretations which is numbered to 40,000+ denominations.

      • Margarita Pierce

        You can call me a cult all you want….don’t bother me none..but when you do stand before Jesus? you will find out that the Catholic religion is the cult..and the one saying that God’s word is not God’s word..and you say in one second that we are all Mediators..and then you say something differently..Tacauma..you do need to know what you believe dear..and believe what you do know..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Sorry, the Catholic Church did not pervert scriptures and has never falsely prophesied end times with specific dates just like the history of evangelical fundamentalist protestants. LOL ! The Catholic Church preserved the Sacred Tradition of the Church, administered Sacraments which was taught by the apostles and the early church fathers and preserved Sacred Scriptures. Do you really think that Jesus has all the list of the 40,000+ denominations all contradicting each other ?

      • Margarita Pierce

        I do not care about anyone else predicting about when the world will end.. I have said anything like that and I know better then to say anything like that.

      • Tacauma Smith

        That is the history of protestantism – All about false end timers and prophesies. This is the problem of the false and heretical sola scriptura.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Well I don’t claim to be a Protestant..but it is fine..cause I already know that anyone that is not a Catholic to you is a Protestant..but that is fine with me.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Yes you are a protestant heretic, was there any instruction by Jesus, His apostles and disciples to just own a bible and be your own church and follow your personal interpretation that changes overtime NONE ! Again, Christ established the Catholic Church by handing the keys to the kingdom to Peter / Cephas and giving him prime authority to bind and loose (MATTHEW 16:18-19), not your personal interpretation !

      • Margarita Pierce

        As I said before…there was no need for the Apostles to have or carry the bible around..they had the whole bible in Jesus live..with them..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Their disciples (early apostolic church fathers) did not have it either in the stretch of 4 centuries, now how did they instruct and spread the Word of God ? – SACRED (ORAL TRADITION), not your sola scriptura and sola fide. Please use common sense, personal interpretation (sola scriptura) was never an instruction by the church since its inception. Do you ever wonder why there are 40,000+ denominations that cannot even agree with each other perverting and twisting scriptures but all claim what you claim ? “All you need is the bible”, “you do not need a church”, “just be born again”, “just believe in Jesus”, “Jesus and me”, “just accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour” but all ending up establishing their own cults and sects that creates more division among societies. Now is this the work of the Holy Spirit ? Please do not ignore this reality.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Don’t tell me what You think I am..you don’t even know me..I am showing you very important things in God’s word, and you are sitting there saying that the bible is not the authority..Boy is God going to jump on you when you stand before him..

      • Tacauma Smith

        You claimed you do not need a church, but you use the bible that the Catholic Church – You are a heretic.

      • Margarita Pierce

        The interpretations that I have put on here and explained? even a child would be able to see them Tacauma..you are just been brain washed by the Catholic and refuse to see pass what they have told you..it is that simple. We must do our duties as a Christian..but it is not required to go to Heaven..and you will not see it ..you will see us doing works associated with the Kingdom of Heaven..but not going to Heaven..Separate the two? and you might began to see the truth..In John 3:16? He does not tell us anything at all about works..and in Ephesians 2: 8 & 9? you do see God say that we are saved by grace thru faith and “not of works? so what do you have to say about God saying “not of works Tacauma what is it? do you think that God was lying to us when He said that? you best learn exactly what works is needed for..but for sure that it is not for our Salvation..Cause it is not me saying it…It is God saying it..

      • Tacauma Smith

        I guess the 40,000+ denominations that you completely ignore are not brainwashed by their apostate self proclaimed pastors that always claim the unbiblical sola scriptura ? LOL ! JOHN 3:16 explains Jesus was given by the Father to save us, but the verse does not say “sola fide’ ! Again, the operative word is “only”, and nowhere in the bible says that only by faith you will be saved. It is only mentioned when apostle James debunks its idea in JAMES 2:19-26 and MATTHEW 25!

        2nd, Apostle Paul is addressing the errors of the Judaizers in the New Covenant that is still following the old Mosaic Law which should not be followed by the Ephesians.

        3rd, Does apostle Paul contradicts himself in his epistles to the Romans, Ephesians and Corinthians ?

        [ From: BIBLE SAYS FAITH AND WORKS NEEDED FOR SALVATION
        Sal Ciresi ]

        The Bible tells us we must have faith in order to be saved (Hebrews 11:6). Yet is faith nothing more than believing and trusting? Searching the Scriptures, we see faith also involves assent to God’s truth (1 Thessalonians 2:13), obedience to Him (Romans 1:5, 16:26), and it must be working in love (Galatians 5:6). These points appeared to be missed by the reformers, yet they are just as crucial as believing and trusting. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3) should be heeded by all it’s certainly an attention grabber.

        Paul speaks of faith as a life-long process, never as a one-time experience (Philippians 2:12). He never assumes he has nothing to worry about. If he did, his words in (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) would be nonsensical. He reiterates the same point again in his second letter to Corinth (2 Corinthians 13:5). He takes nothing for granted, yet all would agree if anyone was “born again” it certainly was Paul. Our Lord and Savior spoke of the same thing by “remaining in Him” (John 15:1-11).

        Paul tells us our faith is living and can go through many stages. It never stays permanently fixed after a single conversion experience no matter how genuine or sincere. Our faith can be shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), departed from (1 Timothy 4:1), disowned (1 Timothy 5:8) wandered from (1 Timothy 6:10), and missed (1 Timothy 6:21). Christians do not have a “waiver” that exempts them from these verses.

        Do our works mean anything? According to Jesus they do (Matthew 25:31-46). The people rewarded and punished are done so by their actions. And our thoughts (Matthew 15:18-20) and words (James 3:6-12) are accountable as well. These verses are just as much part of the Bible as Romans 10:8-13 and John 3:3-5.

        Some will object by appealing to Romans 4:3 and stating Abraham was “declared righteous” before circumcision. Thus he was only saved by “believing” faith (Genesis 15:6), not by faith “working in love” (Galatians 5:6). Isn’t this what Paul means when he says none will be justified by “works of law” (Romans 3:28)? No, this is not what he means. He’s condemning the Old Covenant sacrifices and rituals which couldn’t justify and pointing to better things now in Christ Jesus in the New Covenant (Hebrews 7-10). A close examination of Abraham’s life revealed a man of God who did something. In Genesis 12-14 he makes two geographical moves, builds an altar and calls on the Lord, divides land with Lot to end quarrels, pays tithes, and refuses goods from the King of Sodom to rely instead on God’s providence. He did all these works as an old man. It was certainly a struggle. After all these actions of faith, then he’s “declared righteous” (Genesis 15:6). Did these works play a role in his justification? According to the Bible, yes.

        The Catholic Church has never taught we “earn” our salvation. It is an inheritance (Galatians 5:21), freely given to anyone who becomes a child of God (1 John 3:1), so long as they remain that way (John 15:1-11). You can’t earn it but you can lose the free gift given from the Father (James 1:17).

        The reformer’s position cannot be reconciled with the Bible. That is why the Catholic Church has taught otherwise for over 1,960 years.

        Where does our assistance come from to reach our heavenly destination? Philippians 4:13 says it all, “I can do all things in Him who strengthens me.”

      • Margarita Pierce

        You all also as I said..have other denominations that have also broke off of the Catholic religion..but you do not mention those do you? I am born again..You are the one that does not only needs to be born again…but to learn exactly what God does require you to do in order to receive Salvation..which I’m sure that you do not have.. you say that where are the bible Christians? we are all here..but you are blind and cannot see.. God’s plan for Salvation is us believing in who Jesus Christ is and what He did..that alone gives us Salvation, if we truly believe that He is the only way to Heaven..do you believe that He is?

      • Tacauma Smith

        The term “bible Christians” is nowhere found in the bible and nowhere taught by the early church fathers and the Sacred Tradition of the church. Again, you are not real churches, you are registered corporations that is using the Holy Bible that the Catholic Church gave in the 4th century, hypocrisy, worse, your protestant fundamentalist movement even perverted it to fit their own beliefs. The “born again” cultism is a heresy (20th century American invention), they did not even complete the verse of JOHN 3:5 ….”born again in water AND SPIRIT”. Now how can you become a Christian ? LOL ! Did the apostles, early church fathers and early Christians (Catholics) called themselves “bible Christians” or “bible believing Christians” or put up their own sect or cult ? I guess they are not saved by your standards (laughing at my seat). Again, you are a typical fundamentalist promoting heresies and attacking the Catholic Church because you cannot trace your church from the apostles and the early church fathers, all you do is extracting verses to come up with your own theology and hoping to make a following to establish your own sect or cult. Again, how many denominations are there that claim that they are “bible Christians” ? How come they are all divided and cannot even agree with each other ? This is the question you should ask, not church authority.

      • Margarita Pierce

        I never said anything about me being a Bible Christian..I say that I am a Christian and that I believe the bible to be God’s inspired word..as I said..it is no difference then with your cult..many have broke off of you all and come up with their own theory..I have showed you verse after verse..you are just refusing God’s word…again..put verse with verse and you will see that I am right about what and how to obtain salvation

      • Tacauma Smith

        Then how are you any different from other denominations ? They all claim what you claim – I am a Christian that believes the bible is the inspired Word of God but all ends up in different conclusions, that is why you have 40,000+ denominations. The sad part is you are using the bible that the Catholic Church codified and canonized in the 4th century, by using perverted different version to justify your own beliefs.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Trust that they all do not claim what I claim…..and the sad part is that as I said …..every single verse that I have showed you is also in the bible that you are readin, but yet you are refusing to believe it. Tacauma, you are contradicting yourself….you are asking me about how wrong I am by believing that the bible is Gos’s inspired word, cause we do not even have any proof at all that the characters in the bible even existed, but as I said you all surely do believe that Peter existed correct? You have no ideal what you are talking about….If we all looked at it that way….how would we even know thst Jesus even did and does exist? We believe by Faitn Tacauma, that is how we all believe what we do believe. None of us were there, none of us actually walked with Christ, but I do believe by Faith….how do you believe? By faith, or by what is told to you by your church or your Priest?

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! FACT CHECK – There is no proof that all the bible characters really existed ! NADA ! You can surf all history books and you will completely fail. That is why you cannot even find the history of the bible in the bible itself ! We Catholics believe that the bible is the infallible inerrant God breathed Word of God because it is approved by the Catholic Church ! Everything was taught thru Sacred (oral) Tradition, not sola fide because that is a heresy introduced in the 16th century, that is how the church instructed and guided Christians for 2000 years, the bible is just a teaching tool of the church that was added in the 4th century. This is why protestantism can only use deceptive tactics in converting naive people, because they just want you to believe and no facts, history or church to back up their claims, this is one of the reason why you have 40,000+ denomination.

        That is why, again, your bible is fallible, because you do not believe in the authority of the Catholic Church but you use and abuse the bible for your own personal gains. Do you ever wonder why protestantism could not produce their own bible ? They always have to take the Catholic Bible and its theologies and pervert their own ? Again, your ignorance have clouded your reasoning ! You have no idea the history on how the bible was put together by the authority of the Catholic Church and church authority in general. MATTHEW 16:18-19 is very clear which you are just completely ignoring. Nowhere in scripture says that scripture or the bible is the authority ! It is the church. Nowhere in scripture says that the church should put together all the writings of the apostles and the prophets ! Nowhere in scripture says that the church should label books in the bible – The Old and New Testament including chapters and verses ! That is all from the authority of the Catholic Church ! Because the Catholic Church has the authority to select the divinely inspired Canon. The apostles and the early church fathers taught in Sacred (Oral) Tradition not the bible, because the Book of the Apocalypse was only finished in 96 AD.

        Sola Fide is false.

      • Margarita Pierce

        I do not believe in any church to save me or for anything else, as I have said before..A church is a place for us to come together with those that do believe and worship our Savior..you worship your church, your Priest and Mary..and other Saints..Sorry but once again you are wrong..God warns us all of all that the Catholic church does..he tells us not to worship a Gaven Image, which by the way you all do.. You believe that God’s word is approved by the Catholic church..you are a disgrace to our Savior..that is all I have to say..you do not even worship Jesus Christ..all you do talk about is the Catholic Church…as I said..you are a disgrace to our Savior.

      • Tacauma Smith

        The one that is a disgrace to Jesus is the one who does not follow the teachings of the church He established !

        2nd, Can you find me Catholic doctrine that Catholics should worship the priest and Mary ? Again, your hallucinations has clouded your reasoning. My advise is check the dictionary first before you make an argument, you are typical fundamentalist evangelical that is so desperate to make a comment.

        [ PRAY (DEFINITION) verb
        – Address a solemn request or expression of thanks to a deity or other object of worship.

        Adverb: pray – Used as a preface to polite requests or instructions.

        WORSHIP (DEFINTIION) noun – The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. ]

        — Jesus gave authority to the Catholic Church (MATTHEW 16:18-19) – The authority to bind and loose ! Do you have a reading comprehension problem ?

        — You are saying in your arguments that Jesus is in error because He gave the church He established the authority to bind and loose ? Is Jesus a disgrace too ?

      • Margarita Pierce

        No wrong again…the one that is a disgrace? is you ..cause you follow a church, you do not follow Jesus Christ, or do you give Him any credit at all..but yet you do give a building all of the credit..I do feel for you..

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! Jesus established the church and gave the binding and loosing authority (keys to the kingdom) MATTHEW 16:18-19 – That is scripture and Sacred Tradition, Again, Jesus never gave the authority to your perverted bible that is why your protestant cult is a big failure – 40,000+ denominations that creates division and confusion and worse even perverting scriptures and bibles. BTW, your generic argument is also their same argument, now who do I listen too ? LOL ! Again, we gave you the Holy Bible (complete one), so why are you using the bible that the Catholic Church gave if you say you do not follow the church ? Hypocrisy.

      • E.j. Smith

        You fell into an trap because your feelings were hurt and reacted like a child. I am in RCIA, so I am sort of in the middle…a free range Christian…hahaha! Many of the traditions are the same, and many are slightly different depending on how fervently against one side or the other you are…hahaha! I enjoy both Catholic and Protestant churches and plan on being a part of both despite what anyone says. I will be confirmed in a couple of months. I know many Catholics who do the same, but few Protestants. Jesus never explicitly gave anyone the authority for the creating Bible without reading heavily into texts in a way that requires some bind faith into that interpretation…period. While I will say such speculation makes it possible, it isn’t proof on even a preponderance of the evidence scale. Thus, neither side can claim absolute assurance they are correct on Matthew 16:18. I have studied the verse from both sides of the coin in detail as is required for a good academic inquiry devoid of personal bias as much as possible. Can you say the same? The Protestant Bible is different than the RC Bible i many respects. For one, the Protestant Bible excludes the 15 books of Biblical apocrypha and the NT more closely follows the Kione Greek than does the Latin Vulgate according to most biblical scholars. The Pope himself in 2000 recognized the Lutheran denomination, so calling protestant churches cults does’t reflect well on you, does it? In a face to face, and if you were a man, or sometimes between women, such ugly insults by both of you could end up in someone missing some teeth, thus I think people often feel a little more bold when hiding behind a keyboard…don’t you? Try to pretend the person is standing in front of you at church and Jesus is watching, which He is. We all get caught up in emotion, but sometimes we need a little reminder. I have done it myself many times. But then again, I wouldn’t be afraid to say it in person to most people. That is one of my crosses I bear as well. We are supposed to be trying to close the gaps, not widen them because force of will.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Hurt my feelings ? Fell into a trap LOL ! What is so complicated in MATTHEW 16:18-19 ? Neither side can claim it ? Protestants in general cannot claim it because their philosophy is “sola scriptura” which is nowhere found in the bible, why do you think they have 40,000+ denominations? Please use common sense. The Catholic Church for 2,000 years is the rightful owner of it because it has been a part of its Sacred Tradition for 2,000 years. It’s authority is both in scriptures and Sacred Tradition. We can claim it because we can trace our origins from the Early (apostolic) church fathers and the Catholic (kath holes) Church can be found in the original Greek language in the Book of Acts. Ask any fundamentalist protestant on Matthew 16:18-19 and tell me what is their interpretation on it, most of them ignore it and they always use the excuse of “we are the church” blah blah blah. LOL ! FYI, I have debated the worst so called “bible Christians” (never mentioned in the bible), Margarita is just a garden variety. Most fundamentalist protestant debates are just anti-Catholic narrative bias arguments, no substance and floor to it, all attacks and when you answer and question their narrative their tendency is to jump to another anti-Catholic narrative, a wash rinse and repeat process. 2nd, protestants in general are ignorant in the bible especially in the history of the Holy Bible and the early church fathers / the early church, how was it assembled (codify and canonized) in the 4th century by the Catholic Church (Magisterium) and the Councils. they do not understand context, Sacred Tradition, history, Sacraments that is why they interpret it many ways that leads to errors, that is why they are numbered to 40,000+ denominations. 2nd, all Traditions are the same ? I think you have not learned anything from your RCIA class, which Tradition are you talking about which is the same with the Catholic (Sacred) Tradition ? 3rd, what is your point of being a Catholic then staying or being in other protestant fundamentalist groups or cults ? Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that you should isolate yourself or not interact with other faiths and denominations, nothing wrong having friends and relatives with other religious beliefs but if your reasoning is to be baptized as a Catholic and ignoring it’s teachings to appease yourself and other groups then you are in heresy. 3rd, the church has recognized the Lutheran church since the 15th century, not recently, but this does not mean they agree with you, Why do you think they reaffirmed all their doctrines in the Council of Trent in the 15th century?

      • Tacauma Smith

        “We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists – that with them is the Word of God, which we received from them; otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it.” – Martin Luther

        Again, the Catholic Church was established by Christ 2,000 years ago, it was given authority (keys to the kingdom) to bind and loose, that is why you have a bible right now, which unfortunately your protestant cult perverted, altered and abused that resulted to different versions to fit their own theology. Now if your protestant cult really believes that the bible is the infallible God breathed Word of God, why did they remove, altered and pervert it and created their own revised versions ? If you take out one character such as a comma or a period, then that automatically makes your bible “fallible” and “erroneous”, that is why your bibles are an abomination.

        2nd, we do not worship graven images, we pray to Sacred Images that represent the Blessed Trinity, saints and angels because we are all in communion with them.

        [ Usage of Images and holding of the engraved acts by God is biblical ]

        (Ex. 25:18-20) – And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

        19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

        20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

        (1 chronicles 28:18-20) – At the altar of incense pure gold weight should be used: the transport plan, holding the gold kerubing outstretched wings over the ark of the covenant of Yahweh. All this, he said it is written in the hand of Yahweh signified kin plan all do …

        (2 Chronicles 3:10-11) – In the most holy room he decided to build a two cherubim carved and overlaid with gold. “The wings of the cherubim were twenty cubits long; five cubits was the one wing struck the wall of the chamber and five cubits the other wing also struck the wing of a cherub.

        (Ezekiel 41:17-20) – From the door to the inside of the House and around the inner wall of the room. There are graven cherubim and palm; Each cherub had two faces. face of the person facing the palm on one side and the face of a lion facing palm on one side in the spleen around the house. From the floor to the top of the door were cherubim and palmang reflected on the wall ..

        (Joshua 7:6) – ripped Joshua and all the leaders of Israel, their clothes, put ashes on their heads a nagtirapa before the ark of Yahweh vouchers evening ….

        Moses was commanded by God to make an image of the snake. I ask? when they worshiped there, is this idolatry?

        (Numbers 21:8-9) – 8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

        (1 Kings 6:23-29) And within the oracle he made two cherubims of olive tree, each ten cubits high.

        24 And five cubits was the one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the other wing of the cherub: from the uttermost part of the one wing unto the uttermost part of the other were ten cubits. 25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size. 26 The height of the one cherub was ten cubits, and so was it of the other cherub. 27 And he set the cherubims within the inner house: and they stretched forth the wings of the cherubims, so that the wing of the one touched the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; and their wings touched one another in the midst of the house. 28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold. 29 And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without.

        (2 Samuel 6:3-5) – 3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart. 4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark. 5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. Divine Image: someone who does not deserve to die while no respect for the divine desire for it could not lay ….

        (2 Samuel 6:6-7) – 6 And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. 7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Praying to sacred images is the same as praying to a graven image..

      • Tacauma Smith

        The word sacred is different from grave(n) ! Do you want to use a dictionary ? God Himself provided IMAGERY of Him in many passages in the Bible such as The Holy Spirit made Himself an image of a dove and “tongues of fire”, now did he made Himself a graven image ? Jesus is the Flesh Image of God, so is God also a graven image ? God talked thru the burning bush, now is God a graven image ? Again, God ordered Moses to built an Ark for Him made of gold, is God and Moses idolaters ? In the Ancient of Days in his throne, “His clothing was as white as
        snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming
        with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze”. [Daniel 7:9]. So according to your logic Moses, David, Solomon, Joshua and all the OT j-e-w-s are idolaters ? LOL !

        Usage of Images and holding of the engraved acts by God is biblical

        (Ex. 25:18-20) – And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

        19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

        20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

        (1 chronicles 28:18-20) – At the altar of incense pure gold weight should be used: the transport plan, holding the gold kerubing outstretched wings over the ark of the covenant of Yahweh. All this, he said it is written in the hand of Yahweh signified kin plan all do …

        (2 Chronicles 3:10-11) – In the most holy room he decided to build a two cherubim carved and overlaid with gold. “The wings of the cherubim were twenty cubits long; five cubits was the one wing struck the wall of the chamber and five cubits the other wing also struck the wing of a cherub.

        (Ezekiel 41:17-20) – From the door to the inside of the House and around the inner wall of the room. There are graven cherubim and palm; Each cherub had two faces. face of the person facing the palm on one side and the face of a lion facing palm on one side in the spleen around the house. From the floor to the top of the door were cherubim and palmang reflected on the wall ..

        (Joshua 7:6) – ripped Joshua and all the leaders of Israel, their clothes, put ashes on their heads a nagtirapa before the ark of Yahweh vouchers evening ….

        Moses was commanded by God to make an image of the snake. I ask? when they worshiped there, is this idolatry?

        (Numbers 21:8-9) – 8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

        (1 Kings 6:23-29) And within the oracle he made two cherubims of olive tree, each ten cubits high.

        24 And five cubits was the one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the other wing of the cherub: from the uttermost part of the one wing unto the uttermost part of the other were ten cubits. 25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size. 26 The height of the one cherub was ten cubits, and so was it of the other cherub. 27 And he set the cherubims within the inner house: and they stretched forth the wings of the cherubims, so that the wing of the one touched the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; and their wings touched one another in the midst of the house. 28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold. 29 And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without.

        (2 Samuel 6:3-5) – 3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart. 4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark. 5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. Divine Image: someone who does not deserve to die while no respect for the divine desire for it could not lay ….

        (2 Samuel 6:6-7) – 6 And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. 7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

        Jesus allows itself to images ….

        (Mark 12:16-17) – They handed him a denarius, and said unto him: “What is described here, that here too his name?” They answered, “Caesar” And he said to them: “Give unto Caesar for Caesar, and to God what belongs to God”

      • Margarita Pierce

        Your whole church is nothing more then about tradition…that is all..how sad this is.

      • Tacauma Smith

        The Holy Bible came from the Sacred Tradition of the church passed on by the apostles and the early church fathers ! Sacred Tradition is in scripture ! 2 THESSALNONIANS 2:15

        2 THESSALNONIANS 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

        — How sad your cult could not comprehend on this.

      • Tacauma Smith

        I said your bible is “fallible” because you do not believe the infallible authority that approved it, but you still use and abuse it and claim it as your own. The Holy Bible (complete untampered one) was given by the Catholic Church and should not be used and abused by protestants. You have not justified anything from your verses, you are posting it to convince this thread that your subjective interpretation must be believed LOL ! Unless you prove to this thread that Jesus gave authority to scriptures then you win this argument, but it will not happen because Jesus never gave it to scriptures anyway LOL !

        2nd, Who said that I did not believe in Peter’s existence ? Do you understand what the topic is all about ? Again, you have no grasp on how the bible was put together by the Catholic Church. I believe that the bible is the infallible Word of God because it was approved by the Catholic Church as the divinely inspired books of the OT and NT. Approval was needed to authenticate those books as written by the prophets, apostles and the disciples. Again, there is no evidence, DNA, or any physical proof that all the bible characters really existed. But that is not my problem because we have the church, unlike yours only personal interpretation, that is why in a debate protestants always fail. Even other religion can debunk you “bible only” arguments.

      • Margarita Pierce

        You are actually going to believe in God’s word why? cause the Catholic approved it??? you are a joke..and God forgive you for you do not know what you are saying…you sit there and say that you are not worrying? cause you have the church..well you go ahead and keep your church…I have Jesus..and He is all I need.

      • Tacauma Smith

        The Catholic Church was given authority by Christ to approve the books which are divinely inspired – The Holy Bible, not your personal interpretation, do you really think God approved the 40,000+ denominations ? Are you really out of your mind ? We have Christ present in us through the Holy Spirit, not self proclaimed pastors and televangelists.

      • Margarita Pierce

        The Catholic church was not give anything by Christ…I have Christ in me cause I trusted Him by faith..had nothing to do with any Pastor Preacher or Televanglist..you all look at the Pope as if he were Christ, and God will get you all for that..I am sure that Rome is going to be the one that God will desolate in just one hr..It does sit on seven hills doesn’t it? and your churches are all about them beautiful colors that Chapter 17 & 18 in Revelation talk about..you all do not even realize how much you all have turned your backs on God and Praise your Pope..well continue, and you will see where you do end up in..

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! Who is the church that codified and canonize scriptures (Holy Bible) in the 4th century that defeated the heretics in their claims that they have the divinely inspired books ? Who is the church that declared the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the Nicene Creed in the 3rd century ? Who is the church that defeated all the heresies and diabolical ideologies in Christendom’s 2,000 year history ? Who is the church that preserved and continued the Sacred Tradition of the church that was taught by the apostles, disciples and the early church fathers ? Who is the church that introduced the Hospital in the 5th century ? Who is the church that developed the school system and collegial system ? Who is the church that developed the arts, architecture, music, culture, science, health, engineering, education etc that shaped the European Society ? That is all from the authority of the Catholic Church ! Your protestant only knocked off, cheapened and reduced all the Catholic Churches’ contributions to society. Even Christ’s Kingship here on earth. And who told you that the Pope is Christ ? Can you find me one Catholic doctrine that states it ? You are so desperate in your arguments now you even have to make up something to keep this thread off balance. And your typical spent Rev 17 and 18 does not say anything about a church LOL ! You should be the one asking yourself why are you following a heretical belief that turned its back against the church Christ established. If you really read the bible, then you should be worried about your cult’s connection the false prophets that Christ is saying:

        1 John 4:1-6 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. …

        1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

        Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

        2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

        Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

        Mark 7:6-9 And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!

        Romans 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

        2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

        Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

        Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

        1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

      • Margarita Pierce

        You are the one that asked that how did I even know if the Characters in the bible even ever existed…cause I was not around at that time..so what makes you any better then me? why? you actually believe that they existed? how do you know that? you were not even thought of then..Well I do know for sure that all of the characters in the bible did exist cause the Bible tells me so..and I do believe it to be God’s inspired word, which you do not.

      • Tacauma Smith

        I asked you that question to make sense in what you are saying, because you lack the common sense and logic when it comes to authority ! And your hypocrisy is even making matters worst. The Holy Bible (complete one) was codified, canonized, compiled, translated, decided and closed by the Catholic Church because there is no substantial physical evidence and proof that all the bible characters really existed. That is why it’s (authenticity) relies on the approval of the church because most of the epistles/writings or “autographs” of the apostles and disciples were destroyed and lost, so the church relied mostly from its Sacred (oral) Tradition to re write the New Testament Canon.

      • Margarita Pierce

        You just keep thinking that the Catholic Religion is the true Religion..and when you stand before Jesus? you are going to find out differently. and by the way..we don’t need a church to be saved..for if we did..the thief on the cross could not have been saved..and he was..you all are so wrong about Mary, and Salvation, it is unreal..I do feel for you Tacauma…I will pray for you that you do see the light and what Salvation is all about..it is obvious that you have no clue at all if you really think that we do need a church to be saved..A church and attending a church is good, in the sense that it lets us get together once a week or twice a week rather to worship with those that are believers..but In no way does any church save anyone.

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! Poor reasoning. Both thieves believed in Jesus, but the other one was prideful and questioned His divinity, the other demonstrated his humility thru the (Act of Faith) Baptism of Desire, the Sacrament of Confession, accepted his death sentence and even defended Christ from the other thief, (all faith and good works). Again, nowhere does it say that faith alone saves. The Bible in fact, explicitly states that faith alone does not save. The second Chapter of James says:

        Faith without works is dead ; Faith without works is useless ; Faith must be active ; Faith is completed by works ; A person is justified by works and not by faith alone

        – James even says that those who believe that faith without works is of any value is an “Ignoramus.”

        2ND, So is Jesus contradicting HIMSELF when He established His church in MATTHEW 16:18-19 ? Is Jesus contradicting Himself when He gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter, the prime authority to bind and loose in MATTHEW 16:18-19 ? Is Jesus contradicting Himself when He gave authority to His apostles in MATTHEW 18:18 ? Are these verses pointing to the authority of the church also contradicting Jesus’ Words ?

        [ Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15), (Matt. 16:18, 28:20), (Exod. 13:21), (Luke 10:16), (John 16:12–13) ]

        Is Jesus contradicting also contradicting HImself when He gave the authority to His apostles the “power to forgive sins” ? Now why did He say this if we do not need a church ?

        John 20:22
        If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone’s sins, they are retained.

        John 20:23
        After saying this he breathed on them and said: Receive the Holy Spirit. (Recall Genesis 2:7)

        2 Corinthians 5:17-20
        “God … has reconciled us to himself … given us the ministry of reconciliation.”

        James 5:14-15
        “Presbyters of the church … pray over him … he will be forgiven.” (Prayer of presbyters forgives sin.)

        See also: Luke 22:29-30, James 5:16

        — You are still denying this fact.

        3RD, Is Apostle Paul also contradicting sola scriptura when he said in Matthew 18:17 :

        MATTHEW 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

        — Did Jesus ever said that you do not need a church ? It seems that your so called personal interpretation contradicts the writings of the apostles themselves.

        — The church has the authority to bind and loose ! That is Bible 101, without the church, you will not have your bible right now ! The church administers the Sacraments to dispense the graces for us to be saved, that is why the apostles, disciples (early church fathers) baptized converts, including Paul, because this is the first step to be in God’s kingdom. The church is God’s Kingdom established on earth, not just for a mere social function. The church is not for (rock and roll music service) like what your fundamentalist self proclaimed pastors has taught you – That is false. Nowhere in the early church, early church fathers believed in this, this is an invention by heretics to only fit their own lifestyle, that is why there are 43,000 competing apostate denominations.

      • Margarita Pierce

        LOl so your religion has also taught you that all 2 thieves believes? wow you never stop to amaze me..another thing that you religion is wrong about..You do need to get out and run for you life..and you have the nerve to call me a cult..hahahahah..you and your religion is a joke, and do not even believe in God’s word..if the 2 thieves both believed in Jesus? Jesus would have said that they would both be with Him in Paradise..and the only thing that tells us all that the one was saved??? besides the fact that Jesus did tell him, that he’d be with Him in Paradise??? was that the thief did call Him “Lord” and His word tells us that no one in the Bible calls him “Lord” unless they are saved.. 1st Corin 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost… So dearheart, even if Jesus had not even said anything at all about him being with Jesus in Paradise? that alone would have told any of us that has any sense? that the thief got saved right there on the cross..He called Jesus “Lord” which does mean that he did believe that Jesus was Lord..and that is all we do need to believe to obtain Salvation..but your Priest and your cult is telling you all differently cause they want to have control of your life..Well as I told you before..I do not want anyone to have control of my life, but the one who did die for me..and that is none other then “Jesus Christ” Listen to me..what Peter is talking about..Faith without works is dead? is not even pertaining to us going to Heaven one day..it is something so very deep? that I will not even waste my precious time in telling you or showing you, cause I already know that you are blinded and will not see it..but I will tell you this much..if we needed works to go to Heaven???? would mean that God lied to all of us, when He said that Salvation is not of works ok? plus that it would mean that He also lied to all of us when He said that “Who so ever believeth? shall not perish but have everlasting life..Tacauma read your bible and stop listening to what they are drilling in your head ok? Works is needed, but not for us to go to Heaven..thinkkkkkkkkkkkk about what Jesus said..that it is NOT OF WORKS.. so what do you think? that God changed His mind after He said that? No He says what He means..and He also means what He says..I am praying for you..

      • Margarita Pierce

        And by the way..we are not Justified by works…we are Justified when we believe..We are Sanctified by works..and we will in the end? be Glorified..Wow you are lost..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Even the devil believed the Jesus is the Son of God, READ

        LUKE 1:34 34 Saying: Let us alone, what have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the holy one of God.

        MARK 1:23-25 23 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, 24 “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are–the Holy One of God!” 25 “Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!”

        Are they also gonna be saved ? Now they really believed that Jesus is the Son of God. Was Judas saved too, he also believed that Jesus was the Son of God ? So all people who just believed and say the unbiblical “I accept that Jesus is My Lord and Personal Saviour” are all gonna be in heaven right now ? How can you refute these other verses ?

        MATTHEW 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father in heaven.

        MATTHEW 7:14 Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.

      • Margarita Pierce

        The devil does not believe what we must believe in order to be saved..cause God created Salvation for only humans..and the devil is not a human being..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Wrong ! The devil believes in the divinity of Christ, that He is the Son of God, he knows everything about God and his condemnation to him, that is why he is deceiving many especially thru the heresies of protestantism – Sola Fide and Sola scriptura – All nowhere taught by the apostles and the early church fathers. Heresies is one of his tactics to drag more souls with him in hell and in the Lake of fire when Judgement Day comes. They are the false prophets i.e. 40,000+ denominations.

        MATTHEW 7 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        2 PETER 2:1-22 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; …

      • Margarita Pierce

        It does not matter what the devil believes…I have told you that Salvation is just for Humans ..Jesus died just for us, and the devil is not a human being..so who cares what he believes? he is still not saved.. Tacauma Smith

        Wrong ! The devil believes in the divinity of Christ, that He is the Son of God, he knows everything about God and his condemnation to him, that is why he is deceiving many especially thru the heresies of protestantism – Sola Fide and Sola scriptura – All nowhere taught by the apostles and the early church fathers. Heresies is one of his tactics to drag more souls with him in hell and in the Lake of fire when Judgement Day comes. They are the false prophets i.e. 40,000+ denominations.

        MATTHEW 7 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kin gdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. This verse that you have put on here? I already told you that those calling Him Lord? are saved..cause God says that no one call Him Lord unless they are saved..and also the fact that Jesus is telling them to depart from Him cause He never knew them..the only time in Scriptures that the Phrase ” I knew you or I never knew you is used? it is talking about an intimate relationship..do you not see where it says, and Adam knew Eve and she conceive? or Joseph knew her not until she brought forth her Firstborn? it is talking about an intimate relationship…this is where it is talking in other works about the “Works” that you are forever talking about..don’t you see that? When Jesus is telling someone ” I never knew you? He is just telling this person that they didn’t have an intimate relationship with Him..In other words, these people are saved, cause they are calling Him Lord? but they have no works? Works is associated with having an intimate relationship with our Lord..and also works is always associated with the Kingdom of Heaven..Again the Kingdom of Heaven & Heaven? are not the same places..The Kingdom of Heaven is referring to when Jesus sets it here on earth for the last 1000 yrs..then He will turn this Kingdom over to His father that is in Heaven..Not all saved are going to enter this Kingdom for that 1000 yrs..but all saved will be in Heaven..this is what God promises all that believe…and this is why in John 3:16 He says that who so ever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life..Everlasting in Heaven..not in the Kingdom of Heaven..and this is why God is telling us that Salvation is “not of works..

      • Tacauma Smith

        I am trying to explain the deception and fallacy of sola fide, just like the devil, Judas and the j-e-w-s who all believed in Christ (God) but rejected Him are all condemned. They all believed but rejected His Will (Commandments), like what protestants believe right now, they do not know the relationship of faith and good works. All the saints and martyrs gained eternal salvation because they did not just believed but they all did their duties as Catholics, they did not sit and doodle around assuming that they will be saved just by believing. Now can you give me one apostle and early church father that believed in this heresy (sola fide) ? This is the fallacy because if your Salvation is only possible in faith and good works, outside of that there would be no salvation. Sola fide is a deception, and nowhere prescribed by Jesus, apostles, disciples and early church fathers, which all of whom practiced faith, hope and charity.

      • Margarita Pierce

        You have never been to my church, so you do need to not be critizing it by saying that we have rock bands in my church..you know nothing..just running your mouth to hear yourself talk..you do need to read and study God’s word..cause everything that I have told you? is in the bible..and I have put the verses up to prove it..but as I said..you are blind

      • Tacauma Smith

        Wrong again, my dear. You did not read my comments very well, the thief that was saved demonstrated good works, the other one did not that is the difference. The thief that was saved exercised “good works” faith (baptism of desire) and repentance (good works). The other one believed and speculated about Jesus, this is where you are deceived, because just by saying you believe will not get you to heaven. This is what Jesus said so think again, do not user your emtions before you make a comment !

        MATTHEW 7:21-22

        21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?

        Again, you are so desperate justifying your faith alone heresy which is nowhere found in the bible, you are posting the thief on the cross where you do not even understand what the dynamics of his salvation was. Read

        MATTHEW 25:31-46

        31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:

        33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: 36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. 41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

        — Now tell me if you are gonna be saved by faith only ?? Oh don’t also ignore JAMES 2:19-26 LOL !

      • Margarita Pierce

        Tell me on what grounds you are figuring that a thief hanging on a cross has good works?huh? and neither one of them 2 thieves were baptized..another error that the Catholics lay on people..they were not baptized, and the one did go to Heaven..but only cause he did believe right at the end that Jesus Christ was the Savior..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Who told you that the other thief was baptized ? Did he repent and humbled himself to the Lord ? NONE just like fundamentalists do because of the deception of “sola fide” LOL ! The thief had a baptism of desire, He wanted to be a part of Christ kingdom. He fulfilled his duty to be a Christian – Conversion (confession), faith (baptism) and good works (repentance). He offered his suffering and death to God by telling Him “he deserved it” and Jesus did not ! Baptism by blood–a martyr’s baptism and baptism of desire–in which one is not able to be baptized or may never even have heard of it, but would have been baptized if given the opportunity.

        MARK 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

        JOHN 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

        1 PETER 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

      • Margarita Pierce

        If I said anything about the thieves on the cross being baptized? I am sure I got it from you..you are so wrong about the whole bible that is is just too much..there was only one thief that got saved…not both..and the one that got saved? never got baptized..that is what you Catholics try to feed people..I even had a Catholic tell me once that the thief got baptized with his own sweat..”oh please..

      • Tacauma Smith

        I never said both were saved. Now you are twisting my words. I said the thief that repented was saved not the other one. The word “Baptism” is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH – an immersion.

        BAPTISM by water is a sacrament of initiation into the life of the children of God (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1212–13). It configures the person to Christ (CCC 1272), and obliges the Christian to share in the Church’s apostolic and missionary activity (CCC 1270).

        — You cannot be saved if you are not baptized

        1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

        Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

        Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

        Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

        John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

        Romans 6:3-4 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Repentance is Good Works ! Repent (verb) definition: Feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin.

        2nd, Again, there is no “sola fide” or “only” as in the word “only” stated by Jesus and His apostles as the basis of salvation. It is “faith and good works”. Protestantism is basically undercutting Christ’s instruction / commandments.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Yes for sure and without a doubt that Salvation is by faith alone…and by the way those in Matt that will go into everlasting fire? if you notice that God never said to him ” I never knew you” which means that those people were not saved..even tho they did call Him “Lord” and no one calls Him Lord unless they are saved..but these verses are at the very end and all eyes will see Him as Lord at that time..but the main Phrase that does tell us that they were lost? is that God never said to them “I never knew you” I know most believe that when we see God saying ” I never knew you? that he is talking to a lost person..”NO” he is not..he is talking to one that is saved, but did not have a personal relationship with God..Anytime we see the Phrase “Knew you or knew you not? it is talking about an intimate relationship…and not all save? will or do have an intimate relationship with God..in Matt 7:21 those there calling Him Lord Lord? were saved..cause you will see where God is telling them ” I never knew you? plus that God is not talking about Everlasting life ..God is talking about entering the “Kingdom of Heaven..which by the way is what Works is needed for..We do not need works to be saved or to enter Heaven..but we do need Salvation plus works to enter the Kingdom of Heaven..which is when Jesus does set it here on earth for 1000 yrs…I know that most believers do believe that all saved will enter the Kingdom of Heaven? but they are wrong ..we do see Jesus in Matt 7:21 saying that all that are calling him Lord Lord will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those doing His fathers will..when we begin to do our father’s will? that is works Tacauma..that is what the book of James is all about..if we do not have works? we in no way will enter the kingdom of heaven..but we will still be in Heaven when the 1000 yrs is finished..Study the bible in stead of the Sola Scriptura and you will see the light..I do pray for you

      • Tacauma Smith

        Faith alone ? You are really on a trance LOL ! Again I have asked you this question, where does it say “SOLA” or “ALONE” you will be saved by faith ? You do not know what you are talking about, the operative word is “SOLA”and there is no “by faith alone you will be saved” in any chapter and verse in the bible. Even the OT j-e-w-s never believed in this lie. Personal relationship with God is “faith and good works”. That means you follow His will, you carry the cross that has been given to you. God is a demanding friend, You have to do God’s Will in order to be saved, not just professing your faith, again faith without good works is dead. Faith only or sola fide is “lip service” to God.

        James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

        Galatians 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

        Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

        James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

        Matthew 6:1-4 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other
        people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward
        from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy,
        sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
        in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you,
        they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not
        let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your
        giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward
        you.

        Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

        James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

        Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

        Philippians 2:13 For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

        Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

        Titus 3:14 And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

        James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

        Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.

        Revelation 2:19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.

        Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

        Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

        Isaiah 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.

        Psalm 37:3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.

        Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

        Titus 3:1 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

        Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

        James 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

        Ephesians 2:6-10 And raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

        Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; …

        Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

        1 Peter 2:12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

        1 Corinthians 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

        Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

        Matthew 25:34-40 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? …

        2 Thessalonians 2:3-13 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. …

        Luke 10:29-37 But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. …

        Matthew 25:34-42 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? …

        Matthew 25:1-46 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. …

      • Margarita Pierce

        You are the one that is in a trance, and you best get out of that trance and wake up..cause let me say it again..Salvation has nothing to do with works? and you are not paying attention to what God is telling you..God is the one that said “not of Works” not me..you do not understand scriptures at all..I have told you a million times already that James is not talking about what God promises us in John 3:16..James is way too deep for you, so don’t even try to understand it..cause I am sure that it will go over your head..even those that are not as blinded as you are? too miss what James is talking about..so therefore? I know that you will not see it either..even tho I have tried to explain to you..I am starting to think that you are brain dead..

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! Way too deep for me or maybe to factual for you. JAMES is crystal clear – Faith without works is dead. The Book of James is also one of the hated books of Martin Luther even calling it “epistle of straw”. No level headed person would not understand his writings. Your fundamentalist mentality is full of self denials, that is why you have 40,000+ denominations.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Tacauma, the thief that got saved did not demonstrate any good works at all. How in the world could he have any good works at all, if he was hanging on the cross…Lord have mercy, you are wrong on just about all that you believe…the thief never never domonstrzted any good works at all. He only demonstrated that he believed in Jesus Christ as the Savior..he realized that Jesus was the Lord. This is why he called Him ” Lord” no one calls Him Lord Tacauma unless they are saved, except for the very end, when all eyes will see Him as ” Lord”

      • Tacauma Smith

        Repentance is good works, he even admitted his wrongdoings and offered his earthly suffering and punishment to the Lord.

      • Margarita Pierce

        To Repent is to turn away from whatever sin we might have committed…How we do live our lives after that we are saved? does have to do with Good works. but it is still not needed for Salvation…there will be many that besides their Salvation? will receive much cause of their good works..and there will also be many that will suffer loss at the JS..I am beginning to believe and I do hope that I am wrong…that you might not even be at the JS..

      • Margarita Pierce

        No sorry but you are the one wrong AGAIN, the one that got saved? did not have any works at all..good or bad..he just believed that Jesus was Lord..and that is what saved him, the reason that you are adding to it, and saying that he had good works….is cause what else could you say? you are stuck on believing that it takes works to be saved…and the thief of the cross is proving you wrong…so you all have come up with the ideal that he had works..He had no works at all, and he never got baptized…he just believed..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Wrong ? Did all the martyrs, saints, disciples and apostles just sat by till they died just by believing ? They all did their duty following God’s Will even faced with persecution and death, now was this all “faith alone or sola fide” ? Did Apostle Paul went to exile and retirement after he was converted and baptized ? He himself also preached, converted, baptized (administered) Sacraments until he faced martyrdom which are all good works. Please use common sense, they all suffered and worked to back up their faith because they love God. Actions speaks louder than words. This is why no protestant can claim any martyrs and saints in the church’ 2,000 year history. Your cult has misled millions even gave an excuse to commit more wrongdoings because of the sola fide’s deception.

      • Tacauma Smith

        You said “all have sinned” (as in all human beings that existed). Christ became human being, born from the womb of Mary, which you deemed to be a sinner, that is why your statement is claiming that Jesus is a sinner ! Again, you are stick with your “sola fide” heresy which the word “only” is not found in anything except when it is being debunked by Apostle James in James 2:19-26 and easily refuted in Matthew 25:31-46 which you are still ignoring.

  • Margarita Pierce

    Ok let me repeat this to Tamacau again..I did write her on her statement about Mary’s Birth of Jesus …she said that Mary was a saved woman and a virgin, so that this is what is making Tacamau think or believe that Mary was sinless…Ok no one is disputing the fact that Mary was a virgin and a saved person..of course that she was..I don’t believe that God would plan a seed in the womb of an unsaved person..but this does not make anyone of us sinless…so what in the world makes you Tacamau feel that this made Mary sinless…Try to use your common sense here Tacamau..Mary had an earthly father like we all do..the only people from the beginning of time that had no sin? were Adam & Eve at the beginning and Jesus Christ..and think about what I am saying here..all Three had no eartly father…God tells us in his word, and I’m sure it is in your Sola Scriptura too, that sin did enter the world thru one man..and that man was none other then “Adam” “yes” I know that Eve also ate of the fruit first, but God never held Eve responsible for sin entering the world…He held Adam responsible,. cause He did create man first..so this is how we all are born into sin..We get it from our earthly fathers, not from our mothers..It does not matter that our Mothers are sinful..we still receive it from our fathers..As I said only three people in this whole world since the beginning of time were sinless..Adam, Eve & Jesus Christ..now Adam & Eve did sin afterwards, but still they were created sinless. No one ever has been born sinless..If you do not see this? maybe it is not meant for you to see it..but I do pray that someone might see what I am saying here, and realize that if the Catholic religion are wrong about this? that just think of how many other things they might be wrong..Cause this is something very important for us to have right..So that is it…this is a fact Tacamau, and if you don’t see it? then as I said..you are not going to see it..could be cause you are refusing to see it..

    • Tacauma Smith

      The womb of Mary is still part of her body, if you say Mary committed sin then Jesus also had sinned because Jesus came from the womb of Mary, like all children they all came out from their mothers womb, they all share their mother’s DNA / Flesh. That is why the church defined the Immaculate Conception – Mary was saved by God before she was conceived, because God knows that Mary’s earthly parents were not perfect. Now why is this hard for you to understand ? The Immaculate Conception settles this argument coming from other religions that questions Jesus’ Divinity and purity. Not to believe in The Immaculate Conception of Mary is an affront to Jesus Himself.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Mary did commit sin just as you and I have Tacauma..and you will find out for sure when you get there..I don’t care about DNA or anything else..I am not going to repeat it again..you are blind and have a completely closed mind.It was an Immaculate Conception, cause it was by the Holy Spirit and cause man had nothing to do with it at all.

      • Tacauma Smith

        The only blind and committing heresy right now is your diabolical logic. You cannot accept the fact that Jesus came from the womb of Mary, which is part of her body. Now why are you ignoring this ? You do not believe in the Immaculate Conception because you do not understand the Humanity and Divinity of Christ, you are only here to blaspheme Jesus’ by attacking the Immaculate Conception.

      • Margarita Pierce

        I am not ignoring anything about Mary. But why in the world are you ignoring all of the verses that I have showed you, proving to you that God says that there is none righteous none one? Or that God says that Jesus was Mary’s Firstborn? You are the one ignoring everthing that God is telling you about Mary.. She also had the same sin nature that we all have, but Jesus still did not.

      • Tacauma Smith

        So are you saying that Christ is not perfect then because He too was a human being born from the Womb of Mary (a sinner) ? You have no idea how you secretly blaspheme Christ by posting those erroneous argument. That is the same argument used by heretics attacking Jesus’ human perfection as a human being to undermine His divinity, that is why the church defined the Immaculate Conception. You are ignoring the humanity of Jesus that came from the womb of Mary, if you apply your shallow “bible only” logic then Jesus as a perfect Man and being is false.

        2nd, you are the one ignoring what I have posted on how Mary was perfected before she was born. Why did Angel Gabriel saluted Mary “Hail Full of Grace” which is Kecharitomene in Greek ?

        [ “Kecharitomene” is the perfect passive participle tense of the verb meaning “to fill with grace,” Because it is in the perfect participle tense, it means that Mary was already filled with grace and there is no room for sin in her before the Annunciation, the implication being that she was the immaculate! ]

        No other character in the bible was called kecharitomene except for Mary. The Angel Gabriel is not speaking his own words, rather he is delivering God’s message to her.

        Luke 1: 28 “Hail, (kecharitomene: one who has always been full of grace), the Lord is with you. Blessed you among women.”

        So in Luke 1:28, Mary has always been and remains full of grace, and Stephen gets filled with grace only from a certain point in time [Acts 6:8]

        — Now why are you ignoring this verse ? Again, your logic blasphemes Jesus Himself because HE SHARES HIS HUMANITY WITH MARY (BODY AND BLOOD) i.e. DNA. You have to come up with another explanation to justify the human perfection of Jesus.

        FIRST BORN (Definition) from bible (dot) org

        Christ is called God’s “firstborn” in Hebrews 1:6. This is a metaphorical use of the term and does not imply that Christ merely was created prior to other beings or the world in general. Rather it connotes his special status as the unique Son of God.

        In the Book of Hebrews the author appears to call Christians “firstborn ones” (prototokon) in virtue of their relationship to Christ, whom he has already called the “firstborn” (prototokon) in 1:6. Through him they have been “enrolled in heaven.”

      • Margarita Pierce

        Mary was not perfected before she was born..this is what the Catholic Religion have taught you..And I have never said that Jesus is not perfect..He sure was and is perfect..You are adding to all that I say, and do not forget that God does not want us to add or take away from His word. Jesus Christ was the only one human being that was sinless, except for Adam & Eve when they were created..no one else is sinless..not even Mary..

      • Tacauma Smith

        “Kecharitomene” is in LUKE 1:28 – That is scripture which means “to fill with grace” or “full of grace” ! This means that there is no room for sin and error with her, this is why we believe in her Immaculate Conception. If she is not perfected then Jesus is not perfect because Jesus came out from Mary’s Womb ! Again, if you really stick to this heresy then go ahead, you are already stating that Jesus’ Humanity is tainted because He came from a sinful Mother who is Mary. Again, you just could not comprehend the Greek language (original language written by the apostles and the early church fathers). Again, I will post the Greek word that was used “Kecharitomene”

        Kecharitomene (Greek definition) from Catholic point:

        “Kecharitomene” is the perfect passive participle tense of the verb meaning “to fill with grace,” Because it is in the perfect participle tense, it means that Mary was already filled with grace and there is no room for sin in her before the Annunciation, the implication being that she was the immaculate!

        No other character in the bible was called kecharitomene except for Mary. The Angel Gabriel is not speaking his own words, rather he is delivering God’s message to her.

        Luke 1: 28 “Hail, (kecharitomene: one who has always been full of grace), the Lord is with you. Blessed you among women.”

        So in Luke 1:28, Mary has always been and remains full of grace, and Stephen gets filled with grace only from a certain point in time [Acts 6:8]

      • Margarita Pierce

        I have never said that Christ is not perfect..you are the one saying that..I have sense enough to know that Jesus was perfect and without sin…and I also have sense enough to know that Mary was not perfect..I do not care how full of grace she was..she had an earthly father..and that is where she received her sin nature..You Tacauma are not listening..you do not have what is called ” common sense” so you best get it.. Get it in your head? anyone that has an earthly father? is born into sin..Got it? Jesus had no earthly father..and He could not receive Mary’s sin nature from her..cause we do not receive from our mothers…Wow I am telling you that you are missing what I said..Common sense..and as I said you best find it..cause if you don’t? so far? I do think that you are on your way to hell..You Catholics are the ones that are a cult “no doubt” for you do twist God’s word to make it fit your life style, to believe that the RCC is the one with the authority..how crazy you are.. First born means that Mary did have other children..you do not even know the meaning of First born.. And by the way Christ was in deed created before all other human beings..and I guess this is just one other thing that you are totally blinded to..

      • Margarita Pierce

        firstborn (also known as an eldest child) is the first child born to in the birth order of a couple through childbirth. Historically

  • Margarita Pierce

    Noni..I have never said that the Holy Spirit is not in the west..I guess that you must be referring to someone else. I do think it is best that we put the person’s name at the beginning of our comments, this way we will know who the comment is referring to..

  • Margarita Pierce

    God is all over noni..this one saying that God is in the East…must be a muslim..and by the way..Allah is not the God of the bible..even tho they will try their best to tell you that it is..

  • Margarita Pierce

    There is no much in the Bible that if we study deep and put verse with verse? it will all come together..” Yes” I do admit that a lot about God doesn’t make any sense..but that is what really does make me know that there is a God..if all about Him made sense to us? then He wouldn’t be God..but if we think of Life? there has to be a God..Live to me is so precious, that it makes even less sense that we are born, live for so long and then die and what? never exist again? this makes less sense then that there is life after death..There are many things of God that have and still puzzle me..the ideal that He is outside of Time..that He actually made Time..that He was always..that He never had a beginning..but as I said…after studying and putting verse with verse? the God of Abraham Jacob and Issac does exist..

  • Margarita Pierce

    I also know that most people believe that Jesus could have sinned..cause the bible tells us that he was tempted..but this too is wrong….there is no way that Jesus could have sinned at all..cause if He could have sinned then? means that He could sin now and tomorrow and we’d all be in a heap of trouble..The Bible tells us that Jesus was tempted to sin…meaning that the devil tempted Him to sin..this does in no way mean that Jesus was tempted to sin..He didn’t have the sin nature that as I said, we all receive from our biological fathers..Jesus was sinless and also had no desire to sin as we all do..

    • Tacauma Smith

      I never said that Jesus committed sin.

      • Margarita Pierce

        I never said that you said that Jesus committed sin..I said that most people do believe that He could have sinned.

      • Tacauma Smith

        And that includes you ! Because you do not believe in the Immaculate Conception. Posting again:

        Mary was saved before she was conceived, that is why she is “full of
        Grace” ! That is Kecharitomene in Greek (language spoken and written by
        the early church fathers) not your heretical English translation !
        Again, is this too complicated for you ? If you do not beleive this then
        you are saying that Jesus was also tainted by sin. Again, for the nth
        time, Jesus came from the womb of Mary, they share the same DNA / Flesh /
        Blood !

        Kecharitomene (Greek definition) from Catholic point:

        “Kecharitomene”
        is the perfect passive participle tense of the verb meaning “to fill
        with grace,” Because it is in the perfect participle tense, it means
        that Mary was already filled with grace and there is no room for sin in
        her before the Annunciation, the implication being that she was the
        immaculate!

        No other character in the bible was called
        kecharitomene except for Mary. The Angel Gabriel is not speaking his own
        words, rather he is delivering God’s message to her.

        Luke 1: 28 “Hail, (kecharitomene: one who has always been full of grace), the Lord is with you. Blessed you among women.”

        So
        in Luke 1:28, Mary has always been and remains full of grace, and
        Stephen gets filled with grace only from a certain point in time [Acts
        6:8]

        —- That is the difference ! In your faulty logic Jesus is a
        sinner because she was born from a sinful mother, Again, your reasoning
        is faulty, erroneous and heretical. LOL !

      • Margarita Pierce

        Nothing that you say to me is ever too complicated for me..Tell me something..what part of ” there is none righteous none one, is it that you do not understand? again do you feel that God is saying that but doesn’t mean it? or that He forgot to say ” except for Mary? come one now…open your eyes..I know now for sure that God did bring me here to open up your eyes to what He wants you to see..Do you not see that this whole conversation has be left to just you and me? and NO I do know for sure that He didn’t put you here to open my eyes..cause He does know that mine are wide open, and so is my mind.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Open up my eyes ? Who will open up my eyes ? The 40,000+ denominations ? Who among you should I believe ? LOL ! Your arguments are uniformed and scripted ! Devoid of anything intellectual from the writings of the early church fathers, Sacred Tradition of the church and Sacred Scripture. LOL ! This is the reason why your cult movement are always in constant division. Your interpretation is not authoritative, only personal interpretation i.e. opinion. Keep me laughing….

  • Margarita Pierce

    Mary was a virgin..no doubt about that..but she was in no way sinless..there is no verse that does say that she was..Catholics do believe this from traditions not from scriptures..There is no way that she was sinless, cause it would make a lot of things in scriptures false.. the scriptures do tell us that there is not righteous none one, that we all come short of the glory of God..The bible also tell us that we all receive our sin nature going all the way back to Adam, meaning that we all that have a biological father? are born with a sin nature..Jesus had no biological father..so there for it didn’t matter that Mary was sinful like all of us…cause He still would not receive this sin nature from her..it would have to come from a biological father..and Jesus had none..so the ideal that she was sinless? is just their tradition..and they are just wrong about too many things..They also believe that Mary never had any other children..but she did..Matt 1:25 does tell us that “Joseph knew her not until she brought forth her “Firstborn” ..that alone does tell us that she did have more children..or else God would never had said “Firstborn”…She was not sinless, and she did have other children.They are just too far out there..

    • Ron

      The Bible doesn’t say she was sinfull either, and as the Mother of God, It pretty much makes a better case to her sinless nature than a sinfull one, only in those of Sola Scriptura who trivilize everything of God’s power is The Virgin Mary sinfull, trivilize!, yes because in the 40,000+ sects of Sola Scriptura very few are in agreement in the major theological differences with Catholic belief.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Ron, if you do not see that sin did enter thru Adam, and that we all receive our sin nature from our biological fathers? I don’t know what else to say..you say that the bible doesent’ say that she was sinfull either..come one, the bible does say that Jesus was sinless, why wouldn’t it say if Mary was sinless? it does tell us and show us as I said, that we all receive our sin nature from our fathers, not our mothers..Mary was a Godly woman and a virgin I am sure, but sinless? never cause she too had a biological father..do you not see this? I said that many times or most of the time..we too have to use our common sense when it comes to God’s word..He doesn’t come straight out and say that Mary was with sin, or that Mary did have sexual intercourse with Joseph or that she had other children..but He still does tell us in other words..you are just refusing to see it..He does tell us as I said, that thru one man sin entered the word..Jesus did not have an earthly father, but Mary did..He also tells us in Matt 1:25 that Jesus was her Firstborn..meaning that she did have other children..and He also tells us that Joseph knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn..Again the phrase “Knew her not” means a sexual relation Ron..so it is telling us that after he must have..cause he is say that Joseph knew her not till? meaning that after she did bring forth her firstborn that Joseph did have sexual relations with her..or rather ” Knew her” Geezzzzzzzzz how much plainer do you want to see it?

      • Defins

        Ron, we are all born of sin. Mary included. That’s the whole purpose of Jesus. That’s why we have to be “born” again. Read John 3-3.

      • Tacauma Smith

        It is born again in WATER AND SPIRIT ! Not just born again. and John 3:5 refers to the Sacrament of Baptism which was administered by the apostles themselves. The apostles and disciples did not promote born again cultism. Baptism (NT Circumcision) in water was dogmatically declared by Peter in the Council of Jerusalem – Book of Acts by declaring the invalidity of circumcision in the new covenant.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Defins is right…we must be born again. Go ahead and read John 3;3 as Defins suggested.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Did Jesus ever instructed people to just claim the title “born again” and do not follow the church He established and neglect the importance of Baptism ? Why won’t you read context instead of cherry picking your favorite verse to fit your own heretical belief ?

        JOHN 3:5 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

        — Now is putting up your own sect, cult or fellowship instructed by Christ ? And how many “born again cults” right now has their own independent church who also contradicted what they claimed that they do not need a church ? LOL !

      • Margarita Pierce

        Followering any church will never save anyone Tacauma..Having faith In who Jesus Christ is and what He did is what will save us all..I don’t really care or am I going to be worrying about how many cults are out there..I try my best to show all exactly what saves us.and I do show it to them in the Bible…the problem that I see with u is that you are not putting verse with verse….When you read the book of James…and you seen where James was saying that it is Faith plus works…did you not even think, or did you not remember that God had said that salvation is “not of Works? this is was is called putting verse with verse..When I seen what James said? I knew right away, that we didn’t works…but that it was not for Salvation..cause I did remember God telling me “not of works” plus that I also knew that God cannot lie to us..and this is what made me study even more and deeper..God’s word contains Milk, and it also contains very strong Meat..you may never see the Meat of His word..cause you do not even have His milk straight..have a great day..

      • Tacauma Smith

        LOL ! Have you ever read MATTHEW 25:31-46 that I have posted many times on how God will judge us by faith and works in Judgment Day ? This is exactly what James is trying to explain !

        MATTHEW 25:31-46

        31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

        32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

        33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

        34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

        35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

        36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

        37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

        38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

        39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

        40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

        41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

        42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

        43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

        44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

        45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

        46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

      • Margarita Pierce

        We do not need to be baptized Tacauma in order to be saved..for if this was true? would mean that the thief on the cross didn’t get saved and went to hell..and the Bible does tell us different..Think about what you are saying here..I do agree that after that we are born again? that we do get baptized. cause it is what He has commended us to do..

      • Tacauma Smith

        So Peter who baptized thousands of converts is wrong ? Paul after his conversion was sent to be baptized by Anaias, was he also in error ? Again, (posted already)

        The thief on the cross that was saved demonstrated faith and good works (faith, confession, penance and reconciliation) ! The thief made an public “Act” of faith (baptism of desire). He made an oral confession of guilt (confession), humbled himself before God as he acknowledged and accepted his just sentence (penance). He defended Christ from the other thief. He did something concrete as oppose to the thief in the left side of Christ, who believed but challenged and questioned Christ’s Divinity.

        The bible says that faith in Jesus saves. This is certainly undeniable. But nowhere does it say that faith alone saves. The Bible in fact, explicitly states that faith alone does not save. The second Chapter of James says:

        – Faith without works is dead
        – Faith without works is useless
        – Faith must be active
        – Faith is completed by works
        – A person is justified by works and not by faith alone

        James even says that those who believe that faith without works is of any value is an “Ignoramus.”

        Again, the good thief not only had faith but it was actualized. He made a public profession of faith ; Repented of his sins, admitting his guilt. ; Preached the truth of Christ (which also was obedience to the 8th commandment about not bearing false witness) ; Embraced suffering in union with Christ. (Rm 8:17) ; Followed Christ to the best of his abilities for the remainder of his life.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Wow you do have a hard head don’t you..you say that no where in the bible does it say that faith along saves..ok go read Ephesians 2:8 & 9..and tell me if it does not say that we are saved by Grace and Faith “not of Works? does it not say that? ok and as for Peter or Paul being wrong? I have no ideal what you are referring to.Tacauma, the bible does state that faith alone does save us…God said “not of works..As I said..works is needed or we should be working on having Works before we appear at the JS..but it has nothing to do with us going to Heaven..also Read 1st Corin 3:11-15 and you will see one there that didn’t have works..his works were of Wood, Hay & Stubble, which means that his works are going to burn up when it is put thru the furnance of fire..That man had no Righteous Works..and God is telling us that this person is going to suffer loss, but that he shall still be saved..Got it? if we don’t have works of Gold, Silver & Precious stones? they will be worthless and we are going to suffer loss..but we do know for sure that it is not our Salvation…cause God is telling us..and I did tell you before that we are not Justified by works..we are Sanctified by works..why is it that I do feel as if I am banging my head up against a brick wall?
        Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)

        8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
        9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

        1 Corinthians 3:11-15King James Version (KJV)

        11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

        12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

        13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

        14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

        15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

      • Margarita Pierce

        Jesus Christ is our Foundation Tacauma…and our works? is the types of material that we use to build upon this foundation….there are only two different types of material Tacauma..either Wood, Hay & Stubble..or Gold Silver & Precious Stones..that is it. and not all saved? will have the Gold Silver & precious stones..so we best get to working, to make sure that when we do get there? that we do have the kind of material that is not going to burn..but again..it has nothing to do with us having or receiving “Everlasting Life” which is what God promises all that believe..

      • Tacauma Smith

        You are the one that is hard headed ! Catholics do not deny that grace can save us, that is not the issue here, the issue here is the heresy of the unbiblical sola fide. Our Catechism states:

        Without grace we are not justified. CCC#1996
        After that we need faith (CCC#161) which is only possible with grace CCC#154. This faith must be lived out in the form of action/works…whatever you want to call it (CCC#1815) Pay special attention that we can’t do these without grace either: CCC#1821.

        — That is why faith and good works is essential in our salvation. What protestants do is slice and dice all these elements and make up their own theology that confuses and misleads millions of people by using words like “sola” and “sufficient”.

      • Margarita Pierce

        No works is not needed for our Salvation..If works is needed for our Savation would mean that Jesus’s sacrifice is nit sufficient. And it was more then sufficient… I do agree that after that we are saved? That we should seek to have righteous works…but not so that we can go to Heaven..His crucifixion took care of that, and all He say that we must do to recieve Salvation is to believe in Him and in what He did..

      • Margarita Pierce

        The bible does say that she was sinful..just like it also says that we all are sinful.. it says that there is none righteous none one…do you think that this excludes Mary? no I don’t think so..and we do know that Jesus was sinless..cause it says so over and over again in His Word.

      • Tacauma Smith

        What the Mother of God was sinful ? Which personal sin did she committed ? Genesis 3:15 states that God placed an enmity between her and satan, now how can Mary commit sin when she is in perpetual battle against satan ? Even Angel Gabriel greeted her “Hail full of grace”… which also defies logic because Angels are created higher beings than human beings.

        “Hail full of grace”, Kecharitomene in Greek means “having been” or “have already been” graced which means there is no room for any sin.

      • Margarita Pierce

        You are out of your mind Tacauma..We all are saved by His grace..so in that sense..we can all say that we too are full of grace..but in no way are anyone of us sinless.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Mary was saved before she was conceived, that is why she is “full of Grace” ! That is Kecharitomene in Greek (language spoken and written by the early church fathers) not your heretical English translation ! Again, is this too complicated for you ? If you do not beleive this then you are saying that Jesus was also tainted by sin. Again, for the nth time, Jesus came from the womb of Mary, they share the same DNA / Flesh / Blood !

        Kecharitomene (Greek definition) from Catholic point:

        “Kecharitomene” is the perfect passive participle tense of the verb meaning “to fill with grace,” Because it is in the perfect participle tense, it means that Mary was already filled with grace and there is no room for sin in her before the Annunciation, the implication being that she was the immaculate!

        No other character in the bible was called kecharitomene except for Mary. The Angel Gabriel is not speaking his own words, rather he is delivering God’s message to her.

        Luke 1: 28 “Hail, (kecharitomene: one who has always been full of grace), the Lord is with you. Blessed you among women.”

        So in Luke 1:28, Mary has always been and remains full of grace, and Stephen gets filled with grace only from a certain point in time [Acts 6:8]

        —- That is the difference ! In your faulty logic Jesus is a sinner because she was born from a sinful mother, Again, your reasoning is faulty, erroneous and heretical. LOL !

      • Margarita Pierce

        Whether it was a personal sin or not? doesn’t matter Tacauma..the fact is that she did have sin in her life..God says so in His word..but you are refusing to see it my dear..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Sorry, but your argument contradicts the very idea of Jesus as “the Spotless Lamb”, you ignore the fact that Jesus shares His humanity (flesh / DNA) with His Mother Mary. To push that Mary committed sin or having inherited original sin means Jesus is also tainted with sin, this is the very contradiction of the basic belief of a Christian the professes that Jesus is Divine (2nd Person of the Trinity). This is the same argument of heretics to undermine the divinity of Christ. 1ST, You have to prove in this thread that the Flesh and Humanity of Jesus did not came out from the womb of your (sinful) Mary. You believe in the Virgin Birth, but you cannot comprehend of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception? Laughable, this is why you are a heretic and all other denominations. Again, you do not have any idea why the church defines doctrine / dogma especially the Holy Bible that the church gave the world in the 4th century. This is the reason why you have 40,000+ denominations and cannot be taken seriously.

      • Margarita Pierce

        No sorry, I am not contradicting that Jesus is a spotless Lamb..you are just not understand..do you even have anything at all right? come on now..it does not matter if or that Mary had sin in her life..get it thru your head..that we all receive our sin from our biological fathers..Jesus did not have an earthly father..and I am not the one saying that we get our sin from our fathers..God is the one that says it..

        Romans 5:12King James Version (KJV)

        12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

      • Margarita Pierce

        There it is Tacauma..do you not see where God is telling us that sin entered thru one man? He is talking about Adam..so it does not matter how sinful Mary might have been..the fact is still that Jesus would never have receive any sin nature from her..it would have had to passed from an earthly father, and God made sure that Jesus had none..

      • Tacauma Smith

        Then that is where the Immaculate Conception comes in ! Because to make sure Jesus is not tainted with sin, then Mary should be immaculately conceived, because the womb is still part of her body.

      • Tacauma Smith

        Yes, it matters (Immaculate Conception), the reason why the church defined it is because of the arguments of heretics to attack Jesus, your same fallible argument. Just like declaring the Trinity, Nicene Creed, the Canon of Scriptures (Holy Bible) and the Assumption doctrines is to dispel all the heresies against it. This is the reason why the church define dogmas / doctrines to settle all the arguments and disputes. That is why when you see a debate with evangelicals and heretics / atheists, it is easy to debunk fundamentalist evangelical claims because all they can use is the bible, they do not have the authority of the church and Sacred Tradition. Again, you are not a Christian because everytime you post these argument against Mary, you attack the humanity and divinity of Christ thru the “All of us (Mary) have sinned” argument. Instead of posting mindless arguments, study first Church doctrine, history and the Canon of Scriptures, you are clueless in the issue of authority and church. Again, if you say that Mary committed sin, then Jesus is also a sinner because Jesus came from the womb of Mary. Everything you say now is a contradiction of what you believe in Jesus as the Son of God.

  • Graham Dennis

    Man has corrupted the word of a God for his own means,the only words from God anyone has to follow are the Ten Commandments,all the rest of scripture is mans interpretation and man trying to gain power over his fellow man

    • Margarita Pierce

      No Graham you are wrong about that all men have to do is follow the Ten Commandments..God only gave these Commandments to Moses, not for us to keep them, for He knew that there is not one of us that is able to keep them..but He did give them as a schoolmaster for all of us..In the OT..these Commandments made one aware that he could never keep them, and to look forward toward a Savior that would come and keep them..Galatians 3:24King James Version (KJV)

      24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith…..there is the verse that proves that He only gave the Ten Commandments to teach us that we needed a Savior…As I said…God knew that there is not one that would be able to keep them, except for him…..

    • Margarita Pierce

      It is not men corrupting the word of God..it is people like you that do not believe in God that corrupts it..and this is to Graham

  • Graham Dennis

    Why would anybody need to pay for there sins ever again after Jesus died on the cross to pay for All of The Human Race’s Sins? Jesus has Already saved us hasn’t He? That’s why he’s called our Saviour isn’t it? Christians bang on about Jesus Christ being our Saviour and paying for our sins all the time, why can’t we just say ” thanks Jesus ” and get on with our lives however we choose? Why do catholics have to say Hail Mary’s? It can’t be to atone for any sins committed because there us no debt,Jesus has already paid it for EVERYONE!!!!

    • Margarita Pierce

      Graham..you sure that you are not searching? you claim that you do not believe in any religion..but yet you are all over this web site..Jesus did die for all of the sins of the world…but He still tells us in John 1:9 to confess our sins to Him..this does in no way mean that if we don’t confess them that we are going to hell…but after that we are saved? “Yes” all will be in Heaven one day..but still God does have even more things for those that do try to live their lives within His will..He does tell us in Scriptures, that eyes have not seen or heart felt what God has for those that love Him..He didn’t say for those that believe, did He? to go to Heaven? all we have to do is believe in who He is and what He did..the thief on the cross proves that we don’t have to do anything at all…but still there are Rewards & Crowns..and not all saved are going to automatically receive these just cause they believed..Believing only entitles us to “Everlasting life” and that is it..This is why it is very important for us to confess our sins and to keep a short account with God..cause also in 1st Corin 3:11-15 we do see one there that evidently didn’t live his life as he should have..and God is telling us that this person is going to suffer loss..but that he himself will still be saved..so for those that do believe that we can lose our salvation? No we cannot lose it..for God is showing us here that we do not lose it..but He also is not telling us what is it that we are going to lose.. Also in Ephesians 4:30 God does tell us not to grieve the Holy Spirit which is sealed in us unto the day of Redemption..so if it is sealed in us..there is no way that anyone can lose their salvation..cause if we did? how can the Holy Spirit be inside someone that is lost? there is no way..

    • Margarita Pierce

      We don’t pray for our sins Graham..He tells us to confess them…He also says for us not to Grieve the Holy Spirit..How do you think that we do Grieve the Holy Spirit? I am sure that everytime we sin, the Holy Spirit Grieves….so this is why we have to try not to sin…are we going to be to where we don’t sin at all? “NOPE” never..the closer we do get to God? and the more that we do stay in His Word? we will began to sin less, but never will we be sinless in this life..and that is cause we all do have this sin nature within us….The Holy Spirit is sealed in us…and it is sealed until the day of Redemption, so it cannot get out, and when we sin? it Grieves..

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